[gomer]

This looks like a case of some people really over reacting to me.
http://www.al.com/news/press-register/index.ssf?/base/news/118466401148560.xml&coll=3&thispage=1

Tuesday, July 17, 2007By RON COLQUITTStaff Reporter
Mobile police said they plan to arrest a man today who scared people Friday evening as he walked through a Spring Hill neighborhood with a loaded, semiautomatic AK-47-style rifle.

Officers confiscated the rifle Friday but could not take the man into custody until they had a warrant signed by both a magistrate and the man who made the complaint, Mobile police spokesman Officer Eric Gallichant said.

Gallichant said that on Monday, a magistrate signed a warrant for a charge of disorderly conduct, and officers expected to obtain the signature of one of the witnesses today. Once that is done, the man will be arrested, he said Gallichant said, however, that he would not release the man's name Monday because officers had not yet obtained the second signature needed to activate the warrant.

While it is not illegal to carry an assault rifle, it is against the law to use the gun to alarm people, Gallichant said.

"I think it is important that people understand that although he may not be specifically charged with carrying a weapon out in the open like that, just the act of doing so can cause public alarm, which is covered by disorderly conduct," Gallichant said.

"Carrying one around in that manner in the neighborhood, even though he did not point it at someone, is not to be taken lightly."

The man who had the gun lives on Oakwood Lane, Gallichant said.

Jeferey Quinelly, another Spring Hill resident, filed the complaint and most likely will be the person to sign the arrest warrant, Gallichant said.

Spring Hill resident Sean P. Costello said the man, who is in his early 20s, was spotted by several people about 6 p.m. Friday, walking along Oakwood and Dilston lanes.

Costello said Monday that he did not see the man, but two of his neighbors and his gardener did. He said that although no one saw the man point the rifle at anyone, people were frightened. He said the gardener, who had just started cutting the grass, was so frightened that he fled without finishing the job.

Costello said the whole incident frightened his 4-year-old daughter.

Even though the man didn't threaten anyone or point the rifle at them, such incidents can lead to violence, Costello said.

"When you've got someone walking up and down the street with a loaded assault rifle ... there is always the possibility that it can get out of hand, and people can get hurt," he said.

Larry McCoy, owner of Larry's Gun Shop in the 2700 block of Pleasant Valley Road just off Government Boulevard, said Monday that he sells a Romanian-made, AK-47-style weapon for $400.

McCoy said federal law states that a person 18 or older who is not a convicted felon can legally purchase a semiautomatic assault rifle.

Anyone who meets the federal requirements can be in and out of his shop within 10 minutes, armed with an AK-47-style weapon and bullets.

McCoy said, however, that he will not sell an assault rifle to anyone under 21 because he does not believe a teenager is mature enough to handle such a weapon. He said the Spring Hill incident disturbs him.

"It is not socially acceptable," McCoy said. "You just don't do that."




EDIT: Here is the email for the newspaper newsroom@press-register.com

[trueblue1776]

Sounds about right to me, if I saw a guy with a loaded AK in front of my house I'd call the cops too.

Larry McCoy, owner of Larry's Gun Shop in the 2700 block of Pleasant Valley Road just off Government Boulevard, said Monday that he sells a Romanian-made, AK-47-style weapon for $400.

And he's a damn good guy too.

[tmajors]

Thank the media for this. I regularly carried my rifle slung on my shoulder around when I was a kid. Didn't bother anyone at all not 20 years ago.

[gomer]

What if he was walking from a friend's house back to his house after a range trip? Wouldn't this open the door for me to be arrested walking across the street to my favorite dove field this fall?

[Sindawe]

He said the gardener, who had just started cutting the grass, was so frightened that he fled without finishing the job.I wonder, did said gardener also soil himself while fleeing in abject terror?

Frelling sheep.... :banghead:

trueblue1776, pardon my ignorance of the AK-47 but how does one determine if the weapon is loaded or not by casual glance?

[ceetee]

Can I have the newspaper editors arrested? After all, I'm very alarmed and frightened by the stories they're printing regarding the erosion of my rights...

[doubleg]

It amazes my that people under 21 are not mature enough to handle a semi-automatic rifle but the minimum age to enlist in the military is 17.

"O.K. son, by all means join the military and use fully automatic and burst assault rifles to shoot at insurgents, but you can't buy a pack of Marlboro's."

Does anyone else realize how RIDICULOUS the laws are nowadays? :confused:

[romma]

Even though the man didn't threaten anyone or point the rifle at them, such incidents can lead to violence, Costello said.
:scrutiny:

Um, a lot of different things can lead to violence...

"I think it is important that people understand that although he may not be specifically charged with carrying a weapon out in the open like that, just the act of doing so can cause public alarm, which is covered by disorderly conduct," Gallichant said.


Isn't carrying a rifle in a supposedly non-threatening manner specifically what he was doing?

What exactly was he doing that was disorderly? Was he twirling in circles balancing the implement on his nose??

Oh, Mcoy should be sued for age discrimination too!

[fletcher]

If I saw someone walking by with an AK over the shoulder, I'd probably take interest because it's unusual, but surely wouldn't call the police.


"It is not socially acceptable," McCoy said. "You just don't do that."

Hrm. I wonder why...

[TallPine]

He said the gardener, who had just started cutting the grass, was so frightened that he fled without finishing the job.

He probably thought it was the INS :D

[romma]

"It is not socially acceptable," McCoy said. "You just don't do that."

You can't do that because I said so! I'm telling Mom on you!

[Cosmoline]

What exactly was he doing that upsets people so much? From what I can tell, he didn't threaten anyone with it. So why are these people afraid?

As to the gun shop owner, I have to wonder why he's selling firearms if he'd be afraid of them in someone's hands.

And he's a damn good guy too.

He's a damn *SOMETHING*, that's for sure.

[mechdriver]

Can I have the newspaper editors arrested? After all, I'm very alarmed and frightened by the stories they're printing regarding the erosion of my rights...

And their support of Rosie, Al Gore, Jesse Jackson, Hillary Clinton......

What happened to unbiased reporting of the news?


Also, I wonder if the people in this neighborhood run inside when they see a dog/fast car/motorcycle/someone carrying a baseball bat, etc.
All of these things 'could be dangerous'.

No crime was committed here. Return his property and leave him alone.

[PAshooter]

It's legal for me to carry a rifle.

If some ninny sees me and gets scared, now, suddenly it's illegal for me to carry a rifle.

Exactly what action have I taken which constitutes a crime?

[MrPeter]

Yes, that's very interesting that if you're not 21 you can't handle "such a weapon" but you can enlist (as was mentioned earlier) at 17. No cigarettes or booze though.

Sometimes I think these laws are so backwards. It really does make me sad.

FWIW I walk from my car to my house back and forth (parked on the street sometimes) with uncased AK GPWASRS slung on my shoulder all the time, and with my 6" GP-100 holstered on my hip in a very liberal neighborhood and have never had a comment made. I'm sure of two things:

1) If I decided to walk to a friend's house with those on my back people would not call the cops. Why would they now if they haven't before?

2) They would not be able to determine if it was loaded or not. They could guess based on whether there was a magazine in the gun or not, but they wouldn't actually know.

[Sindawe]

Exactly what action have I taken which constitutes a crime?Frightening the livestock of your betters. :scrutiny:

[jlbraun]

pardon my ignorance of the AK-47 but how does one determine if the weapon is loaded or not by casual glance?

I think what he meant was that the magazine was inserted.

And it could also just have been an Airsoft AK as well.

[BigRobT]

From Packing.org:

Attorney General Graddick on March 22, 1984 issued opinion 84-00205 to the District Attorney of Butler County Alabama. That opinion stated that a person while on foot could openly carry a firearm on his/her person without a permit of any kind. The firearm had to be visible and all restrictions applied as those that applied to holders of a Concealed Carry permit. Title 14 –175 states that “No person shall carry a pistol in any vehicle …” So if you open carry and you want to get into a vehicle you must unload and secure the firearm or you are in violation of the law.

You can open carry while afoot but must unload and secure the firearm when you get in a vehicle.


So, one CAN open carry while afoot, however, it appears that the law will get him on some other "offense". Seems kind of ridiculous to me. "If we can't get a person one way, we'll figure out how to get them in another fashion". :rolleyes:

[crebralfix]

Unfortunately, people become afraid if you "raise your voice" or "make a fist"...or get in an argument. It's "sexual harassment" if they don't like the joke or just want to get some time off.

The ninnies think they have a right to security and our government (through the MSM) is perpetuating that fiction.

[Gun Wielding Maniac]

McCoy said, however, that he will not sell an assault rifle to anyone under 21 because he does not believe a teenager is mature enough to handle such a weapon. He said the Spring Hill incident disturbs him.

"It is not socially acceptable," McCoy said. "You just don't do that."



This dude is pathetic. He is insulting tens of thousands of US servicement... not to mention millions of ordinary americans who certainly ARE sensible enough to have weapons. If you are sensible enough to drive a car, then you are sensible enough to own a rifle.

No, he ISNT a "good guy". He's also giving ammunition to our lapdog media.

