[RCouch]

The Rifleman has a pretty good article on "The Judge" in this months issue. It doesn't cover any new ground but it's short and includes info on some shot shells and .45 cal loads.

[HiWayMan]

I want to like this gun, but it has gimmick written all over it. From the write up it appears that it serves neither the function of a revolver or a shotgun well. Just becuase something can do two things half-a$$ed, doesn't make it great, or even deserving of a nod.

And the final line about south Florida judges packing it beneath their robes. I call BS on that one.

[NewShooter]

I think it does make a good survival gun for someone who dont want to carry a rifle. Although, as a game getter, your range would be limited.

[Vern Humphrey]

A bad idea, poorly executed.

[GEM]

I know about three families who have bought the gun for the lady folk. The idea being that they are not shooters. The gun will be loaded with a shotshell and when trouble comes, the lady of the house will probably close her eyes, squeal and fire. You can't miss with a shot shell.

This sounds nasty on my part but I expressed my preference for a conventional firearm and significant training.

[MCgunner]

I think it does make a good survival gun for someone who dont want to carry a rifle. Although, as a game getter, your range would be limited.

As a .45 Colt, the free bore is going to negatively affect accuracy and the shot shells are worthless on game, totally worthless. You couldn't even kill a snake with it without being within striking distance of the snake.

I have a .45/.410 contender barrel that has some merit as a survival gun. The .410 range is 20 yards on most game (10" barrel with a screw in full choke that stops the spin of the shot column) and the .45 Colt is accurate enough to kill game to 50 yards. But, the Judge would be best used in survival situations as a drop line weight for cat fishing.

JMHO, of course, informed HO. The gun's best use is with 5 pellet 000 loads at home defense ranges as I see it. It's no outdoor gun.

[ArmedBear]

If I need to shoot snakes, I'll just get a box of snake loads and use them in my regular revolver.

[Vern Humphrey]

You can't miss with a shot shell.
There's many a rabbit, squirrel, pheasant, duck, goose and quail that would disagree.

If you look at the data posted in the AR article, you see the spread is minimal at in-house distances. At 5 yards, buckshot patterened into 8" or 5" circles (depending on the make.) That's not enough spread to compensate for a close-your-eyes-and-yank-on-the-trigger shooting style.

To those who think this would be a good survival hunting gun, I say, "Take it hunting and see how you do. Try it for recreational hunting before you stake your life on it."

[CuzinMike]

I'm actually considering one of these as a house gun. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's the most versatile weapon out there, but for some purposes, it could work quite well IMHO.

I live in a townhouse development with neighbors on both sides and paper-thin walls. Plus, with the layout of my place, it would be impossible for the need to arise where I would have to take a shot longer than 15 feet.

Everything I've read seems to point to 000 .410 buckshot rounds being quite accurate at short ranges in the gun. Plus, every time you pull the trigger, it's like firing a volley of .380. And the barrel is rifled, so 45 Colt accuracy seems to be on par with any similar short-barreled gun from the reviews I've read.

[RCouch]

I've had one for awhile and agree with the statements about it's limitations. If, however, you live in a rural area and had used a shot loaded .38 like I have then the Taurus is much better for snakes, etc. Don't think it would be anyones first choice for normal hunting, but I've found it very effective as a utility weapon. If I was a Judge, I think I could find something easier to carry than "The Judge". It's heavy and long on the draw.

[Stainz]

I shot one yesterday at the range. First, several 'cowboy' loads... at small rebounding steel bp plates. They were safe - at 12 yd - I didn't hit one - made ~ 10-12" circle on the berm behind the plates (~15 yd), mixed DA/SA. One .410 #6 DA - patterned a bit broad on a large paper target (12 yd). The density of the shot could have permitted a smaller copperhead to have remained totally unscathed.

The gun: Typical Taurus trigger. If it cleans up well with spring changes, like that last 66 I did, it should be improveable to fair. Seriously, it is not a problem for it's intended use. Size wise, it was smaller than it looked in the display case. It was lighter, too... must be some Al in that frame. Sights are fine - the accuracy of the .45 Colts was poor - but I doubt better sights would help there. Recoil was brisk, but controllable - the funky 'ribber' grips helped. I bet it appears in many folks collection, as it rates a high mark for 'novelty'. I am so happy I got to test one - I certainly won't be getting one now.

Stainz

PS I walked down the line afterwards at the public range and took aim hand held with some 255gr LSWC @ 810 fps at the 100yd steel plates (12"). I hit them twice out of six times... about normal for my 4" 625 Mountain Gun. Now, that's a proper .45 Colt 'protector'!

[Mikeo]

As a .45 Colt, the free bore is going to negatively affect accuracy and the shot shells are worthless on game, totally worthless. You couldn't even kill a snake with it without being within striking distance of the snake.

I have a .45/.410 contender barrel that has some merit as a survival gun. The .410 range is 20 yards on most game (10" barrel with a screw in full choke that stops the spin of the shot column) and the .45 Colt is accurate enough to kill game to 50 yards. But, the Judge would be best used in survival situations as a drop line weight for cat fishing.

Wouldn't the freebore be the same as on the Contender barrel?

[Vern Humphrey]

Wouldn't the freebore be the same as on the Contender barrel?
No. The Contender is a single barrel gun, with chamber and barrel all machined into the same piece of steel. There is no gap between chamber and barrel.

