Robbed in Atlanta

I live near spaghetti junction, which is not a great part of town but not a terrible one either. I was standing outside Saturday night talking to three female cousins/friends of mine, and a guy drove up and stuck a gun out the window and demanded our purses. Fortunately, I was not carrying my purse, but my cousins Susan just handed him her purse. He didn't get anybody else's though - my cousin Erin dialed 911 on her cell phone while he was standing there, and he took off.

I am still upset about this and unlikely to take any immeidtae action, but I was wondering if anyone there knew a code section of Ga. law to refer me to on carrying a concealed handgun? I am a paralegal and have access to code books. I also own a .38 pistol which my brother gave me years ago, which really just stays in a box under the bed. I now feel I would be safer if I could carry my pistol in my purse if I'm out at night alone - anywhere. I just want to explore the options.

I am not a violent person but I hate feeling unsafe right outside my home, and since it's a condo the private property rules may not apply.

Any thoughts or feedback from anyone would be appreciated.

The only thing I can find now is Packing.org (thanks to websene) there you will have no problems finding information.

Gwinnett, Dekalb or Fulton?

Anyway, go down to your county probate court, fill out the paperwork and give them the money. They'll direct you to the local sheriff's office to get fingerprinted.

Within 60ish days, your toter's permit will show up in the mail. Total cost is, IIRC, $50 or so.

(As you can see from your incident, your purse may not be the best place to keep your only gun. I keep a backup in mine, which is a specialty purse with a gun pocket accessible from the outside. I like it because I can keep my hand on the gun when walking through parking lots at night by myself.)

Go to www.packing.org and click on the section for Georgia. All the appropriate code sections are there.

If you want to obtain a concealed carry permit, go to your county probate court (that would probably be Dekalb if you live near Spaghetti Junction, maybe Gwinnett) and tell the probate clerk that you would like to get a carry permit. They will give you the appropriate forms, which you can fill out right there, and will collect the fee (look on www.packing.org to see what the fee is, I think it's about $35 but I'm not completely sure) and send you to get your fingerprints taken. They will then run a background check, and, provided that you pass the background check, you will get your permit in anywhere from a month to three months (90 days is the legal limit, they have to issue your permit in 90 days or provide reason why they haven't, such as if you didn't pass the background check).

I don't see any reason why a law-abiding person wouldn't get their carry permit. Even if you don't want to carry right now, you may want to in the future, and it also means that you don't have to get a NICS check every time you want to buy a gun from a dealer.

There's good news and bad news: GA is a "shall-issue" CCW state. If you fill out the paperwork, pass the background check, and take the appropriate training courses, you MUST be issued a permit to carry a handgun for lawful defense.

The bad news. You need to do some serious soul-searching. First off, you and your cousins were completely ignorant of your surroundings. That bad guy had to have been present and watching you; if you had been more alert, it's possible that you would've seen him before the attack took place. We can equip you with the latest uberblaster, but if you're unable or unwilling to develop the proper mindset, you're still going to get beaten (or worse) by a criminal.

You can't carry a gun to "scare" an attacker. If I'm a bad guy, and you present a weapon, I will open fire without a moment's hesitation. I have to assume that you have the willingness to cripple or kill me, and therefore, you have just designated yourself target No. 1. If you carry a gun, you have to accept the fact that you may be forced to take another person's life, and live with all of the associated consquences.

Don't start down the path of CCW until you're convinced that you can handle the responsibilities of carrying a weapon.

Anybody bother to get the plate/tag number off the car?

Brownie

scribbler, welcome to THR.:)

Good to see the legal profession represented.

Uh, yeah, and if I wuz a bad guy, embroilled in a mugging, and holding a gun on the muggees, and one of 'em whipped out a cell phone... Well, you and your friends are lucky.

and one of 'em whipped out a cell phone... Well, you and your friends are lucky.

This thread seem's a little fishy (1st post and a question like that). That is one of the things I was thinking, but I will always direct someone to some kind of info. I think being in the legal proffesion he is looking to find loop holes or just have a good knowledge of the law before hand.

RPerry, nope - the thread is legitimate.

