[DixieTexian]

I was wondering what y'all think about trigger control when handling singla ction revolvers. I reallize it is important with modern guns, but it seems to me that it really isn't all that necessary with a single action. As long as the hammer is down, I would think it would be plenty safe. I also feel like I am a lot less likely to drop the gun, which would be more dangerous in my mind, if I have a finger through the trigger gaurd. I realize that at ranges you may not have an option, but I was thinking more along the lines of being out in the woods.

[DMZ]

I do not have two sets of handling procedures. The procedures I use at the range I practice in the field.

I carry with the hammer down on a uncapped nipple, empty cylinder. I can't recall dropping a revolver, but hiking through heavy brush on difficult terrain, I have taken many a spill.

I do not put my finger in the trigger guard until the gun is pointed at the intended target and the hammer is cocked. It is very, very easy to have a pre-mature discharge with one's finger in the trigger guard when the hammer is cocked on a SA revolver, or a DA revolver for that matter.

[alucard0822]

depends on what you mean by "trigger control", as a skill to ensure accuracy I place it above all but safety and the "4 rules" as necesary for shooting it may be even more important than with modern pistols to have a good trigger control discipline in that there is a noticeable delay from when the hammer falls to when the pistol fires, colt models drop the rear sight with the hammer, and there is more room for error. as far as safety goes resting the hammer on an unloaded cylinder is best, some cap&ballers have small pins in between the caps that will hold the hammer and cylinder securly with all 6 loaded, also important is a holster with good retension and one that covers, or has a strap to prevent the hammer from being cocked inadventantly when you take a spill, or it snags on brush

[DixieTexian]

I was thinking more like when you take your gun out of the holster and such, do you grab it with your finger in the trigger gaurd or do you just grab the handle? Obviously, if the revolver is cocked, you should not have your finger on the trigger unless you are shooting.

[oneshooter]

YOUR FINGER REMAINES OFF OF THE TRIGGER UNTILL YOU ARE READY TO FIRE!!!!!

Clear enough?

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[ArmedBear]

DT-

You have an 1858, right?

That means you can keep the hammer in the safety notches.

[DixieTexian]

Yeah, I know you can keep the hammer in safety notches and all. My question is though, if these guys thought it was safe back then, why is it all the sudden dangerous. And they were Texas Rangers. They ought to know their guns.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c178/DixieTexian/rangers3.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c178/DixieTexian/rangers2.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c178/DixieTexian/rangers.jpg

[ArmedBear]

I'm guessing that the whole "finger off the trigger" thing comes from semiautos and bolt-action military rifles. It was not par for the course in the Old West, with single actions and rifles with exposed hammers.

Thumbing the hammer was once considered a way to control whether the gun would fire.

That said, I don't advocate unsafe practices. I'll just get flamed.:p

But I agree with you: I'd rather not drop the gun. If the hammer is down, in a safety notch, your thumb is away from the hammer, and you don't drop the gun, it won't go off. Unless you have a lanyard, a finger in the trigger guard is a very sure way to keep from dropping the gun, UNDER SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, and assuming you're 100% conscious of other safety factors.

Furthermore, if you don't have your finger in the trigger guard, how do you spin the pistol?:D

[Jim K]

Because we are in a different era. Not only will you be sued for all you will ever be worth if your gun discharges and kills or injures someone, but we must do everything we can to prevent accidental discharges that harm our sport. The anti-gun gang hops on every accidental shooting, sending teams of lawyers to start lawsuits before the powder smoke blows away. (In one case, the widow of a man killed in a range accident reportedly was told of the tragedy by a lawyer from the Brady Campaign who showed up even before the police!)

Further, many people in the shooting sports today are newbies, whose experience with guns is, to put it mildly, not comparable to that of those rangers. For the inexperienced, setting a firm, flat rule is the best approach; loading it with exceptions only confuses the new folks.

For years, as a deputy sheriff, I carried a DA revolver in a Bucheimer Federal Man holster, with the trigger guard fully exposed. I was trained to draw with my finger on the trigger and start the hammer back right away so the hammer fell when the gun lined up with the target. Today, I would be run off the range, even a police range, for doing that.

So, all things considered, the advice given is good. Of course, a SA revolver can't fire if the hammer is not cocked, no matter where the trigger finger is, but many folks feel that the rule about keeping the finger out of the trigger guard until ready to shoot is a good one and needs to be practiced all the time. It only takes one slip to create a tragedy.

Jim

[ArmedBear]

I'm guessing that Dixie Texian is asking about field shooting, since he's posted at least one BP revolver hunting picture. Dropping the gun is an issue in rough country, not at the range.

What works at the range isn't always an option in the field, and vice versa. You don't walk around with a slung, loaded rifle at the range, either.

[DixieTexian]

Yeah, I'm talking about in the field, when it may be you and someone else, and both of you are experienced, etc. I wasn't talking about teaching newbies. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be concerned about safety. I was just kinda wondering, partly from a historic setting and such. Personally, I grab it out of my holster with my finger on the trigger when I am out in the woods. Kinda like what JK said about the double action revolver. Now, I am careful where it gets pointed and such, and I would not do that at a range. However, I never go to ranges as my family has plenty of land to roam around on.

