Ban Proof Rifle?


PDA






bg226
July 4, 2007, 11:12 AM
In this ANTI state (IL) a ban is likely in the future. I really do not like the idea of buying a rifle and then having it become illegal at a later date.

I'm interested in those Remington pump rifles that take AR-15 mags (awesome idea in my opinion).

Should the ban take effect, would this rifle pass (I doubt the mags would be legal though)?

If you enjoyed reading about "Ban Proof Rifle?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Frog48
July 4, 2007, 11:19 AM
Should the ban take effect, would this rifle pass

Depends on the language of the legislation. Theres no way we can forecast what ideas will pop into the head of some crazy politician.

DMK
July 4, 2007, 11:23 AM
No firearm is ban proof. Never underestimate that fact.

However, for now semi-autos do seem to be the primary target. You may get lucky and your mags could be grandfathered, or you may have to sell them out of state. AR mags are cheap though. It might be worth the risk to stock up a couple dozen and save all your receipts as proof.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 4, 2007, 12:16 PM
I wouldn't count on finding a ban-proof rifle. Australia banned both semi-autos and pumps at the same time to use just one example. Besides, lets look at the categories of firearms that the antis want to subject to "reasonable safety regulation"

No large caliber handguns like the S&W .500 - those are too powerful
No small caliber handguns - those are too concealable
No well-made handguns that are small - those are "Pocket Rockets"
No "junk guns" that are inexpensive - those are too cheap and they are dangerous as well - though we will make an exception for police officers to carry them since it is an inherently unsafe gun design :rolleyes:
No accurate long range rifles - those are "sniper rifles"
No semi-automatic rifles - those are "assault weapons"
No shotguns - those are "street sweepers" of incredible destructive power
Nothing based on a military design - those are clearly military weapons designed to kill people

Just going on the list of things that they already want to ban, I don't see too many firearms that are going to survive that list. If you figure that they have probably not been completely honest about the extent of their desire to limit firearms usage, then that pretty much takes care of the remainder.

GTSteve03
July 4, 2007, 12:18 PM
Buy whatever you want now.

Just remember "tragic boating accident." :evil:

sacp81170a
July 4, 2007, 12:19 PM
Let's see, they're already talking about banning long, pointy kitchen knives in Great Britain, so...

I don't think even BB guns and air guns are ban-proof. :barf:

SigfanUSAF
July 4, 2007, 12:25 PM
I'd vote to buy an original trapdoor Springfield carbine.

Antique according to the BATF, quick loading, with a powerful .45-70 cartridge. Not imported, not "hi-cap" by any means. Short barrel means it's not a "sniper", yet long enough to be "not easily concealed"

The day they made that one illegal to own would be the day I'm ready to die to keep it.

Kentucky
July 4, 2007, 12:36 PM
Instead of looking for a way to submit to MORE un-Constitutional government interference, why not instead focus on working to reverse the situation up there? FIGHT FOR YOUR LIBERTY!

Today is July 4, we are celebrating the Freedom that our brave forefathers gave us. Unfortunately we have let much of that freedom be eroded, and we truly dont deserve what we have left. Instead of finding ways to submit to our "governmental masters", lets uphold our American Heritage and Tradition by fighting for our rights!

Look at what the Second Amendment Patriots have done in Indiana. Overturned restrictive and un-Constitutional laws, passed lifetime concealed carry, and working on much more.

Folks, there are plenty enough gun owners in any state to do the job. You dont need a majority, or anywhere close to it. 15% of a countrys population can have a successful revolution. We only want to re-take control of the government through peaceful means, a small motivated percentage of the population can do this!

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

Durruti
July 4, 2007, 01:19 PM
OK folks, of course there's no such thing as ban-proof, but there is ban-resistant. And how does looking for a ban-resistant gun preclude one from fighting for your rights? Can't you do both?

It seems unlikely that they would ban certain types of mags, just certain capacities. Does Illinois already have a capacity limit on rifle mags?