RPerry, nope - the thread is legitimate.

I guess everyone has a right to be wrong every once in awhile :D

At least he will receive the information he needs here!

;)

*

I agree that a mindset adjustment is in order. Calling 911 while the guy has his gun on you?? I am having a hard time thinking of a more seriously dangerous thing to do than that...and that's putting it nicely.

A license # would be a good start.

A gun is but a tool. It is not a talisman. A gun fires, but you shoot it. Asking about a permit is a good step in the right direction, however. Just don't expect that permit to ward off evil all by itself.

I'm sure there's someone here on THR from around your area that can recommend a good self-defense class or two. You should take a defensive handgun class immediately, even before you get your permit.

- Gabe

Thanks for all the good information and suggestions.

FYI - I am a female.

I am also a writer, and next time I do research on appropriate topics I might throw open some questions in this forum and get some opinions.

The robbery happened so fast I don't think Erin was thinking about anything but safety and that's why she dialed 911. She had never been involved in anything like that before, and had the phone in her hand, and I guess it just seemed the thing to do. Maybe it was wrong - but I admire her. I probably would've been too paranoid to try until after he left.

We tried to get the tag number but he had it covered up.

I have lived in this condo for five years and never seen or heard of anything like this - and the management company is good about sending out notices of things like radios getting stolen out of cars. But this was more serious. I will call them today.

I haven't decided what to do about getting a carry permit. I have conflicting emotions - wanting to feel safe, but not wanting to accidentally shoot anyone.

A girlfriend of mine suggested if I ever get in a similar situation to screm like a banshee and lay on the ground. If I had done that Saturday, though, he might've run over me.....

If I lived in GA.
I think I would take the appropriate courses and apply for a FL license.
It is good in GA plus many other States.


I haven't decided what to do about getting a carry permit. I have conflicting emotions - wanting to feel safe, but not wanting to accidentally shoot anyone.


Putting your emotions aside.
Most others will probably agree.
I have never even had to pull my gun out let alone almost accidentally shoot someone. I think a class will make you feel more comfortable with your decision.

Hey Scribbler, and welcome to The High Road. Too bad about the circumstances but I'm happy for you that everybody involved is OK. I've lived in the Atlanta area for quite a while and I can recommend a good gun shop for you that's in the area. American Classic Marksman is on Peachree Industrial at Medlock Bridge Road. A bunch of good folks there. We shoot IDPA on Wednesday nights and several of the regulars are personal defense trainers. Drop by sometime, we'll leave the light on.

Do they still have a real active Ladies Night at American Classic Marksman?

I think some other High Roaders like Shoeless and GeorgeAtl hang out there on IDPA nights, too.

A girlfriend of mine suggested if I ever get in a similar situation to screm like a banshee and lay on the ground. If I had done that Saturday, though, he might've run over me.....

Or anything else he wanted, really. The business end of a .38 makes a much more powerful argument than a glorified temper tantrum. Good luck and welcome to the forums.

I don't think Erin was thinking about anything but safety and that's why she dialed 911. The problem is, dialing 911 isn't going to keep you safe. If anything it put you all at far greater risk. I probably would've been too paranoid to try until after he left.That was your brain telling you how dangerous the situation was and that the risk/reward quotient involved in dialing 911 didn't work out in your favor. The telephone is not going to save you. The threat was there at that moment, the police were not. This is the typical scenario. You will be on your own when the threat arrives...as you were that day. Only you, and not the people on the telephone, can provide for your own safety.

It sounds to me like you understand this, otherwise I doubt you'd be asking about how to go about carrying a handgun.

You're not going to shoot anyone by accident anymore than you're going to strangle someone by accident. The gun requires input from you to fire. It will not fire by itself. There are millions of people in this country alone who own and carry guns for defense of themselves and others every day. The number of accidental shootings in comparison to the number of guns in use around the country is a statistical non-event.

Guns are also not all that complicated. There are very few controls and only a couple of safety rules involved. They are a fantastic defensive weapon for just these reasons. A handgun is reliable, easily employed, safe and effective. A minimum of training will bring you up to a base level of competency with the pistol, from there the sky's the limit. Handguns are easy to use, but difficult to master.

