how to become a armored car person?


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lionken07
June 30, 2003, 08:51 PM
I've been looking around for a few months now but couldn't find any direct information on the issue. You know the kind of people that carrys money from bank to bank in a armored car?:confused:

I know they don't pay much, but at least I get to carry! that means a whole lot!:cool:

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wingnutx
June 30, 2003, 08:55 PM
A guy in my reserve detachment does that. I'll ask him.

lionken07
June 30, 2003, 08:56 PM
Thanks man, I'll buy you beers:)

VaughnT
June 30, 2003, 09:33 PM
Unfortunately, it's not too terribly difficult. I've been doing it for four years and love the work. However, doing it because you get to carry is the worst reason. It's hard work, physically, and dangerous....especially in NY.

Getting hired isn't a problem because there is usually a very high turnover rate. Do not think that you'll be joining some hardcore group of special forces plankholders. Most of the people are overweight, out of shape, retired, ignorant, unmotivated, uneducated and generally present a poor image of themselves. You might be the exception.

Starting pay is around $9.50/hr and benefits vary. Some states/companies require annual recertification some don't. The level of training you will get is entirely up to the company you get on with.

All you have to do to start the ball rolling is go to their office and fill out an application. Nothing fancy, just like working at Burger King.

Brinks is good. Armored Transport (AT Systems) is good. Loomis Fargo is interesting, but hurting here in the south.

Stay far away from small outfits. If you can't get on with a national company, look for work elsewhere.

And your license to carry is only good while working and then only on the property you are assigned to. You can't carry everywhere like a cop because you are not a law-enforcement officer. There is a great difference between the two, but I strongly believe we have the better job. I would never want to be a cop!

Any more questions?

lionken07
June 30, 2003, 09:37 PM
thanks man, I have no clue where their office are...

anyways, what are some of the requirements in becoming one?:confused:

Parker Dean
June 30, 2003, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by VaughnT

Stay far away from small outfits. If you can't get on with a national company, look for work elsewhere.

Tell me about it :D

Back in the late Eighties I worked for a small local company as an armed courier. This place was a disaster waiting to happen. Owners were nice but just clueless about what it took to run a successful armored car company.

They had acquired another security company that went bankrupt and the courier portion was part of the bankrupt one. What that company had be using for its so-called armored cars were early Eighties Dodge 1/2 ton vans with 225 slant sixes. They had tried to build an armored box in the back with some 1/8 steel plate. The driver areas were covered with 3/4 inch plexiglass over the windows and some sort of fiberglass sheet over the remaining parts of the doors. It was a total joke as far as actually being usefully armored.

The area that the "jumper" would be in was completely useless so he rode in the front with the driver which is a no-no but we did it anyway. Only one bank in the area had an actual armored car garage. All the others you just pulled up on the curb and the jumper went inside. Oh yeah we only had a jumper and a driver, no lookout.

So one day I'm the driver and we're sitting out in front of the First City Bank in downtown Corpus, the jumper is in the bank and I'm catching up on paperwork. It was about time for the jumper to return and the door began to open so I look over calmly and this stranger is backing into the passenger seat. I draw my revolver, wishing I was left handed, and paying SERIOUS attention to the person entering the van arms waiting to see a weapon. I just couldn't speak, I tried but no sound came out. After an eternity she was seated, actually closed the door with this "armoring" and turned to see me pointing a gun at her. She squeaked something unintelligible scrambled out of the van and ran back to another black van that was parked just behind. Just about the time the other van leaves the jumper comes back and all casual asks if that was my girlfriend, like it happens everyday ( I was considered managements"spy" so the others didn't share everything that happened when they were out). To this day I wonder what the woman thought. It is moderately amusing now but all the ways that could've gone wrong is staggering.

Remember I said these "armored" junkpiles had the Slant Six. The engine would hold together a month or two and kick a rod out. So the owners had this beat-to-hell '76 E350 9 passenger window van with the roof rusting off that we would use as a backup. One day we were down at the M Bank in the armored car garage with this total POS and they asked us to take a transfer around to some credit union on the South side on Staples street. We said sure no problem. It was a quarter-million dollars! To this day I can't help but laugh at the idea and sheer folly of us two young idjits cruising around in this well-known backup POS with $250K sitting between the front seats. I suppose the only thing that saved us was that this company never had had real cash being transferred. They just had some convenience stores as clients and I doubt any one truck had more than $3K scattered through 20 or 30 deposit bags.