All in all, it sounds like a decent plan. They could ban pumps along with semis ala Australia, but they're certainly less likely to do so.

miko
July 4, 2007, 02:26 PM
In this ANTI state (IL) a ban is likely in the future. I really do not like the idea of buying a rifle and then having it become illegal at a later date.

I'm interested in those Remington pump rifles that take AR-15 mags
Consider also a lever-action Marlin 1895 in 357 mag or 44 mag, which also shoot 38 sp and 44 sp.
For country, consider a lever-action Marlin in 30-30.
Very un-evil guns - also very capable ones.

NYC currently allows mags of 5rd capacity - no grandfathering. Imagine your state follows the suite? :eek:
I can have 9+1 rounds of .357 (or 10+1 of 38 +P+) in my Marlin, which I can top-off one by one. I would rather have that than a bunch of 5-rd mags.


I don't think even BB guns and air guns are ban-proof.
BBs, paintballs and slingshots are illegal in NYC.



Instead of looking for a way to submit to MORE un-Constitutional government interference, why not instead focus on working to reverse the situation up there? FIGHT FOR YOUR LIBERTY!

Folks, there are plenty enough gun owners in any state to do the job. You dont need a majority, or anywhere close to it...
Liberty is not compatible with democracy - as the Founding Father well knew.

miko

R.W.Dale
July 4, 2007, 02:31 PM
I'm interested in those Remington pump rifles that take AR-15 mags (awesome idea in my opinion).

I think a picture is in order.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/REM%207615/HPIM1320.jpg

rudolf
July 4, 2007, 03:21 PM
The most ban proof rifle is the most common hunting rifle in your area.
The double barrel shotgun is probably the most hard to ban worldwide.

MOSINS
July 4, 2007, 03:43 PM
Single shot bolt rifle, pump shotguns.

:)

Quiet
July 4, 2007, 03:49 PM
Ban Proof Rifle?
Any single shot rimfire rifle.

kcmarine
July 4, 2007, 03:50 PM
Single- shot falling- block action rifles.

But instead of talking about how to ban proof a rifle, let's put everything we've got into stopping bans from being passed and reversing the liberty- restricting measures already in place.

By any means necessary.

Geno
July 4, 2007, 04:04 PM
To Hades and back with any anarchist politician would illegitimate our great Constitution! Sharpen your pencil and take notes on the fools who participate in our Constitutional destruction. Document facts versus hype. Call your family, your friends, etc. Educate them! Encourage them to vote against these fools. Guns go first; all other rights and even liberties will follow. Most important, vote!

Prince Yamato
July 4, 2007, 04:07 PM
They wouldn't be allowed to confiscate your rifle. This is a thing of general myth. There could never LEGALLY be a confiscation of anything, firearm or otherwise w/o a grandfather clause. The legal term is ex post facto or "after the fact" or "after it's done". In short, it means that if you bought something when it was legal, if it suddenly becomes "illegal" to own one, you can still keep yours. Usually, there is a registration period w/ state or local authorities.

This is how there are (reportedly) Class 3 owners in New York State (no, I don't have evidence of this). They owned whatever before NYS banned them, blah blah, ex post facto, they get to keep whatever. Now, I don't think they can actually shoot their weapons anywhere, but they can OWN them.

A similar case would be if you owned say, a bag of vacuum sealed marijuana that you bought before the marijuana stamp/tax act was initiated and you had a receipt to prove it. You would be in legal possession of the marijuana and you could prove it. Now, whether you could use it is a different matter, but you could still brag, "hey, look at my vacuum sealed bag of legal marijuana...ex post facto!"

Durruti
July 4, 2007, 05:33 PM
That's not what ex post facto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto) means. Ex post facto means they can't pass a law now saying it was illegal to do something previously, before the law was passed. They can't say it was illegal to have owned an AR-15 in 2005, but they can pass a law saying you can't continue owning an AR-15 (ex post facto-wise). Gun bans typically include grandfather clauses in order to make them more palatable, but they don't have to be included.

