BHO mag follower for AK hi caps


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SSN Vet
July 18, 2007, 02:34 PM
any body know where I can get either the Chinese or Yugo AK mags (or mag followers) with the BHO tail end?

thanks in advance

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strat81
July 18, 2007, 03:24 PM
I picked up 7 Yugo BHO mags off the AR15.com equipment exchange about 2 months ago.

Rumor has it Falcon Arms will be doing a run of BHO followers this winter.

dstorm1911
July 18, 2007, 04:28 PM
Ya need the whole Mag as the mag bodies are different and the Yugo BHO won't work in a standard mag body..... as for the Chinese Type 68 mags ya just need $$ they run about $42 ea as they are very rare since the T-68 was basically a full auto SKS that used AK type mags it was never imported in anything but parts sets and the 20 rnd mags bring a premium as they are original collector pieces.....

Navy87Guy
July 18, 2007, 09:23 PM
I've modified all my AK mags so the followers rise all the way up. Some are much better at holding the bolt than others. I can tell where the bolt impinges on them -- they are starting to get a pretty deep mark. I have a couple with a squared shoulder and they have more contact. The TAPCO plastic followers have the right shape, but after a few uses the edge is rounded over and the bolt goes home.

It's ironic that Falcon lists followers and base plates among their best sellers, but they won't take the manufacturing time to produce them. Somewhere there's a crossover on the profit curve for lots of low price items and fewer higher priced ones. I can't imagine it would be that hard or take that long to knock out a run of baseplates and followers to meet the demand.

Jim

dstorm1911
July 18, 2007, 11:22 PM
"… yatta, yatta, yatta.

Not true. Why is it that anybody with a keyboard is an instant expert?"

I was refferin to outa the box Yadda yadda yadda as far as anyone with a keyboard... I don't know only been buildin AKs 15 years in fact....... we stock the largest inventory of original brand new AK parts in the countryfrom East germany, China, Russian, Bulgarian, Yugoslavia, Poland etc.. so hell.... no idea why........ Only been designin Aftermarket AK parts for a major supplier for the last 7 years....... must be the evil keyboard huh? Oh and ya might wanna visit a few dedicated AK sites same user I.D ya'll find ain't nothin instant bout me...... I've got a lil bit of a reputation for buildin some of the nicest rifles ya can buy..........

Oh and yes we do have a few hundred of the T68 mags they are my personal favorite as I like the shorter 20s for Yugo underfolders..... pretty much all I use myself so I bought all Don would let go of the rest are for his 4 registered T68 rifles........

Now if the poster wants to get into cuttin and welding he can simply make his own BHO followers very easily but I was assuming he was lookin at a drop in replacement.....


Dstorm the instant expert who has maintained an 01 FFL, SOT2 and O7 for the last 10 years just in case I felt like building a few machine guns........ or few hundred

Coronach
July 19, 2007, 01:33 AM
1. Everyone chill.

2. Can someone answer this: what is the point of these followers? I mean, I understand the BHO feature, but am I correct in saying that once you drop the mag, the bolt will go back into battery? Or is there something to prevent this?

Thanks,

Mike

Navy87Guy
July 19, 2007, 06:29 AM
2. Can someone answer this: what is the point of these followers? I mean, I understand the BHO feature, but am I correct in saying that once you drop the mag, the bolt will go back into battery? Or is there something to prevent this?

There's a two part answer.

The point is that you positively know when the magazine is empty, as opposed to pulling the trigger and hearing "click" - then not knowing whether you're empty or having a malfunction. I think a lot of people (myself included) who are brought up on semi-auto pistols and/or AR's like that.

As far a keeping the bolt open, you are correct - removing the mag releases the bolt. The standard thing is to notch the selector lever. Once the bolt locks open on the magazine, you pull it back and hold it open with the selector lever. Obviously, you can reload with the bolt back or forward - it's all personal preference. The notched selector is a nice feature at a range with the RO wants to see the bolt back and the action clear.

Jim

benEzra
July 19, 2007, 09:29 AM
As far a keeping the bolt open, you are correct - removing the mag releases the bolt. The standard thing is to notch the selector lever. Once the bolt locks open on the magazine, you pull it back and hold it open with the selector lever. Obviously, you can reload with the bolt back or forward - it's all personal preference. The notched selector is a nice feature at a range with the RO wants to see the bolt back and the action clear.
I can see how BHO mags or a notched safety lever would be convenient for "showing clear" at the range (I use a homemade action flag instead, made from a dowel), but it seems to me that having the action slam forward when you hit the mag catch would be distracting, and trying to use the lever like the BHO on an AR would actually slow down the reload/recharge process.