The Judge is a revolver. The chambers are in the cylinder, a separate piece from the barrel. Because the chambers must be long enough to accept the .410 shotgun shell, they are much too long for the .45 Colt, so there is a long, smooth freebore in each chamber -- from the mouth of the .45 case to the face of the cylinder, which leaves the bullet unguided.

By the time the .45 bullet reaches the cylinder gap, it is likely unstable and off-center.

[Stainz]

The 'free bore', if measured from the end of the .45 Colt case, max length = 1.285" (And whose OD is .480"!) to the case mouth step at ~2.5" (Like the 2.5" .410 chambers in the Taurus 4410.), where it reduces to 'barrel' diameter .452", would be 1.215" minimum - with a 3" .410 chamber increasing that another .5". So, a nominal .452" .45 Colt bullet gets to sail down a 1.215-1.715+" .480+" tube, even in a rifled barrel, before finding the properly sized/grooved barrel. In the revolver, you also have the alignment -of the cylinder chamber exit bore being both coaxial and diameter matched with the forcing cone/barrel entry - and the gap between them, too. Nope, a .45 Colt doesn't stand a chance in a dual purpose .45/.410 firearm. Gads, then there is that infamous 'tight chamber/black powder chamber' debacle.

Still, 'The Judge' has that novelty value going for it...

Stainz

[Mikeo]

I realize ther is a B/C gap to consider, but no more than any other revolver, The freebore, itself has to be the same on the contender, however, if it is to accept the .410 Shotgun shell. Now granted, the 10" barrel contender would have more inherent accuracy, as would the Single shot configuration. I was only curious as to how the freebore would be much longer in the Judge.

[Vern Humphrey]

I realize ther is a B/C gap to consider, but no more than any other revolver
What affects accuracy is the orientation and condition of the bullet when it reaches the gap. If it is not aligned properly -- as it cannot be in that long, smooth-sided chamber -- it will be tipped.

[El Tejon]

I like mine, it's a range toy and not a weapon, but I have fun with it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=241338

[Mikeo]

What affects accuracy is the orientation and condition of the bullet when it reaches the gap. If it is not aligned properly -- as it cannot be in that long, smooth-sided chamber -- it will be tipped.
I'm not saying that that isn't true, but a .45 bullet rattling down the freebore on a Contender barrel would be subject to some similar level of tipping, also, as it reaches the rifling. The .006 B/C gap would not contribute an extra inordinate amount of tipping.

[oweno]

Finally got this month's "American Rifleman" (Florida is a black hole for mail) so I could read the article about The Judge...a comment or two:

1. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

2. What WERE they thinking?

3. I know, lets modify one of our revolvers so it can shoot both the .45 AND the .410 and we can put in a secret compartment and a compass and ...

4. It's an answer in search of a problem.

Also, I agree with the comment above about Florida judges carrying these things. OK. You want to be armed with a handgun for self defense. You can already carry legally concealed (you're a judge, you see), you will be sitting down most of the time and whatever you carry will be under long black robes. And, you're making enough money to buy whatever you want.

You're going to carry this monster of a revolver? I doubt it.

[Vern Humphrey]

I was really disappointed that they didn't include an ejection seat, a Captain Midnight Decoder Ring and a secret escape tunnel.:p

[ArmedBear]

Note that an off-the-shelf .45LC snake round holds about 70% as much shot as a 2 1/2" .410 shell.

Why not just use a regular snake load, and a regular .44 or .45 revolver?

If you need more shot, or bigger shot, you'd be far better served by a shotgun. If not, a regular snake load will do fine.

[Stainz]

Some years back, there was a D-MAX "Sidewinder", actually tested in the AR's 'Dope Bag'. It was a lengthened Ruger SBH frame - with a long .45/.410 cylinder (I don't recall whether it was 2.5" or 3" .410 chambers.). They also made a 5-shot SBH framed .45 Colt - like the other version, it had a ~6" barrel. D-MAX was picked up by Magnum Research as part of their "B.F.R." line. They ultimately dropped the .45 Colt variant - CDNN closeout ~ $450-$500 - but kept the .45/.410 version - at $999 MSRP (Same size as their .45-70 BFR). Additionally, there is another US company that has made only a blocky-looking 3" chamber .45/.410 short barrel for years... looks like it was modelled using Lego. I think it is currently available from them to your ffl for ~$600. So, the 'dream' continues... or is it a nightmare?

Stainz

[lee n. field]

I haven't seen anyone else comment on it, but the NRA article has a big (8" wide) closeup of the cylinder, showing both .410 and .45 Colt rounds loaded.

What I noticed, and what my wife (no gun person, at all) noticed, was that the machining on the ejector star looked awful. :barf: Scraped up, chewed up and irregular.

[W.E.G.]

Didn't the retarded soldier in "Three Kings" have one of those?

Not Clooney - I mean the other retarded soldier.

[DrLaw]

Agreed, gimmick gun.

The Doc is out now.

[MCgunner]

Wouldn't the freebore be the same as on the Contender barrel?

