AR/AK compairison


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target1911
July 20, 2007, 09:32 AM
Did anyone see the show on the Militarr Channel yesterday????
WOW...It was very much full of info and even some great slow motion video clips.
It talks about how/why they were created...accuracy...reliability...etc
Great show

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Sergeant Sabre
July 20, 2007, 01:38 PM
Did it settle the debate, once and for all? :D

target1911
July 20, 2007, 02:16 PM
it basicly comes down to what everyone has said...
AK if you want a gun that will still shoot even tho there is a swamp in the chamber.......
AR if you want to hit your target over 100yrds...

the cool thing about the show was how they showed the guns bein shot in slow motion....that was cool cuz you can see everything working and how the rifle reacts to full auto....
They also show what the bullets do on impact.

Torghn
July 20, 2007, 02:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0

Eightball
July 20, 2007, 02:28 PM
Seeing that (saw it a while back) made me rethink my advocacy for the AK platform; sorry, but if a weapon bends like that while firing, it's no WONDER it's not all that accurate.

Deer Hunter
July 20, 2007, 02:47 PM
Which AK were they fireing?

There's a bit of a difference between a WASR and something from a Russian arsenal.

nalioth
July 20, 2007, 03:09 PM
Seeing that (saw it a while back) made me rethink my advocacy for the AK platform; sorry, but if a weapon bends like that while firing, it's no WONDER it's not all that accurate.

The bolt locks into the trunnion at the moment of firing. The flexion of the receiver has no effect on accuracy.

The Soviets doctrine of 'massed fire' is to answer for the decreased accuracy in the design.

Nameless_Hobo
July 20, 2007, 03:16 PM
Remember, all barrels flex, it's just less noticable in the M16 because of the lighter cartridge. As said above, the bolt locks into place when firing.
The AK, when build right, is accurate enough. I keep around 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards with my scoped Saiga.
It's not a target rifle, but it's more than good enough for what the rifle is ment for.

Coronach
July 20, 2007, 03:54 PM
Also, as long as it flexes consistently, it matters less than you might think.

Mike

Baneblade
July 20, 2007, 07:13 PM
I love the M16/AR15 platform... however... After a severe dust storm in Iraq our M-16's were of no use, and the Iraqi "bunker" AK's we found still functioned. Not exactly a scientific test, but it made a point for us.

In the end, reliability wins over all other factors.

AK103K
July 20, 2007, 08:26 PM
For whatever its worth, I would have liked to have seen both shooters shoot both rifles. Neither shooter seemed to do to well, and from a rest yet.

W.E.G.
July 20, 2007, 08:30 PM
Forget the AR and AK.

Get a Nagant!!!

AK: It works though you have never cleaned it -- ever.
AR: You have $9 per ounce special non-detergent synthetic Teflon infused oil for cleaning.
MN: It was last cleaned in Berlin in 1945.

AK: You are able to hit the broad side of a barn from inside.
AR: You are able to hit the broad side of a barn from 600 meters.
MN: You can hit the farm from two counties over.

AK: Cheap magazines are fun to buy.
AR: Cheap magazines melt.
MN: What's a magazine?

AK: Your safety can be heard from 300 meters away.
AR: You can silently flip off the safety with your finger on the trigger.
MN: What's a safety?

AK: Your rifle comes with a cheap nylon sling.
AR: Your rifle has a 9 point stealth tactical suspension system.
MN: Your rifle has dog collars.

AK: Your bayonet makes a good wire cutter.
AR: Your bayonet is actually a pretty good steak knife.
MN: Your bayonet is longer than your leg.

AK: You can put a .30" hole through 12" of oak, if you can hit it.
AR: You can put one hole in a paper target at 100 meters with 30 rounds.
MN: You can knock down everyone else's target with the shock wave of your bullet going downrange.

AK: When out of ammo your rifle will nominally pass as a club.
AR: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a great wiffle bat.
MN: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club, pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood.

AK: Recoil is manageable, even fun.
AR: What's recoil?
MN: Recoil is often used to relocate shoulders thrown out by the previous shot.

AK: Your sight adjustment goes to "10", and you've never bothered moving it.
AR: Your sight adjustment is incremented in fractions of minute of angle.
MN: Your sight adjustment goes to 12 miles and you've actually tried it.

AK: Your rifle can be used by any two bit nation's most illiterate conscripts to fight elite forces worldwide.
AR: Your rifle is used by elite forces worldwide to fight two bit nations' most illiterate conscripts.
MN: Your rifle has fought against itself and won every time.

AK: Your rifle won some revolutions.
AR: Your rifle won the Cold War.
MN: Your rifle won a pole vault event.

AK: You paid $350.
AR: You paid $900.
MN: You paid $59.95.

AK: You buy cheap ammo by the case.
AR: You lovingly reload precision crafted rounds one by one.
MN: You dig your ammo out of a farmer's field in Ukraine and it works just fine.