I can see how the let-you-know-when-it's-empty feature could be useful, though.

Do empty BHO mags still drop free when you press the mag catch, if the BHO is engaged?

benEzra
July 19, 2007, 10:54 AM
The magazine BHO function is replaced by the BHO function of the notched selector switch, if you have one. Otherwise, of course, the bolt carrier slams forward when the magazine is dropped, which can be disconcerting in the process of attempting a rapid reload.
So the tension on the mag from the bolt pressing against the follower isn't enough to hold the mag in place if you release the catch, then? (I would hope not.)

It isn't that it slows it down, so much as it gives the operator more control.

Quote:
You expend the last round …

The magazine follower goes all the way up …

The piston drives the bolt carrier backwards, where it catches the bolt on the back face of the magazine follower …

You click the selector up so that the notch engages the bolt carrier op handle …

You drop the empty magazine and reload …

You drop the selector down off of the bolt carrier op handle …

The bolt carrier flies forward, driving the bolt and the gas piston forward and stripping off the first round of the fresh magazine and chambering it.
OK, makes sense. I could see how that could be useful if you are stowing the empty mag instead of dropping it, as well.

Just for me, I think manipulating the safety during a mag change would slow things down quite a bit; I've found that what works for me is to hit the mag catch with the fresh mag and let the empty drop, insert the new mag, then yank the charging handle from underneath with the reloading hand (strong hand stays on the pistol grip), like this (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/combatcamera4671/?action=view&current=TacticalMagazineChange.flv). But that technique does require dropping the empty. If you are reloading with retention, I think you are right that using the BHO mag/notched safety probably wouldn't slow you down. Do you typically charge the rifle and operate the safety/selector with your trigger hand, or your support hand?

dstorm1911
July 19, 2007, 11:31 AM
I'll add some pics later of the different followers, if ya can do some minor fabricating its not hard to duplicate them with standard followers, I don't have any pics on the puter of mag followers but here is a customers Rommy G kit with the notched Selector lever, I do em as standard with builds if folks want theres done, The yugos did some right from the arsenals....

As far as mag changes as already mentioned ya engage the selector before removing the mag, The idea is to effectivly use cover to do your mag swaps loseing an issued mag was very bad in the Romanian Army, One of my cousins was whipped across his back(knotted telephone cords about 5 ft long and 10 strands to the whip, they covered his back with salt while 4 fellow soldiers had to hold his arms/legs spread eagle face down as a 5th fellow soldier did the whipping... if the soldier stopped before all the salt was dissolved he got the same himself... the scars are pretty gruesome) for leaving his rifle in a vehicle when he exited while in training if a seargent found onea your mags (the soldiers in the regular army where issued 7 mags with the rifle they had to etch the rifles last 3 digits on those mags so the correct soldier could be punished if one was found) another of my cousins told me about watching a drill instructor beat a trainee with a mag pouch holding 2 loaded mags in it because the soldier had dropped his empty on the ground and proceeded to advance without picking it up first..... The communist did not tollerate the American GAMER method of just tossing away mags for the sake of speed........... when re-supply arrives they will have plenty of ammo but no replacement mags it was your duty to treat an empty mag like your life depended on it......... because it would once ya ran outa mags from tossin em away ya were dead as now ya had no way to use your weapon.......

When myself (9 years US Army) and my Uncle and 7 cousins (by marriage) get together its tough for me to tell any of our "War stories" all 8 of these men have scars from their boot camp..... life under a murderous dictator who's brother ran the Military if a single soldier failed it was the Seargents who got punished severally so they had good insentive to be very strict in training... ya never left your weapon out of arms reach unless ordered to do so and you NEVER dropped or left any of your issued gear on the ground... ever

dstorm1911
July 19, 2007, 03:59 PM
O.K didn't go into the shop today but do have a bunch of T68 mags layin around here and some Yugo mags so went ahead and took ya'll some pics of each, as ya can see the T68 is the easiest to copy and it doesn't require messing with the mag body as the Yugo does etc...