Here at THR you will find a bottomless resource to answer any questions you may have, but hands-on instruction is what you need. Take these people up on their offers to meet with you.

As for your emotional issues, you're going to have to come to grips with that one on your own. You have some soul-searching to do. If you don't believe, really believe, that you could shoot, and possibly kill, another person to save yourself or someone else from harm, than a gun is not for you.

I guess screaming and laying on the ground is always an option...

- Gabe

If you are a Ga resident, you will need a Ga permit to legally carry in this state, per:

http://www.ganet.org/cgi-bin/pub/ocode/ocgsearch?docname=OCode/G/16/11/126

The pages following the one on this link address most Ga legal issues surrounding carrying a weapon, just page thru them.

Lot's of folks begin carrying after an incident like yours, incl. my wife. Apply for your permit, and get some training while you wait for it. Safe gun handling skills and a basic understanding of the conditions under which you can use lethal force will allay your fears abt wrongfully shooting someone. Most firing ranges or gun clubs could direct you to someone for training, incl. the previous suggestion. Also, call Bernie's Sport's Center (770-381-9897); they offer classes and aren't too far from you. I can connect you with a police academy firearms trainer who also happens to be a lawyer if you like; he's very good w/both training and legalities.

BTW, laying down and screaming just makes you a noisy, submissive, stationary target. Running away screaming makes a lot more sense.

Tamara, they stopped doing the ladies only night a month or so back. The person running it had to free his schedule up a bit. I've not met the man who ran the class where a very close friend (female btw) took a basic pistol class but she spoke very highly of his ability.

Good post, Gabe.
Scribbler, I agree that you need some serious training in not only the actions of self-defense, but in your whole approach to the subject. Not trying to flame you a bit, but rather encouraging you to devote a little effort looking into the techniques of using that tool in a box under your bed, as well as the considerations and consequences of using it.

Welcome to THR; stay a while.

TC
TFL Survivor

Scribbler, if you decide to pursue a CCW, look into some training classes. A few good firearm training classes will improve your shooting dramatically, give you training in actually getting your gun out of the holster, and go a long way towards giving you the confidence you will need if you are ever forced in to a situation in which it is neccessary to use it.

welcome to THR

like normal,all good advice.please follow-thru.

glad nobody was hurt:)

bad way to learn you're responsible for your own safety:(

clown

Scribbler: sorry to hear you and your friends were robbed at gunpoint. Now, if you want to carry that gun, take some lessons from either a NRA instructor or a friend (or even your brother) to learn safe & competent handling of firearms. I'm sure if you want anyone here at THR will be more than happy to help too. Society is safer when the criminals don't know who is armed.

4v50Gary gives some excellent advice.

Now, personally, I wouldn't pay too much attention to those who chide you for not maintaining constant SA (situational awareness). They remind me of a guy who posted on THR sometime last year that whenever he goes to a department store (he gave Wal-Mart as an example), he is constantly sizing up every person in every aisle, looking in their eyes, evaluating them as potential threats and running escape and evasion scenarios in his mind. I think I asked him if he ever actually got any shopping done. The point is no one, no matter how much of a Ranger Rick they think they are, is immune from a sneak attack. Witness what is going on in Iraq with our tropps right now, or the bus bombings in Israel. Do you think there is another group of people in the world that are more frequently faced with potential threats during everyday life than the Israelis? Your goal should be to enjoy life while trying to be aware of your surroundings and if caught off-guard, to be ready to respond either by fighting or running. If you get a CCW permit, a little gun training and a heightened sense of SA will improve your confidence a lot.

I'm actually very aware of safety issues when I'm out in public. It just didn't occur to me the other night. I was in front of my home. It's well lit. There are people walking around, neighbors in and out, etc. I also only thought I would be downstairs in the parking lot for a couple of minutes, because I helped my cousin carry some documents to her car.

However, I have learned a valuable lesson and I will certainly be more cautious in the future.

I have learned there is NO safe place in the universe. I lived in a gated apartment community for five years and people still got it, stuff got stolen out of cars, etc. Every time one walks out the front door there is danger - I don't care where you live.