[ProficientRifleman]

"I think it is important that people understand that although he may not be specifically charged with carrying a weapon out in the open like that, just the act of doing so can cause public alarm, which is covered by disorderly conduct," Gallichant said.

"Carrying one around in that manner in the neighborhood, even though he did not point it at someone, is not to be taken lightly."


Ok, ladies and gentleman, in case you don't get it. Someone saw him walking down the street minding his own business, and...... felt bad.

The police/magistrate response? Typical...I will paraphrase,

"I am the only one in this room PROFESSIONAL ENOUGH......"

[azredhawk44]

I'm disgusted by this too.

I was tempted a couple weeks ago to ride my bicycle to the pistol range for some weekend shooting (My truck was in for some warranty work over the weekend). I decided against it purely due to sheeple-ism.

Terrible.

[doubleg]

This is why I carry my rifles in one of those over sized baseball bat bags.

[yongxingfreesty]

i believe here in texas, you can walk up and down any street with a rifle/shotgun as long as it's pointed up in the air and at no one. i wouldn't do it, but anyone could.

i dont get what the big deal is.

[FieroCDSP]

There has got to be some kind of suit this guy can file against that person. They obviously didn't know the law, and if they are so freakin paranoid about someone OC, they they should move to France where they'll fit in with the other sheep. A guy, walking down the street, minding his own business, is not Disturbing the peace, or inducing panic, or any other claim. The Magistrate should be canned. You don't sign a warant because someone is upset, particularly when the Law already covers it.

[JaxNovice]

I am going to be in the minority here, but this guy was an idiot. Just because you can do something does not mean you should. Asking for trouble. There is a difference in walking out of a field after dove hunting w/ a SxS and walking through a residential neighborhood with an assault rifle. Was he legally allowed to do so? Of course. Was it insensitive and stupid. You bet.

[Ithaca37]

McCoy said, however, that he will not sell an assault rifle to anyone under 21 because he does not believe a teenager is mature enough to handle such a weapon.

Wow. What a tool. I don't live down there, but I sure as hell wouldn't do business with somebody like that.

As for carrying the gun openly, what is the big deal? I would think it was odd (only because nobody does it here), but call the cops? No way. If he was harassing or threatening people, call the cops. However, the article specifically states that he was doing nothing illegal and not threatening anybody. People are too excitable today, show a gun in public and they get all :what:

The country would be safer if we all toted guns openly and people got over the idea that people with guns are going to rob, murder, and plunder.

[PAshooter]

I am going to be in the minority here, but this guy was an idiot. Just because you can do something does not mean you should. Asking for trouble. There is a difference in walking out of a field after dove hunting w/ a SxS and walking through a residential neighborhood with an assault rifle. Was he legally allowed to do so? Of course. Was it insensitive and stupid. You bet.

I don't really think you'll get too much argument here that it wasn't a particularly bright thing to do. That's not the point... in fact you made the correct point: "Was he legally allowed to do so? Of course."

Then why is he being charged with a crime?

[Cosmoline]

Vagrancy, disorderly conduct and similar laws have long been used as catch-alls by corrupt LEO's to enforce their personal will. The most notorious examples are of course where cops use such broad laws to eliminate dark skinned people and anyone else who's upsetting the neighbors. This is more of the same thing. There's no law being violated, but people who can afford gardeners are upset so the law must act.

I sure hope this fellow challenges the arrest.

[Ithaca37]

The most notorious examples are of course where cops use such broad laws to eliminate dark skinned people and anyone else who's upsetting the neighbors.

I was just think about that. All it takes is to say that a particular person is making you feel threatened and the gestapo will come and remove them for you? Thats just crazy. Works real nice for those with prejudice.

[BBQJOE]

Now if he was in full ninja garb or wearing rags and a turbin yelling something about Allah or revenge............
But not just walking with a rifle.

[Henry Bowman]

McCoy said, however, that he will not sell an assault rifle to anyone under 21 because he does not believe a teenager is mature enough to handle such a weapon. He said the Spring Hill incident disturbs him.

"It is not socially acceptable," McCoy said. "You just don't do that." ...Affirming the adage that the purpose of getting an FFL is not to sell guns or make money. It is to tell people "No."

[Shifty]

devils advocate here, but from that article, we have no idea what the guys state of mind was. what if he was some borderline psycho walking around trying to get attention, and acted like an ass when confronted by the police??

what if there was no shootable land around, the guy was a stranger, acting shifty, and pacing up and down the street?? hell i'd give the police a call too. thats their decision as to whether or not a crime is being commited.

and yea, he could have been a normal guy walking to a buddies house, and minding his own business, who got harrassed by some overzealous cop. but none of us were there.

and about the gunshop owner..... thats his right. and i mostly agree. but then again, i dont think most teenagers should be allowed to drive either.

honestly, there are a whole lot of people that can legally purchase and own firearms that just scare the hell out of me. but there is no way to screen these people without trampling on the rights of the rest of us......... so if an individual gun store owner has an age bias and makes them prove themselves before he will sell them a firearm then more power to him.

[McKnife]

When I purchased my first rifle, a Mosin Nagant M44, from the Houston High-Caliber Gun Show, I had to walk 6 blocks through crowded downtown sidewalks with this amazing battle-rifle slung over my shoulder to get back to my car.

6 BLOCKS THROUGH DOWNTOWN HOUSTON!:D:what:

I got looks, mostly smiles. Perhaps most knew there was a gun show in town?

I even had people ask to see it, of which I did not feel comfortable doing.

Even the cops I passed didnt seem to care... I wasn't doing anything illegal.

[Zoogster]

If something is legal, but if anyone is disturbed it becomes illegal as a disturbance of the peace.

So can they prosecute women for wearing skimpy clothing? That can sure cause a disturbance.

Anyone with a T-shirt that says something obscene, that could disturb the peace.

Perhaps someone excercising thier freedom of speech in a place that most disagree with what they are saying should be arrested for disturbing the peace.

Another one of those catch all laws that undo the purpose of having individual laws. It suddenly becomes discretionary whether your legal activites should be allowed or not, even if protected by law.

[Cosmoline]

what if he was some borderline psycho walking around trying to get attention, and acted like an ass when confronted by the police??

I suspect they would have thrown far more serious charges at him if he'd challenged the police or appeared to actually threaten anyone directly. Those matters are covered by real laws. Their reliance on a vague catch-all strongly suggests they couldn't bring a real case against him for actually *doing* anything illegal.

It's pretty simple. If he's not actually doing something that's specifically illegal, he should not be arrested. Even if he looks weird or whatever. The police are not there to arrest people who look strange who happen to be carrying long arms. If they were, I would have been arrested long ago.

[Joe Demko]

I had to walk 6 blocks through crowded downtown sidewalks with this amazing battle-rifle slung over my shoulder to get back to my car.

6 BLOCKS THROUGH DOWNTOWN HOUSTON!

I seriously doubt you "had" to. See there are things like boxes,wrapping paper, or carrying cases that would easily have permitted you to carry it in a non-descript form.

As for the ass running around the neighborhood with an AK-clone, I think he wanted some attention and he got it. Call me paranoid or anti-liberty if you like, but I live in a rather quiet residential neighborhood with no shootable property anywhere close. If I see some clown, especially one who doesn't live here, walking around with a weapon, he is damned sure going to get all the attention he can stand. The only exception to that would be during a state of emergency; and then if the AK-toter didn't belong to the neighborhood he'd really get some attention.

[mbt2001]

On the face of it, someone walking around with an AK, I can see why he got arrested. Maybe it was jusified, maybe not, that is for his lawyer, the DA and the jury to find out.

The cops did their job. The came out, saw an idiot walking around with an AK and not knowing anything about said idiot, did what they could to keep the peace.

Beyond that, who knows.

When I purchased my first rifle, a Mosin Nagant M44, from the Houston High-Caliber Gun Show, I had to walk 6 blocks through crowded downtown sidewalks with this amazing battle-rifle slung over my shoulder to get back to my car.

6 BLOCKS THROUGH DOWNTOWN HOUSTON!

I got looks, mostly smiles. Perhaps most knew there was a gun show in town?

I even had people ask to see it, of which I did not feel comfortable doing.

Even the cops I passed didnt seem to care... I wasn't doing anything illegal.

+1... I love Texas and more than that, Houston is a great town. Most people are low key, like guns or at least know enough to remember FIRST this is Texas and SECOND, strange as it may seem, they like it that way.

[Ohio Rifleman]

Email addresses for the gun shop owner or police chief? Maybe we could flood their inboxes! :evil:

[Ithaca37]

The cops did their job.

If that man's possession of a firearm in public qualifies as a disturbance of the peace, what of the cops who carry handguns everywhere they go? How is that any different? And don't say training because we all know their training is a joke.

Email addresses for the gun shop owner or police chief? Maybe we could flood their inboxes!

+1

[JohnBT]

My guess is some of the neighbors knew him and didn't trust him - gun or no gun.

John

[RNB65]

I agree with John. There's probably more to this story than what's contained in the article. Perhaps this guy was known to the locals as a troublemaker. My neighbors know that I'm an avid shooter and if they saw me walking down the street with a rifle, they'd just wave and say hello. Who knows...