There was more silliness like that which could get people killed with this company, which is still in business BTW but with a couple of real armored vans, but these are the ones that really stand out.

Parker

TechBrute
June 30, 2003, 10:30 PM
anyways, what are some of the requirements in becoming one?
A background check and the cold mirror test.:D

wingnutx
June 30, 2003, 10:44 PM
My buddy said just go apply for it. Loomis Fargo will give you a polygraph and a background check.

He makes about $13 an hour, and says it's pretty slack most of the time. He does get some good pistol training.

lionken07
June 30, 2003, 11:00 PM
cold mirror test? can someone explain?:confused:

Mastrogiacomo
June 30, 2003, 11:03 PM
Lady here...I've been trying to get one of these types of jobs too, if only to get my permit upgraded to an A so I can buy whatever gun I want. I'd also love a job that won't affect my carpal tunnel in my hands and make it worse. So....I tried Loomis and Fargo but that put me through a math test that they swore up and down had no impact on the hiring process. Yeah, right....:rolleyes: I have dyscalculia (math disability) and what a shock -- I couldn't pass and they didn't hire.

Tried Brinks -- not hiring.
Tried Dunbar -- filled out an application, they never interviewed me, never called me back. It's been a month now.
Now I'm thinking about McCann -- who the Hell knows? Maybe they just don't like out of work, desperate women with a M.Ed. looking for a career change into whatever in the Hell is hiring....I've tried SOS security, you need experience to get a job with them -- they won't give you the chance to get experince. Translation, I'll never work...Tried another armed company that gave me the wrong address and then put on the machine when I tried to call back. Walked four hours in the wrong shoes looking for a company no one had heard of and then went home. They never called to apologize: "P.S. Security" in Allston, MA? Who ARE they?

Other armed positions want you to have the Class A at the time of applying. They won't interview you without it. My police department won't give it to me until I'm hired for a Class A job. Does God hate me or something? :cuss: :fire:

RAY WOODROW 3RD
June 30, 2003, 11:27 PM
I don't think throwing bags upon bags of coin into and out of an armored truck would help the carpal tunnel in your hands.
I worked for Brink's Armored out of Trenton. They were liquidated and their routes divided between Philly and Newark. I did the Philly shuttle at night and always had between 15 and 25 million dollars in the truck. I can tell you this now because that route is no more. My partner and myself protected that with little old 4 inch S&W .38's.

Talk about dreaming of all the guns that money could buy! I could have bought a small nation too! You have to look at the money as wigits or something else or you would go insane. Nothing like holding a bag the size of your typical brown bag lunch in one hand that has an $80,000 dollar tag on it. You start to figure out how long you would have to work to accumulate it and cry....................

:D they are just wigits, just wigits, just wigits, :D

.45Ruger
July 1, 2003, 12:12 AM
If you want to find their offices to fill out an application might I suggest the phone book.

firestar
July 1, 2003, 01:00 AM
I worked at a small armored car company when I first got out of college and couldn't find any other work. I had it pretty good for a while with a very light route that paid well. I got paid for 40hrs even if it didn't take 40hrs, anything over 40hrs was overtime of course. I worked about 25-30 hrs a week and got paid for 40hrs. Not too bad.

The work is easy but the general type of person varies from people you would trust with your life to people that you wouldn't trust with a butter knife. That is no joke either, I have seen some people that really shouldn't have been allowed to own a gun much less carry a gun. The bad thing is, you don't get to pick your partner. If you get a good one, you will have a fun time but if you get a bad partner, your life will know no end to pain.:D

I ended up as a trainer and I got a new partner every couple of months, some became my friends but some were bad news. The coolness of being able to carry a gun in the open wears off as soon as people start making stupid comments. I can't understand what some people are thinking. I had people ask me if I would shoot them if they tried to rob me, I've had people joking that they had a gun, I had people do and say some really strange and stupid things that made you think that humanity had lost all hope.