I threw a hungarian 20 rnder in there for comparison purposes..its way hot here in Tucson today so I hadda just hurry and get ya'll some pics before I melted so sorry if they don't come out real great..

dstorm1911
July 19, 2007, 04:03 PM
continued from last post....... as ya can see the T68 mag followers don't require grinding out the stop dimples while the Yugo style do..... the T68 type can be made simply by bending a piece of sheet metal then welding it to the mag follower over the existing offset dummy the Chinese punch out the edges of the follower to negate the dimples in the mag body (note the cutouts in the pic of the two followers from the top, the same cutout on both sides of the follower even though it doesn't show in the pic)


BTW, Notice I mark my personal mags to keep them with their particular rifles it also helps at public ranges to verify which mags are mine...... Any goos steppin Seargant wants to give me cr@p bout my mags hittin the ground (note the sand in the T68 mag- nope its not rust I dropped as it got super hot just in the few minutes I was settin up to take the pics) then I'd just have to emty a few out for him...... in him....... same difference ;)

Have fun an try not to set any garages on fire ;)

Don't Tread On Me
July 19, 2007, 04:39 PM
Solution to problem that doesn't exist.


-->

Coronach
July 19, 2007, 04:52 PM
My off the cuff thought is that tha BHO combined with a safety selector with a notch AND the finger (or thumb) switch should be pretty fast, actually.

I envision the drill would be like this:

Run weapon dry. Bolt locks back on the BHO follower.

Use firing hand to flip selector up, engaging the selector's BHO, while the support hand retrieves the full magazine.

Knock empty mag out, rock replacement into place.

Support hand returns to grip while firing hand flips safety back off, dropping bolt and chamnering a round.

That sound about right?

Gewehr98
July 19, 2007, 05:40 PM
With the BHO mag followers and tweaked safety selector, is it that much faster than this technique(Which I've been practicing in my garage for the last few days)? :confused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz5LPaMhlOc

benEzra
July 19, 2007, 07:52 PM
Gewehr98,

As I see it, it depends on whether you want to drop the empty mag on the ground or not.

I can see how a BHO wouldn't slow you down if you were retaining the mag in the normal fashion, but if you can drop the mag, then it's faster IMHO to just knock the empty mag out, insert the new one, and rack the bolt with the same hand, leaving the strong hand in firing position.

Personally, my preference for "reload with retention" is to drop the mag on the ground while getting the weapon reloaded as fast as possible, then pick up the dropped mag from a crouch if/when it's safe to do so. If you are crouching to reload anyway, the mag isn't going far.

I can see "don't ever drop the mags" for a military unit that's operating far from support for extended periods, but for civilian applications, dropping the empty mag probably isn't something to worry about. (Unless, of course, you are in a post-Katrina situation and are standing knee-deep in murky water, in which case you'd better not drop the mag if you might need it later...)

FWIW, I saw that same video a few weeks ago, practiced it for a week, and then shot my first carbine match. None of the stages required retention or shooting to an empty magazine, so the knock-and-rock technique worked very, very well for me. There's no way to time it, but just watching others, I think I was about as fast on the mag change as most of the AR guys (certainly not significantly slower).

MudPuppy
July 19, 2007, 08:33 PM
I'll look when (if...lol) I get home, but I have some mags that have the squared off followers. There are dimples in the mag body that keep it from riding up and working as a BHO device, but those can be dremeled off. I know the chinese are like that, but I *think* I have some/several euros like that too. hmm..

I've also seen posts from folks that have made their own with an empty casing and JB or some epoxy--but that seems like a jam waiting to happen at the worst possible time (but they swear by it)

As for notched safeties, Mako security makes one with an oversized finger ledge on the bottom that's awful nice. I'll look at my Yugo krink safety to see if it is like that, but it for sure has the notch (from the factory)

Coronach
July 19, 2007, 08:35 PM
Gewehr98, I would say it would be faster, yes, though I don't know about "that much". Since you're practicing the technique, I'm sure you're aware of how much time it takes from the moment you get the mag rocked in to the moment that you get your support hand back on the handguard. Not a huge amount of time, but it's there. Looking at your left hand, you could go from mag-rock straight back to the handguard firing grip. How much time does that trim?

Or, run the drill the way you would with an unaltered AK, then run the drill again, just using your index finger to mimic moving the selector up and down. You essentially cut that last step out, since you can be doing the safety/selector/BHO actions with your right hand while your left hand does something else.

Mike

AK103K
July 19, 2007, 08:36 PM
Solution to problem that doesn't exist.
I agree 110%.