I have a .45 colt/.410 contender and had a scope on it at one time. It would group about 8-10" at 100 yards, which is pathetic for a contender, but with the irons on it, at 50, you could keep 'em on minute of deer shoulder, probably around 5". The shotgun part of it involves screwing a choke on the end of the barrel which chokes it full choke AND stops the rotation of the shot load. I've hunted squirrel with it. At 20 yards and in, you can hit, but I've fired on a squirrel about about 25-30 yards before and he just scampered off laughing at me as leaves fell off the tree all around where he was sitting. The combination, even in a contender, is less than impressive.

The judge, at across the room ranges, especially if you have a small two bedroom like my house, it fine, but it ain't no huntin' or outdoor survival tool, no way, no how. I'll keep my DA .357s or my Blackhawks for outdoor use or my .30-30 barrel on the contender for serious whitetail and hog hunting. And, I have taken squirrel at 50+ yards with the .22 barrel on that Contender. The .22 is far more effective than the .410 barrel.

BTW, I haven't tried it yet, but contender types have loaded 9.3x74R brass with bulky powder and a .45 bullet to take up the freebore in the contender. I don't even know where to start on powder and powder charge, but some day when I've got nothing better to do, I'm going to ebay some brass and work on this project. Could wind up with a poor man's .45-70. :D

[ryan b]

I think everyone is missing the concept here I own one yes it has limitaions but i have a 4 inch this barrel length is not even listed with shot mine throw a good pattern at 15 yards with winchester 6's well enough for small game it shoots slugs magnificently i can hit a milk jug all day at 40 yards with them and with 45 lc it will shoot 3 inch groups from a rest at 50 yards. Try a load os 3 pellet buckshot and you will be really amazed. Yes you can get shot for a 45 colt but can you get #6 in the 45 shotshell no unless u load them yourself. My buddy has the 6 inch and it does not shoot nearly as good as mine. for a gun that is for special purposes i think it is very good. I always carry mine when i back pack with a 25 round belt of a mix of shells and shotshells. I may have just gotten a good one but i would let any one shoot mine that is a none believer in them deffently dont count them out. as a self defense weapon you cant beat it mine is loaded by my bed with the first load being shot round 2 and 3 bering 3 pellet buckshot and the last 2 45 colt corbon hollow points

[Shotgun Willie]

Can you believe those fools over at the Taurus company? Everyone here has already told them that Judge gun is no good, and yet those fools keep making them fast as they can!

And what about all those fools buying them? That gun has been out for a year or two now, and thousands of folks just buying them so fast the factory can't make enough. And the wholesale distributors have them "on allocation" to spread the supply among the dealers fairly. What a bunch of fools!

But wait a minute...now that I think about it, isn't that how you measure success? Let's see. So many sales they can't supply the demand. Expanded the production, still can't supply the demand. Fools keep buying them in spite of folks here saying they are no good...

Hmmm. That kind of blurs the line a bit and makes it hard to tell who is the fools, and who is the "fool-ee's in this deal.

[DPris]

Willie,
Sarcasm aside, the sales volume on this particular revolver is no direct indication of its genuine usefulness.
It sells largely to people who don't understand what it can & cannot do, to those who expect it to do things it can't, and to those who think it's cool.

It's not a matter of the gun being "no good", it's a matter of it being a severe compromise, and a matter of there being many better choices for defensive use.

Don't know what prompted your "fools" rant, but your concern certainly does you... credit.

Denis

[Down South]

You’ll find a lot of different opinions on the Judge. I think that the Judge is over rated as a defense piece when loaded with bird shot. Loaded with 45 LC is a different story. I own a Judge but I’ve never considered it as a CCW. I have other pistols / revolvers that fill that bill. The Judge is mostly just a fun gun for me. I carry it on my tractor to shoot field rats with that scurry out from under my tractor when I’m bush hogging. I carry it on my side when I’m down in the woods on my 4-wheeler. I carry it while I’m fishing. The Judge does its job well for what I bought it for, a short range 5-shot shotgun that can be easily carried on my side.
The Judge would make a great SD piece loaded with the 45 LC.

[jad0110]

The Judge is a revolver. The chambers are in the cylinder, a separate piece from the barrel. Because the chambers must be long enough to accept the .410 shotgun shell, they are much too long for the .45 Colt, so there is a long, smooth freebore in each chamber -- from the mouth of the .45 case to the face of the cylinder, which leaves the bullet unguided.

By the time the .45 bullet reaches the cylinder gap, it is likely unstable and off-center.

I suppose this is the same basic reason why the average 38 caliber revolver has just a smidge more mechanical accuracy than an otherwise identical 357 Magnum revolver. Think 6" S&W Model 14 in 38 vs the Model 19 in 357. In practical terms though, I doubt most shooters would notice much if any difference.

My local dealer also can't keep The Judge in stock. They are selling 2 or 3 a week. Seems most people are loading them with birdshot, or 2 1/2" 000 buckshot (when it can be found). I myself usually only see the 3" .410 buckshot in my area. NOTE: max .410 shell size for The Judge is 2 1/2".

Anyone considering 410 shells for defense first needs to read the test done on "The Box O' Truth":

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

I was really surprised (in a bad way) by the .410 slugs. I figured they would have had better penetration performance than they did. But the slugs only did marginally better than the 000. Basically, if I was using one for self defense, I would only use a good, factory 45 Colt hollowpoints.

