Ammo Prices, Still More Data


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ArfinGreebly
July 23, 2007, 12:40 AM
An interesting tidbit showed up in this post (http://noisyroom.net/blog/?p=20821) on NoisyRoom.net (wifey's blog).

The article is, in general, about the strategic and tactical state of things in Israel. Within the article is this fragment of data:
A HUMINT source in the U.S. reported the following - The USG has urgently mobilized transportation brokers to acquire as many empty transport trucks and railroad cars or flatbed conex shipping containers as they can muster from all points in North America. They are to stage the empty containers at two or more large US ammunition production facilities in the mid and upper Midwest ASAP. (Read: U.S. is urgently preparing a massive re-supply of ammo, explosives and weapons for Israel.)
So it would seem that, in addition to the demands made on suppliers by our own military, we are also routing some (or perhaps a lot of) ammo -- the more popular military calibres -- to Israel.

I found some .223 today at Sportsman's Warehouse in Reno. The Black Hills was $21/50 (yikes!) and the Federal was $70/200. I hate the price, but I went ahead and picked up a couple of the 200-count boxes.

All four Wally World stores that I shop are completely out of .223, and my local True Value (who usually have at least Olympic) had sold all their Rem, Oly, and even their Wolf at $9/20.

Well, heck.

Next week, Wally World should have some more $58/200 in stock. If I'm REALLY quick I might pick up some of that.

All you reloaders out their can just wipe that smirk.

I'll be reloading before another year passes.

Meantime, I'll suffer with the common folk.
Oh, word from three places I visited is that we have at least two more price hikes in the pipeline for this calendar year.

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DMK
July 23, 2007, 08:15 AM
:rolleyes: Why don't we just annex Israel as another state and be done with it. They get almost as much aid and support as illegal immigrants do.

Onmilo
July 23, 2007, 08:40 AM
I have always held reason that the US should give the Israeli's Arizona and give the fabled "Holy Land" back to the Palastinians.
The climate and terrain is similar and they will continue to have annoying neighbors on their borders. (California and Mexico.)

kellyj00
July 23, 2007, 09:34 AM
it's BS, here's an article from the gov on what HUMINT is.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB46/

they should have used a different gov't acronym, like NSA or DOD.

Titan6
July 23, 2007, 10:04 AM
I saw a Walmart with $51/ 200 boxes the other day (and bought a couple of course since they were so cheap... *ack!*). They don't sell guns at that particular Walmart. So you might try the Walmarts that don't sell guns is what I am saying...

jlbraun
July 23, 2007, 10:25 AM
The climate and terrain is similar and they will continue to have annoying neighbors on their borders. (California and Mexico.)

OK, I'm pro-Israel, and that is freakin' hilarious. :D

40SW
July 23, 2007, 10:34 AM
There is alot of speculation about the continuing rise of ammunition prices, some say its the cost of brass, others blame it on the continuing war effort in the Middle East Theater of operations, others have conspiracy theories about ammo going to Israel for the final battle of the apocalypse, and I have heard everything under the sun, one thing remains a rational constant, RELOAD!!!!!!, heck, I reload .38spcl, .357MAG, .40SW, and .45ACP. Even though Wally World is roughly $15 for a box of 115gr Winchester 9mm 100pack bulk, I even know some folks who are reloading 9mm now. Not so much the expense, but the fun of it. Regardless of what happens with ammo prices, etc, I say for those of you who don't reload, go for it. , learn how to reload and have fun + save money.

El Tejon
July 23, 2007, 10:52 AM
Why does Israel need our ammo? Cannot they make their own???:confused:

Pushrod
July 23, 2007, 10:55 AM
40SW wrote: RELOAD!!!!!!, heck, I reload .38spcl, .357MAG, .40SW, and .45ACP. Even though Wally World is roughly $15 for a box of 115gr Winchester 9mm 100pack bulk, I even know some folks who are reloading 9mm now. Not so much the expense, but the fun of it. Regardless of what happens with ammo prices, etc, I say for those of you who don't reload, go for it. , learn how to reload and have fun + save money.


