[Ed Gallop]

I am loading 45 Colt with 255 gr lead using slightly over the suggested load of HS7 and also used HS6. I'm not very experienced but have previously reloaded 38 and 357 and it never took half the time to clean brass in the tumbler. There is a lot of room in those 45 Colt brass and such a small amount of powder. Using a faster powder and more of it didn't reduce the problem. I was wondering... Would a filler to keep the powder near the primer reduce the problem? Ed.

[Wedge]

I use Unique and HP-38 in my .45 Colt. Never use filler and never had a problem.

[Walkalong]

Unique & Universal Clays both fill the case reasonably well and work well without fillers.

Blue Dot is a medium slow powder that does pretty good and fills the case fairly well. It can be a bit position sensitive though.

700X is one to try if you want to use faster powders as it is bulky and burns clean at low pressure. Ditto for Solo 1000 as well.

I tried some Trail Boss and some N320 the other day and they showed real promise. The Trail Boss WILL fill the case.

Others will probably work, but I have used these and can vouch for them. 700X and Trail Boss shoot very well with lead in big cases. 700X from experience, Trail Boss from all reports.

[Jim Watson]

Do you mean you are using slightly over the suggested starting load or slightly over the suggested maximum load? If the latter, cut it out.
If the former, the HS powders are dense and heavily deterred Ball-process powders. They don't take up much room in the case and they don't burn "clean" until chamber pressure is well up into the rather narrow range they are meant for.

Unless you want to go up to high end loads, one of the other powders recommended would do better. I have loaded a good deal of .44 Special and .44-40 with 700X, largely because I keep it on hand for 12 gauge. It is a good pistol powder but is a flake type and will not measure as uniformly as the "spherical" HS 6/7.

Do not put crap other than gunpowder in your ammunition.
Yes, I know it is done, you can read stories about "caulk backer rod" all over the Cowboy boards, but it not necessary for standard loads.

[ReloaderFred]

The .45 Colt is an old blackpowder round and the case was designed for those loads. It takes quite a bit of pressure to get the thick case to swell enough to fully seal the chamber, which is why light loads in this caliber are noted for blowback.

Unless you have experience with case fillers, and fully understand what is taking place when using them, it's not a good idea to use them. Case fillers completely change the formula, and the .45 Colt doesn't really lend itself well to their use for the casual reloader.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Werewolf]

What Reloader Fred said:

Don't sweat the unused space. I've run everything from TG (very fast powder), HP-38, AA#5, HS6 to AA#7 (relatively speaking a slow burning pistol powder) in 45LC and gotten excellent results from all and never needed a filler under predominantly 250 gr LRN bullets.

The only potential problem with low volume powders is position in the case when fired which can lead to a rather large FPS variance depending on the powder and bullet combo. Since 45LC isn't exactly a precision target round anyway who cares about a potential 75 FPS spread anyway? BUT if you do care then use Titegroup which is designed to not be a position sensitive powder and is a big reason why many 45LC reloaders like it so much for that caliber.

Finally I'll just say "Don't sweat the small stuff". In 45LC how much of the case is filled with powder really is in the grand scheme of things the small stuff.

[Walkalong]

Since 45LC isn't exactly a precision target round anyway who cares about a potential 75 FPS spread anyway?

:what: Don't tell that to my FA 97 in .45 Colt that I just pawned my left n** for! It is superbly accurate. Many revolvers shoot this round very well. It is not tremendously popular for no reason. Very versatile as well. :)

[Ed Gallop]

Thanks for the information. My question was answered. Apparently it is in the nature of the 45 Colt's straight walled large casing that causes much more blowback than the 38 I am used to. My powder choices are limited, living so far from a decent city, but remember Universal Clays (and maybe others) was available. I was not aware shotgun powder is suitable. Ed.

[TEDDY]

ED:most pistol powders were originaly shotgun powders.bullseye for one and 700x(hyscore) for another. :confused: :)

[Ed Gallop]

Thanks. Did some extensive on-line research and found a lot of good info on powder. Going to the big city tomorrow so should have a good choice. Ed.

[Werewolf]

Since 45LC isn't exactly a precision target round anyway who cares about a potential 75 FPS spread anyway?