Sad but true facts. I am pondering all options.

My liberal friends are horrified I own a gun, my conservative friends think I should carry it at all times. I try to avoid political discussions except with very close friends...

I will take polite exception to your post, Rock Jock. I'm not asking her to work out a tactical plan for every individual that she encounters - it's about being aware of her surroundings. When SA fades into the background, there's often a big, heaping helping of SHTF on the way.

Awareness is the first step towards personal safety.

FWIW, Scribbler, gun-ownership is not a pre-requisite to joining the VRWC, and is not an automatic ejection out of liberal circles.

Maybe it was wrong - but I admire her. I probably would've been too paranoid to try until after he left.

Scribbler, don't admire her - her actions could have gotten you all killed. What you witnessed was instinctive behavior, a sort of 21st century version of "fight or flight." She was too paralyzed to run, and "fighting" to her involved dialing the phone and asking for people with guns to come do it for her, so...

Paranoia is nature's way of saying that maybe you should be paranoid... (grin) Situational awareness is something that most people in urban environments just can't keep up - there's so much going on. Best thing to do is to just develop a mindset as to what you're going to do (lesson #1: dialing 911 while someone's pointing a boomstick at you can be a bad thing) in the event of nastiness. Then training (and it doesn't have to be as intensive as more than a few folks here maintain - just do it enough to where you develop the muscle-memory (a thousand or so repetitions - a few sessions at the range), and you'll be a lot better off.

Welcome to THR - We're a fairly diverse crew. My sister is in the process of moving to Atlanta - I'll make sure I suggest that her and her husband get their permits.

I will take polite exception to your post, Rock Jock. I'm not asking her to work out a tactical plan for every individual that she encounters - it's about being aware of her surroundings. When SA fades into the background, there's often a big, heaping helping of SHTF on the way.
Very true. I thought your initial post was unduly critical, but I could have been reading too much into it.

scribbler, view a concealed carry gun like you would a seatbelt. You may never need it and when you do it will most likely be when you least expect it.

Sheep or sheep dog? looks like you have a choice to make here,and just from what you have said it looks like you comming down on the sheep dog side of the fence.If that is your choice,welcome.Please go get some training-trust me it will do you good-and who knows you might even find it fun(grin)like any motor skill the more you do it(right)the better you get.Plan on spending a little time and money getting good.This does two things for you.
1.you will have acquired skill to defend yourself and others. The"lay down and scream" will look silly to you at that point and you will find yourself asking;did I say that?
2.The self confidence wil make you less of an atractive victim-predators dont attack victims that have teeth.
If you chose to follow the other path-ie. remaining a sheep may your luck hold out.
In either case this is a great place to get Questions answered.
Stay safe
Check 6

Tamara wrote - - Do they still have a real active Ladies Night at American Classic Marksman? Hummmmm - - - Lil' Sis, do you figure on visiting ATL and want to shoot someplace where you don't have the pressure of needing to compete with all those guys????




:)
;)
:p
:D



Welcome, Scribbler.

Johnny

Welcome, scribbler.

A couple of years ago, there was a situation at Denny's in downtown Atlanta that resulted in my companion dialing 911 while I commenced a closer reconnaisance. (It appeared to be a possible abduction in progress...turned out to be drunks fighting)

We're still waiting on the 911 call to produce a policeman on a reported "woman being assaulted and forced into a car by two men...woman is screaming."


I don't think I'd place too much trust in Atlanta area 911. This is not dissing the area PD's. It's just basic math...If you have x number of units available and 8x number of incidents...it's going to take a long while to get a response.

Accidentally shooting someone is avoided by 1) knowing and practicing the safety rules of firearm handling. 2) obtaining training from a NRA pistol/personal defense instructor 3) practice with the firearm you carry, and 4)situational awareness and mindset.

Relaxed because you were in front of your home? I've come closer to having to shoot in self defense inside my home than anywhere else.

Since when did Georgia start mandating training Courses????????????? :confused:

If it's in Dekalb, go to county court house. Probate Judge, Marion Guess, second floor, fill out paper work, go to dekalb PD , do fingerprinting, go back to court house finish paying and wait...