Alphazulu6
July 4, 2007, 05:41 PM
Can the Liberal's ban your Red Rider BB Gun? Yep.. you'll shoot your eye out! :D

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:GNkTHZzZWlrORM:http://www.daisy.com/shopping/image.php%3Fproductid%3D16141

MOSINS
July 4, 2007, 05:50 PM
Yep, they'll ban it, for the children...

:D

miko
July 4, 2007, 05:51 PM
This is a thing of general myth. There could never LEGALLY be a confiscation of anything, firearm or otherwise w/o a grandfather clause.
Of course not. They will offer you a chance to "demilitarise" it or sell it away or maybe pay you a fair market value in crisp "federal" "reserve" "notes" like they did when they confiscated gold in 1933. Gold, you know - the only thing besides silver that the Constitution allows the States to recognize as legal tender.

miko

Cosmoline
July 4, 2007, 05:53 PM
Why would anyone want to ban a proof rifle?

DoubleTapDrew
July 4, 2007, 06:05 PM
The 2A didn't specify what types of firearms the gov't can't regulate for a reason. Get what you want. The more "evil" rifles that are out there, the harder of a time they'll have if they ever try to take them away.

illspirit
July 4, 2007, 06:44 PM
Miss Rebecca Peters from IANSA once said hunters only "need" a rifle with a range of one hundred feet, and that anything more should be banned. As such, if you want a ban proof rifle, you'll probably be limited to one of these (http://www.backyardartillery.com/rbguns/). :uhoh:

Deaf Smith
July 4, 2007, 06:58 PM
Their ain't no ban proof rifle unless SCOTUS this summer declares the 2nd Amendment is an individual right.

Antis hate:

1. Guns (any gun) that holds more than x rounds
2. Simi-auto military look-alike rifles cause they look bad.
3. Scoped rifes cause they are 'sniper rifles'.
4. Short barreled handuns cause they can be hid
5. Long barreled handguns cause they are powerful.
6. Shot guns cause they are so destructive at close range.
7. ... well that is about all the guns made! So they hat them all and thus there is no 'safe' gun to have.

Your only way to keep them safe is to VOTE. And pray SCOTUS rules in our favor.

Prince Yamato
July 4, 2007, 07:29 PM
In all likelihood, a BAN won't be able to get any stricter than the former AWB. Any less strict is pointless, any more strict you start "infringin' on the hun'ers". I think the SKS is like the fulcrum on the ban teeter-tauter. It's a military rifle with a bayonet and grenade launcher, yet it has no pistol grip and a fixed magazine.

Everything is subject to the whims of the law, but I think buying something PC is giving in to defeat. I say buy a Saiga 12 and a wraithmaker drum.

Green Lantern
July 4, 2007, 07:34 PM
My first thought on seeing title?

"NO SUCH BEAST."

:(

FourNineFoxtrot
July 4, 2007, 07:52 PM
This thread is the first I've heard of this Remington pump rifle that takes AR-15 mags. After a little bit of research, I can say I'm VERY interested. I was wondering, though, does anybody know if these are currently CA legal? Certainly anything semi-auto in .223 is currently limited to a 10-rd. internal mag. I've found a couple of online mentions, but they're all at least a few years old.

I'd be disappointed but not surprised if this gun were illegal... this is basically my last chance to get a weapon of this kind of functionality, without being crippled by internal mags, legally in this state.

Geronimo45
July 4, 2007, 07:56 PM
Musn't be semi-automatic, or black. No pistol grip, bayonet lug (you know all those gangstas are doing drive-by bayonettings), flash hider, either.
Not in a 'military caliber'. Preferably, not a repeater. If it is a repeater, a non-detachable magazine.

22LongRifle
July 4, 2007, 11:47 PM
Trying to answer the question that was stated.....................

I'm thinking anything NOT semiauto in IL. The law that was drafted and made it to one of the houses added ALOT more weapon, by name, and just about every military inclined semi was on their. Including Ruger's Mini 14 and the SKS and Saiga.

The Remington pump in question would be a go choice. Just hide.stach the larger cap mags and get some ten and five rounds for show and range work.