[DuncanSA]

Being new to black powder and CAS I find that I have much firmer control of my cap and ball pistols when I cock them with my forefinger braced against the inside front of the trigger-guard.

I have been a pistol shooting instructor for years and this goes totally against the grain of what I have always taught. It would seem however that when Colt and Remington designed their weapons they intended trigger fingers to be inside the trigger-guard when cocking the pistol.

Comment will be appreciated.

[ArmedBear]

With those old guns, lacking any form of automatic safety devices, I think that safety is more about the hammer than the trigger. They have no transfer bars, no drop safety devices, nothing.

First and foremost, I don't cock the gun until it's pointed where I want to shoot. I don't have the hammer down on a capped, loaded chamber.

[oneshooter]

Please refer to my previous post on this subject.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[Jamie C.]

Not being a disciple of the revered Col. Cooper, and being the kind that likes to do his own thinking, I've come to the conclusion that single action revolvers are indeed a whole different case that most other modern revolvers or autos.

As ArmedBear has pointed out, it's the hammer on a SA that gets you into trouble. If the hammer isn't back, or resting on a live round, the gun is inert no matter what you do with the trigger. If you want proof of this, look at some of the original 19th century guns that either don't have a trigger, or have it wired/fixed back against the trigger guard.

I personally draw the gun from the holster with my finger on the trigger. My thumb acts as a kind of safety, staying across the spur of the hammer even after it's cocked, right up 'til I squeeze the trigger. This is done just in case something causes me to change my mind about firing.

Also, if I'm drawing in a hurry, trying to make a fast shot, the gun is cocked on the way up to the target.
( The cocking process actually starts as the gun is leaving the holster. )

I should point out that I've been shooting SA revolvers since I was a kid ( that's something like 30 years ago now ), and never had an accidental/negligent discharge with one. This is probably due to me using the above method.

However, none of the above will work very well with a Glock. ;)


J.C.

[unspellable]

I have observed that on those cap & ball revolvers equipped with a safety notch or pin, that when so set one nipple is exposed in the capping cutout. It occurs to me that if the revolver fell, or something fell on the revolver, that cap could be set off. Any thoughts on this?

[ArmedBear]

I think it's unlikely that something will strike the cap.

It is theoretically possible, though, if it falls on something that sticks up just right, which is a reason I think that it makes more sense to use the trigger guard to help prevent dropping the gun. It's not possible, even in theory, for the gun to go off when it's not cocked, and not dropped, just because one's finger is inside the trigger guard when he draws the gun from a holster.

[Omnivore]

SAs are different, and there are lots of different guns besides, but the shooter must have an automatic, unthinking trigger disclipline that keeps the finger off that thing. I've written that you can spot an inexperienced or undiscliplined shooter a block away by the fact that the finger goes straight onto the trigger as soon the gun is in the hands. Do not ascociate with such folks.

Look, my AR-15, my AKs, M1A and Mini-14 are all single action, as are a few of my autopistols including a CZ with an exposed hammer. You won't see me parading around the range or in the field with my finger on the trigger. If you ever do, please punch me in the face-- you'll be doing me a favor.

You'll never drop your gun if you learn to handle it and you are paying attention. Wrap your non-trigger fingers around the grip and you could hang your full weight from it-- what more do you need?. If you feel awkward handling it without the index foinger, you need far more handling paractice before you ever load the thing.

Oh, and *use two hands*. Remember that bumper sticker (Old-West movies notwithstanding): Gun Control Means Using Both Hands.

Hollywood isn't exactly known for its gun-savy producers.

Think of your trigger finger as having one purpose- operating the trigger.

The whole idea is that of habit. What you do here will be done exactly the same over there. Field, indoor range, or anywhere else. Its automatic.

[Jamie C.]

SAs are different, and there are lots of different guns besides,

Yes, and each gun/type of gun should be treated as it's nature requires.

A Glock, for instance, needs a holster that covers the trigger, to be safe. And one should never put their finger on the trigger of a Glock until one is ready to fire. A single-action revolver, on the other hand, has different requirements, and can be carried in a holster that leaves the trigger exposed. It also will not fire until the hammer is manually cocked.


Think of your trigger finger as having one purpose- operating the trigger.

I don't think anyone's arguing that. However, how and when the trigger is operated varies with each firearm.

For instance, a Colt SAA requires the trigger to be operated after loading, to make the gun safe. This little fact kind'a ruins the whole "don't put your finger on the trigger until you're gonna shoot", don't it?


The whole idea is that of habit. What you do here will be done exactly the same over there. Field, indoor range, or anywhere else. Its automatic.

If you do the same thing(s) with a Glock or 1911 that you do with a SAA or DA revolver... odds are good you'll have an accidental/negligent discharge.

You simply can't throw thinking out of the loop and depend totally on habit, good or bad. Sooner or later, doing so will turn around and bite you.

Sorry, but I'd rather deal with a person who shows familiarity with the particular gun he/she's using or carrying than someone who just blindly does the same things, no matter the gun, just because that's what they've been told.


J.C.