Unique / Titegroup


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kimbernut
July 5, 2007, 05:46 PM
I ran out of Unique 3 years ago and have not bought any since because it seemed very dirty in both revolvers and semi-autos but it was the most accurate powder used in .45 Colt. I've found a 4# jug of the "NEW CLEANER BURNING" Unique@$60. Sounds like a good price but is it really cleaner burning. I'm thinking of using it for .380 Auto through .45 Colt including the magnums along the way. The vast majority of my loads are .357 mag target loads and target and SD loads in .45acp.
Right now I'm halfway through a 4# jug of Titegroup and it has done well in velocity , accuracy , and temperature seems to have no effect on either but I have found it not much cleaner than the old Unique. Thoughts? Experience?

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Walkalong
July 5, 2007, 06:37 PM
Universal Clays.....The clean Unique.

Titegroup burned clean for me and was accurate. It does give the "Titegroup" stain on the cases.

Redneck with a 40
July 5, 2007, 06:42 PM
I've been loading target rounds in 357 mag and 40 S&W with the new formula Unique. It has worked very well in both and its pretty clean too. This is the only powder I use for loading handgun cartridges, 38 spl, 9mm, 40 S&W, 357 mag, it works well in all of them. If your only gonna have one powder to load handgun cartridges with, I think its tough to beat Unique.

birddog
July 5, 2007, 07:06 PM
Unique (new formula) is essentially all I use for my handgun target (and hunting) rounds. It's very, very clean. I've heard stories about the older, dirty stuff, but have not experienced that myself. I load .357, 45acp and .44mag almost exclusively with Unique and highly recommend it.

wcwhitey
July 5, 2007, 07:45 PM
I agree, the new formula is cleaner, is it the cleanest, no, but better. One word of caution. Most of the data for the "new" Unique is lighter by a small margin. I am still not sure if the publications are being cautious or pressures are slightly higher. I have had to adjust my loads down slightly, example: the old 5.0 grains behind a 158 gr swc in .38 special was the standard full power load, now my new Lyman book calls for 4.5 grains at similar velocities. Seems to perform the same. I have noticed less unburnt powder in the new formula as well. Bill

jimbeam
July 5, 2007, 09:09 PM
Funny you should ask this, as I just got back from the range. Took a new Dan Wesson Pointman in 10mm and a S&W 1006. Actually both functioned very well, until I decided to shoot some of my earlier reloads with Unique (the older powder) both pistols became somewhat prone to jamming. I came home and took every shell loaded with Unique and disassembled. I know many people have great success with this powder, but I am done with it, except for shotgun. My revolvers are more accurate with Red Dot for medium loads, and accuracy has always been elusive in my autos with Unique. I know it is a favorite powder for people that want to use one or two powders, but thank the heavens above, most of us don't have this restriction. Sorry about the complaining, just hit me at a bad moment.

ACP230
July 5, 2007, 11:35 PM
I would not be without Unique.
It's been great for me in .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum and .45 ACP.

Hunter0924
July 6, 2007, 12:42 AM
The new Unique has a more uniformly cut powder flakes. This promotes a more uniform burn resulting in a cleaner burn. I use the new Unique and it is cleaner burning powder than the old. That is about my favorite powder for pistols.

ArchAngelCD
July 6, 2007, 09:48 AM
My favorite powder for the .38 Special is W231/HP-38.

TonyT
July 7, 2007, 04:31 PM
Unique along with W-231 and Bulseye are amongst the most universal pistol powders. For cleaner burning with jacketd bulletsd try WST or American Select. For lead bullets the previous two or Trail Boss.

pinkymingeo
July 7, 2007, 04:47 PM
The new Unique is about as clean as Titegroup, which isn't bad. I don't believe there's a universal pistol powder. To me, Unique is king in medium 44mag loads, and very good in medium 357. I don't load 45lc, but it should shine there just as well. The Titegroup you're using is hard to beat in 357 short barrel loads, and good in loadings up to about 1000fps. If you're after SD loads in 45acp, Bullseye simply can't be beat. The caliber was created using Bullseye, and I don't believe anything does better to this day.

WildeKurt
July 7, 2007, 10:11 PM
I never used the older Unique but the newer worked well with higher pressure loads, 357 Magnum, 38 Special +P. It's pretty dirty with standard 38 Special loads and there was often unburned powder left behind.

jhansman
July 8, 2007, 12:21 AM
Titegroup has become my favorite powder. Yeah, it takes a bit more time to clean the brass, but sooo accurate.

strat81
July 8, 2007, 12:32 AM
Hmmm, I'm using 4.2 grains of Titegroup and a 115 grain FMJ at 1.135 in 9mm and everything is clean - gun, barrel, and cases. I started with Universal, tried some Power Pistol, but have settled on TG as my favorite for 9mm. I've kept away from Unique because of the problems it has with the Lee Auto Disk.

