[goon]

First off, forgive my ignorance.
I remember reading about how people were disarmed after hurricane Katrina. IIRC, there were laws passed after things started getting sorted out that prohibited firearms from being confiscated in a situation like that. Were those at the state or Federal level? Can anyone give me more details or tell me where to look for those details?

[coyote_jr]

Federal dollars can't be used for anything like that again IIRC under the Vitter Amendment.

[JWarren]

They were passed on the state level in many states.

I did a couple searches but couldn't find a list of the states that have passed emergency gun-protection laws, but I am absolutely certain that Mississippi and Louisiana have.

I'll see if I can dig up more.

-- John

[JWarren]

I didn't look hard enough.

This is a good link to get an idea of the legislation post-Katrina:

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/webreturn/?url=/nra/issues/alert/?alertid=9095826


-- John

[Steve499]

Missouri passed one.

[Drysdale]

The sad part is, if the Cops decide to play rough, you'll still have a bad time on your hands. The best you can hope for then is to get your weapons back AFTER the resolution of the emergency... IF they can find them. :barf:

[goon]

Makes you wonder though...
Maybe it would be better to go with handguns and folding stocked long guns in hopes of them not being noticed.

I have been reading about HR 5013 though. Does anyone know if it passed in the senate?

Actually, according to what I can find it made it to the senate but apparently didn't go anywhere when it got there.

[eric.cartman]

Florida passed one: http://www.nraila.org/CurrentLegislation/Read.aspx?ID=2192

Not a single person voted against it, for once :D

I wonder though, is CCW'ing still legal during the time of emergency?

[Taxpayer]

The sad part is, if the Cops decide to play rough, you'll still have a bad time on your hands. The best you can hope for then is to get your weapons back AFTER the resolution of the emergency... IF they can find them.

No, the sad part is that you think that rolling over and letting the police take your guns is all you can do. I refuse to let police take my property if I can fight. I won't commit suicide but if the conditions were right, I would fight for my guns.

I hope I haven't frightened anyone.

[ServiceSoon]

Whats the point? Presidential Executive Order number 8989.24-984/98 probably allows federal agents to confiscate legally owned guns in a "declared federal emergency."

[fletcher]

In NC, we're not supposed to carry firearms (open or concealed) in areas of declared emergency, exception being your own property. I'm not sure if this was altered/modified/what have you after the recent disasters, but it sure sounds like a setup for discretionary confiscation to me.

[RobTzu]

Know your neighbors. A disaster is the time to activate the militia. Hint: you are most likely in one by your state constitution. If a disaster comes and you do not know your neighbors from Sherlock then you are in a bad place. They go from being a help to a threat. I doubt the police would try an unlawful gun grab on 30 people at once.

[yokel]

Seeing that the vast majority of gun owners are individually armed primarily for self-defense, rather than large and well-organized groups able to engage significant forces in battle, we can only hope that a significant number of patriotic LEOs and NG choose to desert, taking their weapons with them.

[feedthehogs]

we can only hope that a significant number of patriotic LEOs and NG choose to desert, taking their weapons with them.


Well we know by example that didn't happen in NO even after a judge's orders.

The bottom line is they have a job that pays them money that buys food and puts a roof over the head of their families. Not very many people in this day and age have the stones to potentialy give up that pay check.

Only way to ensure it would happen would be to have people refuse to apply to law enforcement reducing the numbers and go to work in the private sector.

[JWarren]

The sad part is, if the Cops decide to play rough, you'll still have a bad time on your hands.

Actually, anyone attempting to confiscate has a bad time on their hands.

Guys, I really can't explain it to you if you didn't go through it. The things you have in a situation such as that take on a whole new meaning during those times. The ideological doesn't hold up in the face of the practical.

Again, I can't speak for everyone. I suspect that most of the gun confiscations were from people that they were evacuating. I can't imagine a person staying would ever give up his or her only means of self-preservation regardless who requested it.

This reality was most punctuated for me when I was driving back with 250 gallons of gasoline for the generators our family was running. On the way back from Baton Rouge, I heard on 870AM that the Parish President of Jefferson Parish (the one I happen to be driving through) had just authorized the authorities to confiscate any fuel they may need for emergency vehicles.

You hear something like that while carrying $800 dollars worth of fuel on a open trailer and you realize that you are a target for everyone-- including the officials. You also realize that the fuel you are carrying is not just a bunch of sloshing liquid. It is your a necessity for your family. As I was listening to that announcement, I made a silent decision that... No, I will refuse any confiscation of this fuel, and act as necessary to ensure that a those who try will fail.