[MK11]

If someone posted one of those "What If" scenarios around here that said, "Man walks up to you while carrying rifle. Doesn't say anything or threaten you but he his holding it" the universal response would be to draw and challenge him, with quite a few responses talking about blowing him away immediately, because "that's how you handled it in the good old days."

But now those same people are offended that somebody called the cops and this guy is getting charged? I'm just waiting for the post that says this whole episode is Bill Clinton's fault.

[Norm357]

I live in Atlanta, If I saw someone in the street with an AK, I would call the cops too.

If I lived in the country, probably not.

[SSN Vet]

Exactly what action have I taken which constitutes a crime?

Frightening the livestock of your betters.


Bingo!

[glockman19]

I'd bet the charges get dropped. He was within his rights and the law. Just another example of People Neighbore & LEO's run amuck. Most LEO's I know would have checked to see he was the owner of the firearm and after confirmation it was his would have let him go.

[Mannix]

devils advocate here, but from that article, we have no idea what the guys state of mind was. what if he was some borderline psycho walking around trying to get attention, and acted like an ass when confronted by the police??

He was exercising his right to do something legal. If it was illegal, fine, lock him up(though I disagree with the law), but it's legal in Alabama to carry a long rifle on your person in public. I do not think it's right that he was arrested on some BS catch all charge. Making people feel unsafe while doing something legal should not be a crime(some people feel unsafe because we can legally own guns).

[MinnMooney]

Costello said the whole incident frightened his 4-year-old daughter.

That's right... bring the little kidlets into it for more spectacularisation! Kids usually take on their parents emotions during various incidents so I'd bet that the "frightedned" reaction was parent induced.

I carry various uncased loaded and unloaded rifles, shotguns and pistols up and down my rural road every week from my house to where I practice about a quarter of a mile away. Cars (some with little kiddies in them) pass me all the time. They'll wave or stop and chit-chat. Most of the time they don't even ask about the gun that I'm carrying.

*** Mountain out of a mole hill. ***

[bruss01]

Although I'm VERY pro-gun-rights, I have to confess to being somewhat torn on this issue.

The story in question, I don't believe the guy did anything illegal nor morally wrong, HOWEVER...

If I see someone walking in my quiet residential neighborhood, who I DON'T KNOW...

Number one, I don't know his state of mind or mental capacity. He could be an escapee from the nut-hatch, a developmentally disabled adult, someone who is having a breakdown or got a bad batch of medication, John Rambo having a flashback - these things I DON'T KNOW.

Number two, I don't know if he's responsible. Does he know the 4 rules? Does he consistently obey them? Does he know how much penetrating power the rifle he's holding is capable of? These things I DON'T KNOW.

Number three, Is it loaded? If I can see a magazine inserted, I have to assume it is loaded. Why isn't it in a case? The only reason you'd need it out of a case is if you intend to use it. Does he intend to use it, HERE in this residential neighborhood? These things I DON'T KNOW!

If I saw a man with an AK wandering the streets of my neighborhood, out of the case, magazine inserted, someone not known to me, I owe it to myself and my neighbors to make sure there is not a problem, and sad to say the safest way to do that is to call the police and let THEM do the question asking. I really really HATE that, but I'm not about to take my chances finding out whether he's a maniac who just killed his wife and is just itching for someone else to get in his way.

That said, I think the police should have talked to the guy, made an impression on how alarming his behavior was to the neighborhood, and asked him please, out of courtesy to the neighborhood, get a case for the darn thing for toting when not in use. There have just been too many mall shootings and other incidents for the public not to take seriously the presence of a strange man with unknown intent, carrying an (apparently) loaded assault weapon in an area where that behavior is not typical or commonplace.

[B yond]

I wonder, did said gardener also soil himself while fleeing in abject terror?
A gardener who makes his own fertilizer?

Seriously though, I'd be concerned If I saw someone walking around my neighborhood with a loaded AK. I don't think he should be charged with a crime, but I do think the police should've asked him to refrain from carrying his rifle loaded and un-cased. That's a fairly high-powered round and could do a lot of damage to innocents or their property in the event of a ND.

I've got no problem with people walking around with loaded pistol-caliber weapons as long as they're being responsible. For the safety of my family, I'd like to keep the high-powered weapons unloaded unless they're actually being used.

[WayneConrad]

Sounds about right to me, if I saw a guy with a loaded AK in front of my house I'd call the cops too.
I'd get my rifle too, go outside, and ask my neighbor if he needs someone to watch his back. And when did he get the nice rifle and not tell me?

[romma]

My how the tide has turned in this thread.

Bottom line, he did nothing illegal. Talk to him, run the weapon if you must, suggest a firearm case, and if you don't like that, contact your legislator to change the law!!

[Geno]

That's it...I'm declaring war on all of the social misfits who would intimidate us...

the next plummer who bends over and scares me with that "crack", I'm callin' the cops...

and the next ugly-woman-in-a-bikini, at the beach, I'm callin' the cops...

finally, the next fool who assaults me with his blowing horn while in traffic, I'm calling the cops.

If the only criteria is for me to be a spineless piece of poultry feces, then let's get with having all of society arrested.

Seriously now...this needs to go up to the SCOTUS. Keep and Bare Arms.

Seems pretty d@mned clear to me.

[Hokkmike]

What is entirely missing here are the "why's of carrying the gun" arond the neighborhood, although I suppose technically it doesn't make a difference. I would hate to see a subjective rationale of how threatens others felt as a determinate for whether I am criminally liable for a right guaranteed by the constitution and local/state laws.

[trueblue1776]

Ok guys, this is my neighborhood. This is not a rural area, there are no rifle ranges in walking distance. People aren't supposed to walk down the street with an AK, it's not illegal but it does bother people, myself included.

I don't pretend to understand social boundaries in other communities, so don't say is fine for G-Love to walk down my street with an AK just because no laws are broken. If you walk down my street with an AK, I will confront you and ask you why you need an AK while walking down my street.

The police down here are good guys, they don't hate guns. This guy wouldn't get arrested for walking around with a gun for a legit reason. They are not gestapos, they are normal guys who respond to reason.

As for people getting scared, are National Guard patrols keeping looters out of neighborhoods still fresh in your memories? How about thugs going wild because the hood hasn't had power in a month?

As for dogging Larry McCoy out, have you ever been interviewed by a reporter about your business? Would you tell a little white lie to make everybody happy? I would. I stopped by and told him I saw his name in the paper today, he said he hadn't read it yet.

[Neo-Luddite]

In some places, a baseball bat being carried would get the same results---unless you also have a mit and baseball with you as well.

It's hard to say without having been witness--the manner in which the fellow was carrying the weapon means a lot. Not disputing his right to do so--but it just sounds odd. I would have called the police, too.

That said, I've thought a couple of times about doing individual PT and going for a one man formation run with my Garand early some morning.

[jrou111]

I live near this area and have cut through those streets a few time, and can tell you that it's one of the nicer neighborhoods in Mobile, AL. Lots of big houses fairly close together. Kids outside playing type neighborhood. Something sounds weird about the whole situation.

OTOH, I think it's ridiculous that someone can be arrested even though he's not breaking any specific law. Eh, socialism - it's for the good of the people :barf:

BTW, about 3 miles away in a rougher area of Mobile, there was a bank robbery a couple months ago. The robbers had an AK-47.

[Ohio Rifleman]

The only reason you'd need it out of a case is if you intend to use it

I will confront you and ask you why you need an AK while walking down my street.

Starting to sound like antis here, trying to justify his NEED. Did any of you NEED the last gun you purchased?

[rino451]

If I see someone walking in my quiet residential neighborhood, who I DON'T KNOW...

There the rub right there. Man, many neighborhoods or neighborhoods or people who don't know each other. Furthermore, very few of us know each other above and beyond the casual first name and maybe a wave while mowing the lawn or passing them in your car. We behave like strangers, apparently we like to narc on each other as if we strangers, and the courts/LE community in dealing with our BS that we can't deal with ourselves :barf: are happy to deal with us individually like strangers.

[Joe Demko]

Starting to sound like antis here, trying to justify his NEED. Did any of you NEED the last gun you purchased?

No, it doesn't; and even if it did, that would make no difference. You're engaging in a logical fallacy called "poisoning the well."
What he is questioning is the clown's need to be walking around a residential neighborhood with a loaded AK, not the clown's need to own the AK.

[Zoogster]

but I do think the police should've asked him to refrain from carrying his rifle loaded and un-cased.
Some places it is illegal to carry a concealed firearm even if it is concealed in a bag. A locked case is often different, but walking someplace with an obvious firearm unready for use is a good way to get it robbed from you. They are not only often valuable, but are desired by criminals. This means someone with a firearm they cannot use is a pretty ripe target.

People mention carrying them in bags, gym bags, and other non secure containers to intentional make it impossible to recognize as a firearm. That is specificly illegal many places. It is not locked in a case, yet is concealed, and not only concealed, but intentionaly concealed for the purpose of carrying it without being recognized as carrying a firearm. I don't know about Alabama, but I know several places that is breaking the law.

