[lgsracer]

Elder Bush's WWII revolver returned
He gave it to Navy officer on sub that rescued him after he was shot down
The Associated Press
Updated: 1:00 p.m. CT July 20, 2007

PHILADELPHIA - Former President George H.W. Bush got his World War II service revolver back Wednesday, 60 years after giving it to a Navy lieutenant aboard the submarine that rescued him when his plane was shot down over the Pacific Ocean.

Bush donated the revolver to the National Constitution Center the same day the son of late Lt. J.G. Albert Brostrom returned the .38-caliber Smith & Wesson and its leather shoulder holster to him.

Brostrom was the sonar man on the USS Finback, which rescued Bush, a Navy pilot, after he was shot down by Japanese anti-aircraft fire on Sept. 2, 1944. Brostrom brought the future president to the infirmary and later shared his bunk with him.

“It was a little grubby in there, but that’s how it was done in those days,” Bush said. He gave Brostrom the revolver in gratitude.

Ron Brostrom, 59, of Chester Springs, Pa., said his father never spoke to his family about the war, except for the kindness and sense of humor of the combat pilot who gave him the revolver.

“We only knew it was a 20-year-old lieutenant,” Ron Brostrom said.

The family did not realize who the pilot was until 1980 when Bush — then a vice-presidential candidate — announced he was looking for crew members from the submarine.

“Dad was kind of like, ’The kid did OK,”’ Brostrom said with a laugh.

Bush presented the gun to Constitution Center president and CEO Joseph Torsella for permanent display in the museum.

Bush is chairman of the center’s board of trustees. The Constitution Center, a nonprofit organization founded in 2003, contains more than 100 exhibits dedicated to increasing public understanding of the Constitution.
© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19873440/

[jaholder1971]

I hope George put a few rounds downrange with it before donating it...

[Jacka L Ope]

A perfect opportunity to posture pro 2nd Amendment missed. :rolleyes:

[Spot77]

I wonder which ffl did the transfer. :confused:

[Kali Endgame]

During WW2 could you give away issued guns or were they personaly owned?

[cloudcroft]

If it wasn't bought by him (not issued), it wasn't his to give. But I don't know if pilots carried revolvers then or the 1911.

If it WAS issued, he probably lied (his nature)...he'd have to have some explanation as to why he didn't have that government property anymore, like maybe a shark took it off him. ;)

-- John D.

[Thefabulousfink]

If it WAS issued, he probably lied (his nature)...he'd have to have some explanation as to why he didn't have that government property anymore, like maybe a shark took it off him.

I'm sure it was difficult to believe that a downed pilot had lost his revolver:
CO: Lieutenant, where is your sidearm?
Bush: It was here when I took off. That's funny, I seem to recall having a plane with me as well. I'm awfully sorry if I misplaced them.:D

[Sonic]

During WW2 could you give away issued guns or were they personaly owned?

Then as now all military issued weapons and equipment were U.S. Government property, and it is of course against military law for an individual soldier, sailor, or airman to sell or give away U.S. Government property. Of course during wartime the bending of rules for minor things (like a navy pilot giving his revolver to a navy sonarman, so the revolver effectively stayed in possession of the navy during the duration of the war) was more common and somewhat accepted.

Of course the revolver might have been personally purchased by Bush himself, since just knowing it was .38 revolver isn't enough information to tell whether it was government issue or personally purchased. During the war .38 revolvers were often purchased by both the government (see the historical small arms section of the US army's integrated logistical support center
http://tri.army.mil/LC/cs/csi/sahist.htm#38spec), and also individuals, since during WW2 and unlike today, the military openly tolerated personnel purchasing and using privately owned weapons in combat.


It was also possible for personnel to purchase certain service weapons (like revolvers, 1911 pistols, M1 and M1903 rifles, but of course no machineguns, grenades, etc.), sometimes even the specific weapon they had been issued, through their local PX.

