titewad powder for .45acp?


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kellyj00
June 29, 2007, 09:41 PM
I just bought 2 lbs of Hodgdon titewad powder.... without thinking. I figured it was ok for .45acp handloads, but I'm reading on the Hodgdon website how it's only for shotguns.... 12 ga only to be exact.

Can I use this stuff for 45 acp, or is July 4th going to be very interesting this year?

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BAT1
June 30, 2007, 01:54 AM
Is the powder for .45 acp. If you haven't opened them, try to exchange it. Or it will be a good year for the Shotgun.I used some this week in my Champ, at 4.8 gr/ 185 gr Berry's,and it did well. Unique is for S/G and .45, and burns slower, not so much rise.

kellyj00
June 30, 2007, 10:58 AM
what's so different about titewad powder that a fella can't burn it in a 45acp, like can be done with Clays?

Walkalong
June 30, 2007, 11:27 AM
It should work. I don't know how well. If they will let you exchange it for Tightgroup, (or Clays, or Universal Clays ) I would. :)

trueblue1776
June 30, 2007, 11:34 AM
What I would do:
Compare 12g tightgroup loads with 12g clays loads, use a proportionate load in the .45 case, minus 15-20% and look for pressure signs, work up from there.

kellyj00
July 2, 2007, 09:36 AM
well, a lot of places say use 4 gr of Clays. Titewad is a bit more potent than Clays is, so what if I start at say 3gr?

I'm thinking underloading a .45 acp round could (at the very most) get a bullet lodged in the barrel, in which case I've got a dowel rod. ;)

I feel kinda dumb for buying 2 lbs of titewad... (it was $11.50 a lb) so I went back the next day and bought 3 lbs of titegroup for $13.50 ea and a lb of Alliant Red Dot for $10.50. You can see why I made the mistake, the shop was going out of business and selling everything for cost. I checked in my Midway catalog and it looks like it was a pretty good deal.

Walkalong
July 2, 2007, 10:54 AM
Infantrymen can shoot 500 yards without a scope, can you?

Without a scope, no big deal. Now, if they could shoot 500 yards without a rifle, I would be impressed. :D
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Now, back to the thread. That was too good a deal to pass up. All the powders you bought will work in the .45 ACP.

700X and Red Dot etc. are shotgun powders and are used for pistol all the time. No reason Tightwad won't work as well. I would figure out where Tightwad fell in burn rate between other Hodgdon powders ( their website will help there ) and then check data from those powders they give .45 data on and interpolate from there. If you are not comfortable with that I would wait for someone who has used Tightwad for .45 to help you out.

Jim Watson
July 2, 2007, 11:39 AM
A quick look at some shotshell loads shows Titewad to be faster burning than Clays, which is saying a lot.

I think you have a reasonable approach. Three grains of TW is not going to stick a bullet and probably won't blow up your gun. I would use lead bullets, cast or moly coated because they will get out the barrel a bit easier. Use no more TW than necessary to function the gun. Don't load but a few of any given charge so you have fewer bullets to pull when you get to that point.

I burned up some of the obsolete Winchester AA Plus powder that way. I didn't like it as well in shotshells as 700X so I developed pistol loads for it. I loaded most of it in .38 Special to be shot in .357 Magnum guns for the maximum safety margin. But I did get some workable .45 loads.

kellyj00
July 2, 2007, 11:53 AM
it would be funny if 3 grains of titewad turns out to be a very accurate load...then it would really be for titewad's. At 3 gr, you could make 2,300 bullets per pound of powder....at 11.50/lb, that's makes me think woohoo.

If it doesn't work out, I may just have to buy some buckshot and load up some 12 gauge.

fadlan12
July 2, 2007, 12:08 PM
I would not try and make it work, I bought some 296 powder (friend was there and said "oh yes thats perfect for .45) and it turned out it was for .44 mag loads :fire: (slow burning) I spoke with speer folks and recommended NOT using it because of possibly unsafe pressures. Just exchange or trade a freind. IMO: not worth destroying your gun or hand.

kellyj00
July 2, 2007, 12:31 PM
well, this stuff is actually faster burning than most other powders. I'm 100% certain it's not going to be used in any caliber smaller than a .45 because of the chamber pressures, but I'm having a hard time accepting that a powder with load data for a shotgun won't work in a pistol.

To make sure, I think I'm going to call Hodgdon anyhow.
Edit: after call to Hodgdon Cust Service
"I'm having trouble finding reload data for pistol cartidges using Titewad powder on your website"
"Because there aren't any."
"I've heard of a few fellas loading that powder in pistols."
"They're taking their lives in their hands, that powder is not engineered for pistols."

Hmm....maybe I need to find an engineer and ask them why that is. I can understand a slower burning powder causing unsafe chamber pressure, but a hotter powder in a 5" barrel?

JDGray
July 2, 2007, 12:50 PM
Slower powders create less chamber pressure, and you end up shooting your slow powder out with the bullet, making nice fireballs.:D

trueblue1776
July 2, 2007, 12:51 PM
"They're taking their lives in their hands, that powder is not engineered for pistols."

That's stupid, so shotgun powders were invented for shotguns? :scrutiny: DUHHHHH. The just coincidently all make excellent pistol powder too.

I say it will work.

Walkalong
July 2, 2007, 01:17 PM
I would bet Tightwad is not faster than N310 and it is used in the .45 all the time, BUT, it peaks quickly. You have to work up SLOW and when it goes over the top it really goes. It doesn't take much of an increase with real fast powders. :)

kellyj00
July 2, 2007, 01:27 PM
http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html
walkalong is Right!

Now, I'm starting to get a little frustrated. Since bullseye is #6 fastest, and N310 is #2 fastest, and my Titewad is #3, couldn't I just kinda guess that the charge weight be somewhere between those two?

Without any warrantee or obligation, what would you more experienced pistol loaders say about Titewad? Should I give it a try and maybe find a good way to use up my powder? If so, what charge weight for my 230 gr Lead slugs?

trueblue1776
July 2, 2007, 03:16 PM
1.0oz lead in Win AA 2-3/4 12ga WAA12SL wad Titewad powder:
16.4gr-7,300psi--1125fps
17.4gr-7,700psi--1180fps
18.4gr-9,600psi--1235fps
20.1gr-10,600psi-1290fps

1.0oz lead in Win AA 2-3/4 12ga WAA12SL wad Clays powder:
15.4gr-8,500psi--1125fps
16.9gr-9,000psi--1180fps
18.4gr-10,900psi-1235fps


By these loads you should be fine using light data for clays and working up. Clays obviously is a more violent powder so I wouldn't worry much. I would start around 3.2-3.3 gr which will probably give you near 600fps for 230grn lead. This is what I would not be scared to do.

Oh yeah, use a strong gun and watch for cartridge pressure signs, just to be safe. (had to say that)

PO2Hammer
July 2, 2007, 03:30 PM
You've got Tightgroup, use that, it's an excellent powder. It's worked very well in several pistol calibers for me including .45acp and .38 Super.

3 pounds of Tightgroup will go a looooong way in .45acp.

trueblue1776
July 2, 2007, 03:43 PM
PO, he's got titewad.

kellyj00
July 2, 2007, 04:58 PM
The powder in question is TITEWAD...which I've got 2 lbs of. Doh!
I've also got 3 lbs of Titegroup and 1 lb of Alliant Red Dot.... those I can easily find 45 acp load data for.

I bought the titewad because I"m a new reloader and got confused. I knew that titegroup was the cheapest option, so I was thinking "tightwad" because it's cheap... i know...bonehead. Anyhow, the place was shutting down and I've shopped there for the past 6-7 years (since he opened) and I figured anything I can do to help the guy out couldn't hurt.

Thanks for the advice gents. I'm going to load up some 230 gr LRN on 3 grains of titewad and let you know in the next few days how it went. If you don't hear from me, then you can assume that the Hodgdon fella was right... "it's not engineered for that, you're taking your life in your hands by loading pistols with it." I'm pretty confident that I'm going to live to reload until my hands are too arthritic for the task. *takes drag off cigarette* *swigs cheap whiskey*

Jim Watson
July 2, 2007, 09:54 PM
I bought the titewad because I"m a new reloader and got confused.

Books are cheap insurance. Factory brochures like Hodgdon's are free.

Storekeepers don't always know their merchandise and some will sell you what they have instead of what you need.

the pistolero
July 2, 2007, 10:05 PM
Yep, it always pays to do research on the cartridges you load before you go buy components. Loading a pistol cartridge with a rifle powder, for example, could lead to baaad things. I suppose the risks could be mitigated by looking at the burn charts before you load as well, but just the same I wouldn't want to load a cartridge with powder for which there was no data for that cartridge. Good luck...

JDGray
July 3, 2007, 07:11 AM
Hodgdon says not to try it, thats all I need to know. If they could market another 45 powder they certainly would, it must not work well. Good luck if you try, let us know your results.:)

philbo
July 3, 2007, 10:30 AM
Hodgdon says not to try it, thats all I need to know.

+1. Why take a chance on damaging a pistol when it's not necessary? :scrutiny:
Can it be done? Sure, but some other reloader would swap for it I'm sure.

kellyj00
July 3, 2007, 12:18 PM
posted on KSCCW.com....the gun site for Kansans... (can't ship this stuff, doh!) Nobody has wanted it yet...it's been a few days.

So, I'm thinking why not? I imagine that it only takes like 3 grains of this titewad stuff to make a 1911 function....and if it hurts my barrel then I've got a reason to buy the match grade that I've had my eye on for a while.

I'm left handed, but shoot right handed...so if I blow my hand off at least I can still sign my name. Also, I went ahead and put out a gazillion dollar life insurance policy out on myself, so my wife will end up way ahead if things do go south. Hope you enjoyed that joke as much as I did.

kellyj00
July 9, 2007, 11:02 AM
went ahead and loaded up 5 ea of
2.0 grain titewad, 230 gr Lead TCBB
2.5 grain titewad, 230 gr Lead TCBB
3.0 grain titewad, 230 gr Lead TCBB

very very light recoil, good enough velocity that it was accurate to 25 yards, didn't try any longer than that. Had as much velocity as the 4.3 grain Red Dot/ 230 grain Lead TCBB that I loaded about 350 of. ;-)

Thanks for the advice gents.

JDGray
July 9, 2007, 11:18 AM
What was the velocity? Any pressure signs, flater than normal primers?

kellyj00
July 13, 2007, 02:51 PM
not sure of velocity. no signs of extra pressure, primers were fine.
I'm gonna load up a few hundred with 2.5 grains this weekend and I'll let you know how it works out.

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