So if carrying it concealed and not secured in a locking container is illegal, and carrying it openly gets one arrested, carrying a rifle on foot becomes a pretty difficult thing to do. Can you sling a bulky rigid locking gun case over your shoulder and transport it far? In a non rigid case but obviously a gun case, or in a locking case, do you like everyone, criminals included, noticing you have a valuable firearm incapable of being used and ready for the taking?

If the legal options are unusable in a case but clearly a firearm to all others (and also harder to transport on foot) including Bubba fresh on parole, or safely slung over a shoulder yet capable of being used to repel/deter the criminal element taking notice, I think the second option would be safer to the individual. An unusuable firearm is not a deterent, is not just a paper weight, it is a magnet to others, especialy those that cannot buy firearms.

Now it is unusual and all those nearby should take notice of someone walking with a rifle. Even be capable of defending themselves or others if necessary (which they should be anyways.) If it seems out of place, call the police and they can investigate. HOWEVER if it is all legit and legal and after dealing with the police they find no problems, he in no way should be arrested or charged.

Imagine police approaching someone with a rifle to begin with. They are extra cautious about rifles, and if the tense situation progressed without incident, he was probably very level headed in dealing with the police. He is then arrested?

[trueblue1776]

Starting to sound like antis here, trying to justify his NEED. Did any of you NEED the last gun you purchased?

If you see somebody running would you ask them where the fire is?

Call me an "anti", I'm an anti-guy-walking-down-my-street-with-an-AK-in-the-middle-of-the-day.

Walking around the city with an AK is like farting in church.

[Ohio Rifleman]

walking around a residential neighborhood with a loaded AK, not the clown's need to own the AK.

It's the same kind of thing, as far as I'm concerned. Why do you NEED to walk around with a loaded handgun? He was just exercising his rights under the Second Amendment.

[Elza]

One statement said that he was walking through the neighborhood the other said he was walking up and down the street.

If I saw someone “walking up and down the street” I would defiantly keep an eye on him. If he was “walking through the neighborhood” he wouldn’t rate a second glance from me.

However all of this is immaterial. Everyone should know that "It is not socially acceptable," McCoy said.tops a Constitutional right! :fire::banghead:

[FortyCalGlock]

I don't have a problem with the neighbor calling the police on this guy. It is not common for someone to walk down the street with an AK, mag inserted. Maybe this guy was exercising his rights or looking for attention, I don't know. The police checking the situation out is fine by me.

I DO have a problem with trumped up charges and arrests for no reason. Judges are supposed to be rational thinkers, and this one must have had a few drinks before signing the arrest warrant. Bad judge, hopefully no reelection for you. I undestand there are many grey areas of the law, but this isn't one of them.:barf:

[fletcher]

Walking around the city with an AK is like farting in church.

Meaning, you can't help it?


:neener:


Also, a question to those who would call the police in such a situation - would you do the same if he were openly carrying a pistol?

[Geno]

If someone walked down my street with a firearm, I would NOT call the police. It is legal per the Constitution. Now, if he started pointing it at houses, that is different. But, to have it hanging from a sling, or in his hand walking and carrying it, I say big whoopity.

You all know what, given the division here, I better understand why Washington does as it d@amned well pleases! We can't even agree here at THR to a simple Constitutional matter of carry in open, regardless of the law. If it's unlawful, that law is UNconstitutional! We, my friends, are screwed! Come next election, you may as well just turn in your arms, because you're playing right into the gun-grab laws in their gun-grab plan.

Oh, and regarding the statement, "Walking around the city with an AK is like farting in church.", that is precisely what the left wants you to feel. If they can beat you down, they have you beat. That sentiment is demonstrative of being beaten. The fact is, our founding father wanted for our keeping and baring arms to being as-normal-as waking in the morning…it’s just something a man has to do every day of life, and so long as you’re alive you do it.

Re: McCoy's comments that he "...does not sell an assault rifle to anyone under 21 because he does not believe a teenager is mature enough to handle such a weapon. He said the Spring Hill incident disturbs him", remind me to never buy from him.

We can send 18-year-olds to war with M16s, M60s, etc, but they can't come home on leave and purchase and carry an AK? That is a good example of ignorance, and of a failure to think and rationalize before speaking. People like this are the reason I have made sure to buy all of the classifications of firearms that some here seem content to allow the liberals to take away. I have them purchased already for my 12-year-old for when she turns 18!!!

[david_the_greek]

but its reasons like this that I walk with my guns in public...... I can't help but want to go get my AR this very minute in fact:D

[Feanaro]

Another one of those rights we crow over, until it gets into our comfort zone.

[ID_shooting]

I am appauled at the comments of some of you who would confront someone walking dow the street, any street with an AK. Public street? What business is it of yours? Some day when I am chugging down the sidewalk with an AK, 870, or a bolt gun on my shoulder and some munch comes out of his house and confronts me, I will tell him, very plainly to "get bent!" and keep walking. I come on YOUR land, you can question me, till then, "don't bother me, I'm walking."

You call your selves "supporters of frreedom?" Yopu just proved you are no better than any liberal, socialist, anti-Constitution gun grabber out there.

In this case, the cops WAY over reacted. If he was rude or beligerant, the cops would simply have shot him. You think they would really not draw down on some fool with an AK acting like a putz? The simple fact that he is not ventalated says that he was peacfull. At best, the cops should have offered him a ride to where he was going and ask him to use a legal case next time.

Don't even get me started on this jerk that thinks he should make up his own gun laws for people under 21

[Elza]

FortyCalGlock: Judges are supposed to be rational thinkers,That’s a joke, right? :D

[hornadylnl]

I think the guys posting on here that say this guy shouldn't be able to walk down the street with his ak must be Zumbo's alternate personalities.

[budder]

Walking around the city with an AK is like farting in church.
Meaning, you can't help it?
No, he means lots of fun!

[xilch]

Doc2005: Here Here! Agreed!

For the record, my 4 year old daughter would be more curious what kind of gun it was instead of being terrorized. She's constantly telling me, "Daddy, I like that gun!"

:)

This story and thread remind me a lot of that new Scion commercial...

[romma]

The right to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed... Unless it's not in a case of course... ;)

[trueblue1776]

I think the guys posting on here that say this guy shouldn't be able to walk down the street with his ak must be Zumbo's alternate personalities.

I own battle rifles, I like battle rifles, but I have never seen anybody walking down the street with one (in the US). Can anybody understand why one would be curious about this? Am I not supposed to confront someone doing something highly unusual in vicinity of my family and neighbors?

You guys think everybody wants your gun rights. I am now a "sheeple" you guys are rich.

[gomer]

It really bothers me that they confiscated the rifle.. even though they didn't arrest him or charge him with anything at the time. What did they do, just take it from him because they wanted to and then leave?? That's crazy!!

[HiroProX]

So now someone else is responsible because the sheeple can't avoid soiling themselves and devolving into jibbering idiots out of irrational fear.

Bad law, bad cops, bad and broken system. Period.

[Ohio Rifleman]

I do wonder how this thread would be different if this guy were open carrying a handgun instead of an AK.

[SG Merc]

He may have not done anything illegal (and it sucks he got arrested), but he did do something stupid.

Folks, people like this character do nothing but threaten the second amendment. What ever happened to the line of thought that says that with great power comes great responsibility? NOTHING will turn the borderline population against guns more than being scared of walking outside because there's a fellow wandering down the street with a rifle.

All it takes is for the right person to be "offended" by someone like this and the next thing you know it'll become illegal to carry a gun that's not in a locked case.

[hornadylnl]

Good thing you guys weren't around back in the good old days. You were expected to carry your long arms to church, etc. Not much more than 50 years ago, kids carried their 22's to school hoping that they could kill dinner on the way to school or home. I make it a point not to be seen carrying my rifles to my car because of my idiot neighbors and don't want to advertise what I have, not because I'm scared I'll frighten someone.

[HiroProX]

SG Merc, the fellow was well within the bounds of law and his rights.

The real idiots were the brainless and witless "Aunt Nellies" who dropped a load in their bloomers like a bunch of frightened little minnows.

[hornadylnl]

"He may have not done anything illegal (and it sucks he got arrested), but he did do something stupid.

Folks, people like this character do nothing but threaten the second amendment. What ever happened to the line of thought that says that with great power comes great responsibility? NOTHING will turn the borderline population against guns more than being scared of walking outside because there's a fellow wandering down the street with a rifle.

All it takes is for the right person to be "offended" by someone like this and the next thing you know it'll become illegal to carry a gun that's not in a locked case."

What bothers me about the above is the attitude that even though it is legal, we must cave to the antis thinking instead of carrying out a constitutional right. When the majority decides that the act of owning a gun period is taboo, shall we all get rid of them so as not to offend the antis?

I'm sick of the cowering. Let's exorcise our rights and demand that these liberal pantywaistes grow a pair and not be afraid of inanimate objects.

[SG Merc]

SG Merc, the fellow was well within the bounds of law and his rights.

