[turdfergason]

I would like to get into handloading, i want to focus on .223 i have a few hundred brass right now, but that is all i have. I have heard different things from different people on how to go about reloading and have a friend that reloads handgun ammo (S&W 500), but i was told that rifle reloading is totally different, i was wonder what equipment i need, and the cheaper the better as i have a very limited budget, and how easy/hard it is to start reloading with no real current knowledge on the subject. Some help would be VERY much appreciated.

[RexDart]

Read the stickies and FAQs posted at the top of this forum. There are several (a tutoria (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=238214)l and a discussion of the costs (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=18835) are the first two to read) that will walk you through the types of equipment needed and provide recommendations.

Also, go to the websites of the major manufacturers (Lee, Hornady, Hodgdon, Alliant, others); many of them have basic guides to what's involved in reloading.

Echoing the recommendation of many here, hie thee to a library or book store and get The ABCs of Reloading and read at least the first several chapters. Those go through the processes involved in much detail.

Rifle and pistol reloading are, from a practical standpoint, almost identical. Take the brass, prepare it for reloading, add a primer, add powder, seat a bullet. However, from a process standpoint they can differ, largely because of the objectives.

Traditionally (this is only a generalization), rifle shooters are after accuracy and performance, handgun shooters are after producing ammo cheaply and in large volumes. Each philosophy will adopt slightly different processes (e.g. more or less careful brass preparation, use of single stage vs. progressive presses) depending on the goal. But the fundamental steps are the same.

You will find that reloaders are an arcane, superstitious and artistic breed, agreeing on a very few basic principles (usually) and having firmly held and often contentious beliefs about everything else. This can add to the confusion without a grounding in the basics.

It helps, before diving in to the overwhelming minutiae of the reloading hobby, to define in pretty firm terms what YOU expect reloading to do for YOU. That will help direct your questions, and help you filter the advice you get in return.

[baz]

I haven't reloaded .223, yet; plan to one of these days. I've started off loading 38/357, which by accounts is, yes, easier (being straight walled).

What's your budget? When I get ready to do .223, I plan to get a complete from Kempf Gun Shop (http://www.kempfgunshop.com/products/reloading/completerelo/KempfKit.html). With the two basic upgrades (powder measure and primer) it will set me back about $160. If you are starting from scratch, you'll need a scale and calipers, and some other basic stuff to start, that would probably run you another $80-100. Say $250. Is that doable?

[NuJudge]

Pistol cases generally get shorter on firing. Rifle cases generally get longer, and achieve an unsafe condition if not attended to. Rifle pressures are typically higher than pistol pressures. Consistent hand positioning is important with the pistol, consistent head positioning will be important with the rifle, and particularly so with AR-type rifles.

The type of cartridge optimum for firing at a paper target at 100 yards is quite different from what is optimum for 300 yards, and both are quite different from what you would fire at a Fox or a Deer. Pop cans at 50 yards, you can even get away with bulk FMJ bullets. First: decide what you are going to use it for.

Probably half of the .223 ammo I fire is at targets on a 200 yard range, where if there is wind it is from behind the firing point toward the targets. As bucking wind is not important, at this range I shoot 52 gr match bullets: incredibly accurate, but awful in wind.

For 200 and 300 yard targets where there is wind, I shoot 69 grain bullets. I would prefer to shoot 75 or 77 grain bullets, but I've never been able to get them to shoot well for me. YMMV

For 600 yard targets, I shoot 80 grain Sierras or Noslers. They are easy to get to shoot well.

You will have to trim .223 cases after their first firing. If you do not use a RCBS X-die, you will have to trim them again after the third or fourth firing. Lee has a very inexpensive lathe trimmer powered by a pull-string, which some people say they like. Lots of manufacturers make mini-lathes. I used to use a Forster mini-lathe powered by an electric drill, but have since converted to a Giraud trimmer ($400 gets you 1000 cases per hour). Trimming gets REALLY tedious, quickly.

There are lots of fancy seater and sizing dies out there. I've spent a lot of money on them. I don't know that my results are any better than el-cheapo Lee die sets.

CDD

[jvik]

I strongly endorse the recommendations to do your research - The ABC's of Reloading is an excellent starting point.

I would like to offer a suggestion: If you are like many people, once you've done the reading you'll have a better idea about the process of reloading, but the choices of available equipment will seem overwhelming. You can get good single station bench mounted presses from around $100 and up to $1800 will give you almost factory like production capabilities in a progressive press.

My suggestion is to start small but good. You can get a Lee hand held press for $30.00. Add a shell holder for your particular case (223's was it?), a set of dies and a scale and you're in business. This isn't the fastest possible way to reload, but it does have some advantages. For one thing, you can take it all to the range to work up a good load for your gun. Load 6 cases, shoot two 3 shot groups, then increase the powder by 2 tenths of a grain (you're starting at the minimum recommended charge). Keep going until you find a recipe your gun likes.

