Range Safety and Bubba...


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bogie
July 24, 2007, 01:13 PM
Guys, my range just paid a quarter million dollars to raise our berms, due to encroaching humanity... $200 of it was mine, since all the members were assessed extra to cover this.

And people are still doing stupid stuff.

Recently a guy loaded up his "battle rifle," which probably only gets brought out of his closet on those rare occasions when he has to do battle to get out of the house... He then proceeded to "walk fire" downrange, starting at about 50 yards... Rapidly...

1) This ain't good for what there is of the turf... We can have grass, or we can have blowing and swirling dust - which do YOU prefer?

2) Bullets BOUNCE. We're guessing that EVERY shot he fired that hit the ground probably still went over the raised berm. And kept going. There's houses on the other side now. One hit on a house, car, outbuilding, or person, and the range is sued/closed.

People, the range rules are there for REASONS. And they apply to EVERYONE.

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Justin
July 24, 2007, 01:17 PM
And he's still a member at your club why?

40SW
July 24, 2007, 01:20 PM
Looks like your facility is encountering the same thing our facility has over the years. Not too mention EPA regs, backstop reinforcements, restricting centerfire rifle capacity, etc,etc. Some of the regs make sense, others are the result of liability insurance carriers mandating compliance that makes no sense. I fully support rational EPA regs and proper backstop reinforcements, but some of it is just over the top. I do agree that some of them have come as a result of imbacils being reckless and some has come as a result of overpenetration and stray shots encroaching on residential areas. Fortunatly our facility is near a quarry and a very industrial type area with waste extraction facilities nearby , so they are already heavily EPA reged near us. ,but in the end, its our duty to be fully compliant and vigilant against those who violate the rules. Rules are rules, some I agree with, others I don't, but compliance is necessary.

Dave P
July 24, 2007, 01:24 PM
Give that man the boot - ASAP.

He is the kind that will get the whole range closed.

Lonestar49
July 24, 2007, 02:02 PM
...

Not sure the cost, but it couldn't really put a further dent into all the members pockets, would be, to install a couple of Video Cameras, stating that they are ON, and the RULES of the range about Bubba's type shots, that if SEEN, charges of reckless gun activity, endangering the public, will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, resulting IF convicted, in loss of weapon/s, fine, and Jail, along with immediate loss of membership for life.

I know, big brother, but sometimes, it's what it takes to knock sense into the likes of Bubba-hunters.. Kinda like the Traffic Intersection Camera's with NOTICE OF SUCH, that have reduced, considerably, those that flaunt the law, red lights and endager, or, cause crashes with drivers with a green light and, the cross-walking public and get their picture taken, while committing the reckless crime.

Seems like nowadays, unless one actually confesses to a crime, or is Caught on Video/camera, they can generally get off with "beyond a reasonable doubt."

Just a thought..



LS

rdaines
July 24, 2007, 02:09 PM
There are cameras installed at that range, maybe not everywhere but there are some. I am am member of that club and have not gone there since the original incident that caused the berm restructuring. I was planning to return after the work but it seems that crazy stuff is still on going. I have no desire to be involved in a lawsuit which I guess might happen if I was one of many on the firing line when something goes badly with the neighbors.
That guy should get the boot ASAP.

Bogie - when did this happen??

bogie
July 24, 2007, 02:14 PM
Berms are up, and we're ready to do the signage for the new range... Was talking to He Who Must Be Obeyed Or Else (but we still love the adorable little Jarhaid...) yesterday, and he brought that up as an example of People Who Persist in Doing Stupid Things... This was after the construction. I'm _donating_ some signs for the range pushing safety and stuff, and our fear is that Bubba is gonna use them for targets...

Come on out.

rdaines
July 24, 2007, 02:19 PM
Thanks for the invite back out, almost made it last Sunday until the wife had other plans for me. Maybe this weekend.

Lonestar49
July 24, 2007, 02:26 PM
...

Not knowing what your range looks like, but assuming it has a straight firing line, it would only take 2 cameras, one at eye level, and another with a wider view from slightly above the eye level camera to show both, walking shots in the dirt.. Busted, and a preset mathematical proven angle, that would also show anyone intentionally shooting too high..

2 for frontal face identification from 2 forward facing angled cameras, as well.

But, understanding how one would NOT want to get involved in a lawsuit is credible in my view, considering it would involve dealing with a person, with a gun, that also, one would possibly have to deal with the same person one day, because of his testimony against such a person, and that is where the Video tells the whole story, less anyone other than maybe the owner, needing to testify in court, which goes with the job.


LS

bogie
July 24, 2007, 02:30 PM
60 bench is closed due to the place becoming a trailer park for the week (IBS Nationals). Look at the bright side - your "home range" hosts the big matches...

Not sure if the handgun range is open, but I'm pretty sure shortrange is... And the new range may be open - I wasn't overly listening yesterday...

rdaines
July 24, 2007, 02:33 PM
Shotgun range open? Nothin beats bust'n a few clay birds

bogie
July 24, 2007, 02:48 PM
Well, since it's over in East Jeebus, it should be open... if you see a fat bearded guy in a little Mitsubishi, flag me down...

Scorpiusdeus
July 24, 2007, 02:56 PM
I swear if I ever win the lottery I'm going to open a gun range and buy up a mile of land around it in every direction.

I love it when people move into an industrial or range area and then have the balls to complain.

rdaines
July 24, 2007, 03:03 PM
I swear if I ever win the lottery I'm going to open a gun range and buy up a mile of land around it in every direction.

I'd make that 2 or more miles...:D

whitetiger7654
July 24, 2007, 04:01 PM
I'd make that 2 or more miles...

I'd vote for 4 or so miles just to be safe. Then build giant berms. Then outside the berms have tons of giant trees.

bogie
July 24, 2007, 05:05 PM
And "no trespassing" signs in at least 50 different languages...

Regolith
July 24, 2007, 05:19 PM
No need to create giant berms....just make your shooting range so that it buts right up to the side of a mountain, or at the very least a large hill.

bogie
July 24, 2007, 05:23 PM
Okay, Mountainboy... We'll move just swap Missouri with Oregon... you wanna coupla bigass rivers and hundred degree humidity while we're at it?

scout26
July 24, 2007, 06:22 PM
Civilization moved in on my club. What had once been a rock quarry used as a range since the 1920's is now surrounded by suburbanites who are SHOCKED, SHOCKED I TELL YOU to discover a Shooting Club near their homes (even though the developer had them sign off on the contract that there's a shooting club near their homes).

Hence we are in the process of moving/building new ranges 20 miles further west. We're creating a 15 acre lake, an 8 acre lake and 3 acre pond, just to have enough dirt for 50 ft tall berms for a 600 yd, 200 yd, 100 yd, 50 yd, 25 yd and 50 foot ranges. You can easily see them from US 30, 1 and a half miles away.

Yeah, Welcome to Illinois, the Prairie State.

We'd gladly trade a corn field (think: a lifetime supply of ethanol) for a mountain or even a large hill. Plus we'll throw in our Governor and the entire Legislature for free, since they're not doing anything anyway.......

whitetiger7654
July 24, 2007, 06:25 PM
No need to create giant berms....just make your shooting range so that it buts right up to the side of a mountain, or at the very least a large hill.

Not many mountains in Florida.

YankeeRebel
July 24, 2007, 07:18 PM
It goes the same for airports. The airport has been there for years. People move in and expect the planes to go away as they did not know they were there and it was written into their deed that it was there. The developers are in with the city hall and guess what happens. Just as a new range a new airport is an expensive piect of property to develope.

rdaines
July 24, 2007, 08:57 PM
Yeah, Welcome to Illinois, the Prairie State.

If they doubled my salary I still wouldn't move to Illinois.

Regolith
July 24, 2007, 09:13 PM
Guys, that was in response to the guy who said "if I ever win the lottery." Assuming you win the lottery, it can also be assumed you'd have enough money to move out west in order to build your dream range.

scrat
July 24, 2007, 09:20 PM
sounds like you need to find a new range. Lack of RO. everyone has ranges like that. Out here its burro canyon. Thats where the hoooooolums go. all the people who do not care for safety and everyone is afraid to say something. Then you have angeles ranges. Where Range officers are at the range. Sieze fire is called people are expected and are to step back behind a safety line. Then you are allowed to go down range to set up targets. Same time no one is allowed to touch a fire arm on the benches. All firearms are checked to make sure chambers are clear before anyone walks down range. Then once everyone is back behind the yellowline. The range officer will call open fire. Same time rapid fire is not allowed neither is steel core ammo. its that way for a reason. For me i will pay to go there and obey the rules as i know everyone else is doing the same. The range is well taken care of. Anyone who abuses it gets kicked out.

rdaines
July 24, 2007, 09:28 PM
Maybe Bogie can describe it between but the range in question does have similar rules. Shooters can call a cease fire and the line goes "cold", no touching of ammo or firearms (except for cleaning in some cases though it's frowned upon by some). Range goes "hot" when everyone is back and accounted for. There is even a program to train members to be RSOs with the idea that at most times there may be someone there who's had RSO training. Of course, there will be times when there won't be, especially week days when most are at work. Our range is open dawn to dusk so you will find times that an RSO won't be there. But there are explicit rules with being kick out as a consequence of breaking them.

CypherNinja
July 24, 2007, 10:38 PM
Why be selfish? If I won the lottery I'd do my damnedest to turn it into an income stream big enough to complete with the Soros/Joyce/Brady/etc-anti political machine on an equal footing. I say let EVERYONE have a sweet, LOCAL range. :D

Dunno if I could actually pull it off, but here's to trying....:cool:

bogie
July 24, 2007, 11:33 PM
Place is NOT public... Keycard to enter, etc., etc...

To hire safety officers, they'd need at least four/five (four rifled projectile ranges, a pattern board, and some target throwers). Figure two shifts/day during the summer weeks.

I figure my range dues would go up quite a bit...

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