Not to hijack this thread, but any good recommendations on reloading books for beginners?

trueblue1776
July 23, 2007, 10:56 AM
You guys need to buy mail order ammo, I'm still paying $200/1000 of Zinc plated Barnaul .223. AIM still has brass/boxer/reloadable Aguila at $14.95/50

$9 for a 20pk of Wolf? :barf:

Eightball
July 23, 2007, 11:02 AM
Why does Israel need our ammo? Cannot they make their own???In the extremely small amount of land that is Isreal, I am positive that an ammunition production facility would be one of the first targets of rocket attacks, suicide bombs, etc. So, I would assume that, for all intents and purposes, no, they don't make their own.

trueblue1776
July 23, 2007, 11:05 AM
Israel does make their own ammo, US buys surplus from them every once and a while. Which makes for an interesting situation when shooting at Muslims with it. The US military usually just uses Israeli ammunition stateside to avoid getting Israel into trouble.

I have qualified with IMI ammunition.

40SW
July 23, 2007, 11:16 AM
"Not to hijack this thread, but any good recommendations on reloading books for beginners?"

Great reloading subforum here, please visit it, also the NRA has great courses and literature for beginers on metallic cartridge reloading.
Also, Visit RCBS, LEE, Hornady, and Lyman. Do a google search on all four.
All four have great literature on reloading, getting started, manuals, etc,etc. .

Black Adder LXX
July 23, 2007, 03:19 PM
I have always held reason that the US should give the Israeli's Arizona and give the fabled "Holy Land" back to the Palastinians.
The climate and terrain is similar and they will continue to have annoying neighbors on their borders. (California and Mexico.)

That is really funny!!!

Werewolf
July 23, 2007, 03:52 PM
I have always held reason that the US should give the Israeli's Arizona and give the fabled "Holy Land" back to the Palastinians.
Not a bad idea, really. Now all you have to do is convince the current crop of Arizonans that live there. :D

lee n. field
July 23, 2007, 04:03 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but any good recommendations on reloading books for beginners?

Lyman and Speer's manuals are what I depend on.

The Handloading subforum here has some helpful stickied threads on getting started (because the same questions get asked, over and over and over and over.).

A HUMINT source in the U.S. reported the following - The USG has urgently mobilized transportation brokers to acquire as many empty transport trucks and railroad cars or flatbed conex shipping containers as they can muster from all points in North America. They are to stage the empty containers at two or more large US ammunition production facilities in the mid and upper Midwest ASAP. (Read: U.S. is urgently preparing a massive re-supply of ammo, explosives and weapons for Israel.)

Interesting data point. I've been doing what I can to simplify and stock up.

Buy more than you shoot.

Kilgor
July 23, 2007, 04:28 PM
7.62x39 is $34 for 200...

I thought the point of buying .223 and .308 was so that in the event of an ammo shortage you would at least be able to get ammo whereas the dumb saps with non-US military calibers would be SOL.

:neener:

Sam Adams
July 23, 2007, 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by El Tejon
Why does Israel need our ammo? Cannot they make their own???

Originally Posted byEightball
In the extremely small amount of land that is Isreal, I am positive that an ammunition production facility would be one of the first targets of rocket attacks, suicide bombs, etc. So, I would assume that, for all intents and purposes, no, they don't make their own.

Israel does make ammo, and some mighty fine stuff at that. Ever shoot WWB Q3131A? That stuff is made in Israel to US spec, and in my experience it has better brass and better accuracy than Q3131. Of course, Israel is apparently stocking up also, as I haven't seen any IMI or Samson for a LONG time, and anyone with Israeli components out there is working on what's in stock (check out Widener's-nothing .308, .223 or .45 in forever).

We also have some HUGE stocks of weapons and ammo pre-positioned in Israel, and I suspect that we're adding to it. We can either use it ourselves or "lend" it to Israel, depending on what is in our interest.

War's coming to that part of the world, and we and the Israelis are getting ready.

dmftoy1
July 23, 2007, 08:31 PM
Now that you mention it . .wasn't CZZ headstamped .45 acp from IMI as well? I haven't seen that in a LOOOONNNNG time.

jaholder1971
July 23, 2007, 08:39 PM
Quote:
I have always held reason that the US should give the Israeli's Arizona and give the fabled "Holy Land" back to the Palastinians.
Not a bad idea, really. Now all you have to do is convince the current crop of Arizonans that live there.


Sounds like you're describing the same failed UN social experiment that occurred in 1948 over there.

At the time we owned half of Europe, why we just _had_ to drop the jews into a territory they hadn't possessed for nearly 1500 years and expect those who DID live there to play nice?

hotpig
July 23, 2007, 10:22 PM
Keep in mind that ammo is a world wide commodity. Winchester is a local company and they make ammo that goes all over the world.

Actually they just laid off 75 people in the brass mill after they finished making Mexican coins and our new 1.00 coin.