That's a matter of opinion. If you ever had to use an AK type rifle in a defensive scenario and shot to lockback, you'd probably find yourself appreciating a BHO function and training. It sure does make the AR a bighter platform.
This is really just a training issue. All these "gizmos" do nothing in the real world, and actually cause problems.

Just because a rifle does not have a BHO does not mean its inferior, it just doesnt have a BHO. I always thought the argument was silly. The rifle stops running, you reload it and start over. Whats the big deal? If anything, you ALWAYS know the rifle that doesnt have a BHO is loaded after you reload, because you ALWAYS recharge it, empty or not. I've had M16's and AR's that dropped a bolt on an empty mag more than a few times. How do you know for sure its loaded after the mag swap? If anything, the AK has taught me to recharge everything with a closed bolt after a mag change. Its the only way to be sure.

The biggest thing here is, learn to run the AK as an AK. Dont try to make it an AR, because its not. With a little practice, the AK is not at all difficult to reload quickly if you need to, and closer to a M16 reload than you might think. Put those BHO mags in there and try to fiddle with non spec selector levers while trying to do a mag change seems to me like your making it MUCH more difficult than it need be. You dont need those silly batwing releases either. :)

Coronach
July 19, 2007, 08:42 PM
Also, this mag change, if done properly and as fast as possible, still has to be slower than a comparable discard-the-empty AR mag change, also done properly and as fast as possible. This is because the AR mag can be dropped while the support hand retrieves the replacement mag. The AK mag waits in the magwell and has to be knocked out by the replacement magazine. There's a fraction of a second (at best) for that extra move to be accomplished that will always be there for the AK, whereas the AR magazine can just be slammed home. Straight insertion is also probably faster than rocking it into place.

I freely admit that it's not a huge difference in time, and individual skill can easily trump the delay caused by the AK system (read: someone who can really run an AK and uses that drill will probably toast your average AR user).

Mike

Gewehr98
July 19, 2007, 09:01 PM
I got over that hang-up years ago via the military and my IPSC days. I don't have the 300 AK mags I used to, but I still have a lot of 'em, and they're plenty stout enough to hit the ground when empty. So when I knock-and-rock them, they go for a ways, making quite a clatter.

I'm not going to make a YouTube video, but the mag change and bolt rack sequence is getting smoother and quicker. I'll have to start practicing in the back yard, because my wife keeps telling me to knock off the clatter. :D

AK103K
July 19, 2007, 09:13 PM
The AK mag waits in the magwell and has to be knocked out by the replacement magazine. There's a fraction of a second (at best) for that extra move to be accomplished that will always be there for the AK, whereas the AR magazine can just be slammed home. Straight insertion is also probably faster than rocking it into place.
I have 4 AK's, and every one will 99% of the time drop a mag free, without assistance, when the release is pushed. With some mags, lowering the muzzle slightly or a quick rearward yank will drop a hung mag.

Your right about the straight insertion, but with practice, the rock isnt all that slow, and other than trying to win the clock race, I really dont see that the time difference really matters in the real world.

Coronach
July 19, 2007, 09:18 PM
Here's a question:

does removing the dimples, via Dr. Dremel, adversely affect performance in any way, either with BHO followers or with standard ones?

Thanks,

Mike

Coronach
July 19, 2007, 09:22 PM
I have 4 AK's, and every one will 99% of the time drop a mag free, without assistance, when the release is pushed. With some mags, lowering the muzzle slightly or a quick rearward yank will drop a hung mag.Even so, the spent magazine is still there while when the full magazine arrives. The mag whack seems to be a one step move, tripping the mag release and assisting the spent magazine clear. Or are you somehow hitting the mag release earlier in the process, and allowing the spent mag to drop free while the fresh one is being retrieved? I guess the real issue is how the mag release is getting pressed, if not by the support hand. "Bat-wing" extended mag release?I really dont see that the time difference really matters in the real world.I tend to agree. Done well, both are really really fast.

Mike

AK103K
July 19, 2007, 09:42 PM
If I want to quickly drop the mag, I just hit the release with the middle finger of my hand on the grip. I dont have big hands and I have no troubles reaching it. (I also use the middle finger for the selector, also with my hand on the grip.) You can easily dump the mag while reaching for the new one, or while its on the way to the well, for that matter.

One thing I do to all my AK's when I first get them is, take a jewelers file to the mag release and lightly "break" the edges where the tail on the mag contacts the release. The release is a stamping that usually has a sharp edge from the stamping process. This edge tends to grab the mag and usually needs to be dressed up. This makes the release much smoother and easier. I've had a couple that took a lot of effort to release when new until this was done.