Don't tell that to my FA 97 in .45 Colt that I just pawned my left n** for! It is superbly accurate. Many revolvers shoot this round very well. It is not tremendously popular for no reason. Very versatile as well.
Versatile :D - now that's an understatement if I ever heard one. 45LC can do just about anything one needs it to do within about a 200 yard range and do it well enough.

Precision though is, I suppose, a relative term. I'm happy if I get 4" groups at 25 yards with my Ruger Vaqueros and 4" groups at 100yds with my Win 94. That's about the best I personally can get and I've tried a myriad of different loads including factory loads. If anyone has what they'd consider a precision 45LC load for a Win94 I'd sure be interested in knowing what it is.

[bakert]

Most of my .45 Colt loads are loaded with either with Unique or Universal Clays but I've also used both HS6 and HS7 with good results. I've been told by a much more knowledgeable reloader than myself that a pinch of the polyester fiber used for pillows can be used with many medium burning powders to give more uniform results and intend to give it a try one of these days but my loads work pretty well as they are.

[Walkalong]

I have used Super Grex in the past as a filler, but to stop leading, not fill space. There are things to look out for useing fillers though, and they can get you in trouble if you are not carefull.

[Gila Jorge]

Fillers I would not use....did once on some 12ga one oz loads where did not have the right wad...used a pinto bean...got louder reports...

all kidding aside....I use TiteGroup because of its lack of positional problems
one of the other recommended it and for good reason...I have switched to
TiteGroup...but still use Unique and 2400 regularly...700X I would not use in
pistols...recall seeing problems with pressure etc..some years ago...just made a mental note NOT to use it...and I have about 15 pounds of it and 800X on hand due to shotgun usage...word to the wise...

[Clark]

For accurate wimp loads in the spacious 45C case, try Unique.

[Ed Gallop]

Bought some Unique today. I've been measuring by cc instead of grains with the HS6 with a Lee chart. It doesn't show Unique. I'm looking for a affordable scale but until then need to convert 9 to 10 grains of Unique to a cc measure. Can't seem to locate it on the web.

Accuracy? I get consistent 4" groups at 25 yards with my Rough Rider 45 Colt without a rest (a lot tighter with one). It is about the same with my 9mm and 357 so I have no accuracy complaints.

[Meros]

Lee has an expanded chart on their site showing many more powders, including Unique, for each size measure. I've been told that the charts are conservative estimates, but work plenty well enough.

[Werewolf]

Usually the Lee chart is right on but occasionally it will be off a few tenths of a grain. When that happens - usually because of differences between LOTS of the same powder I just note the new weight and lot number of the powder on that particular box or boxes of reloads and continue to march on.

[Master Blaster]

try Trailboss its made for .45 colt lead bullets and moderate target velocity.
Fills the case right up, no leading or smoke.

[SASS#23149]

depending on the bullet being used, 9 to 10 grains of Unique is a LOT according to my books and the alliant website.
are you experimenting with hot loads.?? bad idea,imho

[RPCVYemen]

Unique & Universal Clays both fill the case reasonably well and work well without fillers.

I'm confused - I just started using Unique, and it works real well, but it doesn't come anywhere near filling the case.

How many are you putting in there?

I used 5.7 grs of Unique under under a 255 gr Hornady FP. It fills up about a quarter of the case.

Mike

[gandog56]

FA 97 in .45 Colt that I just pawned my for!

What's a left n** going for these days?:neener:

[Ed Gallop]

I fired several rounds of 9.2gr of Unique yesterday behind 255gr lead and was very pleased. It wasn't too much. As far as filling the brass... Short of black powder, I wouldn't consider filling a 45 Colt with smokeless unless I was building a bomb. One cc of Unique (9.2gr) wasn't even close but more than the .7cc of the finer HS7 and HS6. I'm very happy with the Unique. Ed.

[Walkalong]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkalong
Unique & Universal Clays both fill the case reasonably well and work well without fillers.

I'm confused - I just started using Unique, and it works real well, but it doesn't come anywhere near filling the case.

"Reasonably well" I guess I did not word that quite right. ..........Unique is bulky compared to many powders. Trail Boss is the only powder that will fill that big old case. It is accurate as well, but sooty. N320 is looking good for light to medium .45 Colt loads, but does not fill the case even a little bit. I'm trying N330 and a couple of others as well.