That was when I truly understood what it means to have to make an impossible decision-- even if it is correct AND there could be consequences for doing what is right.


-- John

[obxned]

Yeah, the current NC law stinks. I don't get the thinking behind this crap. If it's an emergency, that is when you need them most!

[Lone_Gunman]

If jack-booted government thugs won't obey the 2nd amendment, why does anyone think they will obey the state laws that were passed in the wake of Katrina?

Its kind of like the government promising to close the Mexican border in 1986, and then promising to close it again in this years immigration bill.

Guy with ninja suits, body armor, machine guns, and badges don't have to obey any laws.

[Steve499]

Guy with ninja suits, body armor, machine guns, and badges don't have to obey any laws. (Lone_Gunman)

Nor does anyone else for that matter. A law specifically prohibiting the police from doing what they did would be quite welcome to my attorney in the civil lawsuit I would file against all participants the next day!

Every cop, no matter how much he may posture and bluster, fears a civil suit even when he's done nothing wrong or illegal, because a civil lawsuit's outcome just can't be predicted with any certainty. Even supposing all cops are against you having your guns ( they're not) and would dearly love to take them from you (wrong again), most would have some serious reservations about flagrantly violating one of these post Katrina firearms protection laws just for his own personal financial interests if for no other reason.

Steve

[Lone_Gunman]

A law specifically prohibiting the police from doing what they did would be quite welcome to my attorney in the civil lawsuit I would file against all participants the next day!



There was already a law on the books that prevented them from doing what they did. There is no reason to keep passing additional laws, if no one will follow the laws already in effect.

The idea that we need a state law to protect the 2nd Amendment from being violated just makes no sense to me.

I thought the Constitution was the supreme law of the land.

[Steve499]

I agree that it is just wrong to have the second amendment so flagrantly disregarded of such a grand scale. There is enough ambiguity in its iinterperetation, at least among the antis, to make them think they can always fall back on that old "only for the national guard" argument. A state law which clearly prohibits gun confiscations by police from private citizens fails to provide that sort of cover for them and only requires a local judge to determine if it has been violated, not the supreme court.

Steve

[ilbob]

Why would a law need to be passed to outlaw something that is already blatantly unconstitutional? The Constitution of the US and every state (AFAIK) already prevents confiscation of privately owned property without just compensation. This is widely ignored, not just during emergencies.

[yokel]

In the end, we all know we cannot look to courts, police, and politicians to protect Second Amendment rights and the men and women who legally rely on it to defend themselves and their country.

[stevelyn]

Alaska passed one and unlike the other states, provided for civil and criminal penalties.

[xd9fan]

I wonder.....did anybody do ANY time for the violations??

**a bird chirps on the background**

Didn't think so.

More laws are just more laws....

City Govt's do not fear the people.

[kermit315]

nobody in .gov fears the people anymore, that is the problem

[thexrayboy]

In the wake of Katrina a number of states, including Nevada where I live have passed state level legislation prohibiting LEO from confiscating firearms from citizens during a declared state of emergency.

The problem with these laws however is they are like most others.....they are touchy feely warm fuzzies laws. They have no teeth to back them up except those that the citizenry choose to display when the JBT's decide to violate these laws.

In a true emergency badge heavy thugs will do whatever they choose to do, and whatever the local Sheriff, Mayor or Flap jawed polly tells them to, laws be damned. Their attitude will be "tough $**t, if you don't like it sue me but do as I say or I will shoot you". There are no mechanisms in place to require an accountability or to force the prosecution and imprisonment for those who violate the warm fuzzy laws saying they can't do what they just did. After the dust settles and the finger pointing starts the average citizen may or may not be taken to task for their actions during the duration of the emergency....LEO will not.

In the real world of a true emergency the law means nothing......and the boys in blue with the shiny badges know that better than most. You will be
on your own. Plan accordingly.

[Tob]

I did not hear of any LEO who were confronted by a group of many, during or after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. If they were, I'd like to hear of them. Running around in groups to prevent looting, harassment by LE, or for any reason, is simply diffucult. Everyone has their family to protect, has their property to protect, and themselves to protect.
It is a very good idea to be 'grouped' during a natural disaster, but it is going to be difficult to plan and or enact.

[bsf]

Know your neighbors...... If a disaster comes and you do not know your neighbors from Sherlock then you are in a bad place. They go from being a help to a threat. I doubt the police would try an unlawful gun grab on 30 people at once.

It is a very good idea to be 'grouped' during a natural disaster, but it is going to be difficult to plan and or enact.
I reposted the quotes of these two because I believe these two espouse the hardiest solution.

Alone, the best you can hope to do is evade, and either die or concede if confronted with confiscation, regardless of the law. If you die, you should also know that your family would be able to take comfort in the fact that the media would portray you as a kook. United with some competent and determined individuals, you stand a better chance, but I still do not see any sort of confrontation with LE leading to any desirable long-term results.

Michigan passed the Emergency Powers Protection Act which, in theory, should prevent confiscation during a Katrina-type scenario. AFAIK it has not been tested yet, though.

My $0.02.

ETA
This post has been bothering me since I submitted it. So, to clarify, IMO regardless of the law, if LE confronts you with firearms confiscation, I do not think it likely you can win. Submit or face the consequences: possible death or incarceration. IANAL.

[yokel]

It is a very good idea to be 'grouped' during a natural disaster, but it is going to be difficult to plan and or enact.

I would would say damn near impossible in most instances.

Neighbors with even a basic minimum of infantry training or the confidence and motivation to fight heavily armed and well-trained adversaries?

Let's face it, our guns are only provided to us on an extended loan basis which is subject to arbitrary suspension or revocation at any time by the govt.

We have no effective means of resistance.

[thexrayboy]

Quote:
It is a very good idea to be 'grouped' during a natural disaster, but it is going to be difficult to plan and or enact.


Sounds good in theory and might work for the initial encounter with LEO on a gun grabbing mission. And that may be the solution for a SHTF type situation where gubmint resources are strained to breaking on a national scale. Won't work for crap in a Hurrican Katrina type scenario.

If a Katrina type incident were to reoccur and local mealymouth pollys send out their SS to confiscate guns, two things will happen. Either they will take the guns or the number of officers who arrive to do the confiscating is insufficent to allow them to safely force their will on the number of armed citizens preventing them from their mission of savaging the Constitution.

If that happens they will leave, they will contact whatever reinforcements they deem necessary to succeed in the assigned mission of disarmament and they will then return. If that means they need a platoon of National Guardsman with a fully armed Stryker vehicle than that is what will be showing up to complete the mission.

They won't give up and go away. They will reinforce and return in whatever amount of numbers they need to insure overwhelming compliance. And after they have successfully stolen the property they were after on the first visit they will exact a little payback from them uppity sheep that had the nerve to resist in the first place.

[TheFederalistWeasel]

Just how many of you responded to New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina?

I did, was down there for almost 6 weeks, guess what we confiscated ZERO guns from any law abiding folks.

But you had a small group of your fellow rock dwellers (some cops included) who took it upon themselves to go looting and just generally act stupid.

They shot at boats trying to rescue folks, shot at the USCG helos trying to extract those trapped on rooftops and at the buses ferrying people out of town, the even shot at a news chopper who happened to be filming a large group trashing a store in South N.O.

:fire:

[Lone_Gunman]

They shot at boats trying to rescue folks, shot at the USCG helos trying to extract those trapped on rooftops and at the buses ferrying people out of town, the even shot at a news chopper who happened to be filming a large group trashing a store in South N.O.

I have heard that there were never any documented cases of that happening, that it was all just hearsay like the gang rapes in the Super Dome. Do you have any hard proof that happened? Like maybe helicopters with bullet holes in them?

I don't mean to argue, because I don't know one way or the other.

I am glad to know that you didnt confiscate any firearms from the law abiding, but certainly there were police officers that did.

[Dustinthewind]

In the aftermath of the tornado that wiped out Greeensburg Kansas on May 04 2007 martial law was declared in the town. The National Guard and local police rounded up weapons from the rubble and placed them in a semi trailer. This was to keep looters from stealing the firearms, which seems a good idea. The problem that I had with this was, for the rightfull owners to get their guns returned to them they had to prove residency and go through a criminal background check. Now I dont mind the background check to purchase a weapon but to have to go through one to get my own property returned to me would really p*** me off. I also wonder how many of the guns were looted by the so called authorities? I don't remember the exact numbers, but several guardsman and police officers were arrested for looting.

[gezzer]

In NH it is a felony for ANY law enforcement to attempt to confiscate firearms in an emergency.

ANY officers or agents will be felons attempting robbery and may suffer the consequences.