Italian Stiletto

[mike101]

Hi guys. I'm new to the non-firing weapons forum. I have never really been into knives, but I've always wanted a stiletto. I know it's illegal to import them, but the ones I'm looking at are in stock, at variouis dealers in the US.

I'm seeing a lot by Frank Beltrame. They're not the most expensive, but not the cheapest, either. I was wondering what the quality is like.

One dealer seems to be making excuses for the fit, finish, and construction, while the others speak very highly of them. Does anyone have any personal experience with them?

Another question. Just looking for opinions. Why are they illegal in so many parts of the country? They're certainly no deadlier than any other type of knife. Is it some kind of stigma, from West Side Story, and biker movies?

[Gorgoroth]

More or less, yes. I think in some states they are treated like any other knife but in other states they are an equivalent of a black rifle in the knife world. I have a Cold Steel Ti-Lite, which is EXACTLY like a stiletto EXCEPT that it is non-automatic and AUS-8 steel.

[hso]

Do a little reading here in Non-Firearms on switchblades and you'll see that Federal law prohibits importation and severely restricts interstate commerce in switchblades while each state has it's own laws on the books regulating them. The state laws range from treating them like any other knife to permitting ownership while banning carry to banning carry for everyone except LE and Mil to banning them altogether.

F.Breltrame switchblades are nice enough as long as you purchase the higher priced ones. If you're just getting one, I'd purchase a classic pic lock with blond horn scales.

[CZ.22]

Stilettos are switchblades? I always thought they were fixed bladed Renaissiance era daggers intended for stabbing. They were easily concealed. Artillery officers carried them.

[kellyj00]

I got mine for $20 a few years ago. I don't ever touch that thing, it's cheaply made and I really don't like it too much.

I don't do knives any more. I'd love to sell off the 10 or so that I have and buy one decent pocket knife....except according to hso's post, it's illegal for me to sell that darned stilleto piece of garbage....and I believe that to be true.

I don't even think it's legal for me to have the thing now that I'm reading about it. Probably just throw it in the barrel with the rest of the trash tonight.

[mike101]

You're right. The original stiletto was similar to a big ice-pick, with a fancy handle. Now, they're switchblades.

[22-rimfire]

I have looked at a lot of them, handled many, and owned a few. They really aren't very good knives for anything other than.... click... ooh, that's cool. I have one that needs a new home, come by. Not allowed to sell it in my state. How about trade for 22 shells-one brick of Wolf Match Target? (Just kidding.) The German switch blades are better quality although they don't look as cool.

[mike101]

Funny tou should mention. I was looking at Bokers, too. The Speedlock 3000 has apparently been discontinued. MSRP was $115, but a couple of places have them for $60. The Kalishnikov looks pretty nice too.

[Geno]

In Michigan only "...one-armed people..." can legally possess a switchblade.

[mike101]

That's a riot. Still better than NJ, though. No swithblades, regardless of number of arms.

No logical reason for these to be restricted. I'd rather face a bad guy with a stiletto, than a bad guy with a Bowie.

[hso]

The Kalishnakov autos are junk. Stay away.

[mike101]

I'm disappointed to hear that. Is the knife itself junk, or do they do a poor job converting it?

What's a good brand, that isn't a fortune? Are the S&W's any good?

[CZ.22]

Anybody make a real stilletto?

[Joe Demko]

If you mean the Rennaissance-type fixed blade,lots of people make them. Here (http://www.museumreplicas.com/museumreplicas/detail.aspx?ID=427) is just one example.

[hso]

The knife starts out as a Boker Chinese economy line that has the springs put in here. Often badly done.

What are you looking for? Something specific in an auto or just anything of quality that isn't too much quality?

[mike101]

Well, I wanted something practical and useful, first. The stiletto is not for any logical reason, other than I've always wanted one. It's just for kicks.

I thought the Kalishnakov looked like it would be practical. I'm looking for something decent, that has a lot of bang for the buck. I'm unfamiliar with knives, so I really don't know how much I need to spend.