If I had to take a wild guess, I would say the revolver was probably government issue rather than purchased by Bush. Pilots generally didn't feel as much a need to have a handgun as other combat personnel (like infantry or tank crews), and so were less likely to spend their own money on something they could get (though it might take a while) through the normal supply request channels, but again its just a wild guess.

[bg]

For what it's worth, when I was flying crew chief back in the 70's with OH-58's
and UH1-H and Mike's, they gave me a S&W 38 as a sidearm. We wore them
in a across the chest rig. I was never issued a 45 when flying. So I agree that
most aviators ran with the 38.

[drinkoj]

I'm sure it was difficult to believe that a downed pilot had lost his revolver:
CO: Lieutenant, where is your sidearm?
Bush: It was here when I took off. That's funny, I seem to recall having a plane with me as well. I'm awfully sorry if I misplaced them.

I don't care who you are or what political party you belong to, That was Funny!

[jkingrph]

[QUOTE]For what it's worth, when I was flying crew chief back in the 70's with OH-58's
and UH1-H and Mike's, they gave me a S&W 38 as a sidearm. We wore them
in a across the chest rig. I was never issued a 45 when flying. So I agree that
most aviators ran with the 38.
__________________[/QUOTE

When I was in USAF OTS in '69 all officers qualified with the 38 S&W. Later in mid 70's when at Eglin AFB the 9mm was undergoing testing. I do not know exact year the 9mm was adopted , but probably 1975 or later.

[Kali Endgame]

Igsracer,
Sorry about hijacking the thread.
Everyone else,
Thanks for answering my question. :rock:

[Onmilo]

Ditching your aircraft and losing your sidearm in the process.
These two things are more common than one might believe.

Personal weapons are like hand grenades in combat, expendable, nobody is going to push an answer to what happened to the weapon after the fact, well maybe now they will since the military is run like a giant police force instead of a military force.

[FieroCDSP]

It was somewhat customary at one point around the Korean War for a downed airman to offer his side-arm to the rescue helo pilots for their services, at least according to Dan McKinnon who was a chopper pilot from the early days. I'm pretty sure it was continued up through Vietnam.

[DMK]

From the stories I've read, handguns were commonly given away to comrades when someone was reassigned to a rear area or wounded.

I believe it was also common for officers to carry personally owned weapons. I've read a few accounts of some groups of officers (squadrons, special units, classes at academies, etc) purchasing weapons with motto's or insignias inscribed on them. In many other countries, officers were required to purchase their own sidearms.

[deanf]

If it WAS issued, he probably lied (his nature)

What in blue blazes is that supposed to mean?

[cracked butt]

Ditching your aircraft and losing your sidearm in the process.
These two things are more common than one might believe.

I personally knew a WWII airman whose service revolver was 'lost' when the B-25 he was serving on was shot down.

[GTSteve03]

A perfect opportunity to posture pro 2nd Amendment missed.
Trust me, they would rather ALL guns (other than military/police issued) be in museums.

[Alphazulu6]

I wonder which ffl did the transfer

HAHA.

Quote:
If it WAS issued, he probably lied (his nature)

What in blue blazes is that supposed to mean?


I believe he is talking about "read my lips" :D

[AndyC]

I think this is great - it's always nice to know something about the history of a particular firearm that was carried during a conflict.

[GRIZ22]

If it wasn't bought by him (not issued), it wasn't his to give. But I don't know if pilots carried revolvers then or the 1911.


Weapons accountability in wartime is not what it is in peacetime. I've never seen any negative comments on this forum when someone relates his father gave him the 1911 he had in WWII or the carbine he carried in Korea. Why should we be critical of Bush? As far as losing your revolver after ditching at sea it's utility would be questionable. I suppose there are some who could fight off a Japanese destroyer with a 38 but I'm not one of them.

Revolvers were used along with 1911s by pilots and others in WWII. If I recall it was a incident involving a sailor dropping a S&W revolver that discharged killing someone that provided the stimulus for S&W to introduce the safety blocking the hammer unless the trigger is pulled.