I know that, and that's why I said that it really sucks that he got the shaft from the law. But my point is that incidents like this will be highly publicized by the anti-gun crowd, and will lead to stricter laws.

I honestly don't know enough about the situation to say what the fella' could have done different/better, but we sure as heck don't need to be feeding the antis like this.

[41magsnub]

There is so much this article does not tell, such as a picture of the person carrying the rifle.

There is a big difference as far as "the scary factor" between a dude walking down the street carrying an AK47 with the magazine in it and a 12 year old kid with a marlin slung on his back.

[gomer]

I edited my initial post to add the email address of the newspaper reporting the story.
newsroom@press-register.com

[hornadylnl]

The more I frequent THR, the more I think that about 90% of the posters here are zumbo clones that are more concerned about what the antis think of us than standing up for the 2a.

Shall we censor our speech so as not to offend someone in the hopes that the 1a won't be outlawed?

[Spreadfire Arms]

this is misleading.

the original post is titled: "Man arrested for toting rifle"

however this is not accurate. the man was not arrested on the spot:
Officers confiscated the rifle Friday but could not take the man into custody until they had a warrant signed by both a magistrate and the man who made the complaint, Mobile police spokesman Officer Eric Gallichant said.


what is accurate is this:

Mobile police said they plan to arrest a man today who scared people Friday evening as he walked through a Spring Hill neighborhood with a loaded, semiautomatic AK-47-style rifle.

that means they went and presented their case to a magistrate who in turn agreed with them and issued a warrant for this person's arrest.

the responding officers did not arrest the man as evidenced in the first quote above.

what the appropriate title should be is "Man arrested pursuant to warrant after alleged to have been carrying a rifle in a manner causing alarm"

big difference there. the original title is more inflammatory than what actually transpired.

another thing is that the cops shouldn't be the ones to blame here. it appears they responded to a call from citizens. they just didn't drive by and see the man and take action by themselves:

Jeferey Quinelly, another Spring Hill resident, filed the complaint and most likely will be the person to sign the arrest warrant, Gallichant said.

Spring Hill resident Sean P. Costello said the man, who is in his early 20s, was spotted by several people about 6 p.m. Friday, walking along Oakwood and Dilston lanes.

Costello said Monday that he did not see the man, but two of his neighbors and his gardener did. He said that although no one saw the man point the rifle at anyone, people were frightened. He said the gardener, who had just started cutting the grass, was so frightened that he fled without finishing the job.

Costello said the whole incident frightened his 4-year-old daughter.


the responding police didnt arrest him. they just confiscated the rifle as evidence of a crime and presented the case to a judge who in turn had a citizen sign an affidavit stating that he was in some sort of fear by the exhibition of the firearm. the police did their job. they didn't beat him to the ground and drag him away. they responded to a citizen's call and did their job.

so if anyone here is to blame, it would be all of the citizens who were alarmed by the rifle and their own self-induced panic.

[gomer]

this is misleading.

the original post is titled: "Man arrested for toting rifle"

however this is not accurate. the man was not arrested on the spot:


I tried to change the title of the thread accordingly, but it isn't showing up.

It doesn't matter if he was arrested then or not.. what bothers me the most is that they CONFISCATED his rifle on the spot without any cause or charge!

[HiroProX]

SG Merc, when you propose limiting others based on how your opposition will precieve them, you've lost already.

I really, don't care what the Brady Bunch thinks. A right not exercised is a right lost. In the wrong on this are the nitwit nervous Nellies who soiled themselves and called the cops, and the cops willing to abuse one section of the law to infringe on another part of the law.

[hornadylnl]

Just like Americans allow the debate of illegal immigration and it's adverse affects to be silenced for fear of being called racists by the pro illegal crowd, we are choosing not to exorcise our 2a for fear of being called gun nuts, terrorists, whackos or whatever. We are letting the irrational idiots take away our freedom of speech in the case of the immigration debate and the right to keep and bear arms for fear of scaring someone.

[Mainsail]

It's OK in WA
Casad walked down the street in Port Angeles on a Saturday afternoon carrying two rifles partially wrapped in a towel. A woman called 911. Police responded, detained Casad, frisked him, and asked why he carried the weapons. Casad admitted that he was a felon, an admission that lead to his arrest and charges for unlawfully possessing the weapons. The trial court held that the police had no authority to detain Casad for a Terry1 stop and suppressed the evidence as the fruit of an unlawful seizure.
Casad challenged the police authority to detain and search him. The trial court ruled that the police did not have authority to detain Casad and, therefore, suppressed the evidence that the police found as a result of the detention. The State could not obtain a conviction without the suppressed evidence and so it dismissed its case against Casad.
The trial court held:
Here, the Defendant was carrying a rifle only partially concealed and clearly identifiable as a rifle to the citizen who made the call as well as law enforcement officers, with the barrel pointing towards the ground walking on a main thoroughfare in the City of Port Angeles in daylight hours. In fact there were two rifles, which would likely be less alarming than the carrying of one rifle. Nothing indicates that the manner in which the Defendant was carrying the weapons in any way would give reasonable cause for alarm unless the mere fact of carrying a weapon within the city limits in the open in daylight on a major thoroughfare in and of itself would cause such alarm. The statute does not and, under the Constitution, cannot prohibit the mere carrying of a firearm in public. Therefore the Court finds that the officers at the time of the initial contact had no reasonable articulable suspicion that any criminal activity was occurring.

[hornadylnl]

Hiroprox "SG Merc, when you propose limiting others based on how your opposition will precieve them, you've lost already.

I really, don't care what the Brady Bunch thinks. A right not exercised is a right lost."

You just said what I'm thinking 100 times better than what I typed. Amen.

[romma]

"He may have not done anything illegal (and it sucks he got arrested), but he did do something stupid.


Being stupid is not against the law! If that were the case, the jails would be full...

Okay, bad example... But, you know what I mean. :evil:

[engineer151515]

Living near Mobile, AL .... this story is exactly the reasoning why I bought a TENNIS BAG to cart around my AK underfolder.

Just don't need the legal bills. Threatening nobody yet disturbing the peace? Sad.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/4618/bagakbc0.jpghttp://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5512/bagkc7.jpg

[SG Merc]

Hey I'm all for not really caring what other people think, but I still handle my firearms with respect for the situation around me--mainly because I don't want to stir the pot. If "HiroProX" wants to call me out as caring too much about what the Brady Bunch thinks then so be it, but the bottom line is that these people are looking for reasons to make the mainstream population hate gun rights.

Does anybody know WHY he was carrying his gun publicly besides simply exercising his rights? Was he headed for a range or did he just want to take his AK for a walk? That would be interesting to know, and might change my mind that he was irresponsible with his weapon.

[JohnBT]

"You call your selves "supporters of frreedom?" Yopu just proved you are no better than any liberal, socialist, anti-Constitution gun grabber out there."

Sticks and stones there buddy. Write when you get out of high school and learn to hold up your end of a conversation in an adult manner.

Meanwhile, the original story said the guy lived in that area and was walking up and down the street. I promise you that if I see a person with gun in hand walking up and down my street I will call the police. I don't care if he isn't talking to himself or cursing people or making funny faces at the trees, I'm calling. I would have to assume he was looking for something or someone to shoot if he was pacing the sidewalk holding a gun in his hand.

Would this ever happen in my neighborhood? Well, yeah, I can see it.
__________________________

True story from a few years ago as told to me by my 81-year-old neighbor, the guy who held the door shut, and the cops:

Around noon one day a woman walked in front of my house and went into the 7-11 in the next block to ask the clerk to take the paper bag she had because it had a gun in it and she didn't want her boyfriend to have it because he was mad at her.

While the clerk and the customers were talking to her, the boyfriend crossed the parking lot at a brisk walk. Well, he was BUCK NAKED, so a customer held the doors shut while the clerk called the cops and the woman hid behind the counter. The NAKED GUY turned around and calmly strolled back up the street to their apartment in the next block. My neighbor saw him go both directions.

The cops said he was taking a shower when she walked out with his pistol and he wanted it back. My elderly neighbor said he looked like a little troll waddling up the street. I don't know if the cops ever gave them the gun back - slight problem with carrying a concealed weapon and something about being a drug user IIRC.

John

[hornadylnl]

Hey everyone, I have a brilliant idea. Let's all keep silent with our tongues in the hopes that it will preserve the first amendment! Would any of you seriously use that approach to help save our first amendment? Than why would you propose the same tactic for the second?

[PocketP11]

It is amazing to me how many people here would happily restrict the constitutional rights of another simply because the person is not known to them, or because they feel something shouldn't be done. Just who made you the arbiter of what someone can or cannot do, especially when the constitution specifically protects the action?

This reaction, "I would call the police too", is just as much done out of fear and selfishness as what the anti-gunners to do our gun rights in general (out of fear: "I don't know that person", "what if they have <insert crime of choice>"; out of selfishness: "their actions disturb ME, and I don't care if the actions are legal or not"). The anti-gunners would ban our guns because they are afraid of them, some here would restrict actions because they are afraid of the person (with no basis for the fear).