What's a left n** going for these days? :neener:

A left n** is going pretty high these days. That's why I could get the 97. I have not regreted it. It is sweet. We only live once and I've lived most of mine. What the h***.....:neener:

[Ed Gallop]

I need to correct my statement that I was pleased with 9.2gr Unique. It was powerful but not a problem until I cleaned the barrel after 24+ rounds. Never had lead build up like that before. The cleaning rod met a lot of resistence and I wonder what effect it had on the bullets. It may be fine for jacketed but not for cast.

I used between 7% and 8% tin to cast the bullets. Guess I could recast with 15% or 20% tin if the lower Unique charge still leads the barrel excessively. I ran a brush on a drill until the battery needed charging and there is still some stubborn lead in there. Ed.

[wcwhitey]

Ed. 9.2 Grains of Unique is a little on the hot side. The current Lyman shows 8.5 as max for 845 fps out of a 7 1/2" Ruger Blackhawk. The starting load is 6.0 for your 255 bullet. I have a buddy that shoots 8.3 grains of Unique behind anybody's 255 Grain bullet with excellent results. Not too soft but not pushing the limits either. Leading is not an issue. FWIW I have had leading issues with Unique when the loads start to get up there, if you stick with standard pressure loads you will be pleased. Bill

P.S. Unique works well with just about any cartridge that started out as blackpowder. .38 Spl, .45 Colt, 44-40 etc. I use it with great results for .44 Special and Medium range .44 Mag as well. On anything like the .357 or full house .44 Mag's I go to slower burning powders like 2400.

[wcwhitey]

RPC, on the other hand 5.7 grains under a 255 jacketed bullet is dangerously low level. Starting should be more in the 7.5/7.8 range and thats for 750 fps. Don't want to get one stuck in the barrel, check the data on that one. LOL Bill

[RPCVYemen]

PC, on the other hand 5.7 grains under a 255 jacketed bullet is dangerously low level. Starting should be more in the 7.5/7.8 range and thats for 750 fps. Don't want to get one stuck in the barrel, check the data on that one. LOL Bill

I did check the data - I think that I am reading it correctly.

I should have made it clear that I was shooting the Hornady 255 gr Lead FN. In the 7th Edition (2007) Hornday manual, using Unique with that bullet, the listed loads run form 4.6 grs (650 fps) to 7.0 grs (850 fps). The 5.7 grain load should push that bullet at 750 fps (on page 910).

For the jacketed 250 grain HP-XTP, 5.7 would be low. The Unique loads listed for that bullet in the Hornday manual are 6.2 to 7.4 (on page 908).

Until your post, I never looked at jacketed bullets. I never realized they needed so much more powder to achieve the same velocity. Why the difference?

Mike

[wcwhitey]

My mistake, I took the "Hornady FP" as a jacketed bullet. LOL Bill

[Walkalong]

I loaded some .45 Colt with American Select this weekend. It is real bulky compared to most powders and filled the space pretty well. I will probably shoot them next weekend. Red Dot is another bulky powder which burns well at low pressure. I am going to try it as well. Competition, N320 and N330 show potential. Trail Boss is very accurate and fills the case well, but is very sooty. If I can't find something as accurate though it might have to be the one.

[Master Blaster]

Trail Boss is very accurate and fills the case well, but is very sooty.

I have been loading and shooting trailboss 4.5-5.0 for 230 RNL to 5.2-5.5 grains for 200 lswc in 45 acp (hodgdon gave me this load over the phone) for some time now, one thing I have really liked about it is the fact that there is no smoke or soot, and no leading at all. I have also loaded and shot a good number of rounds in .45 colt and .44 magnum and .357 magnum. all target velocity lead loads. No Smoke or soot there either, its the cleanest powder I have ever used for hardcast lead bullets by far.

The fact that it fills all of the cases mentioned, makes for excellent consistency, and no chance of a double or under charge.

[Ed Gallop]

I measured in Lee's cc dippers and compared with a scale. Weight is apparently more accurate in that the same powder in the same dippers varied slightly from scoop to scoop, depending on how it settles in the scoop.

The Lee chart shows .7 cc of Unique is 6.40 gr but I measured slightly under or at 6 gr. The finer HS7 shows 10.30 gr in .7 cc. Big difference. However. I fired 9 gr of Unique and it was considerably more powerful than 10 gr of HS7.

