[WonderNine]

Here's a link to the original thread so that they are forever joined in unholy matrimony: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28232

I tried shooting several with several different grips on the Hi-Power and either wrapping my finger completely around the trigger or just using the tip of my finger (all advice from this and other boards). Same results as usual.

I want to say that I believe the Beretta 92's and Browning Hi-Power's trigger pull is practically identical. You really cannot tell which one is harder to pull. The Beretta trigger is definately more "slappy" though and takes some getting used to after firing the HP.

The guns:

1994 Italian Beretta 92FS Inox

http://bis.midco.net/cotlod/beretta92.jpg

1994 Browning Hi-Power Silver Chromed

http://bis.midco.net/cotlod/browningp35.jpg

Well, made it out to the gun range last night and here are the results:

Me shooting Hi-Power @ 28 yards (measured distance with yardstick):

http://bis.midco.net/cotlod/thurstarget1.jpg

Me shooting Beretta 92 @ 28 yards:

http://bis.midco.net/cotlod/thurstarget2.jpg

My father shooting Browning Hi-Power @ 28 yards:

http://bis.midco.net/cotlod/thurstarget3.jpg

My father shooting Beretta 92 @ 28 yards:

http://bis.midco.net/cotlod/thurstarget4.jpg

Me shooting Hi-Power @ 10 yards (I put about two 17 round clips into this one after I patched it from the .22's:

http://bis.midco.net/cotlod/thurstarget5.jpg

[WonderNine]

Here's a pic of the Browning's sights, perfectly centered. As shown though, I'm shooting left with the Hi-Power.

http://bis.midco.net/cotlod/browningsights.jpg

The Beretta's fixed sights are also centered perfect.

[Old Fuff]

It is quite possible that while the sights are centered on the slide the barrel inside is not concentric with the slide's centerline. In other words the sights are pointing straight, but the barrel is pointing at a slight angle (probably at the muzzle end). The reason the rear sight is mounted in a dovetail is so you can move it too correct for this. Or if the pistol has adjustable sights the answer is obvious. I suggest that if you are determined to keep the sights centered no matter what you'd probably be better off to trade or sell the Browning and get something else you'd like better.

[WonderNine]

Thanks for the advice. It just frustrates me after I've gone and put all the work in the gun and I really like how it shoots (but not where the bullets hit).

Aaaaargh!

Truth be told, I'm don't see how it's possible that the muzzle end of the barrel is at a slight angle when there is no room for side to side barrel play with a Hi-Power. And I checked out the the barrel lug end once more when I cleaned it this morning and everything looks straight and the whole barrel looks straight with the frame.

This has to be the weirdest thing I've ever seen in a gun.

Could it possibly be that the barrel is bad? I don't mean bad as in shot out because the bore is perfect and shiny and it hasn't had near enough through it, but I mean maybe the rifling was done wrong and it just needs a replacement barrel? Maybe bad rifling is throwing all the bullets left?

[Andrew Wyatt]

Adjusting the sights is the simplest fix for this.


you don't need to replace the barrel.

[WonderNine]

Obviously, I'm not interested in the "simplest" fix :p

[Gerald McDonald]

Its probably not all that unusual to have the slide bored slightly off center. Its your gamble as to whether to replace the barrel, changing the barrel will more than likely change point of impact, but it could also move it even farther to the left. Have a barrel custom fit and your looking at adding $150-200 to the money you have already spent. You can send it back to Browning but they will probably say its within spec as it can be regulated to point of aim/point of impact. I have had several that were (Ruger security six currenty) adjusted nearly all the way to one side or the other. Not a lot of optons, trade/sell or send it to a smith, your choice.

[jacketch]

How did you measure that the sights were centered?

The amount off center that the pistol is hitting is small enough that the sight may be out of alignment only the smallest amount. This can be calculated, I think I have seen this info on this forum before. Your HighPower may not be "defective". It may just need tuned.

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. The barrel's not bad or the groups would not be so good. Having a fixed sight pistol that doesn't hit exactly POA is very common with either vertical or horizontal adjustments (sometimes both) being necessary. On a couple of my Hi Powers, it was necessary to drift the rear sight a tiny bit to the left or right. On your pistol, moving the rear sight to the right is the fix and you'll be surprised at how little it actually takes. At 28 yards, I'm guessing that probably about 0.01 or 0.02". It won't be much at all.

Best and good luck.

[Bren]

How many guns have you owned?

lots of guns I've owned didn't shoot perfectly straight with the sights perfectly centered. Theres nothing wrong with that gun and you can see how close it is at 10 yards. :rolleyes: FN/Browning would tell you the same. Bren

[BryanP]

It's obvious you have a horribly defective Hi Power. And I, being the wonderful man that I am, will selflessly take it off your hands before someone is horribly injured by this defective piece of junk. I won't even charge you for the service I am providing, just ship it to me. :evil:

[jacketch]

I looked it up and the info I have says that moving the rear sight 0.020" changes the point of impact by approximately 3" at 25 yds. This is with a 4" barrel. One tiny tap on the side of the sight (with a brass rod) could move it that far. Or use a sight vise.

[Andrew Wyatt]

Obviously, I'm not interested in the "simplest" fix

The only other thing that would affect the slide/barrel/sight relationship is a new slide. this is considerably more expsnsive and time consuming and will only "fix" the "problem" if you got one where everything is perfectly centered, which you won't.