The Army found itself in need of a lot of more handguns with the advent of the airmobile concept in the 1960s. They bought a lot from S&W (mostly 4" Model 10s). These were in use by Army aircrews up to the introduction of the Beretta 92. The Air Force also used revolver up to the Beretta 92. I saw mostly Model 15s and 10s. A friend who was a Security Policeman in the 60's was issued a 4" Colt Commando (WWII version ofc the Official Police.

The Army felt a need for more handguns in WWI in trench warfare resulting in the S&W and Colt M1917 being introduced. As far as military issued handguns sprouted legs and leaving with their owners I read somewhere that half the handguns issued during WWI were never turned in and probably most of them went home with Grandpa.

[cbsbyte]

We all know Bush 41 is anti-gun for serfs, so I very much doubt he gave his service revolver to Brostrom. This is probably more BS created to make the Bush clan look pro American. He might have lost it during the crash which is entire crew was killed. He still has not answered for their deaths. Why he survived and the other perished know one will ever know but it is assumed he bailed out with out giving the others the warning to do so. Sounds like this is more of the fabricated story, he told to get out of the hot water surrounding his shooting down. He has told so many different versions of the story over the years he has forgotten what was the original version. Nice finishing touch on a corrupt career.

http://www.phonyfighterpilot.com/

[eltorrente]

We all know Bush 41 is anti-gun for serfs, so I very much doubt he gave his service revolver to Brostrom. He might have lost it during the crash which is entire crew was killed. He still has not answered for their deaths. Why he survived and the other perished know one will ever know but it is assumed he bailed out with out giving the others the warning to do so. Sounds like this is more of the fabricated story, he told to get out of the hot water surrounding his shooting down. Nice finishing touch on a corrupt career.


Are you kidding?!?! Is it possible to be MORE of an idiot than you already are?

You're one of the extremists that unfortunately populate our world. Angry, suspicous, paranoid, and uneducated. If you were a Muslim, you'd be one of the car-bombers or terrorists. If you were a German, you'd be a Nazi. If you were an American, you'd be a johnny reb redneck - oh wait.. nevermind..

Anyway, to sum up, youre post is ridiculous and you're pathetic jackass.

[cbsbyte]

Are you kidding?!?! Is it possible to be MORE of an idiot than you already are?

You're one of the extremists that unfortunately populate our world. Angry, suspicous, paranoid, and uneducated. If you were a Muslim, you'd be one of the car-bombers or terrorists. If you were a German, you'd be a Nazi. If you were an American, you'd be a johnny reb redneck - oh wait.. nevermind..

Anyway, to sum up, youre post is ridiculous and you're pathetic jackass.

Real high road buddy. :rolleyes:

Must of hit a nerve with a Bush lover. Please keep your personal comments to yourself, since no one else want read your rants. You don't know me from Adam so you accusations are so far of base it is not even funny. If you don't like what I wrote then correct me, not rant like a little girl.

If you were an American, you'd be a johnny reb redneck - oh wait.. nevermind.. That must be you, Johnny.

[eltorrente]

Real high road buddy.

Must of hit a nerve, talk about being a fool. Please keep your personal comments to yourself, since no one else want read your rants. You don't know me from Adam so you accusations are so far of base it is not even funny.

Hard to take the high road when there is such ignorant posters. You don't know anything about the incident, so you come up with a ridiculous delusional account of what happened.

At least my "rant" was based on the truth. :) Yours wasn't even close.

[GRIZ22]

He might have lost it during the crash which is entire crew was killed. He still has not answered for their deaths.

However you answered your own question. We don't know.

Why he survived and the other perished know one will ever know

it is assumed he bailed out with out giving the others the warning to do so.

When you break down "assume" you know what you get.

You can assume his crew couldn't get out due to battle damage so I suppose he should have went down with the aircraft?

I can assume Bill Clinton was a CIA operative carrying out clandestine missions in North Vietnam (okay that's stretching it) but that wouldn't make it valid.

We can assume a lot.

I imagine getting shot down off the coast of an enemy country is a bit traumatic. Any psychologist will tell you most people don't really remember what happens during a traumatic experience.