I only had to draw my gun one time and that was just because I was inside an ATM and someone was banging on it. I had the gun pointed at them through the sheet metal door and told them to get lost. Your ??? is on the line for someone else's money and if someone wanted to rob you, you will almost certainly die. Not my idea of a career but it was fun for a while.

c_yeager
July 1, 2003, 02:00 AM
Lion, a cold mirror is a nifty way to check if a person is still breathing (hold it in front of thier nose and see if it fogs) In my experience this is the most difficult qualification of most armored car companies.

dinosaur
July 1, 2003, 06:23 AM
Just before I retired we were looking for a gang that specialized in armored car robberies. They would steal a bunch of cars and park them in front of a check cashing place. This way the armored car would have to double park. When the guards were out on the sidewalk with the money, they`d come up behind them and shoot them in the back. I think they did this 4 or 5 times. Don`t know if they were ever caught.

Goet
July 1, 2003, 07:27 AM
and I loved it. It was dangerous, though.

Benefits to working for the small outfit over Brinks and Loopy Fargo:

1. They carried issued .357/.38's. We carried ANYTHING we wanted. Some people (including myself) carried company .38's. I didn't have any other "full-size" hardware at the time. Others carried their trusty .45's or .40's. Some had wonder nines. Truth is, if you wanted to carry your .50 Desert Eagle in a drop holster, you could do it.

2. Bosses were cool and flexible. There's nothing like actually knowing the PRESIDENT and OWNER of the company you work for. You'll never meet those people at a major corp. All you'll ever see is the stuck-up, uneducated, white..... well, I digress.

Simply put, many people in this field, when elevated to positions of "uhtoritay" are jerks.

3. We didn't have to deal with idiot policies from corporate level. When we would make transfers with Brinks, we'd always have one idiot that would cover us (at combat ready) with a shotgun. I about flipped when one guy had the weapon levelled at us while we were reversing into their garage. Fact is, their policy dictated that when money was on the move and in the open, they had their weapons unholstered. Talk about chilling! :what: Stupid policies get you killed. We had top-notch training paid by our bosses and we used common sense.

4. No CDL needed to drive the armor plated vans.

Disadvantages:
1. We had crappy radios and no backup. Same for all outfits.
2. No company issued body armor.
3. Any deer rifle could take us out. (Same can be said of any outfit, though.)
4. Yes, there are some serious morons in the business. I had one partner from time to time that would forget to load her revolver in the morning. One day, as we were cruising to a local fast food stop for pickup, some guy gets in our face. I guess we had cut him off on the merge and he didn't like being behind a slow-moving van. He started playing tag with us and trying to force us off the road. Then the huge gorilla of a man decides that he wants to put a head-sized rock through our windshield. [Can you believe he kept this under his front seat!?!?!?!?]

Not wanting to escalate this at the local burger joint, I pulled to a stop in the middle of the road, waited till he exited the vehicle, and then pulled into the parking lot another 50 yards.
Guess he wasn't so tough when too armed people stepped out of the van. We were able to continue on after a brief akward moment on his part. After re-entering the vehicle, my partner turns to me and admits that she just realized she's running empty.

Mercy!!!
:eek:

Of course, along with dingbats like this you get the "pro" type. Ex-Vietnam nutcases, to be exact. They might not be the most mentally stable, but I'd take one of them in a gunfight ANYDAY of the week. Kinda adds to your reliability factor when you've already killed a few dozen people and are none too hesitant to take out some more!

duckfoot
July 1, 2003, 09:50 AM
Yeah, moms a atm change out tech that's on call one day a week. Good gig for her, but for the issued side arm, a S&W big frame .45LC conversion job. She's only 5'3" and a Buck Ten!! Some sort of buy off from a PD that was changing out the hot room she was told. So I bought her a .40 and a vest and was surprised at the cost, but got the best I could afford and was sorry I couldn't get better (new class II with rifle plate yeah ouch!) But a housewife with five kids kind of makes an interesting "my mom will kick your moms butt" argument.

VaughnT
July 1, 2003, 10:09 AM
"pro" type. Ex-Vietnam nutcases, to be exact. No than you! Those are the worst because it's rare that they actually ever did anything in combat. Oh sure, they might talk a big game, but lets see how they fare in a fight. We have one at work that talks big but never talks to the manager about these problems. He'll talk to the crewmen all day long, but can't seem to face the manager....

And as for the idiots that don't load their weapons and such, they are all too common. Half of you wants to see them killed for their stupidity and to teach management a lesson; the other half just wants to curl up in a ball and weep uncontrolably.