[DPris]

And, if you were using one with .45 Colt loads, you could find a number of better choices in size, grips, handling, trigger pull, and accuracy. :)
Denis

[Pyzon]

Why not break the post #1 ice with my 2 cents on this thread ?

Nope, it's not much of a shotgun, even with 3" shotshells.

Nope, it's not a very accurate .45 Colt at 50 yards.

BUT....

When I shoot my 3" Magnum model, a smile usually occurs for a couple of reasons.

First though let me tell you why I fell victim and bought one.

80% home defense and a worry that somebody on the other side of the house is in range of anything other than a shotshell or a really tiny bullet, like a .22.

10% trail gun in areas where Copperheads hang out.

10% range gun that always gets a lot of attention, maybe it's that smile on my face ?

It really starts to perform with handloaded 3" shotshells with #2 plated shot, since you can fit about 60 +/- pellets in that skinny shell. Plated BB shot also shreds ( and I mean shreads) a 1" thick phonebook.

And you can send 5 rounds across the bedroom or down the hall in less than a couple of seconds, with a far less chance or some dirtball grabbing the barrel of my Ithaca 12 pump as I scout around in the dark.

Typically I will load 2 or 3 shotshells followed by 3 or 2 .45 Colt Gold Dots . Or all .45's, that I'm able to keep inside a 4" circle at 20 yards consistently.

Of all the guns I've read about or seen, this is the only one that can do this that I'm aware of. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about. I turned the target around to show the holes better. It's 3 yards from my bed to the door.

Thanks for all the informative threads everyone. I intend to read 'em all in due time.

Pyzon

[PedalBiker]

Heard someone ask about these at the gun store last week. They sales guy said they couldn't keep them in stock.

Keep in mind that they can't keep XDs , Glocks, or Kel Tecs in stock either ever since Obama was elected.

The did still have a whole bunch of revolvers and HKs and Kimbers and Sigs. The really expensive stuff isn't selling apparently.

I read the article. If I was rich I might add one to the collection, but it fits no need I have. If I were getting a .410 I'd be looking for a pump or lever action. 45LC doesn't interest me in any configuration. - Just me.

[CHAINGUNMASSACRE]

For the poster that said it would be a good home defense peice for the lady......true. If she can learn to use it effectively in defense, and with .410 buckshot loaded your best tactic may be the same used with a Raven MP25 or a Ruger MkII. Empty the friggin thing into the BG's face and neck/upper torso. Keep shooting at their face until the threat is neutralized. Sounds brutal, but when you're talking about betting your life on a short barreled .410, you'd better think of it as a "mousegun". Just with lots more BOOM and muzzle flash. I am a 9mm+p/.45ACP type guy, and I'm just not convinced that with a .410 OOBuck round out of a 4 in barrell you are going to achieve sufficient penetration to stop an attacker if you shoot center mass. You'll get their attention for sure..........but if you're going to load it with .45LC you have absolutely no advantage over a decent 1911. Just my thoughts on the Judge, and yes-I have been tempted to buy one just because they're sooo COOL!

[Redhawk1]

Shotgun Willie
Can you believe those fools over at the Taurus company? Everyone here has already told them that Judge gun is no good, and yet those fools keep making them fast as they can!

And what about all those fools buying them? That gun has been out for a year or two now, and thousands of folks just buying them so fast the factory can't make enough. And the wholesale distributors have them "on allocation" to spread the supply among the dealers fairly. What a bunch of fools!

But wait a minute...now that I think about it, isn't that how you measure success? Let's see. So many sales they can't supply the demand. Expanded the production, still can't supply the demand. Fools keep buying them in spite of folks here saying they are no good...

Hmmm. That kind of blurs the line a bit and makes it hard to tell who is the fools, and who is the "fool-ee's in this deal.

I guess I am one of them fools there Little Willie. I have tons of handguns, hunting and personal protection handguns.

I looked long and hard at the Judge, I decided to buy one, and take it out to see what it would do. Just for conversation purposes, have you ever shot one, or are you just giving your unexperienced opinion?
Back to my actual experience from shooting one.
The 45 Colts at 10 yards, were all within a 5 inch circle with 5 quick shots. Not bad on any bad guy target.

The 2.5 inch 410 buck shot 3 pellets were all in the upper body at 10 yards. 5 shots and 15 holes in the target from belly to chest. The 2.5 inch 410 slugs were all in the kill zone as well from 10 yards. With the 2.5 inch 410 with number 8 shot. All five shot fired, and the body and head were full of holes.

Is the Judge as accurate as my other defense handgun, no. Could I kill someone in my house at 10 yards with my Judge, you darn right I could. But most encounters are under that distance, more like 7 or 5 yards. And I have full confidence, I would not have a problem killing anyone that came close to me with the Judge..

My actual experience with the Judge was good. Would I trust my life with it, you bet. I would not use it for my primary carry weapon, I have much better choices in my gun safe, but in my home, the judge is just one of my options.

Now lets hear your actual experience Little Willie.

[PcolaDawg]

I have a Judge, and it's loaded with 000 buckshot and is a permanent fixture by my bed. I also take it in the car with me when I head to work (then I leave it in the car and CCW my 642 or Kimber Ultra Carry II).