AK owners also need to be aware of the catastrophic stoppage due to an improper mag change. Its usually not an issue if you use your left hand (right handed shooter) to do the change, but it can happen all the same. If you dont insert the mag properly, and catch the front of the mag completely on the well, it will still rock to the rear and lock. Trouble is, its now stuck in the well, and will not release with the release, and will not strip a round off the mag to load the gun. The only way I've found to get it out is to put the butt on the ground and kick it out. Sounds brutal, but it works. I learned about this from someone who was cross trained by our military using Russian manuals. At the time, the Russians taught the "switch hands" method and loaded using the right hand (right hand shooter). I didnt believe it until I tried it ( I always loaded with my left and never had an issue), and basically had to force it to happen. It was an experience I would not wish to happen again, especially under stress, but at least I learned how to deal with it.

dstorm1911
July 19, 2007, 11:52 PM
AK103,....... uhhh bud those BHO mags are and were military issue as is the BHO Selector BTW, they were standard on later Yugo AKs and standard from Day one with the M92 Yugo so I really don't know where ya are gettin non spec from???? could ya enlighten us please? The Chinese instituted the BHO mag because soldiers in the heat of combat would engage an enemy with an empty weapon...... thats generally considered a bad thing same reason why the Serbs went to BHO mags but then ya probably got that super human trained by T.V habit of accuratly counting your shots in full auto while all hells breakin loose around ya huh?

Figured it hadda be the case, well in real life combat #1 ya don't generally get to just stop cause ya wanna swap out a full mag for another full mag #2 if your bolt locks back on the last shot (and with the utter simplicity of the AK BHO mag it has no choice but to lock open) then ya know beyond a shadow of a doubt that ya needa get your a$$ behind solid cover right now cause ya are pointin an empty rifle at the enemy.......... ya know since the vast majority of soldiers on an adrenalyn rush have much success counting shots fired while tryin to keep their head outa the way of incomming ordinance from the opposition.........

Oh and BTW......... time does stop when the world starts blowin up around you..... an hour can pass and it will feel like minutes...

benEzra
July 20, 2007, 12:35 AM
If I want to quickly drop the mag, I just hit the release with the middle finger of my hand on the grip. I dont have big hands and I have no troubles reaching it. (I also use the middle finger for the selector, also with my hand on the grip.) You can easily dump the mag while reaching for the new one, or while its on the way to the well, for that matter.
Compared to me, you apparently have large hands. My fingers aren't long enough to do that.

Gewehr98
July 20, 2007, 02:33 AM
I'd take that sage advice.

Mr. Dstorm, we know you're in business to sell these neat things. We also know that many conscripts, for example, Soviets, didn't have the benefit of a BHO mag with their bazillion Kalashnikovs.

How, then, did they ever expect to make it through the Fulda Gap when the balloon went up? It appears they were doomed before they started, sans BHO mags. ;)

(Just sayin', from the view of a fellow 20-year military vet...)

dstorm1911
July 20, 2007, 09:30 AM
Gewehr98, I was simply addressing AK103's assertion the mags and selector are non mil-spec while in fact they are and no I do not sell these things, I sold my design for a Yugo based selector that I had also added a Trigger finger operating shelf to a major distributer 2 years back but at the prices they charge...... I don't see em sellin many and if they did I don't see any of the profits, I add the cutout to Selectors of rifles I build for people as a SAFTY feature as it provides a means for them to keep the bolt open while shooting on public ranges and in the event of a failure to extract etc....

The BHO mags were designed by the Yugo military, the Chinese did it before them, we don't sell any as......... well all of the ones we imported are in my personal collection feeding 317 different AKs ;) Yep I just kept all the BHO Yugo mags we got to supliment the few hundred T68 mags I've been using for bout 14 years..... we don't sell a single one...... However they are a very good idea and no they are not a "gizmo" as put forward by AK103 they were introduced for a very specific reason which BTW had nothing to do with fast mag changes it was due to the problem of soldiers confronting an enemy with an empty chamber......