I've taken my bench press to the range and that works fine, but you need a cart to haul the 150 lbs of stuff you've got along from the car to the bench. I've been thinking about getting a Lee hand press, thanks for motivating me to put an order in.

Back in the day, when my father and I first started loading, we started with a Lee hand shotshell press. I've many a font memory of sitting at the kitchen table after supper with my dad loading shells with this press, sorting out the paper wad's etc.

[ok41]

Rexdart said it well. Educate yourself (read, read, read) and then find a mentor. Reloaders, in my experience, all have their own ideas about what's best and what works. But anyone who can show you the basic steps and tools needed will be a great aid. Good luck and welcome.

I:) played golf for about 10 years, bowled for 6 mos, fished for forty and reloaded for over 45 years.

[Grumulkin]

I started reloading on my kitchen table at around age 16 with no meaningful adult supervision (my parents didn't care at all about guns/reloading and didn't want to learn) so it can't be that hard. My first equipment was a Lee Loader for a 7X57 Mauser. Now that was cheap.

As far as economical equipment is concerned, Lee would probably be the best bet. I use and like a number of Lee products but prefer RCBS and Redding presses. For a kit that has almost everything you need, I'd go with the RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme Press Master Kit but at $250 or $260, it may be a bit over your budget. That was my first kit and I used it exclusively for many years loading everything from handgun cartridges to the 458 Lott on it (literally thousands of rounds). I still have and use most of the stuff in the kit but several months ago bought a Redding T-7 turret press which has become my favorite press though I still use the Rock Chucker.

In addition to the Rock Chucker kit, you would need 223 Rem. dies, a shell holder, powder, primers & a case trimmer. I do not trim cases after every firing; only when they need it. I use a Lyman case length gauge to tell when cases need trimming. In my opinion, the only case lube to use is Imperial Sizing Wax. Only a little is needed and it's MUCH less messy than the RCBS case lube.

[45ACPUSER]

Your first step is buying the best reference book or what I call Reloading for Dummies or The ABC's of Reloading from Krause Publications. Read it cover to cover, and then read it again while taking notes! You already have a mentor of sorts to help you get started. Another more technical book, is Handloading for Competition by Glen Zediker.

There are several great reloading manuals of the real kind not the freebee ones! Freebee manuals are good for cross referencing data, at times. For meaty manuals a person can not go wrong with the Lyman48th, Hornady, and Sierra. One must always look up loads when you compare/cross-reference data. Especially in larger calibers as some data might be using different brass from yours. Case in point before the Hodgdon website upgrade they Hodgdon used WW brass to work up loads with, whereas Sierra used Fed cases in their 308 Winchester loading information. Now, Hodgdon does not list what brass the loads were worked up in.

Press - Single Stage or Turret presses are the best way to learn before advancing to any kind of progressive press. You will always have need for a single stage press. Redding and RCBS are good sources of all kinds of presses. RCBS Rockchucker Supreme for a single stage and Redding T7 for a turret press are basically the gold standard for the two different types.

Dies - I like Redding Dies, and I would get the carbide expander ball upgrade for bottle neck rifle cases. Dillon makes carbide rifle sizer dies, but you still need to use case lube and make sure you lube the inside of the case neck, too. I would just stick with regular dies for rifle cartridges. Dillon makes die sets specifically for their press so to speak, meaning that it does not come with a case mouth belling die; Redding makes a set of dies for progressive presses, too. I like Forster competition seaters, and they can be had as an individual item. Dies are pretty much threaded universally, except for Lyman 310 dies, and Dillon dies for the Square Deal B. Accuracy nuts will use hand dies, and they require an arbor press be used.

Shell holders (if the die set doesn't have them like Lee) or the appropriate shell plate for the progressive press. Remember that many shell holders work for more then one cartridge. I would do some home work, especially if you get a Dillon. Some cartridge conversions might only require you to get powder funnel for the new cartridge.

A tumbler will be a good investment, as clean cases will not harm you dies. There are vibratory and rotary tumblers out there. I like corn cob media treated with some Iosso case polish. You can get walnut in bulk at Petco or Pet Smart. Bulk corn cob grit is a great way to reduce the cost of commercially supplied media, because you pay through the nose for the treated media from other vendors.

MTM makes great loading block tray that handles most cartridges.

Case Lube is great for both conventional dies, and to treat your brass used in a progressive press even with carbide dies. That extra lubricity makes the cycling of the press a tad slicker! Dillon spray lube works well for shake and bake application. I like Imperial Die Wax for rifle cartridges when FL sizing.

Case Neck Brush to clean bottleneck rifle cases

Dial Calipers

Case Trimmer (Lee works, but Possum Hollow is better, Wilson makes the best hand powered Lathe trimmer, and Giraud is the best powered Trimmer)

Deburring/Chamfering Tool

Primer Pocket Cleaner and uniformer

Primer Flip Tray is needed for loading pick up tubes for some primer systems like the Dillon.