Walkalong
July 8, 2007, 08:49 AM
9MM is one caliber that Universal doesn't burn all that clean in for me. AA# 5, WSF and N330 do though. I love Universal in the .40.

nitesite
July 8, 2007, 02:05 PM
When I last ran out of Unique, I still had Titegroup, AA#5, AA#7, Clays, Red Dot and Green Dot and Blue Dot for my handgun loads.

I still bought another pound of Unique, though, just so i wouldn't be without it. Can't for the life of me think of what exactly I "absolutely must" use it for but it's comforting to have some (in some weird sort of way).

ArchAngelCD
July 8, 2007, 03:16 PM
I never used the older Unique but the newer worked well with higher pressure loads, 357 Magnum, 38 Special +P. It's pretty dirty with standard 38 Special loads and there was often unburned powder left behind.
I have been using Longshot for my .38 Special +P loads. I've found you can achieve the velocity associated with +P loads without excessive pressures.

kellyj00
July 9, 2007, 10:36 AM
Why would a manufacturer change a formula and leave it under the same name?

Why not just come out with a new name, market it as a new powder with entirely new load data and label the package " cleaner burning than Unique with same burn characteristics"

strat81
July 9, 2007, 08:57 PM
kellyj00, look at how many people in this forum are practically married to Unique powder. Brand equity is very important to a company. Plus, if they renamed it, they'd have to "sell it" to reloaders again.

IMO, some other powders like this are Bullseye, Varget, W231, and W748. They have the name. For another example of this outside of firearms, look at the "new" 2008 Ford Taurus. Ford killed the Taurus a year or two ago and watched the Ford 500 sell dismally. They're bringing back the Taurus because people recognize the name.

P97
July 9, 2007, 09:25 PM
I've been using Unique for over 40 years. Just recently shot some .44 Mags that I loaded in 1960 and they all shot fine. Just recently bought a 8 lb container of the new Unique. It works fine for me.

cherryriver
July 9, 2007, 09:29 PM
As regards the new Unique possibly deserving a whole new name:
According to Alliant, the formula actually is pretty much the same; it's the manufacturing process that's different. The flakes are cut much more precisely, they say, and that's where the better burning efficiency comes from.
Having used a few pounds of the new stuff, I'm inclined to accept this explanation.
And I'm going to agree with nitesite, who's simply comforted by having some. I know the feeling. If there's a bullet or caliber I don't really have the right powder for... there's always Unique.
Bill

EddieCoyle
July 9, 2007, 09:36 PM
Titegroup has become my favorite powder. Yeah, it takes a bit more time to clean the brass, but sooo accurate.

Yup. Me too. Titegroup is like the Swiss Army knife of powders. In the past month, I've loaded .32 ACP, .44 Special, .45 ACP, .500 S&W Mag, .357 Mag, and tonight I loaded 200 .38 Special wadcutters with it.

There is no more consistent powder when loading a big case with a small charge. I find it very clean too - at least on the guns.

Crazy4nitro
July 10, 2007, 12:54 PM
Hmm,
I have used and like Bullseye in my .40 but Like Eddie says,I hear it works really well in low charge weights.
What is this Stain some speak of?....anything worth mentioning?..

Crazy4nitro
July 10, 2007, 01:12 PM
Walkalong
Senior Member


Join Date: 11-20-06
Location: Mont. Al.
Posts: 2,504

Quote:
Could it be light loads will not expand the rim enough to prevent the gas from entering the cylinder?
Yes. The case mouth is not expanding enough, or long enough to contain the gases well. Typical of light loads.

Also, Tightgroup is known for this. It's the "Tightgroup Stain".
__________________

Ala Dan
July 11, 2007, 03:54 AM
What my friend Walkalong said, "Hodgdon Universal Clays- the cleaner
burning powder". However, I do use Unique and Titegroup as well in some
applications~! ;):D

Master Blaster
July 11, 2007, 12:00 PM
No its not clean, I am working on a 4lb jug now when it runs out I will be using W231 which does everything Unique does and does it much cleaner.

Universal Clays is much less accurate than unique but a bit cleaner.

W231 accurate, clean, similar burn rate and velocity to the other two.

JMHO YMMV

RPCVYemen
July 12, 2007, 09:26 PM
I am confused. I bought some Unique for use in a 45 LC (255 gr. bullet). It seemed pretty dirty to me. Is the "new" cleaner Unique labeled differently from the old? I expected something the burned much cleaner than Trail Boss, and I didn't notice a difference.