The modified selector will actually slow down those who are looking for a lightening fast mag swap........ I haven't said anything about all those "experts" who have been stating that ya simply flick the selector up with your finger before removing the mag because ..... well it was funny to read and very clear they had never actually used a rifle with the noytched selector because in order for it to work...... ya gotta pull the bolt back with your left hand about 1.5" ..... then ya can flip it up...... ya can't cut the notch far enough forward to allow it to simply be flipped up with the finger as there is not even close to enough metal as the tip of the selector is all ya have to work with if the mag has locked the bolt open........ but for the sake of not embarrasing anyone ........... ya see some folks who spend way to much time in front of a puter and not enough time actually useing these weapons will look at a picture and think they got it all figured out enough to be able to make statements "based on their experience" the problem is..... ya gotta actually go get an AK outa the closet look at the picture I posted of the notched selector then draw back your bolt handle till the bolt is at the rear of a mag....... now ya actually get to see that the notched selector is not actually usable for high speed gamer reloads but simply a safty feature which requires both hands to operate.......... same way the Yugos intended it to be...... but folks won't bother they will simply go with how they envision it works and walla based on their experience.......

Anyhow, the info is available above for those who want it, there are just a few too many "experts" in the thread and anything I might add that is based on actual real facts is going to contradict what those "experts" want to try and pass off as experiences so better if I just drop myself outa the thread.... I needa go play with some actual REAL AKs so ya'll have a beutiful day :)

SSN Vet
July 20, 2007, 03:36 PM
Wow!!!

thanks for all the replies and the "lively" discussion.

but once again, I've learned something on THR....

with the noytched selector because in order for it to work...... ya gotta pull the bolt back with your left hand about 1.5" ..... then ya can flip it up...... ya can't cut the notch far enough forward to allow it to simply be flipped up with the finger as there is not even close to enough metal as the tip of the selector is all ya have to work with if the mag has locked the bolt open.

this is exactly what I was wondering....

I'm just an average Joe...

I'm not a 3 gun guy, (or any other type of competitor)

I doubt I'll ever discharge one, let alone 30 rounds in "heated combat" with the rifle...

If I tried to re-load my converted Saiga that fast....I'd surely drop something...

I'm not really planning on doing extensive training with the rifle.

I have two objectives.....

1. to be able to leave the rifle on the bench with the bolt locked open as a courtesy to the other shooters on the range, when a cease fire is called.

2. to never ever ever hear "click" when I need to hear "bang"

I did not re-install the stock internal, manual, Saiga BHO (wich has nothing to do with the selector) for this reason....

even after making positively sure that it was fully engaged (not just the bolt momentarily hung up on the hammer), if I held the rifle in the vertical position and even lightly tapped the but of the stock on the ground, the manual BHO releases and the bolt slams shut.

I'm interested in the notched selector BHO to address #1.

I'm interested in the follower BHO to address #2 above.

Can anyone tell me if the notched selector provides a "sure and positive" lock on the charging handle, that won't come free untill the operator toggles the selector back to fire?

I'm not implying the AK needs anything or commenting on any one elses set up.

This is my rifle and I'm setting it up to address my needs, desires and preferences. You all can do with yours what you see fit.

MudPuppy
July 20, 2007, 04:56 PM
If that's your goals, get some yugo mags from centerfire and the selector from makosecurity--it is a solid bho "device". :)

dstorm1911
July 20, 2007, 06:31 PM
SSV Vet........ yes it is a VERY solid positive lock and as an added bonus the safty is also engaged, As I'd told ya in your initial PM a very cheap ($20) way to get one if ya don't wanna cut your own is to simply order a Yugo M92 Selector, they are factory cut for the BHO and are a direct drop in for a 1 mm thick reciever, for a 1.5 mm reciever ya need to very slightly open the gap on the backside of em....... 2-3 swipes with the wifes fingernail file will do the job.... The rifle I used as an example had to have the BHO notch as the owner lives in Deleware and the only public range requires a positive bolt lock to keep the bolt in the open while not on the fireing line...... they could not even take the rifle on the range property unless it could be locked open....... the notch met the range rule requirments perfectly.. and when the range master tested it the first time by striking the bolt handle he was very happy it didn't budge..... that is currently the only AK rifle period allowed at that range but folks have asked its owner how to get theires modified so they can also use them on the range..... I've given them all the same advise bout just buyin the Yugo M92 selector as a milspec part that drops right in etc... rather than rackin up fee's shipping rifles in etc... when its totally unnecessary.... 30 seconds to swap em and your done

W.E.G.
July 20, 2007, 06:40 PM
This guy seems rather unconcerned about the absence of the hold-open function.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-RgH6tHgyvY