A right is a right, either support all rights for everyone or you have no excuse to complain if you lose your rights.

[Picknlittle]

How did they know the rifle was loaded? If I were just walking down to street to get from poi9nt A to point B the rifle would not be loaded, but how would a casual observer know that it was unloaded?


Would the reactions of the neighborhood sheep have been any different if it were a hunting rifle or shotgun slung over the shoulder of a hunter returning home from hunting with a friend half a block from his house?

[bruss01]

There's a big difference between your neighbor taking a gun to and from his truck in a case, and some guy from WHO KNOWS WHERE with an uncased rifle in his hands cruising thru your residential neighborhood. It may be legal but it's not normal and definitely qualifies as a "what's wrong with this picture" moment.

You wanna shoot an AK at the range? Fine by me. Wanna hunt with one in the woods? Ya got my blessin' brother. Keep one for home defense? Right on, man. But cruise up and down in a neighborhood where you don't live and nobody knows your state of mind, with an uncased (presumably) loaded assault weapon in your hands? No, you may not be breaking any laws but don't act so surprised when you draw some unwanted attention. Somebody is going to wonder what you're doing there, what your intentions are, and if they have an ounce of common sense they're not going to wait around to see if you ventillate any school kids or housewives before they think the situation needs some checking into. They're going to call guys who are equipped to deal with the situation if it does indeed turn out that you just murdered your overbearing boss and your harpie wife and are just waiting for someone else to get in your way or tick you off.

Now, if it turns out you've suffered a lapse of good judgement or are just a jerk who doesn't care what everybody else thinks who considers what you did alarming, should you go to jail? On the first go, no I don't think so, but if the police have to talk to you a second time about this you deserve a little something to wake you up to the disruption you are causing. If that's a ticket or a night to think about what you've done, so be it. If you don't want folks to think you're a nutjob, then don't act like one.

I'm not anti-AK, I'm not anti-RKBA, I'm pro-common sense. Sounds like this guy could've used some.

BTW - Our neighborhood is not on the way to anywhere, it's nothing but a series of dead ends and cul de sacs. If someone is there who doesn't belong, they stick out pretty obviously. My wife has spotted unknown individuals parked on the street in front of our house. After about 15 minutes, she went out to ask what he was up to. He was sullen and evasive, so she asked him to move along. He got beligerent with her and refused, so she said fine, he could explain to the cops then why he was staking out our house. She went indoors and got the cordless phone and came back to the porch where she could see him and vice versa. Apparently he decided he didn't really need to be there after all and drove off. So I guess he didn't think the cops would agree he had a good reason to be there after all. If it was some stranger from outside the neighborhood with a rifle in his hands acting strange like that, I wouldn't want her even getting near him and wouldn't blame her one bit for calling the cops to find out what's up. If you think otherwise, then you must not value your life and property and those of your neighbors much, or you've only met kind good hearted people with common sense and good will. Let me tell you, there are plenty of the other kind roaming around out there, and I for one and not taking any unnecessary chances with them.

[hornadylnl]

If the gunshop owner said what he said to throw a "bone" to the antis to make himself look better, it is all the more reason not to do business with that idiot. We don't need 2 faced idiots like him to be spokesmen for our freedoms and interests.

His response to the reporter should have been something along the lines of "So what. This is America and he was exorcizing his second amendment rights."

[Werewolf]

Tick tock - tick tock...

[hornadylnl]

You guys need to reread the article. The guy carrying the ak lives there. And this "walking up and down" statement you guys keep referring to was made by one of the complaintant neighbors, not the police. The walking up and down crap is as subjective as idiots talking about automatic revolvers when describing a gun they saw.

An earlier poster let the police off the hook and blamed the magistrate for this guy being arrested. The way the article reads is that the police very much wanted to arrest the guy but had no cause. They had the discretion to let this guy go but obviously pursued it to get a warrant.

[McKnife]

Still…sounds like a lawsuit to me. I would love to see that being the norm around here.

I’d love to walk around with an AK slung over my shoulder… or walk around the grocery store with one. I don’t really feel like getting shot by police, though.

[Werewolf]

I'm pro-common sense. ...just like so many others who use that as an excuse.

The problem is all of you who think like that have let the sheep and the antis define exactly what common sense is.

Where does it stop?

Why don't WE get to define what common sense is?

Should a person be worried if they see a guy walking around their neighborhood with an uncased rifle? Maybe? If so, then prepare for whatever you imagine may be coming next but until the guy commits a crime or appears like he is about to commit a crime calling the cops on him makes you no better than the sheep and antis you all profess to dislike so much.

Sounds like there's a lot of better safe than sorry attitude around here from those saying it was perfectly OK for the cops to arrest the guy and the sheeple to crap their pants. Y'all are the folks ole Ben Franklin had in mind when he made his trade freedom for security remark.

It makes you a bunch of two faced, double dealing hypocrites. :fire:

[General Geoff]

Another person's irrational fear does not constitute a crime on my part. End of story.

[Ohio Rifleman]

If this thread keeps going on like this, matter of time before it gets locked.

[Larry Ashcraft]

I suspect this thread isn't going to last much longer, but against my better judgement, I'm leaving it open for now.

The flaming and flame-baiting had better end right now though.

[Prince Yamato]

I own battle rifles, I like battle rifles, but I have never seen anybody walking down the street with one (in the US). Can anybody understand why one would be curious about this? Am I not supposed to confront someone doing something highly unusual in vicinity of my family and neighbors?

I'll side with you here. It's just not a socially acceptable thing to do in most parts of the country. In some areas, maybe it is. Just like it's socially acceptable for me to wear assless chaps around the streets of San Francisco with the words, "Kiss Me" on alternating cheeks. If I do it in Montgomery, Alabama, I'll probably get arrested for indecent exposure.

Another thing I notice is some people saying, "well 50 years ago, we all carried guns to school". This happens on a number of threads. This may have been common in rural areas, but I'm willing to bet people in say, Philadelphia, Salem, or Toronto, did not. And I'm also willing to bet that it wasn't that common in many less urbane areas as well, or the older folks would remember and not call the cops.

My first reaction towards the gun owner is not, "oh you poor soul, who had your 2A rights trampled on," but, "what an jerk". It's about community standards people.

[PAshooter]

Interesting thread, and passions are running high.

I'm on the fence, and don't know what I'd do if faced with a similar situation.

However, this bothers me:

It's about community standards people.

What happens when the "community standard" becomes "civilians should not be allowed to own guns"?

This guy committed no crime, threatened no one... what he did is supposed to be protected by the Constitution. Where's the line?

[hornadylnl]

Shouldn't community standards have a basis in the constitution or do you get to be the arbiter of what the standards are? I don't like looking at obese women. Should they be forced to lose weight to meet my visual standards or do they have a right to be the size that they want to be?

[pacodelahoya]

I own battle rifles, I like battle rifles, but I have never seen anybody walking down the street with one (in the US).

Apparently, you've never been around my neck of the woods when me or my neighbors are having a Campfire.

It's like show and tell at kiddygarden.:D

I've been known to carry a suppressed .22 and or a MP5.

And I do not live in the country, houses are about 50 yards apart in a residential neighborhood.

I guess it's all in where you live.

[Prince Yamato]

What happens when the "community standard" becomes "civilians should not be allowed to own guns"?

That's an excellent point. But look, the guy wasn't using the gun for self-defense. He was wandering around his neighborhood with a gun on his back, it's an odd thing to do in most parts of the country. To and from the car, who cares. Neighborhood being burned up by rioters? Sure. During peacetime, it's odd for people to walk around with rifles slung on their shoulders in most parts of the US. If you don't have immediate need for the weapon, put it in a case. If you have immediate need for it, well, use it. He didn't have an immediate need for it. He was probably doing it to intentionally cause alarm.

Come on, NONE of you would be alarmed if somebody was walking around your neighborhood with an AK?

Did he mean any physical harm? Probably not, but he was being a wiseguy by doing it. Nobody likes a wiseguy.

Incidentally, I own 3 AKs. I love the things. Probably will buy more when I get the money. If there was civil unrest, I'd gladly put them to use, but there currently isn't any. That's why you have CCW. You carry a handgun most of the time. SHTF, grab your AK.

[AntiqueCollector]

I've gotten looks but I've never been arrested or confronted for carrying a rifle in the city I'm in right now...not that I have done so very often (kind of tiring carrying a rifle as opposed to a handgun) but I do believe a right not exercised is a right soon lost...

[hornadylnl]

Here is my "beach" standard. Any women size 5 or smaller are allowed to wear bikinis. Any bigger than that, they should be covered head to toe. I would never try to enforce that standard on others. Many seem to think it would be okay for a hunting rifle or shotgun like this guy was doing but not an ak. A gun is a gun and woman is a woman, no matter the configuration. How many of you naysayers on this thread blasted Zumbo for what he said? What you are doing now is no different.

[TallPine]

I own battle rifles, I like battle rifles, but I have never seen anybody walking down the street with one (in the US).
A couple years back, we were driving through downtown Billings and there was a guy carrying an EBR on a sling. Nobody seemed to be paying any particular attention to him.