Mike

Peter M. Eick
July 15, 2007, 07:43 AM
Just a few opinions.

1) The new Unique is a lot cleaner then the older stuff.
2) Unique for me always has been more accurate then Univ. Clays.
3) When I burn out the last bit of UC, I will buy an 8 lb jug of Unique.

Good stuff all in all.

Redneck with a 40
July 15, 2007, 10:42 AM
Unique = the go to universal powder for pistol calibers, may not be the best in any one caliber, but it is the jack of all trades.:D

DMZ
July 15, 2007, 11:18 AM
I agree. I load .38 spl/.357 mag, .44 spl/.44 mag. I find myself grabbing the Unique more than any other powder when I want some loads for the range or field.

Werewolf
July 15, 2007, 01:01 PM
RE: TitegroupWhat is this Stain some speak of?....anything worth mentioning?..Check any reloading manual that publishes pressure with load and you will find that Titegroup is a low pressure powder. What that means is that for some thick walled cases the pressure developed will not be great enough to fully seal the brass in the chamber. As a result burning gases leak back into the chamber staining the brass.

It took me forever to figure out what was happening with my 45LC loads when I was using Titegroup for that. Once I switched to slower burning powders like AA#5 and AA#7 the stain went away.

Peter M. Eick
July 15, 2007, 07:36 PM
I got the stain real bad on my Smiths in 38 and 357 mag. It took a lot of work to get it off to the point that I said "enough" and will not use titegroup any more. I would rather deal with a "dirty" powder then one that stains the gun.

Do a search on titegroup and stain and you should find some reading material.

Master Blaster
July 15, 2007, 08:54 PM
I used titegroup and found it was hard to clean the brass and the gun, when I used it with cast bullets that have wax lube. Its very clean in 9mm and .38spl with jacketed or plated bullets, but a slower powder like 231 gives higher velocities.

Trailboss is unbeatable for use in large capacity cases, and cast bullet loads as long as you are looking for target velocity. These days I only shoot lead at target velocity. If I need moderate or high velocity I use jacketed bullets and unique or soon 231 as its replacement.

Unique is like black powder with cast bullets compared to trailboss :eek:

But Unique will certainly give you good moderate velocities with cast bullets.

Dave R
July 15, 2007, 11:13 PM
I used titegroup and found it was hard to clean the brass and the gun, when I used it with cast bullets that have wax lube. Its very clean in 9mm and .38spl with jacketed or plated bullets, but a slower powder like 231 gives higher velocities.I agree. My understanding is Titegroup burns at a high temp, and with cast bullets, it makes leading much worse. That's what I found when I used Titegroup with Laser-Cast bullets. When I switched to plated bullets, the leading got much better. And it nice and clean with jacketed bullets.

texgunner
July 19, 2007, 09:31 PM
I agree. My understanding is Titegroup burns at a high temp, and with cast bullets, it makes leading much worse. That's what I found when I used Titegroup with Laser-Cast bullets. When I switched to plated bullets, the leading got much better. And it nice and clean with jacketed bullets.

I noticed the same thing. I used Oregon Trail laser-cast 200g LSWC over Titegroup and for the first time I've had to deal with leading in my barrels. I don't care for the clean up afterwards either. When this last bottle of Tite group is gone I'll replace it with something else, either W231 or AA#5. I've had good results at the range with Unique but it has metering issues for me.

Tex

Werewolf
July 20, 2007, 11:00 AM
I've had good results at the range with Unique but it has metering issues for me.
Me too. Lee autodisk don't like it much. 1 lb a couple of years ago and I gave up on it.

Gila Jorge
July 20, 2007, 09:59 PM
For my revolver shooting I use Unique and 2400 and would not be without
either....but for automatics, I just bought some TiteGroup 8 pounds of it..so3
will be using it for some time to come...based it upon reccomendations on
various boards and the fact that it is not position sensitive...don;t need any3
detonation risks in my fine guns...

Werewolf
July 21, 2007, 06:37 PM
I used to use Titegroup for .45LC, 44Mag, .40S&W and .45ACP - that is until I discovered Accurate #5. Now that's a versatile powder.

I still occasionally use TG in 45LC but usually only when I run out of #5. I've switched to Accurate #7 for the .44 and .40 and still use #5 in the .44 when I don't feel like shooting full power loads so my Titegroup just sits in it's 1 lb bottle, all lonely and sad :( waiting for that special day when I've run out of everything else and it'll fullfill it's destiny to push lead downrange at faster than the eye can see velocities... ;)

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