Jerry

Navy joe
July 5, 2007, 01:59 AM
There is no ban proof rifle. That said I own 4 K-31s just in case ARs and M-14s go out of style. A reloading set-up is essential to being "ban-proof" as well since regulation of ammo might prove easier than regulating guns. I intend to buy several charcoal burning rifles as well.

borrowedtime69
July 5, 2007, 02:14 AM
best you can hope for is a ban resistant rifle would be a .22 or 30-30 NEF or H&R break action single shot.

it would be nice to have this gun on hand to go innocently hunting/shooting to keep a low profile. i would however keep some serious guns as a last resort. i sold a gun or two that i thought i would get stuck with having to turn into the government after Klinton did the AWB. this time, im older, wiser, and have thought it through. good luck - Eric

gopguy
July 5, 2007, 03:27 PM
No such thing as a ban proof rifle. I can remember 20 years ago when I lived in Washington DC there was an article I was reading where the author was talking about the need to ban all guns, including antique weapons of the Revolutionary War "as deadly today as they were then" is the phrase that sticks out in my head. The hopolophobes are afraid of anything that goes bang. Eventually they will try to get them all. Right now they are trying to seperate the gunowners by just chipping at certain categories at a time. "Saturday night specials" thirty years ago, "Assault rifles" for the past twenty. Hunters who use rifles must be aware your hunting rifle is a dread sniper rifle. Eternal vigilance friends. We must stick together and defend all our gun rights. You folks in the anti gun states need to vote the bums out. That only happens if you get like minded friends and family to the polls.

Carl N. Brown
July 5, 2007, 04:49 PM
Someone mentioned "ban-proof" as single shot rim-fire rifles and
pump shotguns: pumps were banned in Australia, and displays
of weapons taken in crime in TX and TN often feature single shot
rim-fire rifles sawn-off to pistol size.

There is no ban-proof gun. Any ban makes the remaining guns
that much more susceptible to being banned next time around.

Semi-auto rifles and pump shotguns today.
Lever action rifles and double shotguns tomorrow.

Wedge
July 5, 2007, 04:50 PM
Get a .30-30 they would never try to ban something like that...oh yeah...nevermind.

No such thing as a ban proof rifle.

AJAX22
July 5, 2007, 06:41 PM
Make sure you have a lead casting setup, primers, powder and a reloading station. Here in CA they're going after ammo too.

just think, you only get 50 rounds per month, it can't be made of lead, you have to have a license to buy it (and you have to qualify for the license of course and show good cause to be issued it) and each bullet will have a unique identification number micro stamped into it so that it can be traced back to you. oh and certain types of bullets will not be allowed for sale in incorporated areas (city's over 200k people) powder and primers will be reclassified as an explosive, so they cannot be shipped without a permit. and it will be no longer legal to receive shipments of complete cartridges without a special license which will be almost unobtainable.

of course the police will be exempted from any and all requirements.

Welcome to California: Arbeit Macht Frie

cbsbyte
July 5, 2007, 06:49 PM
A muzzle loading BP rifle will probably be the most ban proof rifle. In the long run no firearms are ban proof, since they all would be banned if the antis had their way.

Anteater1717
July 6, 2007, 02:25 AM
1. Buy the Arís while you still can I live in ca and itís horrible that there basically illegal without a weird stock.

2. The Remington 7615 Police isnít a bad choice.


10 absolutely perfect
2 barely functions
1 Doesnít function

Accuracy 7/10
I have one accuracy was decent. I havenít gone for groups yet. With cheep wolf it was easy to get 4 ĹĒ clay pigeons at 100yd with standard irons prone. With brass cased decent ammo the thing could probably top out at 1Ē-1.5Ē groups.

Weight/Balance 9/10
6lbís is decent a little heavy for that style of rifle. It does have good balance though centers between both hands.

Barrel 8/10
Barrel was basically a bull barrel and heats up slowly (Using 16.5Ē).

Trigger 7/10
Trigger was light and smooth (Doesnít fell like a standard 870 trigger).