AK: You can intimidate your foe with the bayonet mounted.
AR: Your foes laugh when you mount your bayonet.
MN: You can bayonet your foe on the other side of the river without leaving the comfort of your hole.

AK: Service life, 50 years.
AR: Service life, 40 years.
MN: Service life, 100 years, and counting.

AK: It's easier to buy a new rifle when you want to change cartridge sizes.
AR: You can change cartridge sizes with the push of a couple of pins and a new upper.
MN: You believe no real man would dare risk the ridicule of his friends by suggesting there is anything but 7.62x54R.

AK: You can repair your rifle with a big hammer and a swift kick.
AR: You can repair your rifle by taking it to a certified gunsmith and it's under warranty!
MN: If your rifle breaks, you buy a new one.

AK: You consider it a badge of honor when you get your handguards to burst into flames.
AR: You consider it a badge of honor when you shoot a sub-MOA 5 shot group.
MN: You consider it a badge of honor when you cycle 5 rounds without the aid of a 2x4.

AK: After a long day the range you relax by watching "Red Dawn".
AR: After a long day at the range you relax by watching "Blackhawk Down".
MN: After a long day at the range you relax by visiting the chiropractor.

AK: After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for a stiff shot of Vodka.
AR: After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for hotdogs and apple pie.
MN: After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for shishkabob.

AK: You can accessorize you rifle with a new muzzle brake or a nice stock set.
AR: Your rifle's accessories are eight times more valuable than your rifle.
MN: Your rifle's accessory is a small tin can with a funny lid, but it's buried under an apartment building somewhere in Budapest.

AK: Your rifle's finish is varnish and paint.
AR: Your rifle's finish is Teflon and high tech polymers.
MN: Your rifle's finish is low grade shellac, cosmoline and Olga's toe nails.

AK: Your wife tolerates your autographed framed picture of Mikhail Kalashnikov.
AR: Your wife tolerates your autographed framed picture of Eugene Stoner.
MN: You're not sure there WERE cameras to photograph Sergei Moisin.

AK: Late at night you sometimes have to fight the urge to hold your rifle over your head and shout "Wolverines!"
AR: Late at night you sometimes have to fight the urge to clear your house, slicing the pie from room to room.
MN: Late at night, you sometimes have to fight the urge to dig a fighting trench in the yard to sleep in.

RobMoore
July 20, 2007, 08:30 PM
+1 on shooter error
When you're jerking the trigger bad enough to visibly move a rifle around, you shouldn't be labeled an expert on a nationwide broadcast.

MechAg94
July 20, 2007, 11:40 PM
I noticed that also. His finger seemed to jerking back pretty hard. I think I have only shot my Vepr once at 200 yards, but I did better than that. I would have liked to see the groups at 100 yards for each shooter.

Some AK's have better triggers than others as well.

turdfergason
July 20, 2007, 11:52 PM
W.E.G. that is the funniest thing i have read in quite some time, thank you :)

SturmMackRuger
July 21, 2007, 12:20 AM
Yeah that AK shook like rubber. And the bolt on slow mo,, I thought it was going to break it shook so much.

Guitargod1985
July 21, 2007, 05:56 AM
Ha! The video refers to a rifle cartridge as a "rifle bullet." It's so amusing.

dstorm1911
July 21, 2007, 11:38 AM
AK Reciever doesn't have the same effect in Semi auto as the recoil pulses are not colliding, The same thing happens with ANY long reciever full auto just to different degrees....... Has ZERO effect on accuracy however since the front and rear sight are both mounted on the barrel NOT the reciever so the reciever can become a pretzel your sight alignment stays the same regardless.

Pretty amazing though that the AK reciever is so much tougher than the M16 reciever isn't it? Think bout it ya start twisting forged alluminum like that and your gonna get all kinds of stress fractures the AK........ simply riveted together.

So one question, Why would ya think an AK isn't accurate past 100 yards? I've got many many examples of AKs being used in competition out at 400 yards right alongside AR15s........ its very popular here in AZ to use an AK for 3 gun in fact most of my customers are very happy with their results at embarrasing the AR guys.............

Sonora Rebel
July 21, 2007, 12:11 PM
W.E.G... I laffed so hard I have tears in my eyes. That's hilarious! It's also TRUE!

I don't care much about punchin' holes in paper at 400 yards... What concerns me is gettin' some lead downrange in short order if/when the SHTF. That's why I have an illuminated 'dot' sight for target aquisition in the general area. I can wing it from there. I have 'em both on my AK and 'AR'. If I gotta do this for serious... I'll drag out the AK before the AR... especially in this desert. Full auto recievers/barrels react differently on single shot.

PRazz
July 21, 2007, 01:35 PM
W.E.G I laughed out loud at some of those. I liked the accessory being buried under an apartment building in Budapest. Priceless!

I've never considered the Mosin, but I chose an AK as my first serious rifle. I agree that reliability wins out above all others. On my budget it's the right choice, simple, cheap prices, and still looks like a new gun too. Hopefully it will go bang every time, I have little doubt.

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