This summer, I am looking forward to having it in a side holster while I do yardwork. I'll have the first 3 chambers filled with #6 birdshot and the last two with 000 buck. Now, when I come across a Copperhead, I can kill it instantly and not run into the house to get the shotgun in hopes that the snake will still be there when I get back. And, if I come across a mean wild dog or pig (which has happened on occasion) I can switch to 000 buck and take care of business if I have to.

Anyway, in spite of the flaws and problems mentioned in this thread, I really like the gun and it serves a couple of different purposes for me that no other single gun can.

And I have practiced with it quite a bit and I personally believe the gun will do VERY well as a snake gun and very well as a home defense gun. That 000 buckshot puts one mean hole (and sometimes 3 mean holes) in whatever I shoot at. I'm accurate with it up to 25 feet, and that's probably more distance than I will ever need it for.

So count me in as a fan of the Judge (and I am the guy that had the barrel blow off the thing the first time I fired it. Taurus fixed it quickly and well and I have enjoyed shooting it ever since).

[Monster Zero]

For a snake gun, I'd rather have a Bond Arms .45/.410 derringer "Snakeslayer".

I think it might make a better SD piece as well with 3" .410 000 buck loads. Shoot it twice and then throw it at them.

[Vern Humphrey]

I'd as soon have a .22 revolver with ratshot. You don't need a .410 to kill a snake, and there are better .45s out there.

[Redhawk1]

I'd as soon have a .22 revolver with ratshot. You don't need a .410 to kill a snake, and there are better .45s out there.

SO WHAT! What value did your post add to the topic?

We all know there are more accurate guns out there, but the Judge was never intended to be used for hunting either.

[Vern Humphrey]

SO WHAT! What value did your post add to the topic
A bit more than you post added.:p

[Redhawk1]

At least I gave an actual report, not a distorted view. :scrutiny:

[Vern Humphrey]

At least I gave an actual report, not a distorted view.

No, I gave an actual report, not a distorted view. I have carried a .22 revolver many a mile through the woods, and killed many a snake with either ratshot or a standard ball round. I never needed a .410 shotgun to kill a snake.

When I carry a .45, I want a gun designed to shoot as well as possible -- not compromised to shoot .410 shells.

[Redhawk1]

That is not the design of the Judge, instead of trying to make it something it is not. It was designed as a short range personal protection gun. It can be used as a snake killer as well as a human killer.

I think you need to read my actual report I posted earlier.

I hate when people try to give to opinion of a gun they never handled or shot. Actions speak louder than words.

Have a nice day.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Let's Break it down:

Good for.....

1. Hitting flying birds or any type of hunting with birdshot? ==> No, it's got a crappy pattern and limited range.
2. Shooting game or self-defense with .45 colt? ==> No, crappy accuracy
3. Shooting birdshot as close-up snake defense when say bowfishing or float tube fishing? ==> Yep, great for that
4. Shooting several inline 000 Buck pellets for self-defense vs. human predators? ==> Yep, great for that.
5. Shooting .410 slugs for self-defense or small-medium game? ==> Yep, great for that - accuracy is better because the slugs are obturated in the cylinders either with or without wadding.

So it DOES do some things well (3, 4, and 5), but as ArmedBear pointed out, #3 and #5 can ALSO be done by an ordinary .45 colt handgun (substituting .45 colt rounds for .410 slugs). So about the only thing it's BETTER for than a .45 colt handgun is #4 - shooting triple ot buck as a defense load, if that's your thang, particularly in the 3" version. Also as for snake defense, .410 shells are a LOT cheaper than CCI .45 colt birdshot shells (but then again how many are you gonna need for that use which probably will never happen anyway?). And the #5 use (slugs) is inferior in stopping power to an actual .45 colt loading.

So Bottom Line - they are not nearly as useful as the public seems to perceive them to be, but if use #4 is your thang, then they have a justification. Me, I have one - like it for the float tube fishing defense - we do seem to have a copious amounts of cottonmouths around here. Besides, when I get my next .45 Colt handgun, it's gonna be a $1,750 SA Freedom Arms, and ain't no way I'm risking dropping that one in the lake while float tube fishing.

So it's not bad idea, poorly executed. It's a so-so idea, executed as well as can be done, given the constraints of physics (.480 cylinders) and the law in the USA (can't be a smoothbore).

I will say that SO FAR, mine displays HORRID accuracy with .45 colt - wouldn't trust it to hit anything beyond about 5 yards. So to me, it is ONLY a shotgun. However, it will be interesting to see what .410 slugs can do out of it. :) Mine is 2.75", not 3.0". :(

[DAdams]

The Bucket O Truth boys did some testing awhile back on da Judge, you can check it out on their website.

I'll let you find out yourself what they thought so as not to spoil the surprise. :evil:

[Vern Humphrey]

I've shot one, Redhawk.

When I'm out and about, I'll carry a standard .22 revolver with rat shot, if I'm worried about snakes. If I want a .45, I'll carry a real .45. If I'm still worried about snakes, I'll handload a few shot rounds for that .45.

[Redhawk1]

I did not buy my Judge to use as my carry gun, I have a lot better choices as my CCW.

I did not buy it to shoot snakes, a good stick will kill a snake.

I did not buy the Judge to use for hunting, again I have a lot better choices for handgun hunting.

I bought it for up close and personal protection in my home, or in my tent camping. 2 legged kind.