Ergonomics 9/10
Feelís like an 870

Action 9/10
It was considerably smoother than my 870ís. It was a little hard to work in prone.

Finish 7/10
Itís ok but seems a little thin for my liking (Easy fix). Not a cheep plastic gun like the Kel-tecís its all metal but the stock (nothngs realy wrong with Kel-tecís).

Magazine 10/10
The Magazine drops free when buttons pressed. Smooth and reliable. Takes AR magazines which is of course a big plus.

Reliability 10/10
It was perfectly reliable except for a few minor things that I caused.

Price 10/10
Decent
$559.00 before stuff
$625.00 out the door


Miscellaneous
The forward swivel stud moves back with the slide. You canít carry it using the sling with the action back. This just bothers me for some reason.


Final 86/100
86%

Better than its main competition the Mini 14 in nearly every way. Over all a good buy and I am very happy with it.

It could get lumped in with other semi-autoís because Itís evil looking.
Not ban proof by any means but no gun is. It will go after semi-autoís but before lever actions.

Buy the Remington 7615

P.S.
Buy the police versions the civilian ones are overpriced



Link
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_7615.asp

mdao
July 6, 2007, 02:41 AM
My guess would be a bespoke .410 bore OU shotgun is the ultimate in banproof guns.

Not a military caliber, not a semi-auto, not concealable, can't penetrate body armor, low capacity, short range, low accuracy, low power, and so absurdly expensive that commoners can't even dream of affording one. Plus you'd have a lot of very rich angry guys to lobby for a "sporting" exemption when everything else is banned.

Yep, can't get more ban proof than that.

Don't Tread On Me
July 6, 2007, 04:39 AM
Sorry, but ANYTHING that launches a projectile can be banned. That means chemically propelled (firearms), air rifles/pistols, archery, slingshots etc...

In fact, not only can it be banned, but it is targeted to be banned (eventually). Look at England and Australia. Didn't down under even have a sword ban?


There's no limit to the anti-gunner's thirst. I'm waiting for them to ban fists next. They are stuck in the mindset that they can legislate crime away by banning the means, not the cause. They fail to understand that there exists an unlimited and infinite number of means. They are the least of our worries though. They at least want to ban because they foolishly believe it will make the world better. We can at least call that ignorance. The real bad guys are those who do not care about the world or making it better, but seek to ban to increase the power and authority of the state or themselves. That's not ignorance. That is malicious premeditated intent.


So the question is not what is ban proof, but rather what would be the last to be banned. I'd say single-shot shotguns, break actions in particular. Those would be last to go.

General Geoff
July 6, 2007, 05:00 AM
The only ban-proof rifle is the one in the hands of law enforcement.

Dr. Dickie
July 6, 2007, 08:30 AM
Just remember, the ban is never based on logic, reasoning, or facts, so anything is fair game.

As for me: Rifles? What rifles? :rolleyes:

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

dawgtraxx
July 6, 2007, 10:10 PM
warming up the boat...dang .forgot the plug :)

LoadedDrum
July 6, 2007, 10:29 PM
SU16A or B and M1A seemed to survive ************ so start there.

kcmarine
July 6, 2007, 10:59 PM
The ban-proof rifle is the one you refuse to turn in.

degen118
July 6, 2007, 11:20 PM
Buy yourself the rifle you want ftf from a stranger. Take it home and keep quiet about it. Thats the way most folks handle the problem. Good Luck.

funfaler
July 8, 2007, 12:29 AM
Sticks!!??

Have they been banned yet?

If you are concerned about buying a "ban proof" rifle, you will never own a rifle. Besides, a "sheep" can pull a trigger anyways.

Samuraigg
July 8, 2007, 01:04 AM
Why worry about a ban proof rifle? Do what I'm doing... buy them while you still can.

I live in Illinois and have recently purchased a Saiga 7.62 and plan on buying an AR 15 very soon. I'm counting on a grandfather clause if an AWB ever passes (heck, even the proposed high cap magazine ban bill has a grandfather clause).

If you enjoyed reading about "Ban Proof Rifle?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!