AK103K
July 20, 2007, 06:56 PM
dstorm1911,

I still stand by what I said. Perhaps you should reread it. I never said the mags were not mil spec, just a comment towards the selector, as all of the ones I've seen, have not been. You seem to be enamored with the Yugo stuff, and thats cool. I personally dont see the point, nor do I see that its a desirable thing, but thats me. I've never had any problems working the AK as it comes. I may not have hundreds of AK's, but I do shoot the few I have on a fairly regular basis, and I'm pretty familiar with how they work. I've even played with "real" AK's, just like you. Like I said, the gun stops shooting you reload. A dead trigger is a dead trigger, BHO or not, and when your concentrating on what your shooting, under stress, you still get a dead trigger when the bolt locks back, and you do the same thing you do with a gun that doesnt have a BHO. ;)

Regardless, empty or not, I always reload when theres an opportunity, and I always work the charging handle when I do if the bolt is closed, AK, M16, whatever. How about you? Or do you wait for the "Oh Scheiße!" moment, when the gun is empty to reload?

Just because something is available, doesnt mean its a spec item, and "most' of what I've seen of the aftermarket "gizmos" out there for the AK, to me, the majority are questionable at best. YMMV, especially if your planning on making money off them.

Your so right about the experts. Funny how most will tell you you need a lot of stuff you dont in order to be able shoot your gun. If you just spend all that money wasted on junk on more ammo, and practice a little, you might actually find you can shoot the gun as it comes. ;)

ancient_philosophy
July 20, 2007, 08:08 PM
the BHO mags SUCK......ive got almost 400 AK mags....and i pawn those junkers off on other people.

since the bolt drops when you release the mag, theyre STUPID. :scrutiny: :scrutiny: :scrutiny: :scrutiny:



get real AK mags.... hungarian 40 rounders on sale everywhere for $20 each.

dstorm1911
July 21, 2007, 12:51 PM
W.E.G the guy in the video did it awhile back he was promoting a mag grip that he was selling that slips over the rifle mags on AK files when asked by several users

"so what do ya do when you run out of magazines" his reply was "well go back and pick them up later"

The guy has absolutally zero combat experience and is only concerned with GaAME Times...... if ya don't have to still be able to actually FIGHT then its fine, dirt in the mag body jamming up your follower or being completally outa mags etc... doesn't matter in make believe shooting competitions in the real world it will get ya killed he is also dumpin mags that are still holding 5 rnds in each BTW.......... personally with a couple hundred Chicom drums sittin on the shelf....... I wouldn't bother ;)

AK103, After all the arsenals I've been privledged to visit around the world during 14 years of acting as an agent for onea the largest importers in the country... yes I am most impressed with the workmanship and Quality control standards found at Zastava, The Yugo's severally over engineered their weapons........ did em little good when they decided to erradicate the Croation part of the population but still some of the highest quality standards to be found anywhere, they pay extra attention to minor details that others handle as hindsight.....

BTW here are a few pics of onea my favorite rifles, this is the very first Yugo M70AB2 I ever built it rides across my back while blasing across the desert on a Husky 500 two stroke, I always use a T-68 in the rifle as its easier while on sling runnin a big bike jumping washes etc... the mags in the shoulder pouch are all Yugo 30 RND BHO mags its teamed up with any of several handguns but most usually a Springfield Armoury XD 40 Tactical 5"

Where I live at we are literally right next to the Mexico Border and up against BLM land that the drug smugglers and Illegal aliens coyotes use as a super highway to come into the USA, I patrol my own land as well as a couple thousand acres of the BLM land a few times aday primarily trying to create a buffer zone between my property particularily my home and the paths used by these folks... I've been in countless skirmishes with smugglers in the last few years many Times we get cought in the middle of fire fights between competing smugglers........ I don't play shooting games nor worry bout the coolest current gear trends etc... the bike and sand rail are camoed, I were beatup ol cowboy boots and Wranglers no trendy wannabe tacticool crap to restrict my movements or cause me to become over heated etc...

So far I've been able to get by with only 3 fatalities over the years primarily because the adversary generally realizes they are not dealing with the normal parading couch patato "Minute men" type they generally make jokes of etc... When I do fire a weapon it is VERY accurate aimed fire and usually enough to dissuade further effort on their part, I used to call the Border patrol but in the last year or so they've shown so little intrest in trying to prevent such activity I don't even bother anymore...... my guns MUST operate reliably in super fine wind blown sand environment, they are going to get banged around and beaten not pampered, If I mis a jump over a wash and drop the bike (has happened a few times the monsoons alter the terrain with every storm so ya never know how solid the banks are) I need that rifle to not fire the round which is in the chamber at all times......... If there is a failure I need to be able to clear it and a Bolt hold open selector makes that much easier..

