FFL Lost My Gun!


PDA






Roadwild17
July 21, 2007, 04:56 PM
About 4 months ago I dropped of a gun at an FFL to have it shipped back to the manufacturer (A $15 service plus actual shipping cost)for service. I've heard this manufacturer can take months so I didn't worry about it. About 2-3 weeks after I dropped it off, I got a letter stating the manufacturer had received me gun, giving me a service order #, and acknologing my complaint about the gun. Four months after I dropped it off, I called the manufacturer to get an update on how things were going. They said it was received by Mr.****** at ***** (Name of ffl personal who signed for the gun at ffl).

So yesterday I called the ffl and the run around starts. They say that they misplaced the gun and they are going to get Mr.****** to find it and will call me back. Wouldn't you know no call back, so I called back this morning. In a matter of five minuets the manager denies they received the gun and they will have to call the manufacturer to get a tracking number. He also said that sometimes guns just drop out of the system never to be seen again.

Why does something tell me things may get ugly in the next week?

If you enjoyed reading about "FFL Lost My Gun!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Alphazulu6
July 21, 2007, 04:58 PM
Sounds like someone has a new AR-15 in their closet to me :(

Eightball
July 21, 2007, 04:59 PM
Sounds like someone has a new AR-15 in their closetHopefully, not for long.

Harry Paget Flashman
July 21, 2007, 05:05 PM
Sounds like a PITA but with tracking numbers it should be easy to sort out. I wouldn't rely on the FFL to sort it out by himself for more than a week before involving someone who could check the official records (FFL bound book, postal records, UPS, Fedex) as appropriate. For the $15 service fee the FFL bought ownership into the problem and owes you a favorable resolution.

You were a gentleman not to name names but I'd be interested where "BFE" is if you get hosed on this.

Thefabulousfink
July 21, 2007, 05:06 PM
He also said that sometimes guns just drop out of the system never to be seen again.

And those sometimes the ATF likes to bend FFLs over their desk and whisper sweet nothings while going through all their paper work. Odds are that Mr. ***** received the gun, it was mis-marked and sold. I would give them a chance to try and make things right, if they don't, call a lawyer and the ATF.

I don't care who you are and what type of company you own, losing a customer's product is no way to run a business.

General Geoff
July 21, 2007, 05:08 PM
If they can't find it, they should replace your gun with a factory-fresh one of the same make/model. If they don't, as much as I dislike them, perhaps a call to the BATFE is in order..

Alphazulu6
July 21, 2007, 05:12 PM
If they can't find it, they should replace your gun with a factory-fresh one of the same make/model. If they don't, as much as I dislike them, perhaps a call to the BATFE is in order..
__________________

Yeah and the cops because someone stole your firearm... next day air tracking system is there for one reason and one reason only. Haha. If these guys cannot produce your weapon in 24 hours of looking then it would be my idea that these guys are F*** with you and you need some recourse.

And the quote of firearms at his place "dropping off the face of the earth never to be seen again.." This guy must think your a moron.

Roadwild17
July 21, 2007, 05:22 PM
This happened in Louisiana and I have scene moved to Texas. My one main concern is from June 12th to now the gun is unaccounted for and it may have fallen into the wrong hands. I'm going back to Louisiana next weekend and I am going to go the ffl. My plans as of right now are if the gun is not found by then, to call the police and at lease get a report saying the gun is stolen or missing to protect myself in the event it was used for bad business. I'm not trying to burn him or anything, just cover my back end. If things arent sorted out in a month or so it may be time to take things to a higher level.

Cosmoline
July 21, 2007, 05:29 PM
If you haven't already, get a hard copy and tracking number of the shipping paperwork from the manufacturer so you have an official record that XXX person at the FFL in question received it. Aside from any problems with the BATFE for losing a firearm, they will likely be considered bailees under state contract law and will be accordingly liable. If you do have to take legal action, you will likely need to get a Louisiana attorney or a Texas atty with an LA bar as well. The rules in Louisiana are famously different from the rest of the US, but in this case I doubt if the end result will be any different.

Waitone
July 21, 2007, 11:09 PM
You are being hosed. Give'em 24 hours to give definitive answers or call your friendly bATFE office. Do not be a nice guy. Tell'em exactly what you will do then do it. The gun rights community does not need FFL's who "misplace" firearms.

MisterPX
July 21, 2007, 11:26 PM
I'd get copies of the package signature info. That way you know if it was received by the FFL. Plenty of UPS drivers will sign for tha package and leave it at the doorstep.

