Why the Hornady LnL AP has loaded round ejection problems


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PsychoKnight
July 21, 2007, 10:26 AM
From Hornady 7/18/2007 to another member

Sorry we couldn't get your press to satisfy your needs.
Below are some comments from the engineering dept.

Being in engineering, I'm not directly involved with the Customer
Service issues but hopefully I can shed some light as to why the Eject
Wire is the way it is and options available. All of the way through its evolution, the Hornady LNL AP has had half indexing. That is, indexing 36 degrees both on the up and the down
stroke of the ram. This makes for very smooth transfer and far fewer problems than those associated with a more aggressive 72 degree transfer, such as powder spillage.

The trade off is we have a very short window of rotation to eject the
loaded round. The eject wire works best if it is in very close proximity to the loaded round the moment the shell plate starts to rotate. The shell must be gone by the time the shell plate has rotated far enough to receive another case, and it cannot impede the loading of the new case. (About 12 degrees of rotation depending on the diameter of the case.) This of course caused us to encroach in the die area at that station.

The problem is more significant with small diameter short cases than it is with longer and larger ones. Additionally, there are some
competitors' dies that work better than others. When we went with this design on the eject wire, the first thing we did was to change all of our taper crimp dies to accommodate it, basically moving the tapered section closer to the mouth of the die. Also, we have modified the contours on the shell plate to make easier extraction and we have introduced a Powder drop thru expander to allow the user to move the dies back one station.


Regrettably, there are still incidences at that station, notably with
the very short pistol rounds and we are looking for ways to eliminate
them There are other ways to eject the loaded round in the index time frame, but I am not aware of a way to do it without significantly raising the price to all our customers.



I'm thinking they can use a Lee-type bullet feeder mechanism, but in reverse. Instead of placing bullets, the tuning-fork fingers grab the loaded round off the shellplate.

Alternatively, they can change to a full 72 deg rotation like other presses and incorporate a ratching arm under the plate that pulls on a gas-charged or hydraulic valve (like absorbers used to slowly close doors) to smooth out jerky acceleration. Full rotation will allow proven and conventional ejection methods.

Either solution will raise production costs of the press, but what's the point of being competitively priced if you can't compete due to ongoing and aggravating problems? For now, they should at least include in all their advertising and catalog descriptions, which are copied onto retail vendor's info, a disclaimer about 25acp/380acp/9mm problems with this press. With fair warning, people can make an informed decision on whether this press is appropriate for their needs.

I keep reading about people who have become accustomed to disengaging the ejection wire and removing the loaded round by hand. That's okay if you knew this would be the situation before buying the press. Its not okay to find out after committing to the press financially and psychologically.

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GaryL
July 21, 2007, 11:44 AM
Thanks for the info. Removing the round by hand would get frustrating. I'd like to get a second press at some point, and I'm not completely sold on any particular brand, so I'm paying attention to the LNL as it developes.

snuffy
July 21, 2007, 11:49 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=259520

Yeah the hornady LNL sure is a great machine! Everybody needs to go get a box of nails, so the primer station works!:neener:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=289054

Then they can't seem to get the powder-thru-expanders to work. But still I see some that claim the hornady is BETTER engineered than dillon!:scrutiny:

Luggernut
July 21, 2007, 11:52 AM
There is a way to "help" this problem with smaller cases. The shape of the wire has a huge affect on proper ejection. I have had good luck getting my 9mm rounds to eject properly. A few things helped it work for me. First make sure the ejection wire is pushed in as far as you can before tightening the hex bolt. The ejection wire needs to be as close to the shellplate as possible where it contacts the cartridge. Lastly- and I think the most important is to have to wire as close to possible to the case when it's in the last stage- taper crimp for me. To do this you have to open up to loop that goes under the washer. This gives a good angle for proper ejection. If you don't have the correct setup... as you know... cases will jam or simply launch from the shellplate leading to endless searching for loaded rounds. Plus it puts burrs on the rim.

Luggernut
July 21, 2007, 12:01 PM
Snuffy.. since you included the links to two of my posts I feel a response it needed. I still have no bias towards or against Dillon OR Hornady.

Yes the LNL has required tweaking for me. Maybe it's me, I have no idea since I've never used another auto indexing press. I seem to be gaining confidence in the reloading process more and more... and I've found that to get volume you sacrifice something... maybe this isn't the case with everyone or every machine I dont' know. I heard that both blue and red machines ofter require some "tweaking". I've heard that both machines aren't perfect when it comes to properly prime cases.

I do think to core design of the LNL is solid... but I've run into some issues along the way for sure. I'm not giving up or losing faith yet... who knows maybe someday I'll get to try a Dillon.

snuffy
July 21, 2007, 12:28 PM
Okay, some times I can be a real smart ###. In truth, I have never loaded on a LNL. But I do have a 650. I have yet to have problem #1 with it. I did break the primer warning hold-down tab, I simply put too much torque on the screw! A call to dillon had me a new plastic piece in a couple of days.

I'm sure to get flamed for my comments, go ahead, I have a thick skin!:evil:

Luggernut
July 21, 2007, 01:00 PM
Not at all snuffy... if anything I'd like to try a 650 soon. ;)

Walkalong
July 21, 2007, 03:18 PM
The 9MM shellplates were the absolute worst about ejecting on my old Projector. After much trial and error :banghead::cuss::banghead::cuss:, and one each of the Generation 1,2,& 3 shellplates I solved the problem. The 9MM rounds just jump out of the shellplate now with no hanging up. :D:D:D:D:D:D:

For what it is worth, I have never had a problem with my Gen 1 .38 Spl. shellplate.

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