The BHO Selector on this particular rifle BTW is as it came directly from ZASTAVA...... thats not one of my modified ones but an original.



The 1300 deffender is an example of what anyone entering our immediate yard will be met with if uninvited (within the total property we have 4 acres chainlinked off for the house) there is an exact duplicate of this svatter gun concealed in every room of the house and everyone living here or any of my employees who work here on a regular basis all know exactly where each is and how to use it.......... ea is loaded with 2 #4 Buck rounds first out next we go to 4 00 buck rnds the last round is a slug with 5 more 00 on the stock...

If I gotta play games beyond that...... I got 4300 more milsurps in the vaults below......... its gonna be a hell of a fireworks show :)

AK103 the BHO Selector takes absolutally nothing away from the AK platform it does however add quite a few advantages....... simple but then if ya've never had to try to clear a stuck case from a chamber while bein shot at ya probably would never understand anyway...................

dstorm1911
July 21, 2007, 05:22 PM
Oh and by the way if ya do need super fast reloads.......... then why even bother reloading at all if I can't neutralize a threat within 75 rnds without bein able to at least get myself to solid cover then I might as well give them the rifle and see if they can put it to better use than me.....

AK103K
July 21, 2007, 05:47 PM
Shooting it like that, it wont be long before someone takes it. :)

Drakejake
July 21, 2007, 06:05 PM
Some time ago I dremeled the bumps off the inside of my Chinese mags and got the BHO feature. Do you need to remove the safety lever to notch it? If so, is this hard to do?

Thanks,

Drakejake

dstorm1911
July 21, 2007, 09:09 PM
Yes ya need to remove the selector to cut the notch, very simple with just a dremel or even a hacksaw etc... with the dremel use a cutoff wheel to make the two end cuts first then the wheel should be reduced in size so ya can make the bottom cut then use a pliers to work the piece back and forth to break it loose finish up with a file....

F-S These guys will carry anything from Glenfield .22s with the butt sawed off (very popular, I believe mostly cause they are cheap) Ya find alot of Glocks and alot of SKSs and semi as well as F/A MACs and UZIs the last few years have seen more AKs last year we had one who fancied himself a sniper...... had all the latest tacticool nylon, had him a real pretty Charles Daily stainless 1911 to go with his Savage 110......... he just hadn't realized there was more to bein a sniper than buyin all the pretty camo gear and mountin a Bushnell 4-12x42 scope on your rifle......... ya also needa know how to remain very very still for hours on end less the guy lookin at ya through the spottin scope from 735 yards out might start plantin 600 grn slugs from a Barret M82 right under your nose........... but for a couple days he did make things entertaining........ no he wasn't a fatality he is however serving 8 years in the Arizona Department of Corrections, decided he didn't like that pretty Savage 110 so much and tossed it after bein bracketed with 3 .50s and no clue where they were commin from ;)

Have also been sued twice for shootin up water jug stashes found on my property, the liberals (who are trespassin BTW to hide the water jugs) tried to push the endangerment angle of me depriving these criminals of water in the desert.... In both cases I showed that all they hadda do was stop hideing and step out to the road there is plenty of water at each of the pumping stations and the Border patrol officers constantly cruisin around all have 3 5 gallon jugs in their vehicles etc...... just gotta stop breakin the law and ya can have all the water ya need..........

But I still get lots of target practice everytime I go out, kinda handy actually as I could never haul 10 one gallon jugs on the bike out into the desert just to use for practice........

O.K Nough bein off topic, ya'll have fun

MudPuppy
July 22, 2007, 10:57 AM
All you need to do to notch the safety is pull the bolt back to the rear, slide the safety up and mark it with a sharpie or a scribe or something to the front and rear of the charging handle. That'll be the guide for how big the cut will be.

Then pull the top cover and bolt/recoil spring. You should be able rotate the safety up (counter clockwise as you face the safety) and it'll slide out of its notch.

here's the mako style: (http://www.makosecurity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SWIFT&Category_Code=)

BHO or not, that oversized finger tab looks like a huge improvement.

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