As for filling the 45 Colt case... It would take over 2.0 cc of any smokeless powder and that would be too much for sure. So, to get half full is as much as can be expected.

1.0 cc of American Select is 7.5 gr and 1.0 cc of Unique is 9.2 gr. That would indicate American Select would fill the case nearly 20% more than Unique of the same weight. Red Dot would fill slightly more of the case than American Select for the same weight. But volume and weight is not the only factor to consider.

I discovered 9 gr of Unique is considerably more powerful than 10 gr of HS7. I haven't compared other powders or read the stats yet. I am learning about powders and need to focus on energy vs weight/volume as the ultimate factor to determine how much powder is used in the 45 Colt. Very interesting and challenging. Ed.

[Master Blaster]

Before your experimentation with Lee dippers takes you to the emergency room.

Get a scale, and a good reloading manual.

[Walkalong]

no smoke or soot, and no leading at all. I am talking about the cases. I am also talking about plated bullets, but I would not think that would make a difference. The powder burns very clean, it just soots up the cases something fierce. AC

[Ed Gallop]

Master Blaster... It isn't the first time I learned the hard way only to regret it (slightly anal sometimes). I already bought a scale but do need a good manual. I get a lot from the web but it is conflicting and ambiguous.

I made the mistake of reloading the least expensive way, with a Lee Loader, but soon discovered I needed a primer, scale, press, etc., to make it easier. Should have bought a good kit to begin with. Ed.

[RPCVYemen]

I already bought a scale but do need a good manual.

I guess that I am paranoid. I bought two printed manuals (Lyman and Hornady), and for right now, I exactly follow the listed loads. I decided to start with Hornady bullets, so I used one of their loads, exactly as printed. I have loaded about 2K rounds, so I am pretty new to all of this.

I would not trust any loads from the Internet - unless I can verify them somehow. The key to understanding the Internet is that no one is editing. I feel confident that someone is editing and verifying the loads in the printed manuals. That doesn't mean that there won't be errors in the printed manuals, but it makes errors much less likely. And my heirs will have someone to sue. :)

Mike

[Hikingman]

Using fiberfill which is a cotton-looking polyester fill from the fabric store. Still experimenting, and so far have not noted any increased accuracy over the non-filled loads.

[jismay]

I reload 45 colt using 165gr, 200/205gr and 250gr cast bullets. I use 5.0gr of Clays for all three loadings, and it does quite well. It doesn't fill the case, but it works fine, and a double charge would be very obvious. It is a little dirty, but I can live with that.

I have also loaded 45 colt with 25gr by volume of FFFg Triple Seven, and then used 1/2 inch caulk backer rod to take up the air space in the case. Hodgdons reccomends only using the FFg in cases, and never using any fillers, but the 25gr load is the same as what I use in the cap&ball pistol.

[Ed Gallop]

I have been loading fff black powder in the 45 Colt case just above the base of the 255 gr cast bullet so it will compress the powder. That is more than 25 gr but it shoots great.

I've been loading only 6.3 gr Unique and it shoots great too at 45'. Have a friend with Clays and it fills the case more per gr of powder. Wonder if the space really makes a difference. Ed.

[Carl N. Brown]

While Black Powder or Pyrodex and other BP susbstitute should
not be loaded with an airspace, smokeless pistol powders should
not care. For best results with smokeless powder in a roomy
black powder cartridge like a .38 Special or a .45LC, consistent
crimp (consistent bullet pull) is more important than using a
filler to take up airspace.

[Snapping Twig]

I recently started reloading for an old 45LC that I've had but haven't fired. I started with cast 255g Keiths over 7.8g W231. They shot smooth and not dirty at all.

I decided to use up some various bullets I had laying around, they are the 200g SWC (flying ashtray) and some 260g GCTC I made up for my Casull - all cast from WW and Linotype.

After consulting various manuals I decided to back off the powder to 7.5g W231 so that I could load all three without powder bar changes.

I'll shooth them up tomorrow and get back to you on how they perform, but I have high expectations.

In future I will stick to the 255g Keith and 7.5g W231, but as a fellow in the arts, you know how you have to try different things. :)