What about the Bokers that are made in Germany, like the Speedlock and Toplock?

[Vonderek]

The German Bokers are very nicely done although not something you would want as a working knife. A great knife to collect and admire though.

[hso]

M101,

If you want a switch that looks like a switchblade (:scrutiny:) then an Italian pick lock fits the bill nicely.

If you want a switch that is a practical EDC then a good Boker or Heubertus traditional toggle lock will do that well.http://nicnac.net/media/5hubyfront.jpg

If you want a switch that looks like any other boring "tactical" folder then buy a CRKT auto conversion. http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/crk/images/1130.jpg

[mike101]

Thanks guys. That Columbia River knife looks like what I had in mind, as far as a practical, bang for the buck knife.

[hso]

They "MSRP" for just a little more than the unconverted manual knives. That means you should be able to get one for between $50 and $100.

[Joe Demko]

Where?

[mike101]

www.jaxknives.com
www.bladehq.com
www.nicnac.net

and just about anywhere else that sells automatic knives. I found a lot of them. Prices seem to be running from 74.95 to 79.95. :)

[Hawk]

Too rich for my blood, but if I was bitten by the auto stiletto bug, I'd seriously consider saving my pennies for this one.

Ralph (http://www.darrelralph.com/1mainframe.htm?ddr_knives_tactfolder_stils1.htm~main)

[W.E.G.]

I think you will be real pleased with any of the choices at http://www.jaxknives.com/f__beltrame_classic.html

These are solid knives - but not exactly what I would use for a daily all-purpose knife.

Great action, great sound.

If you need a working knife, get a $5 CETME bayonet and abuse the heck out of it.

[eliphalet]

Do a little reading here in Non-Firearms on switchblades and you'll see that Federal law prohibits importation and severely restricts interstate commerce in switchblades
I believe this is incorrect, importation is fine and the laws are state by state.
To my knowledge I can buy from this web site and my state laws allow me to Carry any size automatic knife as long as it is not concealed. If hidden one much have a CCW.
http://www.skm.to/

[mike101]

I'm afraid that there is a federal law against importing them. It's silly. A couple of years ago, I was going to order one from SKM. They ordered them from Italy. Their policy was, if customs grabbed your knife, they would order you another one. If customs grabbed the second one, you were out of luck. I didn't order one from them.

So, guys, I ordered a Boker Speedlock 3000 from jaxknives, and a 9' Beltrame Classic from www.uniqueblade.com. 11" just seems a little long. Buffalo horn grips, to go with my NAA Mini, and a bayonet blade. Now, I'm ready to apply for a job with Tony Soprano.

hso, the Beltrame Picklocks are all 11". I would have bought one anyway, but no one had any. www.bladeplay.com had them, AKC Beltrames with Frank B. stamped on the blade, but they were out of them. F. Beltrame says he only makes about 80 a year. I stumbled on to a knife forum (can't remember the name) and some of the guys there shared your opinion of the Picklocks. When they get more in, I'll get one. I'll probably get one of those Columbia River knives, too.

[hso]

eliphalet,

Sorry, but importation of switchblades is illegal in general. I personally know a fellow who was caught up in bringing several cases of switchblades into the US and he and his cohorts were caught, tried and convicted on this.

All the automatic knives from overseas that come into the country are either brought in as non-autos that are not readily converted to auto function and then converted (usually by a simple machining step, but still requiring an end mill and jigs and knowledge and skill) here or they are brought into the country in violation of customs laws. The exception for this would be a government order or LE order that had all the paperwork completed for importation.

Traditional Boker and Hubertus kick spring autos often get shipped into the US without the spring and then the spring follows in a separate shipment. Without the spring they are just a toggle lock folder. With the spring they are switchblades. Boker Speedlocks are illegal to import, but the TopLock is legal. The first TopLocks were just SpeedLocks in a different box and different markings without the springs. Customs told them that they would start seizing them unless they made sure the TopLocks couldn't be converted by just dropping the coil spring in.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/CustomsToday/2002/May/lighter.xml



Switchblade Knives

Sec. 12.95 Definitions.