I also bought it just because, I wanted to see what it was about.

[JUDGE501]

I took mine out to the gun range this weekend just to blow the dust off of it. Snakes? Skunks? Possum? Raccoons? Assailants with knives or bulky semi-automatic handguns? What is everyone talking abount varments for? This thing has the ability to imobolize the best shooter, at close range, with one shot. You can't return accurate fire with 60 pellets in your upper torso and face. Then follow it up with another volley of pellets to get-em cowering, or put-em away with four rounds of 357 to end it once and for all. See my target practice.

[JUDGE501]

Patterns of The Judge at an inddor range.

[wrs840]

I did not buy it to shoot snakes, a good stick will kill a snake....

Bull foogin sh*t.


You, sir, have never killed a copperhead or rattler (the only ones you should kill) with a stick. Flat-bladed shovel, maybe...

Sorry, it's just crap. Don't encourage people to attempt to do something that's just stupid.

Les

[pmeisel]

Many years ago I was talking hunting with one of those old guys who had tried and done about everything. He told me about an old 45 DA revolver that an uncle had cut off 410 shells to fit the chamber length. They used that gun for snakes and occasionally for small game. Wouldn't recommend it (he didn't either) but the point is it performed for them.....

[bedwards1]

The gun will do what is advertised. Sure, many don't need (want) it. I have no need for milspec rifle, but I wish I had the money to own one. I do own a Judge and enjoy shooting it. That's what its all about. It will put 45 colt on paper at 50 yds, 000 buck at 25 yds, and #6 or #8 at 10 yards. Its by my bed with 000buck and 45 gold dots now. What more could you ask. Why is everyone so impassioned?

[gwlammers]

I think the Judge is a great gun for what it was intended for - anti car jacking and close quarters home defense. It sits out on my night stand every night.

[Dan Crocker]

How did they get around the shorty shotgun law with this? Is a .410 not considered a shotgun round? It sounds like a revolver, chambered in .410 that can also fire .45 long colt (since the chamber is so long,) so how did it end up being classified as a handgun and not a 'multi-bullet street-sweeping death machine shotgun?' Designed to kill cops, firemen, ambulances, puppies, and orphans, of course.

[wrs840]

How did they get around the shorty shotgun law with this?

Rifled barrel?

I figure the shorty-shotgun objection will probably put the Judge high on any ban list. That's why I bought two of them. I'm not saying anyone else should, and those that pan these things, please DON"T buy one. Fixes your problem.

Les

[Dan Crocker]

I thought it had a smoothbore specifically to allow it to shoot the .410?

[bodab]

:neener:I own one and like it!!:neener: So you all can kiss my @$$!!! I know what it can do and what it cant do and I do think its pretty useless!!






this post was said in a good humored tone!!:scrutiny:

[wrs840]

I thought it had a smoothbore specifically to allow it to shoot the .410?

Just eyeballed one of mine, and it's rifled.

Les

[Dan Crocker]

cool. I guess that would be why then!

[Vern Humphrey]

How did they get around the shorty shotgun law with this? Is a .410 not considered a shotgun round? It sounds like a revolver, chambered in .410 that can also fire .45 long colt (since the chamber is so long,) so how did it end up being classified as a handgun and not a 'multi-bullet street-sweeping death machine shotgun?' Designed to kill cops, firemen, ambulances, puppies, and orphans, of course.
Years ago, there was a bit of a fad for taking old revolvers (a lot of M1917s were ruined that way) and reaming out the bores so they could fire shot loads. ATF ruled those were sawed-off shotguns, but if the barrels were left rifled, they were merely revolvers whose owners occasionally fired shot loads.

Taurus is going under that rule -- smoothbore = shotgun. Rifled barrel = not a shotgun.

[Virginian]

I think a lot of you are completely missing the point. Taurus is in business to make money. This gun is doing that, big time. They don't care how useful it is, as a revolver or a shotgun. I don't think it is only aimed at experienced and knowledgeable gun people. It is a gimmick. It is selling well by all accounts.
I applaud any gun company for coming up with anything new that sells in this day and age, whether I like it or not. Sounds like maybe their employees can sleep sounder than those of the geniuses who dreamed up the .460 and the .327 Magnums.
I can not offer any hands on report. Soon as I saw it I knew I didn't have the slightest desire for one, if it was given to me. But, I feel exactly the same way about a ton of black semi autos, and more than a few wheelguns too.

[WardenWolf]

How many times is this thread going to be necroed?

The way the Judge works is this: there is a tiny bit of rifling in the barrel, but not very much. When shooting .45 rounds, your accuracy is going to be nil past a short distance. It's primarily a shotgun. It's accurate enough for point-blank defense, and powerful with the .45 load, but it's optimized for the .410 load.

On a related note, imagine my surprise when I was going through my late grandfather's things and found his Smith & Wesson model 10-5. In the box, with it, was a bag of CCI .38 shotshells. I don't think he ever fired any of them, and the revolver is practically unused, but I was surprised to find he had something like that.

[eye5600]

Most obvious point: the Judge makes no sense unless you load with at least one or two shot shells.

Whether it makes sense as an HD weapon depends on who the bad guy is.

If he's burglar looking for your wallet and the family silver, he is going to be scared off by the sight of any shiny handgun, and the Judge has the advantage that if you do feel that he needs the extra encouragement of having the thing fired at him, you are probably not going to kill him.