FieroCDSP
July 21, 2007, 11:43 PM
You have the make and serial # written down, right? Take it with you when you go and ask them (politely, after explaining your issue) to break out their bound-book and check for the number with you. Any guns brought in are supposed to be logged in. They are supposed logged out when shipped for repair, logged back in when returned, and logged out when returned to you (or accidently sold, for that matter). This is Federal Requirement.

If the gun is logged out but not back in, maybe it got lost in shipping. Someone could have forged a signature, and that is for the cops to check on. Given the time involved, getting it back is not likely, so the carrier should pay for the item if it was shipped insured. If it wasn't shipped insured, the store may have to eat the cost, if you asked for insured shipping.

If the gun is logged back in, but not out, it is either still there, or stolen, so it's time to get the BATFE invovled, as that is law.

If it was logged out as sold, or returned to owner, which was obviously not the proper owner, then the store owes you a NIB gun, or else. I'm sure there's some way to hit them with a trafficing stolen goods charge, as it was stolen from you the moment they decided not to return it to you.

I wouldn't like to have someone play hardball with me as a store owner, but honestly, if they can't keep tabs on a gun that someone entrusted to them, they get what they deserve. Shipping is the big anomaly in the system. There have been guns stolen in transit. There's not a lot of things an FFL can do about that, but they have to at least try to follow up on it not arriving.

Good luck.

Bazooka Joe71
July 21, 2007, 11:51 PM
Geez, I hope the signature was forged during shipping. The last thing we need is an FFL with stick fingers.:(

Good luck...Don't be a nice guy and everything should work out

RoadkingLarry
July 22, 2007, 12:18 AM
Alternative possibility - Friend of mine with a FFL gets a call one day from ATF. Seems a gun that was used in a crime on the east coast was tracked back to his license by way of the distributer telling the ATF that they had shipped it to him on XYZ date. Distributer can provide no tracking info or other proof that gun was ever shipped. Guess who gets raked over the coals for several months? Get all the facts and give the dealer a(1) chance to do the right thing before you turn the dealer over to the BATF.

Frog48
July 22, 2007, 04:05 AM
If things arent sorted out in a month or so it may be time to take things to a higher level.

A month, are you kidding me? You're being too much of a nice guy. Give them 24-48 hours max before contacting the police and/or ATF. "Losing" a gun will get them in deep trouble with the feds, so threatening to contact law enforcement should get them to correct the situation for you.

garymc
July 22, 2007, 04:25 AM
If the cops are going to have to investigate a stolen gun, they don't need a stale case. How long ago did the gun get shipped back to the ffl?

CountGlockula
July 22, 2007, 03:26 PM
Not to add more conspiracy theory...

Does your FFL dealer own a gun shop or pawn shop?

waterhouse
July 22, 2007, 04:04 PM
If the FFL signed for the delivery the gun should be in his bound book. If they accidentally sold it they should at least be able to figure out who they sold it to. I would keep hounding them until they at least give you a straight answer. Guns magically dropping out of the system is not a straight answer.

Roadwild17
July 22, 2007, 05:03 PM
Well right now everything is on hold until Monday when everyone opens up. I didnt realize that the chips are stacked aginst him in such a way.

What Im doing is:

1) Calling manu. and seeing about getting written info about shipping faxed-mailed to me.
2) Calling FFL Monday morning and seeing if it turned up. If not Im going to tell him to check his bound book and to turn the place upside-down. I will give him a warning that he has 24 hours to produce my gun or I'll call the ATF to report a lost or stolen gun. I'll call back in the afternoon to see if anything happens.
3) I'll call Tuesday morning and if the story is the same hang up with him and contact the ATF.


Glockula, Yes he has a shop...so

If he sold it, it shouldn't be registered to me right?
Is there any way I can indipentently confurm this myself?

BBQJOE
July 22, 2007, 05:22 PM
That just plain sucks.
You know, FFL might also stand for full frontal lobotomy.:fire:

fireflyfather
July 22, 2007, 06:01 PM
Contact LE now in Louisiana. DON'T WAIT until Monday. DON'T WAIT until AFTER you give him an ultimatum. Threatening (potentially) sleazy/incompetent people with something like the ATF is not going to make them think fondly of you, and some people might even try and pin it on you. Ask them to take a report about a possible lost firearm. That covers your rear end.

They already admitted over the phone that they lost it, then they told you that it never arrived. That is your clue that something fishy is going on. Once you are on record with some LE (and get a name/badge#), THEN you can make all the ultimatums you want and have your own butt covered.

If they find the weapon, then all is good, you report it to the LE that it was a simple mistake, and everyone moves on (although they may still get a little heat for "losing" it, but they should, since they tried to give you the runaround). If it is found "later" in unsavory hands, or they try to pin the missing weapon on you, then you will be glad you have already contacted LE.

gyp_c2
July 22, 2007, 06:10 PM
...what town was this?

Kilgor
July 22, 2007, 06:13 PM
Sounds like someone has a new AR-15 in their closet to me.

Where did he say it was an AR-15?

Kilgor
July 22, 2007, 06:14 PM
.

Lonestar49
July 22, 2007, 06:21 PM
...

That really deserves some special pay-back..

Might you not call the FBI, at their end, location, as IF they say it was shipped to the Manufacture, might it have gone out of your State?

After all, you DO have the evidence from them, stating "received", date, etc.

And be sure and give them the NAME of the last guy that said basically, crap happens.. He might have a cold gun deal working, or ??

Pressure time..


LS

Lashlarue
July 22, 2007, 07:45 PM
It is not necessary to have an ffl involved in shipping your gun to a manufacturer or repair center or for them to return it to you direct.http://www.handgunrepairshop.com/shipping.htm I would link you to BATF reg 922 but I dont think you want to read through 80 pages of legaleze to find what you want. Beemiller maker of Hi-points will accept my 995 directly from me and send it back directly to me.

Roadwild17
July 23, 2007, 01:41 PM
Well the FFL did not even recive my gun. FED EX DELIVERED THE GUN TO MY DOOR!!! My roommate has a crappy signature which they picked up at "Dauren" instead of "Duviea" and when I pronounced the name as "Durnan" it was the name of there shiping guy.

More to come...

Kilgor
July 23, 2007, 01:52 PM
Shipping to your door from the manufacturer is perfectly legal. I'm unclear what's going on. Did your roommate sign for it and steal it?

Roadwild17
July 23, 2007, 01:59 PM
I dont think so, hes at work ant cant answer untill 5ish.

I droped the gun off for the ffl to ship to the manu. for service. The ffl was going to call me when they got it back. Apperently my old roommate and the shiping and reciving guy have similar last names (once you add in his crappy handwriting and me crappy accient) and everyone thought the gun was back at the ffl and they had lost it.

I moved between driping it off and now, but I'm heading back to get the last of my junk this weekend.

MisterPX
July 24, 2007, 03:04 AM
Well now, look at all these people who wanted to lynch the FFL without giving him a chance to figure out what happened..........

CNYCacher
July 24, 2007, 08:14 AM
but I'm heading back to get the last of my junk this weekend.

Hey, you got a box in the mail, it's over there

hacksaw
July 24, 2007, 10:23 AM
I, for one, am all aquiver waiting for some closure here!

tydephan
July 24, 2007, 10:27 AM
Road,

This may sound simple, and I promise I'm not being a wisearse...but...

Did anyone think to actually confirm the shipping address? The manufacturer, I'm sure, could have confirmed that for you? It seems you got wrapped up in the signatures, but never confirmed the shipping address?

Or...maybe I'm confused?

Dannavyret
July 24, 2007, 10:28 AM
Time to call Law Enforcement and raise the mighty B.S. flag.

meef
July 24, 2007, 10:46 AM
You were a gentleman not to name names but I'd be interested where "BFE" is if you get hosed on this.Uhh... it's somewhere in the south end of Egypt, I believe.

:D

Hillsideblue
July 24, 2007, 11:06 AM
I agree that you should not wait..........Get your paperwork together and make a Police Report and call the ATF right away...........It would also be wise to get an attorney to call the gun store ASAP.........

John

silverlance
July 24, 2007, 12:01 PM
just thought id mention that i had a gun shipped to my ffl in early june. it went awol for 4 weeks. panic ensued until it was discovered sitting in the USPS depot cage where the mailman had dumped it. apparently he was a replacement and not only did he not log it in properly he neglected even to attempt to deliver in the first place!

kev

OCJ
July 24, 2007, 12:15 PM
I agree that you should not wait..........Get your paperwork together and make a Police Report and call the ATF right away...........It would also be wise to get an attorney to call the gun store ASAP.........

John

DId you read the rest of the thread? Apparently the MFR sent the firearm directly back to the OP's house.


I for one think the mfr should have at least called you to confirm/approve the change in shipping address for the return trip. If it came from an FFL with instructions to ship back the FFL that should have been followed unless other arrangements were worked out.

If you enjoyed reading about "FFL Lost My Gun!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!