Terms as used in Secs. 12.96 through 12.103 of this part are defined as follows:
(a) Switchblade knife. ``Switchblade knife'' means any imported knife, or components thereof, or any class of imported knife, including
``switchblade'', ``Balisong'', ``butterfly'', ``gravity'' or
``ballistic'' knives, which has one or more of the following characteristics or identities:
(1) A blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or device in the handle of the knife, or any knife with a blade which opens automatically by operation of inertia, gravity, or both;
(2) Knives which, by insignificant preliminary preparation, as described in paragraph (b) of this section, can be altered or converted so as to open automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or device in the handle of the knife or by operation of inertia, gravity, or both;
(3) Unassembled knife kits or knife handles without blades which, when fully assembled with added blades, springs, or other parts, are knives which open automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or device in the handle of the knife or by operation of inertia, gravity, or both; or
(4) Knives with a detachable blade that is propelled by a spring-operated mechanism, and components thereof.
(b) Insignificant preliminary preparation. ``Insignificant preliminary preparation'' means preparation with the use of ordinarily available tools, instruments, devices, and materials by one having no special manual training or skill for the purpose of modifying blade heels, relieving binding parts, altering spring restraints, or making similar minor alterations which can be accomplished in a relatively short period of time.
(c) Utilitarian use. ``Utilitarian use'' includes but is not necessarily limited to use:
(1) For a customary household purpose;
(2) For usual personal convenience, including grooming;
(3) In the practice of a profession, trade, or commercial or employment activity;
(4) In the performance of a craft or hobby;
(5) In the course of such outdoor pursuits as hunting and fishing; and
(6) In scouting activities.
[T.D. 71-243, 36 FR 18859, Sept. 23, 1971, as amended by T.D. 90-50, 55 FR 28192, July 10, 1990]

Sec. 12.96 Imports unrestricted under the Act.

(a) Common and special purpose knives. Imported knives with a blade style designed for a primary utilitarian use, as defined in Sec. 12.95(c), shall be admitted to unrestricted entry provided that in condition as entered the imported knife is not a switchblade knife as defined in Sec. 12.95(a)(1). Among admissible common and special purpose knives are jackknives and similar standard pocketknives, special purpose knives, scout knives, and other knives equipped with one or more blades of such single edge nonweapon styles as clip, skinner, pruner, sheep foot, spey, coping, razor, pen, and cuticle.
(b) Weapons with fixed blades. Importations of certain articles having a fixed unexposed or exposed blade are not within the prohibition of 15 U.S.C. 1241 through 1245. However, upon release by Customs, possession of these admissible articles which include such weapons as sword canes, camel whips, swords, sheath knives, machetes and similar devices that may be capable of use as weapons may be in violation of State or municipal laws.
[T.D. 71-243, 36 FR 18860, Sept. 23, 1971, as amended by T.D. 90-50, 55 FR 28192, July 10, 1990]

Sec. 12.97 Importations contrary to law.

Importations of switchblade knives, except as permitted by 15 U.S.C. 1244, are importations contrary to law and are subject to forfeiture under 19 U.S.C. 1595a(c).
[T.D. 90-50, 55 FR 28192, July 10, 1990]

Sec. 12.98 Importations permitted by statutory exceptions.

The importation of switchblade knives is permitted by 15 U.S.C. 1244, when:
(a) Imported pursuant to contract with a branch of the Armed Forces of the United States;
(b) Imported by a branch of the Armed Forces of the United States or any member or employee thereof acting in the performance of his duty; or
(c) A switchblade knife, other than a ballistic knife, having a blade not exceeding 3 inches in length is in the possession of and is being transported on the person of an individual who has only one arm.
[T.D. 71-243, 36 FR 18860, Sept. 23, 1971, as amended by T.D. 90-50, 55 FR 28192, July 10, 1990]

Sec. 12.99 Procedures for permitted entry.