Just adjust the sights. That's what they're there for.

[SRYnidan]

Did you have the gun chromed? If so the sights were removed to do the job as they are not silver. If when they were reinstalled they are off by as little as .010 each this would account for your problem. This assumes that it shot perfectly before the work.

I went back and read the original thread the gun shot left before the new sights were installed. Still the sight correction for 4" at 28Yrds is something like 0.025" about the thickness of a sigle edged razer blade. Fix it and move on and quit insulting people who are trying to help.

[SRYnidan]

(Flame Suit On)
I went back to the previous thread you posted and have read all of the posts from both threads. I have come to the realization that you are obsessive compulsive. A number of very knowledgeable people have told you that you need top adjust the sights. According to the sight adjustment equation this adjustment for twenty-eight yards would be about 0.025” hardly discernable with the naked eye, hardly making your sights appear “crooked”. You don’t like the answers that are being given, this would be OK if you had some experience or the good people who are trying to help didn’t know what they are talking about but they do. Not liking the truth does not make it any less true.

(Flame Suit Off)

[WonderNine]

You don't need to put your flame suit on to tell me something I have known from the beginning about the sights SRYnidan. THAT was never the question. The question was is it ME or is it the GUN. Having shot the groups with the Beretta I'm now completely convinced it is something with the gun. And I cannot determine what because everything looks perfect. The only thing I can come up with is that there's something wrong with the rifling twist that's throwing the bullets to the right if that's even possible.

I know if the sight was adjusted a little to the right, then it would be more centered. However my experience with the adjustable sights I had on before tells me that it would be MORE than just a little adjustment. I had the factory adjustables set all the way to the right. Certainly more than a razor's width. I don't have a brass punch or a sight tool, so I guess I'll have to pick one up. Either that or not mess with it anymore and sell it. At this point though I'm contemplating trading or selling for a different one.

You have to understand why this is driving me crazy wondering if it's me or the gun. Now that I think I've determined for sure that it's the gun, it's just a matter of what to do about it to make it right.

Btw, the gun came hard chromed from the factory, it is not something I did afterwards. I can see though how the chromed trigger may have thrown you off. I added that on myself and sold the gold trigger that it came with.

[jacketch]

Again, how did you measure that the sights are centered?

[WonderNine]

I'm gonna move the rear one just a hair to the right. But look at the peekchur.

[Serpico]

It could be you...I have a beretta, a P7 and a hi-power and while my groups are better with the P7 and hi-power, I tend to shoot to the left with the hi-power and I don't know why...maybe my sights are slightly off too..

[WonderNine]

Ya, it still may be, but I doubt it. I think I'm gonna sell it and try a different Hi-Power. Probably another Silver Chromed, but then the gunshop has got a nice Capitan at a nice price that I'm drooling over.....but it probably wouldn't be a good choice for carry being blue and all....and I'd always be worried about the finish.

Maybe I'm making a dumb mistake, but I've done dumber things. I guess in my quest for knowledge if I get another one that does the same I know it will be me and I'll just be that much smarter. :D

At any rate, if I get another I'll be sure to post another range report. :cool:

It's a shame though, this one has such a nice trigger now.

[boing]

Have you thought about burying it in the desert?

[WonderNine]

Have you thought about burying it in the desert?

If somebody digs it up in a thousand years, it will be worth alot more!:p

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Do what you've gotta do. Please do post a range report on the new HP and good luck.

Best.

[Destructo6]

Are you sure it's not the sights that are off-center? Was the notch cut precisely at the center or .020" to the right?

You'd need a granite table and some other bits or an optical comparator to be entirely certain. The Mk1Mod0 eyeball isn't so precise.

Are you sure it isn't a problem with your hold on that particular pistol? Have you considered buying/using a Ransom Rest to be certain?

I can't help but to get the feeling that you're pulling our chains here.

[WonderNine]

Another thing, shooting left handed produces the same results from what I remember, however that was a long time ago. Damn, shoulda done that again.

[Keith]

The solution is the same whether it's you or the gun - adjust the sights!

I could bore you with several examples of pistols that shot to one place in my hands, and to another in the hands of a friend. I'll spare you, but the solution is the same - adjust the sights to shoot where the OWNER wants them to hit.

It really is that simple!

No firearm is perfectly fitted and concentric in all its parts.
No two human hands are the same.
We all hold a gun differently, pull the trigger with different parts of our finger and look down the sights differently.

Put a piece of heavy tape on the side of the sights and give it a couple of firm taps; shoot. Repeat until bullets hit where you want them to hit.

Keith

[Bren]

Yeah, buy the Captain, then find out it shoots 4" high. :rolleyes:

Has anyone ever seen "The odd couple"?

At last we've found Felix Unger. BWAHAHAHAHA! :p

[jacketch]

Again, how did you measure that the sight is centered?

[Sean Smith]

WonderNine,

There is no secret evil reason for your gun to be shooting slightly off-center at 25+ yards. Just drift the :cuss: sight a fraction of an inch and be done with it. I think the only major problem here is operator headspace and timing. :rolleyes:

[boing]

WN- You know, there's nothing wrong with being a perfectionist, but the kind of nit-picking you're doing is confined to the realm of full custom guns, and then only sometimes.

Looking for cosmetic perfection in a production gun is just plain silly.