[CZF]

I wonder why Cor-Bon or other companies other than ProLoad won't
produce a heavy Plus P version of the 9mm?

Seems like ProLoad is always sold out of it's 140 grain Nosler +P
which seems to be the ideal load for someone wanting a heavy 9mm
slug. 1,100 is better than 960 fps in my book.

Has anyone any experience with the Federal 135 gr. Personal
Defense load? That load seemed amazingly accurate in the test
articles for the P-01.

[happyguy]

Even though the Proload web site stated that they were out of the 140's, I went ahead and ordered them anyway and guess what? They had them in stock and apparently have a problem with the web site. Give them a call before you order if you want to be sure.

Regards,
Happyguy:D

[ChristopherG]

Georgia Arms loads a 147 gr. Gold Dot to 1050 fps--and does it for 13 bucks a box (of 50).
http://www.georgia-arms.com/power.htm

[Jim March]

To get a JHP to open, you either need a big cavity and low speeds, or a small cavity and high speeds.

With 9mm/9mm+P, we see over and over again that with weights around 115/124, we can get a small-mouth round going fast enough to expand, yet the mouth stays small enough to feed. With a 147, speed drops, the necessary cavity size gets crazy and it won't feed. Or if feeding takes first priority in the design, it won't open.

It's just a bad tradeoff. It breaks in the direction of a 115 or so, give or take.

Revolvers don't have this tradeoff. My 38snub is loaded with 158+Ps.

[ChristopherG]

Very concise and informative, Jim.

[tetchaje1]

The Federal 135gr Personal Defense is absolute garbage. The Federal 135gr Tactical is a different story, though. Also, Winchester Ranger, Federal Tactical, and Speer GoldDots (all in 147gr variety) all have a very good record of opening up in both ordnance jello and in actual shootings.

[Serpico]

Maybe you don't see +p 147s because they penetrate and espand the way they are supposed to at speeds just below 1,000fps...I know the ranger sxts do....

[Abner]

CZF,

The 135gr Federal Personal Defense load averaged 1001 fps out of the 3.9" barrel of my SIG225 for an energy of 300 ft-lbs. From what I've read in the mags, it was designed for civilian personal defense and barrier penetration wasn't considered. They tested it with gelatin and denim covered gelatin. It's a low recoil round so consequently it won't have the high energy of a +P load but I would like to see another 100 fps out of it. It is very accurate in my SIG, completely reliable so far, very easy to double tap and I can get it at any of the local Walmarts and gun stores. It's the load that I fall back on if I can't get any Fed 9BP.

[PCRCCW]

Jim,
gotta question for ya????????????????????
If 9mm 147gr JHP's are too slow to expand....given the fast/little vs slow/big comparison.......
How is it the 158gr +P 38's at less than 850 FPS from a snub are effective and expand when they are the same diameter at the 9mm? The 9mm could easily exceed the speed required.......+ alot more.
See my confusion????????????
Shoot well

[Al Thompson]

The difference is the jacket. The 158 in .38 that works is the LSWCHP. The 158 JHP in .38 never worked well. Needed an impact velocity over 1,000 fps to get expansion.

New technology should help. Gold Dots are actually a plated bullet, so the "jacket" should be much thinner. Have not tried any in 9mm/147, but if I had to carry 147s, Gold Dots would be my choice.

[Serpico]

My 147 ranger sxts penetrate and expand quite nicely....and there are loads of LAPD/LASD/SDPD shootings to back up this claim....

[Al Thompson]

Serpico, that's a great point. I was not aware of real world experiances. Thanks!

That's that new technology I was talking about. :)

[Serpico]

you are welcome Al...and let's hope we never have to find out if they work for us...

[Al Thompson]

True, true, true!

[Jim March]

There's more on this same subject here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29509

[happyguy]

The 140 +P's from Proload have a fairly small opening in the hollow point but the best feature is that they are fairly short and have a profile that closely resembles ball. I haven't seen any weapon yet that they won't feed in.

Regards,
Happyguy:D

[Lone Star]

As far as LEAD revolver bullets expanding, the British once issued Mk. III .455 HP ammo, which gave about 625 feet per second. The hollow point was huge. It apparently did expand, and some said it made wounds that were too gruesome, so they went to a full wadcutter profile in the Mk. IV.

By WW I, they had reverted to the basic RN lead Mk. II round, 265 grains at nominally 620 FPS. It worked, but the average shot was probably nearly always within 50-60 feet. This bullet tumbled after entering flesh (sometimes) which would have created a more devastating wound channel.

WW II .455 issue was this bullet, but jacketed to avoid complaints under the Hague Accords, often misquoted as the Geneva Convention. I haven't been able to find any shooting reports, but have read that it was preferred, especially against the Japs, to the newer .38/200 round.

Lone Star