(a) Declaration required. The entry of switchblade knives, the importation of which is permitted under Sec. 12.98 shall be accompanied by a declaration, in duplicate, of the importer or consignee stating the facts of the import transaction as follows:
(1) Importation pursuant to Armed Forces contract. (i) The names of the contracting Armed Forces branch and its supplier;
(ii) The specific contract relied upon identified by its date, number, or other contract designation; and
(iii) A description of the kind or type of knife imported, the quantity entered, and the aggregate entered value of the importation.
(2) Importation by a branch, member, or employee of the Armed Forces. (i) The name of the Armed Forces branch by or for the account of which entry is made or the branch of the importing member or employee acting in performance of duty; and
(ii) The description, quantity, and aggregate entered value of the importation.
(3) Importation by a one-armed person. A statement that the knife has a blade not exceeding 3 inches in length and is possessed by and transported on the declarant's person solely for his necessary personal convenience, accommodation, and use as a one-armed individual.
(b) Attachments to declaration. Details for purposes of a declaration required under paragraph (a) of this section may be furnished by reference in the declaration to attachment of the original or copy of the contract or other documentation which contains the information.
(c) Execution of declaration. Declarations required by paragraph (a) of this section shall be executed as follows:
(1) Contract supplier; Armed Forces branch; member or employee. Declarations made under paragraph (a) or (b) of Sec. 12.98 shall affirm that facts and data furnished are declared on knowledge, information, or belief of a signing officer, partner, or authorized representative of an importing contract supplier or of a commissioned officer, contracting officer, or employee authorized to represent an Armed Forces importing branch. The signature to a declaration shall appear over the declarant's printed or typewritten name, his title or rank, and the identity of the contract supplier or Armed Forces branch he represents or in which he has membership or employment.
(2) One-armed person. Declarations made under paragraph (c) of Sec. 12.98, signed by the eligible person, shall be presented upon his arrival directly to a Customs officer who shall visually confirm the facts declared. An eligible knife shall be released only to the declarant.
(d) Verification of declared information. The importer, consignee, or declarant of knives permitted entry under Sec. 12.98 upon request shall furnish Customs additional documentary evidence from an Armed Forces branch or other relevant source as Customs officers may require in order to:
(1) Verify declared statements;
(2) Resolve differences pertaining to quantity, description, value, or other discrepancy disclosed by the importation, entry, or related documentation;
(3) Establish the declarant's authority to act; or
(4) Authenticate a signature.
[T.D. 71-243, 36 FR 18860, Sept. 23, 1971]

Sec. 12.100 Importations in good faith; common or contract carriage.

(a) Exportation in lieu of seizure. Upon a claim that the importer acted in good faith without knowledge of applicable laws and regulations, Customs officers may authorize detained inadmissible knives to be exported otherwise than in the mails, at no expense to the Government, under the procedures of Secs. 18.25 through 18.27 of this chapter.
(b) Common or contract carriers. In accordance with 15 U.S.C. 1244(1), excepted from the penalties of the Act are the shipping, transporting, or delivering for shipment in interstate commerce, in the ordinary course of business of common or contract carriage, of any switchblade knife. However, imported switchblade knives as defined in Sec. 12.95(a) so shipped or transported to a port of entry or place of Customs examination are prohibited importations subject to Secs. 12.95-12.103 and disposition as therein required, authorized, or permitted.
[T.D. 71-243, 36 FR 18860, Sept. 23, 1971, as amended by T.D. 90-50, 55
FR 28192, July 10, 1990]

Sec. 12.101 Seizure of prohibited switchblade knives.

(a) Importations contrary to law. Inadmissible importations which are not exported in accordance with Sec. 12.100(a) shall be seized under 19 U.S.C. 1595a(c).
(b) Notice of seizure. Notice of Customs seizure shall be sent or given to the importer or consignee, which shall inform him of his right to file a petition under section 618, Tariff Act of 1930, as amended (19 U.S.C. 1618), for remission of the forfeiture and permission to export the seized switchblade knives. (See part 171 of this chapter.)
[T.D. 71-243, 36 FR 18860, Sept. 23, 1971, as amended by T.D. 90-50, 55 FR 28192, July 10, 1990]

Sec. 12.102 Forfeiture.