Except me ... I was trying to figure out what kind it was, but never did because I had to pay attention to my driving. ;)

[Prince Yamato]

Many seem to think it would be okay for a hunting rifle or shotgun like this guy was doing but not an ak. A gun is a gun and woman is a woman, no matter the configuration. How many of you naysayers on this thread blasted Zumbo for what he said? What you are doing now is no different.

Actually, the hunting rifle would bug me more, because I'd assume the person was hunting in a suburban neighborhood. Being that he wasn't in his backyard and was on the physical street.

[JaxNovice]

+1 Bruss. Well articulated post.

[rhubarb]

Fellow's probably been reading some radical agitator's musings.

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion of your walks." --Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785. ME 5:85, Papers 8:407

[hornadylnl]

Do any of you remember a post on here from awhile back that had a link to the actual 911 call from a guy who was at pizza hut? He called 911 because a group of guys were carrying while they were eating there. The cops showed up and harrassed the gun owners even though they weren't doing anything illegal. The 911 caller said he didn't know if what they were doing was illegal or not but didn't think they should be able to. This situation is no different. Someone who doesn't like guns trying to impose his will of what the law should be on others. The neighbor who called the cops may very well have known the guy and was just looking for a reason to get him in trouble. We don't know the full context but we know that he broke no law and the police fished for a cause to arrest him.

How long will it be before certain speech is called hate speech and you can be arrested for saying something that offends someone else? I'm not talking about the "yelling fire in a crowded theatre" kind of speech here. I talking about voicing your opinion on illegal immigration, etc.

[ArfinGreebly]

I did a little Google maps search for the streets mentioned.

The streets on which he lives and on which he was seen are all in the same neighborhood (they intersect).

The gun store mentioned is less than five driving miles away.

The dude is in his twenties.

If it had been a new car, I suspect he would have been idling through the 'hood letting everyone see his new wheels.

Evidently that doesn't play so well with a nice new gun.

Mobile is no longer a medium-sized town, and I would imagine that neighborhoods like Spring Hill are middle-upscale (note the "gardener"), complete with soccer moms and career dads and an SUV or two. I would derive further that a guy "in his twenties" probably doesn't own a home there and likely lives with Mom and Dad.

I would imagine Mom and Dad are possibly less than thrilled with all this.

Still, all said and done, I should imagine our hero will live through this with a misdemeanor charge and his RKBA intact.

Note to self: don't stride around the neighborhood with my latest rifle purchase to impress the chicks.

[hornadylnl]

A bogus misdemeanor charge is okay? Who is the arbiter of deciding what is breach of peace and what isn't? What if he just had a big bowie knife on his belt? Is that any different? I would think that everyone here would be very disturbed that they fished for something to charge this guy with since they couldn't charge him for what they wanted to charge him for - exorcising his second amendment.

[FieroCDSP]

Here's a line of thought: Supposed for the moment he was on his way to the range, or a friend's house, where he could shoot, and it's within walking distance. Maybe his car's broke, or the woman has it, whatever. He's strolling down the street, minding his own, and suddenly, people panic. No one asks him about it. The first he knows there's a percieved problem is when the cops show up. The cops question him, and because there's been a complaint, they seize the gun as evidence and later persue the criminality of it, for whatever reason.

Does this seem right to anyone? I'm not saying that's what happened here. We don't have all of the facts. I'm pretty sure most of us here would be a bit miffed if this were us.
It's been mentioned here to use a non-revealing bag. In some places, that would be illegal unless the action were stripped and a trigger lock installed.
I's common sense to obey the written transport laws, but this is not covered by those, and is it inciting panic when you're merely carrying an object, regardless of what it is? What if it were a crash-test dummy in a large sack, arm and foot hanging out. If the cops came up and found you weren't carrying a real body, would they arrest you later for inciting panic?

Just some thinking....

[JohnBT]

"And this "walking up and down" statement you guys keep referring to was made by one of the complaintant neighbors"

Yup, a witness.

John

[mpmarty]

I don't know about Alabama but in Oregon I carry my AK74 in my pickup back window, magazine inserted with thirty rounds and the chamber empty. When my fuel pump died at around nine thirty at night I started hiking home with said AK on my shoulder. Halfway there a deputy sheriff stopped along side me and asked if I needed a lift and took me home. No problem. You guys live in the wrong areas or are just too quick to jump to conclusions with limited information.

[JohnBT]

"This reaction, "I would call the police too", is just as much done out of fear and selfishness as what the anti-gunners to do our gun rights in general "

Fear? Pfui.

Prudence. Look up the difinition if you don't know the meaning.

Okay, I'll give you a hint: "prudence is the exercise of sound judgment in practical affairs."

John

[rdaines]

When it's a nice day and I go to the range, I always wondered what would happen if I cleaned my (unloaded) firearms on the back deck, in plain sight of all the neighbors. Never have gotten up the gumption to try it.

[hornadylnl]

JohnBT - "Yup, a witness."

This same witness would probably be the same guy to describe a handgun as a full auto glock revolver to. If this witness were a true anti, don't you think his bias would be imparted into his account of the events that took place?

[hornadylnl]

I can't understand why you guys are in fear of exercising your right to bear arms. You seem to care more about what the antis think than what the constitution says.

What if you were holding a sign of protest on your local courthouse lawn? Someone who doesn't agree with your point of view and calls the cops. They can't arrest you for voicing your opinion but they can arrest you for disturbing the peace. What happened to freedom of speech in this case?

I guess innocent until proven guilty only works with murderers and drug dealers. A guy who does something that isn't illegal is charged and you guys are okay with it.

[TEDDY]

I used to go to machine gun shoots in Maine and NH.we stayed at motels.I did not have mg but others at end of day would set up a table out side and clean the mg right there no body cared.as to the city boys and guns I'm one took my rifle to school on bus and used the range at school.used to go to dump and kill rats.this in edge of built up area.police would come by and ask how it was going and shoot a few rats also.Malden Mass pop 60,000.not rural
it was diferant life no activists.almost all schools in usa had shooting clubs.some were church sponsered/legion/boy scouts and other groups.get a pre ww2 Rifleman mag and check junior clubs.I give this country 20 yrs before it starts to break up.
:uhoh: :confused: :banghead: :):):)

[pacodelahoya]

Teddy,if you think it has 20 years in it, I think you are very optimistic. :(

[MechAg94]

I remember a few years back the Nation of Islam did a protest in downtown Houston. They all carried rifles slung on their shoulders. It made a prominent spot on the news. I kind of wish I could have walked by and thanked them for supporting guns rights. I remember the news said the police were watching them, but they weren't doing anything illegal.

Last year there was a story in the TSRA newsletter about a personal experience of one of the writers. He was heading home from black powder shooting and left his black powder rifle in the passenger seat standing up. He stopped by Sonic to eat. Apparently someone called the cops after seeing the barrel standing up. He said the first officer showed up at his driver's window with gun pulled. It took a while before he explained that is wasn't even a weapon. Apparently the other officer there understood the law and had to explain it to the first one. Interesting story though.

[wjustinen]

There has got to be some kind of suit this guy can file against that person.

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

[Ohio Rifleman]

When it's a nice day and I go to the range, I always wondered what would happen if I cleaned my (unloaded) firearms on the back deck, in plain sight of all the neighbors. Never have gotten up the gumption to try it.

That's odd, since I always clean my guns out on the front porch, in plain view of anyone walking or drivng by. Nobody's ever called the cops or anything on me. As for looks and whatnot...I couldn't tell ya. Too busy cleaning my guns to notice/care. Oh, and I don't do it there with the express purpose of "stirring the pot." I have to, since solvent fumes can get very nasty very quickly, and my mom would kill me if I got solvent on the furiniture or carpet. Though, one person called the cops on me for shooting a little 20lb bow in my yard with fiberglass arrows. I do not particularly care for this particular individual.

Anyway, please, please, please can the defeatism. I can't stand us gun owners saying how in 5, 10 or 15 years that we'll be like Britain or Australia or whatever. Well, stuff like that tends to be self-fulfilling prophecy.

[MechAg94]

I guess all we can do now is wait and see what happens in court. Hopefully, this guy can get a little help and get the city off his back.

[SVT93]

I can see someone calling the cops to check him out, but if they see that there is no laws broken and the man wasn't drunk or in anyway a danger, they should let him continue on his way.

[ProficientRifleman]

JaxNovice...I am going to be in the minority here, but this guy was an idiot. Just because you can do something does not mean you should. Asking for trouble.

He did something you PERSONALLY think is stupid, something that YOU wouldn't do. He did nothing illegal.

Since he did nothing illegal, lets prosecute him for........SOMETHING! Quick!! Think sumpthin up! We gotta teach these simple peasants, that just because something isn't illegal, that doesn't mean we won't prosecute them whenever we feel like it!

It didn't happen to you, did it Jax (this time)?

[goings_51]

Right on, man. But cruise up and down in a neighborhood where you don't live and nobody knows your state of mind, with an uncased (presumably) loaded assault weapon in your hands? No, you may not be breaking any laws but don't act so surprised when you draw some unwanted attention.