Lashlarue
July 24, 2007, 08:53 AM
Funny, Israel has been building nukes since before 1967, and they have kept their locations a secret, I believe a munitions plant would be easier to hide.

Dannavyret
July 24, 2007, 08:58 AM
I didn't think a thread examining ammo prices would turn into some exercise in Israeli bashing. How about you lock this thing?

kellyj00
July 24, 2007, 09:05 AM
that's what happens when you tell good hard working American's that our ammo prices are going up because it's going overseas to folks who aren't American. We're paying more and they're getting it for free.

We're at war. I wonder if anyone has told the government.

I wouldn't feel so bad about the ammo shortage if the government was the one stockpiling it for future use in the fight for freedom.

hotpig
July 24, 2007, 09:22 AM
If we were hard up enough to suspend sales of ammo to friendly governments civilian sales would also stop.




Hiding ammo manufacturing is not easy unless you are talking small time production. I have lived my whole life around Winchester and Alcan.

Alcan is very small but still it is well known under that name. They are operating under another name making government stuff now.

george29
July 24, 2007, 10:33 AM
The U.S has built a huge base in the Negev with hundreds of hardened storage silos, it all started with brightstar in the 80's. We also have similar storage facilities in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and on a smaller scale in Jordan. By storing preplaced equipment in peacetime, we save the obvious necessity of a logistical nightmare and it is possible we are just rotating ammo, so don't be so sure that we are giving Israel anything as they have their own munitions plant in a place called Zichron Yaakov and the company that makes it is called Sultan, which also produces Mortars and Tank Tubes as well as the munitions for same. Another munitions factory is located next to B.G International Airport and another is in the Judean Desert and it is a private factory. All in all, Israel is in no need of importing ammo from anyone although they may be hoarding their stockpiles currently, I wish people would stop jumping on the populist bandwagon everytime some uninformed member posts a "bash" on something popular, e.g Muslims, MiddleEast, Mexicans, ZOG or whatever. As for moving them to Arizona, I prefer they stay where they are.

trueblue1776
July 24, 2007, 11:48 AM
Who is bashing Israel? Please, let's not take ourselves too seriously.

.cheese.
July 24, 2007, 12:10 PM
At the time we owned half of Europe, why we just _had_ to drop the jews into a territory they hadn't possessed for nearly 1500 years and expect those who DID live there to play nice?

That's a misconception. There were Jews in the area that is Israel (Palestine) before the state of Israel was created. Btw - Palestine was not JUST Israel. It was a large piece of land I believe originally under British control (although I may be mistaken as it's been a while since I researched it) that has now been split into multiple states and territories.

Long before Israel was even created, the Jews in that area were being attacked by the Muslims there. Hated by them.... some were beaten... some were killed.

Then when Israel was created, it just fueled that fire.

The whole explanation of violence as being over "they took our land" is BS IMO. It's like saying that crime decreased following the gun control laws passed in the 80's and 90's, when in fact it was decreasing prior. The violence predates Israel.

With that said, I actually think the member who made a comment about 7.62x39 being cheaper than 5.56 these days was on to something.

ArfinGreebly
July 24, 2007, 02:15 PM
This has pretty clearly ceased to be about ammo prices any more, so . . .

I'm gonna request one of the mods put a lid on it.

Hope y'all don't mind.

For further discussion of Israel and its place in history, I invite your attention to APS.

I actually had hoped to glean some facts. I'll review the thread to see if some sneaked by without my having noticed.

Tricky things, facts. Always obscured by some kind of Romulan "obfuscation device" that allows them to hide undetected among the opinions.

Oh, well.

geekWithA.45
July 24, 2007, 02:23 PM
History lesson are OT for this thread, and this section of the forum.



A HUMINT source in the U.S. reported the following - The USG has urgently mobilized transportation brokers to acquire as many empty transport trucks and railroad cars or flatbed conex shipping containers as they can muster from all points in North America. They are to stage the empty containers at two or more large US ammunition production facilities in the mid and upper Midwest ASAP. (Read: U.S. is urgently preparing a massive re-supply of ammo, explosives and weapons for Israel.)

:scrutiny:

I...question this.

Folks have NO IDEA how much heavy lift capability we can muster if we must. Enough to pack up the products, the factory, and the raw materials.

Enough to resupply a destroyed city on 5 days notice.

Getting an ammo factory's entire output into the logistics pipeline is trivial: transport managers do that sort of thing every day before they take their coffee break.

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