If the importer or consignee fails to submit, within 60 days after being notified of his right to do so, a petition under section 618, Tariff Act of 1930, as amended (19 U.S.C. 1618), for remission of the forfeiture and permission to export the seized importation, the seized prohibited knives shall be forfeited in accordance with applicable provisions of sections 602 through 611, Tariff Act of 1930, as amended (19 U.S.C. 1602 through 1611), and the procedures of part 162 of this chapter.
[T.D. 71-243, 36 FR 18860, Sept. 23, 1971, as amended by T.D. 78-99, 43 FR 13060, Mar. 29, 1978]

Sec. 12.103 Report to the U.S. Attorney.

Should circumstances and facts of the import transaction show evidence of deliberate violation of 15 U.S.C. 1241 through 1245, so as to present a question of criminal liability, the evidence, accompanied by reports of investigative disclosures, findings, and recommendation, shall be transmitted to the U.S. Attorney for consideration of criminal prosecution. The port director shall hold the seized switchblade knives intact pending disposition of the case.
[T.D. 71-243, 36 FR 18860, Sept. 23, 1971, as amended by T.D. 72-81, 37 FR 5364, Mar. 15, 1972; T.D. 90-50, 55 FR 28192, July 10, 1990]

[.45Guy]

Instead of an automatic, why not pick up an old Gerber Applegate-Fairbairn folder? I carried one for a looooooong time, and she was about as quick as most crappo stilletos.

[eliphalet]

Hso,

Apparently you are correct,
Earlier I had only read the state laws at SKM's site, had done some searching and read my state's laws, but after reading deeper into the SKM web pages plus your post I do believe your correct.
Occasionally I see from small to rather large switchblades openly for sale at gun shows, that plus my own state laws, not thinking of federal import law, had led me to false conclusions.

Several years ago I almost ordered a large knife from SKM, just for the heck of it. I thought I might have some fun with having a rather large switchblade after guys I know had shown me small switchblades they had purchased at the Sturgis Motorcycle rally, but thought better of it and thankfully never ordered.

[hso]

No problem.

There's usually more confusion about switchblades than understanding. I've been collecting them (well, I've been collecting almost any type of knives:rolleyes:) for years and have also been involved in discussions on the laws associated with knife ownership and switchblades in particular.

The typical core of a switchblade collection includes a handmade 30cm picklock with buffalo horn scales and solid nickel-silver bolsters, a german toggle lock with a shot shell puller (http://www.knifeshop.com/shop/ProdukteBilder/in10081_gr.jpg) and a small-blade-release auto. Add classic American fishtailes (http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/074764000/74764819/pix994521781.jpg)(preferably from Schrade) and Camillus parachute knife (http://www.covecutlery.com/graphics/ItemGraphicA731.gif) and you've got a good little collection. You can find all of these as antiques dating back before the interstate commerce ban when your grandmother and grandfather each may have had any of these. Pricey, but available. Do try to study your state and local laws before purchasing.

[horizonod]

I'm new here so first off......:neener:....;)....hey.

I ran across this thread linked to our website and thought I'd point out an interesting and perplexing fact about the legality and total lack of common sense concerning the importation of "switchblade" knives.

While Federal law says it is illegal to import a switchblade knife or an part of one (rediculous in itself, IE: springs, buttons, scale material, brass rivets, etc.), in part because the legeslature decided decades ago that a knife that opened with a spring had no viable use other than to be a swift and silent killing instrument and was nothing more than a menace to society. It just so happens that we sell "automatic" knives by the CASE to U.S. Customs. It seems U.S. Customs finds it very handy to employ an automatic knife in the course of their daily task of, among other things, making sure none of those villianous "switchblade" knives are imported into the USA. :what:

If anybody here can think of a word better than "rediculous" I'm listening. :banghead: