Q3269 Winchester 62g 223 green tip ammo


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Lone_Gunman
July 4, 2007, 07:51 AM
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What exactly is the steel penetrator designed to penetrate? Body armor? Physical barriers like car doors, walls, etc?

Is $349 a good price for 1000 rounds of Winchester Q3269 62g 223 green tip penetrator? Is this a military over run?

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ny32182
July 4, 2007, 09:07 AM
The penetrator was designed to give it better penetration on "hard" targets at ranges past what M193 or x51 ball was supposed to do. I believe the specific requirement for the load was that it penetrate both sides of a standard military helmet at ~600 yards or so.

Sounds like a good price especially these days, is that a source that the rest of us could get to? If so, where? Thanks..

jagdpanzer347
July 4, 2007, 09:51 AM
Sadly, that is a more or less fair price in today's market. I never thought I would see the day it was cheaper to shoot my Garand than my AR.

-jagd

HorseSoldier
July 4, 2007, 10:20 AM
I think ny32182 is correct -- the original penetration criteria was against a standard (at the time) steel helmet. SS109 predates (if I'm not mistaken) NATO's adoption of the CRISAT body armor standard that has driven things like the development of FN's 5.7mm round and the like.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 4, 2007, 11:19 AM
What everyone else said. This was designed to insure that the 5.56 could penetrate the old M1 steel pot at 600yds (something even .308 had trouble with). The penetrator really doesn't add much in the way of peneration and most ranges consider it the same as ball ammo.

It does make the round construction more complex and cause more variation from lot to lot of ammo though. The price you have sounds right on par with what I have been seeing for that type of ammo.

jaholder1971
July 4, 2007, 11:37 AM
What's the accuracy of the Winchester M855 now? I tested a batch of WCC 93 stuff years ago and it was horrible, about 4.5" at 100 yards.

Bad QC is what caused Olin to lose it's multiyear contract to operate Lake City AAP and LCAAP was taken over by Alliant Techsystems.

Bottom Gun
July 4, 2007, 08:22 PM
Winchester M855 works OK for me. I shot this 5 rd group with it at 105 yd with my 16" Bushmaster.
The twist rate is 1/9.

FuzzyBunny
July 4, 2007, 08:53 PM
How would this perform in a 1 in 12 twist in my HK93?
Will it make it more likely to tumble in up close encounters?
When I run out of m855 other than loss of accuracy how will the heavy bullet perform in the HK?

I have a nice amount but my other .223 is a fast twist mini14. The mini shoots minute of barn with all rounds and loads as it is.

FuzzyBunny

Bartholomew Roberts
July 4, 2007, 10:06 PM
The accuracy spec for this ammo is 4MOA at 300yds; but it usually does better (more like 3MOA at 100yds for a 10rd group - which will yield some very nice 3rd groups on occasion).

How would this perform in a 1 in 12 twist in my HK93?

It is too long to be stabilized by a 1:12 twist. It will keyhole before 100yds.

ny32182
July 5, 2007, 08:27 AM
Just to clarify, wouldn't 3MOA at 100yd be worse than 4MOA at 300? Wouldn't 4MOA at 300yd translate roughly to a 1.33" group at 100yd?

benEzra
July 5, 2007, 10:21 AM
Just to clarify, wouldn't 3MOA at 100yd be worse than 4MOA at 300? Wouldn't 4MOA at 300yd translate roughly to a 1.33" group at 100yd?
4 MOA at 300 yards translates to just over 12" groups at 300. 1.33" at 100 yd would be around 1.3 MOA rather than 4.

MOA is an angle measurement rather than a length measurement, so the length of a MOA increases linearly with distance.

(MOA = Minute Of Angle, i.e. an arcminute or 1/60 of a degree.)

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