When I was younger, I used to ride around the neighborhood on my bike with a BB gun., but I was always on my way to/from the entance to a 10,000 acre oilfield where I would shoot it. Even at that, the cops pulled up a time or two and spoke to me. Once they knew what I was up to, they left. I never once felt my rights were violated. I figured someone was worried about their windows or pets.

That is a little different scenereo than an assault rifle with a banana clip sticking out the bottom. When I carry a gun to/from my car, I carry it cased, or at least in a way that anyone can tell it is empty. It is just bad judgement to do this sort of thing in a modern neighborhood in a large city. Out in the sticks, OK. In a case, OK. From house to car, OK. This situation, not OK. In anycase, I would suspect the most he'll get is a fine and I think he deserves it.

If one of us had shot him with our rifle as he walked by and been charged with a crime because he wasn't an "imminate threat," this thread would be going a totally different direction right now.

[pacodelahoya]

Oh, I'm all for freedom, as long as it's things I like.

Sorry dude, 20 years is out of the question, I'm thinking more like 2.

[ctdonath]

For 20 years, in 4 different locations, I've lived within walking/biking distance of a shooting range.
Pathetic that I couldn't for concern of people calling the cops on me.
Pathetic that members of a pro-gun discussion board think this is a reasonable/acceptable situation.

[pacodelahoya]

If one of us had shot him with our rifle as he walked by and been charged with a crime because he wasn't an "imminate threat," this thread would be going a totally different direction right now.

Wa..wa...wa..whaaat?

I'm am hopelessly lost now.:uhoh:

[Titan6]

I guess this answers the question on weapons confiscation for no apparent reason.

[pacodelahoya]

...The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, unless it is skeery, or goes against the prevailing social mores.:barf:

[wjustinen]

I don't pretend to understand social boundaries in other communities, so don't say is fine for G-Love to walk down my street with an AK just because no laws are broken.

Sorry, but I am going to say it. It is fine for anyone to walk down your street doing anything that is lawful. That also applies to my street and every other street in this entire world.

If you don't like the AK carrying, perhaps you should consider a residence in a location where mere possession of an AK is unlawful. I wouldn't recommend Britain though, you might feel seriously offended when one of your neighbors drives his battle tank up and down your street.

A civilian doesn't even need a special class of driving licence to do so lawfully.

:what::what::what::rolleyes:

[Kimber1911_06238]

I've walked down a very busy road with my shotgun....got turned around in a new piece of land i was hunting and had to walk a mile back to the truck. A state cop stopped and gave me a ride. that's the kind of leo that i want my tax dollars paying for.

[ptmmatssc]

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Mankind is at its best when it is most free. This will be clear if we grasp the principle of liberty. We must recall that the basic principle of liberty is freedom of choice, which saying many have on their lips but few in their minds.

The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

Yes , I am one of those guys that likes to quote the founding fathers etc . . But they tend to say it better than I can .

If a guy was walking down the street carrying a rifle , in front of MY house , then I would be aware . Would I "call the cops" ? Good question . Was he threatening me? Should I be "preemptive" in my actions ? Are not that what the gun laws proposed all about? This guy seems to have been judged by what he could have done , rather than what he actually did .

Maybe we should call the cops whenever we see a guy with rope and duct tape walking down the street , or a prybar/crowbar and tool bag . They have to be up to no good . Either rape or robbery . I guess we need to start arresting people with those cars that can do 180 mph , people that have both bleach and ammonia in their house , people that have a lot of fertilizer , etc . . Why wait until somebody actually does something . Heck , we could have a gov agency made just to think about all the things people MIGHT do with legal objects and have them arrested .


Anyways , whatever . We are becoming what we fear . A bunch of control freaks with nothing better to do than tell others what they can/cannot do based on how we "feel" . So much for the free men we proclaim to be .

[alligator94]

OK its an AK!! I mean so what?? If open carry is legal there why is that even an issue?? What if he was open carrying a 1911?? Would he still have been charged? If we allow a man with a rifle to be arrested for carrying it legally are handguns next? Bottom line if the neighbors who are "scared" don't like it they can move. What happens if the next time you decide to open carry (legally) your Colt SAA, do you want it confiscated and to be charged as well? This is a very slippery slope...

[gyp_c2]

...Ye Gods, I'm gettin' too old...I used to take rifles to school...elementary type...I'm so sick of this PC crap I could :barf:
Hell, I'd go out and talk ta' to the guy...geez...what have we turned into...
http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

[Joe Demko]

1. Quoting the Founding Fathers, Jeff Cooper, or Mr. Rogers means nothing. "Appeal to Authority" it's called, i.e. so-and-so said it, so it must be right.
2. There's an awful lot of time spent on this board discussing something called "situational awareness" and an even greater amount of time spent heaping scorn upon 'the sheeple" for leading their lives in condition white and being compliant victims. No matter how much chest-thumping you do, and how many way-cool manly soundbites you compose, being out on the street with an AK in 21st century USA is out of the ordinary. Expect attention in most places. Somebody noticing an assclown on parade with his AK is practicing situational awareness, and by calling the publicly-funded police is doing something towards not being a victim.
What this really comes down to is an enjoyment, on some level, of feeling like The Persecuted Members Of The Resistance. The assclown gets to be today's posterboy, however ill-chosen he may be, because he got smacked down for acting like an assclown with a gun without quite breaking any laws.

[wjustinen]

I understand why I can't lawfully take an uncased firearm out of my home, and can't take it out of the case until I'm on the range or in the field.

Firearm owning blissninnies :barf:

It also explains why the SWAT teams are called when someone is so non-politically-correct as to show his rifle to a friend in his living room, and leave his window uncovered so a passerby can see it.

And yes, even here in Canada, 30 years ago it was no big deal to sit on the porch and clean rifles, shotguns, handguns, or sub-guns as the neighbors passed by.

Our bill of rights also includes language that should protect our right to self-defence. Unfortunately, that and the 2A are only as good as the effort we put into defending our rights.

Compromising your rights is as dangerous as compromising your morals. Don't do it.

[FieroCDSP]

I always wondered what would happen if I cleaned my (unloaded) firearms on the back deck, in plain sight of all the neighbors. Never have gotten up the gumption to try it.

I like to clean my Mosin Nagant on the front porch, facing a high-traffic thoroughfare...Just to see if someone says something. No one has, yet....

[ptmmatssc]

1. Quoting the Founding Fathers, Jeff Cooper, or Mr. Rogers means nothing. "Appeal to Authority" it's called, i.e. so-and-so said it, so it must be right.

Goes right along with the idea that the constitution is outdated since this is a different time . We don't need all those pesky "rights" any more . It's different now .

No matter how much chest-thumping you do, and how many way-cool manly soundbites you compose,

Hmm , I was unaware that being aware of my surroundings was "chest thumping" or quotes from the people that had the gall to form a free country were just "soundbites" .


I kinda like threads like this . They show what people are really like . How many are willing to inconvenience others or even restrict what rights we all have , for their own personal comfort. The crux of the whole thing is that somebody was doing something legal , yet somebody else felt intimidated/scared/threatened by that act and someone of authority decided they needed to pay for this heinous act .

being out on the street with an AK in 21st century USA is out of the ordinary.

Anti gun people use that same logic all the time for things like concealed carry and pushing the AWB . It's just not "21st century" . We're so much different now . Give an inch.........

[FourTeeFive]

If any of us saw a unknown guy walking down the street we wouldn't do anything differently?

I don't know about you, but if I see someone I don't know walking around my neighborhood with an AK, or a baseball bat for that matter, I'm going to at least try to get an idea of what is going on. Yes, that means I would be on alert.

I'm getting a kick out of these messages saying that you would look up, think "nice gun" and then not give it a second thought. Sure.

[trueblue1776]

It also explains why the SWAT teams are called when someone is so non-politically-correct as to show his rifle to a friend in his living room, and leave his window uncovered so a passerby can see it.

How is that the same situation as a stranger walking around my neighborhood with a battle rifle?

[gomer]

Wow, I can't believe how big this has gotten since I first posted it this morning. I've called a few of my friends that live down that way (I live in North Alabama) and they haven't heard anything about it.. but they did say they can't believe the police took his rifle from him and are thinking about hitting him with some charges. It is a sad day when you can't carry a rifle LEGALLY without a hassle in Alabama. We have truely turned into a culture of whiney ass softies who are afraid of our own shadows.

I really appreciate everyones views on this, it has shown me alot about the mix of people we have on this board.

[pacodelahoya]

Joe Demko, I see by your public profile that you are a self proclaimed Jack Booted Thug.

It shows.

Does the fact that the cops and DA had to manufacture a crime to charge him with because what he did was entirely LEGAL not bother you in the least??

I can't wait till you are elected chief, maybe I will have moved away from Beaver county by then.

Does the fact that I don't have the weight of the government and a badge behind me make me a chest thumper??

[Larry Ashcraft]

Joe Demko, I see by your public profile that you are a self proclaimed Jack Booted Thug.

It shows.
Seems like I said something a couple pages back about flaming. I KNOW I said something, I could hear myself.

Lights out.