On the other hand, if the intruder is a hard-core, home invader who needs killing, you are going to have to fire off the shotsell warning rounds and hope you hit the guy with your remaining bullets. Not the best choice, but a long way from nothing.

[geniusiknowit]

I wouldn't bother loading this with 45LC. The purpose of this gun is to fire the .410. The ability to fire 45LC could perhaps be seen as a minor bonus, since it just happens to fit, but I wouldn't recommend getting it for that.

Federal makes 000 and #4 buck cartridges for this.

This gun is for close-range self defense, period. Loaded with 000 or #4, it will do the job just fine.

Remember, pistols don't have the power or range that rifles do. You give up a lot in order to have something in a smaller package. But no one says pistols are useless.

If you want to fire buckshot, but need something smaller than a shotgun, this will fit the bill, as long as you don't expect it to have the power of magnum shells or the accuracy of a 28" choked barrel.

For people who live in an apartment building, or have a cramped house, narrow hallways, etc, this is a very decent gun. It is a very decent gun to keep in the car or truck. Although wouldn't be my first choice, it can be okay for a carry gun, as long as you don't worry much about concealment.

[Redhawk1]

Bull foogin sh*t.


You, sir, have never killed a copperhead or rattler (the only ones you should kill) with a stick. Flat-bladed shovel, maybe...

Sorry, it's just crap. Don't encourage people to attempt to do something that's just stupid.

You don't know me from Adam's house cat, how in the hell do you know if I have killed snakes with a stick or not? I have a 6 foot diamond back rattler I killed with a stick in Airazona a few years ago, I mounted the skin on a board to show my buddies. I have killed several copper heads on my land in West Virginia. One strike to the head was all it took. Not a stunt and not stupid either.

Either your slow or scared pick one.

[Redhawk1]

I wouldn't bother loading this with 45LC. The purpose of this gun is to fire the .410. The ability to fire 45LC could perhaps be seen as a minor bonus, since it just happens to fit, but I wouldn't recommend getting it for that.

Sure the 45 Colts in the Taurus Judge is not intended for hunting accuracy. But I got the bust accuracy with them in mine. Better than the 410 slugs and Buckshot. Read my report on page 2.

Ballistic's of the 45 Colt is far superior that the 410 slug or buck shot.

My Judge is loaded with the 410 shotshell as my first shot followed by 4 of the 45 Colts.

[BhmBill]

Don't knock it til you try it.

I don't have a Judge, I have a Thunder Five (like used in the Three Kings movie) with both the .45-70 and .45/.410 cylinders. Lots of fun to shoot. I originally bought it because it was a good deal, but it has it's purpose now. It's loaded with .410 shot and slugs. I'll be getting some .45lc for it soon

[Mainer2009]

It seems to me that a judge loaded with a 3" 410 Buckshot or slug load would pack quite a pop, as it would with a heavy 45LC load. I don't think it was really intended for hunting with, more or a less a self defense revolver, heck, I've had many a grouse get away back when I used a 410 shotgun to hunt them, I wouldn't want to try a 410 revolver, however firing at an intruder at 10 feet away in a house, with a buckshot or slug load....gotta hurt. My brother has had one on order for a few months with a 3" chamber, I bought him some 45's for it a while ago...some heavy stuff that outta be a real kick to shoot, corbon 335 grain +P HC loads, also, I'd dare to say those would also wreak havoc on a house intruder hit by one. He ordered the gun with the sole intention to use it as a home defense weapon, nothing more. My dealer says he has a bunch on back order, and if you wanted one, expect to wait 7 or 8 months at best, sounds like they are selling very well. The concept is cool, a big heavy, rugged, unique looking revolver that can fire shot gun shells, I wouldn't mind having one myself, but there are so many on my want list already....

BhmBill...a Thunder five? sweet! I wish they still made those, cool looking guns, the thunder five has been topic of many a conversation between me and one of my gun buddies. The last time I checked the the website it said "No more thunder fives"...bummer, I like the idea of being able to fire a 45/70 round out of it.

[doc540]

Taurus Judge: answer to a question no one asked

[doc540]

"Bull foogin sh*t.


You, sir, have never killed a copperhead or rattler (the only ones you should kill) with a stick. Flat-bladed shovel, maybe...

Sorry, it's just crap. Don't encourage people to attempt to do something that's just stupid."


I've caught fat, cotton-mouth water moccasins with a flag stick and my bare hands.

If anyone else is stupid enough to try it, don't blame me.:D

[MCgunner]

Quote:
I did not buy it to shoot snakes, a good stick will kill a snake....
Bull foogin sh*t.


You, sir, have never killed a copperhead or rattler (the only ones you should kill) with a stick. Flat-bladed shovel, maybe...

Sorry, it's just crap. Don't encourage people to attempt to do something that's just stupid.

Les

Killin' 'em with a garden hoe is quite easy. Don't need a handgun and can't fire it in town, anyway, which is the only place I really care if I kill it or not....in my yard.

On the topic of legality, the case Thompson Center vs US, the Supreme court held that the TC was legal, rifled, a .45 Colt It was also found that it had no other purpose than sporting use, which to me is a little troubling. As I recall, the language was in the decision. Sporting purpose is NOT the purpose of the second amendment. I'm not sure WHAT that wording had to do with the price of corn in Saskatoon.

I think the 3" judge makes a pretty decent defensive weapon for home or car defense when loaded with 5 .36 caliber 000 buck loads. I'm thinkin' of it as five rounds from Bill Hickock's navy colt hitting at once. That said, I'd as soon use my.38. I ain't gonna run out and buy a Judge because I think it's so devistating with shot loads. :rolleyes: I have .45s that I don't use for home defense. I tend to favor a .38 revolver.

[Redhawk1]

Taurus Judge: answer to a question no one asked

Must be something to them, they are hard to get, and I know a lot of people with them. It may not be for you, but what do you worry about what others choose to spend there money on?????

[Ruodo]

Must be something to them, they are hard to get

Really? I see them everywhere. In fact its one of the few guns that I know I could easily find right now if I wanted to.

[Redhawk1]

Really? I see them everywhere. In fact its one of the few guns that I know I could easily find right now if I wanted to.

I did not say they were impossible to find, I said they are hard to get. I guess some areas have more than others.

[BhmBill]

BhmBill...a Thunder five? sweet! I wish they still made those, cool looking guns, the thunder five has been topic of many a conversation between me and one of my gun buddies. The last time I checked the the website it said "No more thunder fives"...bummer, I like the idea of being able to fire a 45/70 round out of it.

Yeah, I believe they went under last year in the spring or summer, i'm not sure though. It's really not that bad shooting .45-70 out of it, then again, I haven't shot any heavy or hot loads out of it. It's only accurate out to maybe 15 - 20ft with any load, but you dont always need to be able to drop a buffalo at 300 yards for a gun to be effective or fun.

Here's my Thunder Five. This is it with the black .45/.410 cylinder. I changed the trigger guard/handle with the black one that came with the .45/.410 cylinder (parts kit I got on GB for practically nothing). The black cylinder and trigger guard look really good with the green reciever.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8676/thunderfive.jpg

[atlanticfire]

Shot one at a local range, was not impressed. Would also label as gimmick gun.

[oldtoolsniper]

So what happens when you get a grain of sand in your eye? What happens when you burn your finger with a match? What do you do when you get a sliver in your finger? Those little ity bity things that happen everyday cause you to stop doing what you are doing and rectify the situation right now. It truly amazes me how many of you can keep going with a face full of birdshot, a load of OO buckshot or a .45 round stuffed into your person at a relatively moderate speed. I have thee combats tours under my belt 1st Gulf war and the one we are in now. Not many people were up and moving after the little tiny 9mm round or .223 round hit them, in fact zero of them continued to advance no matter where they were hit. Go smash your thumb with a hammer and then immediately try resuming what you were doing in a split second. It’s not like TV.

[Redhawk1]

Not a gemmick at all, they work and work well.

[Dimis]

redhawk where you at in delaware its not often i see one of us on a forum
im in Georgetown

[Redhawk1]

I am in Magnolia

[sksbob]

hello,just got some ammo from cabelas,its +p buffalo bore 300 gr,1325 fps,45lc and i think the salesman sold me the wrong stuff.now i been online and looking and from what i been reading it is WAY to hot,a ruger only load,do you all think this will work in da judge?? i think not!!all i wanted was a non cowboy load.not a judge destroyer!!what do yall think

[Redhawk1]

I would not use them, the thin walls in the cylinder of the Judge was not made for them. If you want a good non-cowbow load for your Judge, get the CCI Blazer 200 gr. JHP.
That is what I use in mine.

[Taurus_9mm]

An article on The Judge by Dick Metcalf (and the PT845). :)

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/ST_taurusbigboredblft_200812/

[gwlammers]

Hey Taurus 9mm. Good article. I have the magnum version of the Judge. I particularly like the following quote from the article....

"A 3-inch magnum, triple-ought .410 delivers five 70-grain .357-caliber lead bullets at about 1,100 fps from a 3-inch barrel Judge revolver with a pattern spread of about 7 inches at 12 feet and approximately 12 inches at 20 feet. So an assailant struck by a quick double-tap from this load from a short-barreled Judge is essentially being hit by 10 near-simultaneous .357-caliber slugs at greater than .38 Special +P velocities. Definitely lethal."

[punkndisorderly]

oldtoolsniper, though I respect your experience, and thank you for your service, I respectfully disagree.

There are many insances, both good and bad, of people struck multiple times with major caliber rounds, let alone .410 birdshot or .22s, that did indeed continue what it was that got them shot in the first place.

On the good, we have multiple instances of Congressional Medal of Honor winners that, even after being struck by rifle and pistol rounds or shrapnel from grenades, mortors, or arty that continued to fignt.

On the flip side, there are many instances of bad guys continuing the attack after being struck by several rounds or more. The Miami shootout jumps quicly to mind. Then there is this guy (warning, VERY GRAPHIC CONTENT) who was struck multiple times with .223 TAP ammo and .40 S&W Gold Dots.

http://www.liquibyte.com/image/officer.pdf

I would say that in the majority of civilian defensive situations, the sight of a gun will deter some attackers, being fired upon will stop many attackers, being hit with that fire (regardless of caliber) will stop most attackers. You can plan for some, many, most, or almost any situation. Your choice.