[cbsbyte]

Hard to take the high road when there is such ignorant posters. You don't know anything about the incident, so you come up with a ridiculous delusional account of what happened.

At least my "rant" was based on the truth

Your truth is based on what? The official text book truth? Come on your not that naive...are you? I posted a link to site which showed the controversy on the Bush 41 crash. It seems he changes the story all the time which makes people very curious why he has to do that, unless he happens to be hiding something. If you can't except the fact that there are a lot of unanswered questions about that mission than I can not help you see the light. You will believe what you wish, but that does not make what I say wrong. Maybe you don't like it, but that does not mean its not true. Your personal attack shows that you really are a small minded person who does not like to be provoked into thinking for yourself. There are too many people in this world that put blinders on, and march to the beat of the drum until they die, without ever stepping back and taking a look at what you are being fed. That I can not help you with, you will have to learn the hard way that the truth is not always clear, especially in this modern world.

[Wheeler44]

"Read my lips, no nude Texans"

[Sistema1927]

Three words:

Fog



of



War.

[Nolo]

cbsbyte appears to be pointing the Sheeple Laser at everyone.
Here's a thought: cbsbyte, you're following one of the same, narrow-minded paths that you claim to abhor so much, yours just happens to be newer. Stop thinking in black and white. It is possible that George Bush is not spawn of the Devil (I mean, come one! Give the Devil some credit!), and that, while he does some stupid/bad things, he's perfectly sincere. I for one think so.

[eltorrente]

Three words:

Fog



of



War.


+1

This says it all.

It was a war, not a conspiracy.

[Walter]

The Army felt a need for more handguns in WWI in trench warfare resulting in the S&W and Colt M1917 being introduced. As far as military issued handguns sprouted legs and leaving with their owners I read somewhere that half the handguns issued during WWI were never turned in and probably most of them went home with Grandpa.

My Grandfather was a soldier in the US Army in WWI. One of the few things
he told me about his service, was that when they turned in their weapons
upon their return to the US, they were told they could keep their pistols,
if they had one. He told me he had one, a .45 automatic, but that he
didn't have any use for it, so he turned it in, along with his Springfield '03.
:eek: :cuss::banghead:

Walter

[paramedic70002]

He missed a golden opportunity to donate it to the Jack Booted Thug Museum at NRA HQ!

And don't forget that Junior has Saddam's sidearm displayed in his office, in violation of DC's ban.

[jeepmor]

Returned, what timing.

I call BS. Just another Bush posturing.

[budney]

And don't forget that Junior has Saddam's sidearm displayed in his office, in violation of DC's ban.

I'm confident that President Bush would never violate US laws. I'm sure Saddam's weapon has had the firing pin removed, the fire control group spot-welded together and the barrel plugged with cement. :evil:

[cracked butt]

CBSCYTE's theory is actually very sound, except that he missed some of the fine details:

Bush actually planned for his plane to malfunction and crash. He was working with a super-secret society of Illuminatt globalists, who actually picked up his crewmates. His crewmates were reprogrammed by the Illuminati and eventually caried out suicide missions of piloting human guided cruise missiles against the World Trade Center. This action ensured that GHWB's son GW would stay in office long enough to enslave the entire free world.

There fixed it for you.

[hoglaw]

During Desert Storm my Army reserve aviation unit was still equipped with 4" Colt and Smith&Wesson revolvers. In 1991 the Army hadn't completed the switch to 9mm in the reserves.

[roo_ster]

cbsbyte:

How does kool-aid taste when drunk from tinfoil cups?

[joab]

If you were an American, you'd be a johnny reb redneck - oh wait.. nevermind..

jackass.

Why do you have to resort to juvenile bigotry to get your point across
Do you lack the intelligence or is it the maturity- oh wait... Nevermind

Every damn time school lets out for the summer

[Matt G]

This was an interesting historical anecdote thread, which has devolved into name-calling, conspiracy theories that defy belief, and thread veer that blows my silly little mind.

I'm closing this one, and thinking of kicking some folks off the board.