Ball Powder Replacement for IMR4895


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spencerhut
July 16, 2007, 10:41 AM
I load .223 (AR and Bolt), .308 (M1A) and .30-06 (Garand) with IMR4895. I'd like to switch to a ball powder to make loading in my progressive smoother and reduce the chance of bridging in the .223.

What BALL powder would you replace IMR4895 with?

Bullets I use:
.223 45g to 55g
.308 and .30-06 147g to 168g

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NavyLCDR
July 16, 2007, 10:47 AM
I like H335 - I use it in .223, 30-30 and 8mm Lebel. I have never used BL-C(2) but a lot of reloaders like it as well and Hodgdon's website says it was the military powder used in .308 loads.

I load .223 with 55gr cheap bullets and they are fairly accurate with a light load of 23.0 gr H335 in my 1:9 twist rate AR-15.

45ACPUSER
July 16, 2007, 11:03 AM
Ramshot TAC

Khornet
July 16, 2007, 12:27 PM
Winchester 748

spencerhut
July 16, 2007, 12:28 PM
H335 and BL-C(2) is an option, I'd really like to use just one powder for the .223 and .30 cal, if I can.

Ramshot TAC, Have you actually used it in .223 and .308? Hows it working out?

byf43
July 16, 2007, 01:21 PM
Winchester 748 is a good powder for use in both .223 and .30-'06, although, I don't use 748 in my AR. (I use H-335).



For .30-'06, I use 47.7 gr of 748 and a Sierra 168 gr BTHP with really good results in my Garand.
This load is one that the NRA recommended years ago.

spencerhut
July 16, 2007, 01:52 PM
More votes for H335 and Win 748. Perhaps I'm going to end up with a couple of powders. No big deal.
I sent an e-mail to Ramshot to ask about their powder choices for .223, .308 and .30-06. I'll let everyone know if they have some sage advise to add to the discussion.

ftierson
July 16, 2007, 02:02 PM
H335, BL-C2, AA2460, and others of that burning rate should all work well in both 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm (assuming 45-62 gr bullets in 5.56mm and 130-168 gr bullets in 7.62x51mm)...

You might also pick up some WC846 if you can find it for a decent price...

Forrest

SlamFire1
July 16, 2007, 03:40 PM
AA2520 is a ball powder, used to be very popular on the firing line. I was told by Accurate Arms that they played with the pressure curve so it was equivalent to IMR 4895.

In my testing similiar charge weights for AA2520 and IMR 4895 do produce remarkably similiar velocities in my 308, 30-06 and .223. AA2520 was very popular in the late 80's in the M1a. I have been using up my extra kegs of the stuff in a .223 match rifle and it is very accurate. Last three hundred yard clean was a 100-5X. Good enough for me.

The main compliant I have about ball powders is that they don't give much warning before blowing primers, and depending on the lot of AA2520, I have to scrub the residue off the AR bolt. Funny thing to me, the Chinese made AA2520 is cleaner than my Czech made AA2520.

spencerhut
July 16, 2007, 03:46 PM
the Chinese made AA2520 is cleaner than my Czech made AA2520.

Chinese made? We buy powder from the Chinese now too? :barf:

AA2520 Is now on the short list

NuJudge
July 16, 2007, 05:49 PM
Relative burning rates change, depending on a lot of things, but they are a tool.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~stargate/powder/powder.htm
http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html
http://stevespages.com/table3.html
http://www.gswagner.com/bigreloading/components/powderburnrate.html

CDD

ArchAngelCD
July 16, 2007, 05:51 PM
Hodgdon H4895

Jim Watson
July 16, 2007, 06:04 PM
I have shot some AA2520 and it gave velocity comparable to 4895 or Varget. Not as accurate in all guns, though.

As to Chinese vs Czech, AA is bad about issuing specs and taking bids from all over the world. You will get a powder with the same label as last year but it is not the same stuff. They have sourced powder from Israel, USA, Czech Rep., Communist China, and RSA that I know of.

spencerhut
July 16, 2007, 06:11 PM
Thanks for the input guys. I just ordered a couple of pounds of H335 along with some other stuff from Powder Valley. I'll try the 748 next if the H335 doesn't work out.

spencerhut
July 16, 2007, 06:12 PM
As to Chinese vs Czech, AA is bad about issuing specs and taking bids from all over the world. You will get a powder with the same label as last year but it is not the same stuff. They have sourced powder from Israel, USA, Czech Rep., Communist China, and RSA that I know of.

:barf:Uh . . . I won't be buying any AA powder:barf:

mc223
July 16, 2007, 06:41 PM
When you get your 748, be sure to use Rem 7-1/2 or Fed primers. WSRs will pierce when shooting in higher ambient temps at near max loads. Like over 80F. I would do the work on the powder measure to stop the bridging and use the Hodgdon Extreme powders. H4895 and Varget will perform very well without the temp sensitivity.

SlamFire1
July 17, 2007, 09:50 AM
Chinese made? We buy powder from the Chinese now too? AA2520 Is now on the short list

I have no doubt that some ammunition that our Soldiers are using in Iraq has Chinese powder. Why do I say that, well I remember Congress giving some General grief over the procurement of Chinese made Berets. He was just following their procurement rules, cheapest bidder, etc.

The contractor running Lake City has to follow a contract and its rules. Unless that contract has a "buy American" clause, he is free to buy whatever he needs from whomever. And since very little manufacturing is left in the US, where you gonna buy?

Wish I knew where to find the contract bid documents for LC . Would be an interesting read.

nitesite
July 17, 2007, 11:14 AM
use the Hodgdon Extreme powders. H4895 and Varget will perform very well without the temp sensitivity.

They are well worth looking into. My use of Varget, however, leads me to believe that it doesn't meter very well at all. Hodgdon Extreme powders are, however, less sensitive to heat and cold and show very little change in pressures and velocities throughout all temperature ranges. They do not require magnum primers even in very cold ambient temperatures.

Don't forget to consider Hodgdon H322, one of the Extreme Powders that is cut very short to meter beautifully.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/nitesite9/H322.jpg

Adventurer_96
July 17, 2007, 08:19 PM
TAC, TAC & TAC!

It meters exceptionally well and is more accurate in my M14 than 748 (good accuracy) or 3031 (great accuracy). 168gr Sierra HPBT consistently sub-MOA, LC match brass w/Federal match primer, shot it in service rifle when I shot M14s.

TAC is also the choice of many of the AR-shooting service rifle guys out here, too. That alone was the reason I went with it at first, and haven't looked back. For price, I may order some bulk surplus 844 or 846, but this will be my primary powder for .308, and it will be well-used in .223.

Its accuracy is really great, working from smaller bullets in the AR up to the heavier ones, although I'm not sure of the grains exactly for the 600-yd loads. Plus, it's advertised as being less affected by outside temperatures, giving more consistent chamber pressures & performances across a broad spectrum of temperatures. Important in a place where you can shoot in the snow or greater than 100 degrees, depending on the season.

Can you tell I like it?

Clark
July 19, 2007, 01:02 AM
I bought 32 pounds of surplus IMR4895.
I used it for years before I figured out that my batch of bulk powder was actually closer to canister H322.

How I figured that out, finally, was that the chrono and pressure signs were not agreeing with Quick load unless I called it H322.

What does it all mean?
If a guy is not too alert, he could use H322 for years and THINK he had IMR4895.

nitesite
July 20, 2007, 09:33 PM
What about H414?

ftierson
July 21, 2007, 03:00 AM
I really like H414, but it is certainly a fair amount slower than IMR4895...

So, the quick answer is, No...

Forrest

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