Priming Tool (I like the RCBS (now even better with universal shell holder, but Sinclair makes the best)

Powder Scale - remember that is always better to have a mechanical scale as a back up to any electronic scale.

Powder Funnel kit with drop tubes especially if you intend to use powders like Varget.

Powder Trickler (used to tweak powder charges)

Powder Measure (nice for faster powder charges it does require a bit of learning curve to get consistent powder charges sort of rhythm thing) standard with progressive presses, but the RCBS Uniflow is nice! Redding makes a better one, and Harrell is the gold standard!

Hammer Type Bullet Puller (for taking down the boo boo's)

Ammo boxes and labels

A notebook for recording your results! Saves covering the same ground twice!

A chronograph is great when working up loads, but is more a luxury in the beginning.

[Bitswap]

There's lots of good info here, very good. But I'll throw my 2 bits in anyway.

I assume your loading for a 223 that has a magazine.

I'd start with a single-stage press setup from Lee. You'll find that most the work reloading these is in brass preparation and the actual resizing, priming and bullet seating is the easy part. Go for a '223 reloading kit' that has everything you need: dies, press, scale, funnel. You can adjust your equipment later if needed. Nothing wrong with full-lengh sizing at first and probably preferred when starting out. If it doesn't include a mechanical grain scale, buy one of those as well. I don't like 'powder dippers'.

With a single stage process, you get to know all the details and basics of reloading very cheap. I do much more than necessary when reloading, but just doing the basics to learn won't overwhelm you.

Nothing against Lee presses and use the one in the kit (i have one dedicated to priming bmg), but if you see an RCBS rock cruncher for cheap, grab it. That's what I use for bmg.

I'd look into a rock tumbler (rubber wet type) instead of a vibrator to clean the brass first off. Get corn cob media from a pet store. Much quieter and can handle heavier loads.

Hint: tumble before sizing/decapping, or get a dental tool to get the media out of the primer pockets.

Use a drill bit to clean the flash holes. Get a Lee hand primer. I like Lee, they make good stuff for cheap. (i have stuff from redding, rcbs and CH as well)

Do 20 or so rounds to get the hang of it and use the 'standard' bullet specification at first for seating depth. After you learn the basics, you can get into match reloading.

Reloading can be dangerous and there are some areas you should pay special attention to.

1) Make sure the primer is at least flush or lower than the base.
2) Get and use a chamber-length guage!!! Trim those case to proper length, verify headspace!!!
3) Verify all rounds are seated properly and will chamber in your barrel.
4) Make sure you don't double load your powder.
5) Wear eye protection... always

These will help you stay alive and not lose any appendenges or sight.

After you do the basics, you need to make a decission: match load or volume load. I know how fast an ar goes through rounds.

For match loads, you'll probably stick with single stage reloading supplement the process with more brass prep and measurements. When you get to overall length measurements, your magazine may not be able to accomidate the optimum length. A problem I had with 308's and remmington barrels.

There are some process in match reloading that contribute to being more accurate than other procedures. For example, when I started turning my necks and using a neck (only) sizer die I saw a SIGNIFICENT difference. Along with simple things like using brass with the same weight, or close to it, made a difference as well.

If your going for volume, then get a mulit-stage press like the Dillon 550. Now your talking mass production in a short period of time. It will produce suprisingly accurate loads. I use one for 45's, 40's and 223. I'm in the camp that self-reloading will always be better than factory reloading... not sure if it's true or not though. The key here is knowing the individual steps involved and how to spot problems. I'd never advocate jumping directly into a multi-stage press for a beginner! I like the Dillon cause they have a lifetime warrantee and you just need to change the heads and bases for a new caliber. Don't worry about that single stage you have left over, you'll find a use for it, can't have enough presses!

So, how is the 223 different than a pistol round like the 45 acp? Pistol rounds a much easier to load than a shouldered round. You don't have to worry about the length to the shoulder and only overall cartdrige lenght. You do need an extra die to crimp them though. Other than that, pretty much the same. I don't do match reloading on my pistol rounds.

Welcome to reloading. It's a science and a lot of FUN!!! Not to mention the savings involved.

Oh, one last thing, I promise then I'll shut up.

After tumbling your brass for a few hours you may notice that they are not shinny. I don't worry about it, they're clean. If you do want shinny brass NEVER use anything that contain amoniona.. EVER! If you want them shinny, get a pollish made for brass. I wouldn't worry about it. IMO, polishing compunds add more work then they're worth, you have to make sure the pollishing compound is cleaned from the brass before resizing... what a pain.

Oops, make that two things... Brass lube. For individual lubing, nothing better than Imperial Sizing Die Wax. For bulk lubing, Dillons Spray Lube is the ticket. Lube pads sold by rcbs and lee just plain suck, messy and don't get the inside necks. Try Imperial first.