You can carry legally in a car, open carry (plain view or in glove compartment, or center console, no license needed in house or place of bussiness.

Mastergunman in Stn Mtn on Monday Nights

and bullseye in Lawrenceville on Monday and Weds

Welcome to the THR and sorry to hear about your robbery.

Your response is quite common. I just when through it with my daughter and her response was just like yours. She went from "guns are scarey" to "will pack heat" in about 30 seconds.

Get lots of training. Start with introductory safety and pistol shooting. The NRA has a great course for newbes. Then get training in Gerogia's CCH laws. Other states require an 8 to 16 course in CCH laws which cover the basics in handguns, safety, and shooting. Mostly they cover the law as it pertains to use of lethal force. Then when you've finished introductory course get to one on personal safety. Personal safety courses concentrate on how to avoid situations where you will need to use a firearm. You will learn how to avoid becoming a victim. How does a victim act and walk. How you mental awareness protects you to an extent far greater than a firearm.

The decision to carry a firearm is not one to be taken lightly. It is a lifestyle change. It means you are now taking responsibility for your own safety and you are willing to assume incomprehensible responsibilities as a consequence.

Keep checking back. THR has quite a few Georgia citizens who regularly contribute.

Welcome Scribbler. It looks like you're seriously contemplating a serious subject. Good.

Johnny Guest, you best be careful; we don't know just how Tam's likely to employ her abilities to respond to such poking, even across the ether. Might turn out narsty...;)

Welcome, scribbler!

There are far fewer quick and easy answers than questions, and many of the questions are exceedingly difficult. I hope you'll hang around here, ask lots of questions, and give yourself time to sift through the answers in search of those that are right for you.

Carrying concealed firearms isn't the right answer for everyone. I carry, and wish more people did likewise, but only you can decide what's best for you.

Sorry it happened to you folks; but as you know
the "Deep South" has got several crime laden
cities within its boundaries!:( :uhoh:

Atlanta, Bombingham AL, New Orleans, Jacsonville,
Mobile, Orlando, Miami, and Charlotte come to mind.
Oh! I left out the home of the blues, Memphis TN.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

OK, I plead ignorance here. I think I figured out most of the acronyms, but molon labe? What on earth is that? Sounds faintly gynecological....

http://www.thefiringline.com/HCI/molon_labe.htm

Scribbler,

Glad to have you here; sorry the circumstances that brought you were so traumatic; even more glad you're okay. Sorry I'm not still in ATL, or I'd be happy to go shooting with you.

A martial art I've studied starts every training session with a reminder that we are constantly encountering ideas that will give us a mental breakthrough- if we let them.

By all means, now that you have experienced an epiphany, be alert. Be aware. Learn how to use your defensive tools well. Just don't fall into the trap of seeing bogeymen behind every shadow. After a while of practice, you will find a happy balance that leaves you relaxed, but aware.

All the Best,

John


"faintly gynecological" :D It does, at that...

Welcome scribbler...

http://www.thefiringline.com/HCI/Tam_Essay.htm

Nobody got the plate number off the car?

While on the phone, the plate could have been given and an APB placed immediately.

Next time get the tag number off the car and call it in [ after they leave, not during the altercation ].

Could have been nabbed within a short time span.

Forethought goes a long way.

Brownie

She said earlier in the thread that they did try to get a look at it, and the plate was covered up.
Sounds faintly gynecological....HA! That's too funny :)

You're going to fit in just fine around here.

- Gabe

Scribbler,

You don't happen to live in the complex at Henderson Mill and Chamblee Tucker Road, do you?

Just curious - I work in that immediate area (and carry concealed ALL the time).

scribbler, welcome to THR.

Glad your ok, sorry for the circumstances getting you here, perhaps you were supposed to find us.

I used to assist in teaching for CCW, many came after a bad experience-sadly-some came because of a bad experience to others. I would recommend Tom Givens' book, Fighting Smarter , many other readings will be suggested also.

A CCW permit is less money in your parts than mine. I assure you from my experience many ladies once exposed to shooting -get addicted. 4 rules of safety, doesn't mean you can't have fun. You will have a better situational awareness, feel better about yourself, and improve in so many ways. Feeling of self-reliance is a whole bunch better than feeling vulnerable.

Good Luck, keep us posted, and stay safe. I"m not alone in waiting to hear about that first target you shoot.

'73

I live near the area you describe, Hawkman. I have a friend who lives very close by, too, and he always carries - but he grew up in Chicago and I always thought he wa just paranoid. Now I understand him a little better.

I am still pondering my options; no decision reached yet. There are practical considerations which some folks may not have, since I'm a paralegal. I'd have to remember to stash my gun every time I go to a courthouse around here. I'd have to buy a bigger purse. I'd have to get used to extra weight in my purse, and since I am already pained by an arthritic shoulder, that's no small thing. Then again, I may not want to carry it everywhere. So I'd have to decide when to carry it, and where.

I have never, until the other day, felt highly unsafe or uncomfortable in my home and immediate environment. Last night I came in after 11 from a movie, and paranoia caused me to bolt out of my car and sprint up the stairs to my door. I hate that.

BTW - the movie was Gangs of New York, which is the bloodiest thing I have ever seen. Makes guns look really civilized compare to all the knifings in that film. And I saw it at the old Fox Theatre here which has a huge screen and it was in 70 mm. I walked outside to the restroom midway through and a woman had fainted - don't know if the film brought it on or if it was just a medical problem but it didn't surprise me...

I'd have to get used to extra weight in my purse, and since I am already pained by an arthritic shoulder, that's no small thing.
That shouldn't be too much of a problem. There are some extremely light handguns available. Like the Glock 27, 40 cal, which weighs about 27 oz with a full magazine. All the firepower you need in a really small package.
There are others as well, but a friend of mine has the Glock and it's just amazing how small and light it is!

Welcome aboard, Scribbler. Guns are great fun and shooting can become quite an addictive pastime.

Good to have you in the fold.

Scribbler....

I also own a .38 pistol which my brother gave me years ago, which really just stays in a box under the bed.

You didn't say; but, I assume you mean a .38 Spl. Revolver. If it's of good quality, such as Colt, S&W and a few others, that would be a good pistol to learn with and develop your skills. Target loads, such as wad cutters, are available at relatively low cost and are generally lower powered resulting in reduced recoil. I recommend that you pick one gun and get proficient with it before you start considering other guns.

A .38 Spl revolver is not a bad choice for concealed carry. Shorter barrel, such as 2" is pretty easy to conceal and up to 4" is manageable especially if you will be carrying in a properly made purse for it.

The lighter weight guns will generally result in heavier recoil, for a given cartridge, and may be more difficult for you to control accuracy until you become truly proficient.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth ... Hope it helps. :)

So I'd have to decide when to carry it, and where.You only need to carry it on the day you're going to get attacked, in the place you're going to get attacked. ;)

- Gabe

If you can tell me when and where I might get attacked, you are psychic. You could be making a fortune on your own TV show...

Scribbler, that was humour - note the :D at the end. :D

If you can tell me when and where I might get attacked, you are psychic. You could be making a fortune on your own TV show...I can't, that's the point :) I'm trying to help you answer your question about when and where you should carry your gun. Since you need to have it when you are attacked, and nobody can predict when and where that will be...you need to have it all the time. Or the maximum amount of time allowed by law.

Just trying to be helpful...no offense meant.

- Gabe

No offense taken, I was just teasing. It's a chick thing. :)

Murphy's Law: Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.
First Corollary to Murphy's Law: It will happen at the worst possible time.



Scribbler,

Murphy rules my universe. I am firmly convinced that the most likely time I will need a handgun...is when I don't have one. As a result, about the only places I'm not armed is in courthouses, police stations, and airplanes.

I avoid courthouses, police stations, and airplanes to the maximum possible extent. I understand that your work makes this impossible.

However, I would check the courthouse(s) environs with a view to pick routes and alternates. Situational awareness would be at the maximum during these times with the view to see possible trouble in time to avoid it.

This might sound like an intolerably paranoid way of life. It's not. It's just a behavioral pattern that has been trained into an automatic pattern.

I am still pondering the permit idea. Here's a question for y'all.

If I am in a situation where I feel I am in imminent danger and I need to pull my gun out of my purse, won't I be putting myself in line for being arrested for brandishing a firearm? I was told recently that would be a possibility.

Anybody here ever been arrested for that? I'm not talking about at your home, I'm talking about out in public. I wonder if it's just a fine or if there's jail time.

I personally sorta wish I could "brandish a firearm" every time I ride MARTA downtown, but I have a feeling the MARTA police [they have their own special train police] would take a dim view of that.

There's another question I have, about firing. I actually took a riflery course in college. Thank god the final was a written test or I would've failed. I am no good at things that I have to do with my right hand. My right shoulder is missing a bone [birth defect]. I can't throw a frisbee, snap my fingers, or any number of things that require fine motor skills. And I am totally right handed. So my shooting skills are limited. Then again, if I am shooting someone I am probably going to be so freaked out I would likely miss anyway, and get shot for my audacity....

aaargh - too many questions...

Hiya, Scribbler,

Easier question first.

You honestly don't need much accuracy for self-defense. What I'd suggest doing is to take the NRA First Steps Pistol course. At the end of it, ask the instructor if you are accurate enough to be safe with a CCW.

IANAL, but here's how the brandishment bit goes. If you are in immediate, unavoidable fear of death or grevious harm, you have the right to take steps to defend yourself. Sure, the thug could try to nail you for brandishment, but under those circumstances, you can (and IMHO should) charge him with at least assault. But definitely don't pull if you can possibly avoid it.

If you've got a few nights and you want the whole story, see The Law of Self-Defense: A Guide for the Armed Citizen. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966511913/qid=1057177330/sr=1-31/ref=sr_1_31/103-7724600-4295011?v=glance&s=books) (The price is wrong; should prolly be somewhere between $10 and $15.)

- pdmoderator

Just an FYI, it's illegal to carry on MARTA, even with a permit.

I don't think I'd place too much trust in Atlanta area 911.

Yes, officer, I just witnessed a robbery.

Where are you?

I'm on Peachtree...

<sound of uncontrolled laughter...>

As much as I hate to say this...yes you can be charged with brandishing a firearm if you are not being attacked. Every investigator and state is different. In your case (without going back and looking) I think you said the person pulled up to you all with a gun in that case no.

If you are in a situation where self defense is needed the attacker will probably be within 0-10ft so accuracy is not an issue. Any farther than that and the officer will say you had an out and you should have escaped.

Anyone please chime in.
This is what a few of my law enforcement friends had to say when I asked them some time ago.

Any farther than that and the officer will say you had an out and you should have escaped.

Perhaps in VA, but not much of anyplace else. Your assailant needs Ability, Opportunity and Intent. Ability is "within range of the weapon" - knives at 21 feet, handguns to 200 yards or so. Seems long, but those ranges are well documented and the handgun thing could be stretched pretty eaisily.

The knife is based on the Tuller drill and I routinely see folks hitting a man sized target at 200 yards. :)

We don't have a formal "brandishing a weapon" law in GA, and I can't recall reading about an arrest for anything similar to that. Nor do we have laws abt having to retreat to the extent possible as do some other states. Ahd, we don't have laws abt having to keep your gun highly concealed from others, so with a carry permit you can't get busted if someone accidentally sees your gun (there's actually no specific prohibition on open carry, but it's highly unusual).

Here's the law on using, or threatening to use deadly force in GA:

16-3-21.

(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other´s imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23, a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

16-3-23 concerns people fighting by mutal agreement, or when you are the aggressor.

The list of forcible felonies is pretty long, and you prob know it already.


You can hit perfectly adequately out to 5-7 yds or so by indexing the gun with your torso, retaining the gun close to your person.

treeprof,

Reference the section of the code which applies to:"carrying a pistol without a license."

This is what you will charged with if you carry openly and do not have a license.

If you carry concealed without a permit it will be carry a concealed weapon.

If I am in a situation where I feel I am in imminent danger and I need to pull my gun out of my purse, won't I be putting myself in line for being arrested for brandishing a firearm? I was told recently that would be a possibility.

Never pull your gun unless you are prepared to use it. Don't Bluff! If you pull your gun in a bluff and someone calls you on it, what are you gonna do then. :eek:

If you are in a situation where you are in imminent danger and in fear of your life, then pull it; and, if the threat doesn't disipate or retreat immediately, then use it.

Then be prepared to have to defend your actions, if necessary, in both criminal and civil proceedings. :banghead:

In addition to acquireing proficiency in the use of your weapon, you should take some courses in self defense which include the lawful use of deadly force and situational shoot/don't shoot scenarios.

2 cents worth...

Then be prepared to have to defend your actions, if necessary, in both criminal and civil proceedings.

Georgia is very reasonable in this. I know of only one case where a wrongful death civil suit was brought to trial. And it was NOT ruled self defense. My buddy was charged with murder instead...and acquitted. He was found guilty of wrongful death in the civil trial and filed bankruptcy. The family suing him never got a dime from him.

In Georgia, it is almost impossible to find an attorney who will take a wrongful death suit on a contingency fee basis after the authorities have declined to prosecute due to the death being ruled justifiable homicide/self defense. Georgia attorneys are very fond of being paid for their work. Ain't gonna happen in a case that was no billed due to self defense. So unless the family of the person you kill in self defense has money and wants to waste it...you won't face a civil trial.

Scribbler,

If you carry, never carry in a purse. That's something muggers want. Better to have the gun on your person. A good holster that is worn comfortably will make for an easy draw and with loose enough clothes (something fashion dictates against a woman), it can be easily hidden.

Brandishing is waving a weapon in a rude & threatening manner. There's a difference between feeling threatened and being threatened. Being threatened generally justifies self defense. Feeling threatened is something a trier of fact:scrutiny: may look at and disagree with.

BTW, good for you on taking that rifle class in college. I wasn't fortunate to have anything like that. Too bad the instructor didn't allow you to be a southpaw shooter. Even the GI guns are generally friendly (esp. the AR family) to southpaws.

Gary

Scribbler...

Which of your eyes is dominant? Even though you are right handed, there is a chance that your left eye is dominant. If that is the case, you should learn to shoot left handed and would likely be more accurate.

There is a simple test for this. With both eyes open, point your finger at something. Then hold steady and close first one eye and then the other (while opening the first).

Whichever eye lines your finger up with the object you pointed at, that is your dominant eye.

If it's the left one, learn to shoot left handed. Otherwise, shoot right handed.

Don't think that you have to shoot with only one hand, though. Use a two handed grip -- ask a friend, who is familiar, to show you the weaver stance for shooting a handgun. (Your friend won't need to have a gun in hand to demonstrate this enough for you to get the idea) I think you will find that competent instruction, and practice on your part, will help you overcome the handicap which you described. :D

Byron - Yes, didn''t mean to imply otherwise, just that Ga doesn't actually require a permit holder to carry concealed.

Byron....

Georgia is very reasonable in this. I know of only one case where a wrongful death civil suit was brought to trial. And it was NOT ruled self defense. My buddy was charged with murder instead...and acquitted. He was found guilty of wrongful death in the civil trial and filed bankruptcy. The family suing him never got a dime from him.

One is enough to illustrate my point. This is precisely why you should know the law and be prepared to defend your actions, if need be, in a court of law. :banghead:

You surely don't mean to imply that your buddy didn't have to pay a substantial price when he first had to defend himself against a murder charge and then lost a wrongful death suit in a civil trial and had to declare bankruptcy to avoid paying a judgement?. :confused: That's not what I'd call a winning situation. :rolleyes:

Also, other states may not be so "reasonable" as Georgia. It is very foolish to carry a concealed weapon, if you don't make the effort and take the time to first learn the law regarding the use of deadly force where ever you plan to carry that weapon.

Furthermore, if you plan to travel with it in other states, you better make the effort to learn how the law may be different in those states. Otherwise, you may find yourself in a situation similar to what your buddy found himself in :uhoh: -- only you may not be so lucky as he was. :eek: