[HeXeD775]

I was noodling around yesterday & came upon a yard sale by my Mom's place...I dunno what drew me there but I found a CVA percusion in .54 cal w/ ramrod. They were closing up for the day & the Lady of the house says "I have it up for $10 but you can take it for $5, I dont know anything about guns." Soooo....without even thinking of the reprecussions from the wife when I carry another boomstick over the threshold...I handed the woman $5 & left w/o looking back. I hope I did well, I want to use it but I don't know anything about getting started or the model. It looks pretty basic, here is a pic:

Can anyone help me out??

[4v50 Gary]

You charmed the old lady, didn't you? First thing is to buy yourself a cleaning jag, a worm and a stuck ball remover if you don't already have one. Also get a nipple wrench. Those are your basic tools for care and cleaning of the gun.

If you're new to the sport, do a search here at this forum and you'll learn how to clean it and get it up and running.

[Jamie C.]

$5? Want your money back? :D

One little thing though; PLEASE drift that front sight out and turn it around proper... it's on backwards. :o

Other than that, I can't see the first thing to complain about. Clean it up and shoot it 'til something needs fixing, then shoot it some more.


J.C.

[arcticap]

I'm not 100% positive, but it sure looks like a CVA Mountain Rifle.
The earliest models had Douglas barrels that were made in the U.S., but the later models all had barrels that were made in Spain. They're known to be very decent shooters.
The used gunshop value is about $150 or so, depending on the condition of the barrel.

You'll need some of these things to start shooting:
1. Powder measure to measure the powder charge.
2. Flask to dispense powder into the measure, so not to dispense from the powder can.
3. Capper to help apply caps without using your fingers.
4. Nipple wrench to be able to remove the nipple for cleaning it.
5. Short starter to help get the patched round ball started down the muzzle.
6. Rod accessories:
a. cleaning jag to help grip a cleaning patch for wiping & cleaning.
b. patch worm or patch puller to grab and pull stuck patches out of the bottom of the barrel.
c. fouling scraper sometimes comes in handy to clean the barrel breech.
d. cleaning brush for your caliber for removing stubborn deposits.
7. Nipple pick to clear the nipple of debris.
8. Bore Butter or Wonderlube to lubricate patches for loading, and the barrel after cleaning and to help prevent rust.
9. Patches, .015 thickness, pre-lubed or saturate them with Bore Butter yourself.
10. Balls, .530 diameter
11. Powder
12. #11 Percussion caps
13. BP cleaning solvent - will help to clean the gun without using water, and is very helpful if using Pyrodex.
14. BP Cleaning rod or kit, it's longer and has a handle for easier cleaning without using the short ramrod.
15. Ramrod - I recommend buying a wooden dowel nearly as thick as the bore caliber at a hardware store for about $1. Drill a hole in a wood or plastic ball, a hunk of plastic or wood to make a handle for it and this will help to make ramming the bullet or ball down the barrel much easier by giving better leverage. Mine are 7/16 th's in diameter and have never broken.

For a .54 caliber percussion gun, usually the common starting point for working up an accurate load is to use the .530 balls and a lubricated patch with a thickness of .015.
There are other diameter balls like .535, and other patch thicknesses, like .005 (too thin), .010, .018 (blue stripe pillow ticking), .020 (maybe too thick).
The recommended starting powder load is the same number as the caliber of the bore, about 50 - 55 grains by volume.
If buying .535 balls, start with a .010 patch or loading may be difficult.

Did you ever imagine that this could get so expensive? :D

[HeXeD775]

Thanks a million gang, y'all answered quite a few questions I had. I knew it was a percussion when I saw it, I kinda was hoping for a flintlock rather than percussion, but why make waves?? I wonder is ther is a way to convert it??

I figured the front sight was backwards, it looked odd the way it is now.

What is the difference between #10 & #11 caps? I am assuming it is either physical size or ignition strength.

The bore should be in immaculate shape, I don't think it has been fired much, the lady said it's been hanging on the wall for a long time. I can't imagine it was bought soley as a wall hanger though...I think the original owner might have passed on & she just had no need for it anymore.

I think a good cleaning & a few supplies & I should ne good to go.

[1911 guy]

It's actually pretty common to find muzzleloaders left loaded. Old ones more often, but new ones once in a while. The ramrod should go into the bore almost to where the barrel meets the breech plug. If it stops more than about 3/4", give or take, it's probably loaded. Soak the breech in water for a bit, then pull the ball. One of those CO2 gadgets will work well, but a ball puller (looks like a wood screw on the end of the ramrod) works just fine.

[K.A.T.]

If you plan on pulling a ball out of the barrel,buy a cleaning rod,don't risk pulling your ram rod apart to do this,you are going to need one anyway.

[mazo kid]

I changed my .32 Dixie Mountain rifle over to flint by buying the lock plate, hammer and frizzen and a touch hole liner. Used all the other original internal parts; lots cheaper than buying a new complete lock. Emery

[akolleth]

Looks an awful like my CVA Missouri, heck you even got the same color floor!

http://home.earthlink.net/~akolleth/missouri1.jpg

[TnRebel]

wana make $5 profit LOL

[yhtomit]

I am envious of the cool yard sale find! Whattaboggin!

Given the list of necessaries listed by articap above, I would QUICKLY sell it and use the money for something else, before growing attached to the idea of owning it ;)

Also, curiosity: Are there any laws (in PA, or anywhere that anyone knows about which to pipe up) about transferring blackpowder arms?

timothy

[HeXeD775]

Im no legal eagle but...
I understand that apparently there are no ffl transfers required for BP arms, & you dont need an FFL to send thru mail.

I could be wrong though.

[HeXeD775]

Akolleth...it is similar but mine has 2 wedges to hold the barrel & 2 "rings" that hold the ramrod. Another noticeable difference...Yours is shorter than mine:D, But yes we have similar colored floors. What cal is yours??

yhtomit...I think I am already attached.


General question to anyone reading: I read in CVA's online manual that they use #11 caps, is that true for all CVA's & is there any advantage between using #11 vs #10 caps??

[1911 guy]

BP arms do not need FFL transfers and can be sent via mail.

Articap's list is comprehensive and will make life easier. You can get by with less. Ramrod with jag, patchworm, ball puller and bullet seater. Short starter. Horn/flask and measure. Patches and balls. Powder and caps.

The difference between caps is diameter. Quality control is sometimes not up to snuff on nipples and some may be thicker or thinner than others. #11's won't stay on a thin nipple, but that's why they make #10's.

For paper punching, I'd start with a 55gr load of FFg and work up until you find the "sweet spot". For hunting, I'd not go with less than 70gr FFg. Go up by 5gr increments until accuracy begins to suffer, then back off to the last acceptable load. Find out what the max load according to CVA is (likely 110gr FFg.) and do NOT exceed it. Besides, as inefficient as BP is, you'll quickly get diminishing returns by upping the charge very much past 90gr. More smoke, more recoil, no more velocity.

[mazo kid]

HeXeD, there is a CVA Flint lock on www.auctionarms.com in the black powder section, search for item 7877478, it's on the last page. Also, I might have a CVA lock in my parts drawer. Emery

[HeXeD775]

Thank you all...thanks for the info, I am heeding all advise given, being that I am unfamiliar with the proper use of BP arms.

You guys are a great resource.

[ED21]

I am also pretty sure you have the CVA Mountain Rifle. I had one in .50 which I used a lot. I won a CVA Mountain Rifle kit in .54 at a shoot once. My .50 was a tack driver. I eventually went to a .62 Sharon hawken. I was at a shoot once and the local CVA rep showed up. Quite a character. He had a trunk full of finished Mountain rifles in the boxes. When asked about accuracy, he said he would challenge anyone to a five shot match. He would take one shot with each of five rifles out of the box. Only two of us out of 13 out shot him. He was particularly happy that I did using a CVA Mountain Rifle. He gave me a powder horn. They are good shooting rifles once you get a load worked up. Just be sure you follow the advice given previous as I don't have anything to add there. Enjoy it.

[SASS#23149]

about the bore..
It only takes 1 shot of bp and a bore left uncleaned to really mess it up,so get a drop in tyep bore light and check it out.
and be SURE you clean it EVERY TIME YOU SHOOT IT.Hot soapy water is the best,just immerse the barrel in a bucket of same,and pump it through the barrel with a ramrod and swab.Riinse with clean water,and lightly oil before stroring it.CLEAN OUT THE OIL befroe shooting it again..oil and powder don't mix.
spend the 25.00 or so for a good solidly built 'range rod.
IT's money well spent.
firing tip. when you load the gun,tap the reciever area a few times to get a few grains of powder down into the 'drum' area.Makes ignition a whole lot more reliable.a WHOLE lot.alternative is to remove the nipple and dribble a few grains in.YOu can do that for a load with no powder also.OH YES,you WILL forget to put the powder in at least once. :(

oh,and here is the FUN factor of heavy bp loads.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Throckmorton/pics%20for%20sharing%20online/Milkjugsprayatfastshutterspeed.jpg

rifle 1, water jug LOSER!

[1911 guy]

Re-read the above post. I agree with him, it's just a matter of time before you "dryball" your rifle. We've all done it at least once. The easiest answer for this is one of those co2 ball removers. No, I don't have one either. I still use a stout rod and ball puller.

[HeXeD775]

Dryballing.


:DThat sounds dirty:D

[SASS#23149]

well, dryballing does lead to some pretty 'gutteral' type language.! :)

[Blasterbear]

Go to a black powder shooting supplier and buy an aftermarket ramrod. The one that came with an .50 otherwise identical rifle broke on the first loading. Use the one that came with it for show or on the range when you are using a longer range rod.

[HeXeD775]

I know I'm asking the right people...Does anyone you know of any Bp suppliers online? I heard of only one around here.

[DixieTexian]

www.dixiegunworks.com will get you started.

[arcticap]

If you're asking about dealers of authentic black powder, this outfit sells it plus related muzzle loading accessories:

http://www.grafs.com/


At Graf & Sons, we keep it simple. We pay the freight to the first 48 states. All you pay is the price you see plus a minimal $3.95 handling and insurance ...

[HeXeD775]

update:
1st time out...I finally got to go to the range, to fire my BP rifle, CVA .54 cal.:D I actually bechmounted the rifle & fired from a few feet away b/c when I cleaned it after I got it, there was a cleaning mop stuck down in it:uhoh:. I pulled the mop out, cleaned the bore really well. A friend of mine suggested that I fire it benchmounted. Sooooooo I loaded 55gr Pyrodex Rs & sent a .54 (435gr.) TC Maxiball down the tube, and proceeded to tie it down really well to the bench (I was getting some strange looks from the other folks that were shooting):scrutiny:. The first shot fired well:), so with all seeming OK, I loaded it up again & fired another round (holding it this time). The rifle fired fine but I'm not sure what went wrong there (see pics below)::: but it seems there is a hole in the left side of the breech end of the barrel & once fired that caused the stock to break/shatter/explode/disintegrate:what:.

I don't know what the hole is for or why it's there (maybe to get you a really close shave?!?). I saw the hole there when I bought it but the hole seemed like it belonged there. Needless to say I want to save this from becoming a wallhanger in my house & still put this thing to practicle use.

Can anyone tell my Why is this hole there? (other than to send a piece of the stock into orbit)
I really want to repair this rifle, can I get the hole welded-up & repair/replace the stock?
Will a weld hold in the breech end?

If anyone wants to weigh in on this I really would appreciate it.

[Oldnamvet]

That is in about the right position for a left hand flintlock but the hole looks too big. Typical vent size is about 1/16". Someone may have started to make some shade tree gunsmith modification and didn't finish. Just put it back together and hung it on the wall. You are lucky that no one was hurt. If someone had been standing a few feet to your left when you fired, it could have been nasty. A good gunsmith should be able to fix that, perhaps by threading and putting in a plug.
Interesting that it didn't do that on the first shot. Perhaps there was some kind of plug in the hole that gave out after the first shot?

[Chawbaccer]

That can not be the original breech plug. Some body was leaning a bit of gunsmithing. Maybe drilled the wrong side for the drum, drilled too deep. converted a left hand barrel for a righty. Take your pick.

[jordan1948]

With all these great finds at garage/yard sales I'm gonna have to start going to them ASAP lol

[Voodoochile]

Well it isn't a complete loss, you can get a good gun smith to cut the abeerl just forward of the damaged area & have him install a new breach plug & drum for ya & since you need a new stock have that done.

[HeXeD775]

If I get a good gunsmith to either plug or cut & seal the breech & add new drum. Then replace/fix the stock, wouldn't it make more sense just to buy a new one? What is the cost of repair vs new rifle? I thought about having a GS thread & plug the hole.

I was holding this when it happend, my face was right behind that hole. I just turned my cap backwards right before I put my finger on the trigger. What if that saved my face (ask a few others & they say that will never happen!!! LOL).

The valuable lesson learned here is...WEAR YOUR EYE PROTECTION!!! I couldnt find the piece of the stock that broke off, it would have either gone up or left...it was just gone. I had 6 people as well as myself looking for it on concrete slab...it's been vaporized. i am just amazed that i didnt have any fire or other nasty burn me, being that close.

I will goto our local GS here & see waht he can do...thankfullly I didnt buy my MZ stamp for this hunting year yet.

[arcticap]

I really think that you'd be better off bailing out from this rifle to cut your losses. The damage is extensive, and the cost to fix it up may not be worth it because even the quality of what's left is unknown & questionable.
Why take the risk when there's not much money invested in the gun?
The parts can be sold on eBay. The lock alone is probably worth $25-$35+, plus there's the trigger, buttplate, nose cap, sights, ramrod etc....
Depending on the specific model, used .50 & .54 caliber sidelocks are available for between $100 - $200 used (All of the $100 rifles I've seen listed online are .50's).
A new .50 Traditions Deerhunter costs $168 with a synthetic stock and $200 with a hardwood stock.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00139R36108101

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00139R35108150

A new .54 Lyman DeerStalker is $278 and a .54 Lyman Trade Rifle is $275.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156033141

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156032126

A new .50 or .54 CVA St Louis Hawken costs $229 and a new .50 CVA Mountain Rifle is $259 (These are leftover discontinued models).

http://www.jedediah-starr.com/thumbnail.asp?offset=0&deep=2&cid=5

[Chawbaccer]

Chop the barrel off a couple inches or so in front of the breech and sell the gun for parts. I wouldn't trust that one. Hard to tell what else was tinkered with.

[kBob]

Let this thread be a reminder to us all to ALWAYS strip down and carefully inspect a "new" to us gun.

This reminds me of the stories of "boob-trapped" rifles in Iraq. They had a bore sized hole bored in the chamber in a spot that could not be casually observed with out detail stripping the weapon......just like a host of German and European "Deko-Waffen" as that was exactly what they were for the Iraqi market.

Perhaps this rifle was owned by someone whose spouse demanded that no functional weapon be in the house and who wanted a wall hanger.

Perhaps this rifle was purposely damaged in an effort to cause injury to a specific person.

This might even be a factory flaw if that hole is exactly oppossite the hole for the drum on the other side.

The rest of us should sure take note of this and remember before we load a BP gun to give it a thourough check over.

THank good ness th eOP was not hurt and thank you for the education.

-Bob Hollingsworth

[scrat]

wow awesome find

[dogrunner]

Check that hole to see it it's threaded!...............Likely that is simply a CLEAN OUT hole and most I've seen were plugged with a simple allen screw.....if that is in fact what it is then just replace the screw....glue the splintered stock back together, do a little cleanup/refinish, and you should be good to go!..........Let everyone know how it works out for you..........that was one heckava deal you got, make the most of it.

I'll edit this to add that if that gun was mine I would not hesitate to repair it and use it, even if it meant threading that hole myself. Note that I have an older Ithaca/Navy Hawken repro that has precisely that sort of hole in the bbl....it just makes it easier to access the breach and inside of the nipple plug for easy cleanout.

[frontiergander]

that hole isnt supposed to be there. Looks like a kit rifle from the look of the inletting. Cleanout hole is on the other side on the drum.

That looks like someone was jacking around with it.

[frontiergander]

by the way, new barrels only cost $85 + S/H from deercreek. Anyone have their number?

[dogrunner]

Frontiergander, some ML's in point of fact DO have a breach cleanout hole precisely as pictured.

I have an Ithaca/Navy in .54 that is factory fitted with exactly that setup as described and pictured in the damaged piece...........Don't know if CVA did the same, but in any event, even if not, it'd be a very simple and safe repair to simply thread and plug.

Really, it's not that big a deal, biggest problem I see is the wood replacement and even that ought not to be very difficult.............considering his total investment what can he lose?