Remember, the biggest thing about this work is keeping your mouth shut. Loose lips really do sink ships.....even after you've left the business. Then it's someone else's ship.

Don't talk about money carried or weapons or armor or whatever. You just don't know who is listening.

You can find their local office, if they have one, through their website or yellow pages. Again, though, working in this line for the ability to carry is not the right motivation. It gets real old real fast.

firestar
July 1, 2003, 06:13 PM
but for the issued side arm, a S&W big frame .45LC conversion job. She's only 5'3" and a Buck Ten!! Some sort of buy off from a PD that was changing out the hot room she was told.

What the heck are you talking about?:confused:

A .45LC conversion job?

"Some sort of buy off from a PD that was changing out the hot room she was told"
What does that mean? I can't seem to make sense of your message.:confused:

lionken07
July 1, 2003, 06:25 PM
thanks everyone just got an e-mail from Edna Torres with Loomis Fargo, I seen to be fit in all the requirements so far.

Now if only I know how to get to Lyndhurst NJ (07071) from New York City...(yeah I don't have a car this month).:confused: :confused:

Tom B
July 1, 2003, 06:31 PM
I went to work for Loomis Fargo in Atlanta last year. Pay is $13. per hour here. They do credit, criminal, motor vehicle and polygraph checks. You must be able to pass a truck driving test and ICC physical. Also State Firearms class and test both written and range. Takes about 4 months to get your license and you can become a messenger(hopper). Until then you drive and are not allowed out of truck unless escorted by armed guard. The ATM business is the BIG thing now. I really enjoy it.

lionken07
July 1, 2003, 07:32 PM
can you tell me more about the ICC physical and the polygraph test?

David
July 1, 2003, 08:11 PM
Two words...

BODY ARMOR

4v50 Gary
July 1, 2003, 09:09 PM
In Calif, you need to get the CA guard card and then the CA gun card. Cost for class & cards will be about $175. That's all you really need. Pays about $17.50 out here in the Bay Area.

Only one teeny weeny problem. People who work armored cars tend to get killed. Heck, in Hayward one fellow was killed by his partner. Said partner fell through the cracks and was a felon who shouldn't even have a gun, yet alone be licensed for a gun. The poor guy who died had a wife and kids. :mad:

BlkHawk73
July 1, 2003, 10:07 PM
Nothing personal, but using "being able to carry" as a reason for wanting a job sounds like someone needing to feed their machismo and boost thier ego or status amoung thier friends for bragging times.

firestar
July 2, 2003, 12:56 AM
Only one teeny weeny problem. People who work armored cars tend to get killed.

It is true that some people get killed in the biz but not as many as you would think. While I worked there, I had a morbid desire to find out the stats on how many people are killed and how many robbers occurr each year.

What I found was, big cities are the only area where you are even remotly likey to get robbed. Also there seems to be two types of armored car robbers. This is just a generlization but one type seems to be a guy that hits someone in the head with a bat or a club and steals the bag of cash that the messenger is walking out of the store or bank with. The other type seems to be the pros, you will die if you come up against these guys. They kill everyone and they take more loot. They often have serious firepower and you don't stand a chance. Higher stakes for higher rewards I guess.

Based on stats, it is one of the safest jobs you can get. You are far more likely to get killed if you work in a gas station or are a truck driver. Those jobs are truly dangerous. You will feel safer working in a gas station but based on stats, you aren't.

lionken07
July 2, 2003, 01:19 AM
just an update all three companies (brink, loomis fargo, AT system) seen to be interested in me appling for this position. I will get an application from each to see what happens.

Now do they have any backups in the truck? I'm guessing a shotgun or something long that can give you enough firepower when need be.:confused: Sometimes you just don't feel well armed with just a handgun.:evil:

Tom B
July 2, 2003, 04:03 AM
The ICC test and physical are from the federal transportation manual. Truck driving safety and rules. You will get a copy to study. Physical is standard. With Loomis polygraph and background checks go back 7 years. Smaller companies go back shorter periods. Polygraph questions are like: have you ever stolen or had knowledge of anyone that has stolen money from employer? Have you ever taken or sold drugs? Have you been convicted of DUI? Standard background stuff. As far as the people I have worked with most are very professional. I drove many different routes while training with many different people. Most of the stories you here about the "bad" people are like the Glock bashers, they are told by people who have never set foot in an armored truck before or have never shot a Glock. Speaking of Glocks they are a NO NO with Loomis because they have no external safety and you are forever getting in and out of a truck banging your holster against the sides etc...In Georgia you can carry up to a 40cal semi. Loomis as a company will let you carry up to 45acp but Georgia limits you to 40cal. I carry a S&W M66 stoked with Cor Bon 125gr +P+ 38spl. No 357mag allowed. Anyway back to the people you work with. Many college degrees. Many ex military ex LE. My two best friends that I have ridden with are a retired high school teacher from Atlanta (hes also an ex Marine from Vietnam) and a retired machinist from Boston. Oddly enough I have found the best drivers to be younger females! They can back trucks into places that I would not dare to try.

Goet
July 2, 2003, 12:21 PM
"pro" type. Ex-Vietnam nutcases, to be exact. No than you! Those are the worst because it's rare that they actually ever did anything in combat. Oh sure, they might talk a big game, but lets see how they fare in a fight.

I tend to believe the guys with bullethole scars, numerous medals for valor, and a mentality of "kill'em first, let God sort 'em out".

They're old, they're slower than the average bear, and they are a little addled, but I'd take that guy over the 22 year old wannabe cop with the attitude or the people that can't seem to load their weapons before leaving the building.

And I seriously doubt that talk about weapons or armor are going to "sink ships". Any idiot can tell if a guard is wearing armor and what kind of hardware they're packing. It's not rocket science.;)

duckfoot
July 2, 2003, 07:56 PM
Firestar,

From the way I understand it, a revolver conversion takes a frame from something like a s/w 626 or a M29 in .44mag swap out the barrel and cylinder to fire a .45 long colt. The what and why for a Police Dept to do this beats me, but a .45 long colt revolver is a lot of gun for such a little lady. Interesting gun though.

A hot room is the same thing as a armory. Small Police Dept don't have a lot of money to throw around so scrapping their older service revolvers for new ones hurts, so why not sell the old to help pay for the new.

Sorry for not making my last post a little more clear.

Duck

VaughnT
July 2, 2003, 09:18 PM
Goet, Trust who you like. My policy is to trust no one until I see them shoot. Company Quals are normally nothing to be awed by and most State Quals are watered down so we can get employees.

Just had one of those big-talkers come on board about six months ago. He spent all day talking about how bad he was in 'Nam and how it wasn't a good idea to get him mad and how he could run the branch 10x better than management. Finally, he quit. Everyone was glad to see him go....then he finds the grass isn't greener on the other side. Why the boss hired him back is a mystery to me, but he sure is a quite fella now.

And remember, just because someone could shoot/drive back in the 70's doesn't mean they can do it today. Age degrades motorskills. Unless you've seen them eat the bullseye out of a target, why would you have trust them to cover you?

Most of the older guys that I've seen are good people, folks you wouldn't mind associating with and whom you could trust. But that doesn't mean they are meant for the armored transport industry.

Bottom Line: You need to act professional in this business. That means spending your time and your money practicing with your carry weapon and whatever backups you are allowed. Don't rely on someone else because there is very little they can do while stuck in that truck.

skippie
July 2, 2003, 09:29 PM
I also work for one of the smaller companys, and I have to say, you could not pay me enough to go back to a big company again... as for the pay, $6.00 when I started 10 years ago, but $23.75 now, It does pay to stick it out...

lionken07
July 3, 2003, 02:34 PM
interesting...

one other question come up: what is * Must be eligible for CDL License*?

:confused:

VaughnT
July 3, 2003, 07:06 PM
Lionken, getting a CDL isn't all that terribly hard; you're not going for a Class A with the X endorsement, so don't sweat it. If you have a clean driving record (no DUI's) and can operate a large van/rv, you won't have any problems passing a CDL-B test. The worst part is remembering all the pre-trip inspection parts to be named.

Skippie, where are you working and how can I apply?!?! Is your shop union? 1-1/2 after 40? You bring up a good point about sticking with it. I'm one of the most senior in our branch because most other folks give up in frustration. You cannot make a difference with incessant whining and you cannot change the system by leaving the company. Most folks, especially the younger generation, just don't understand that. Stay in the fight and you might come out on top!

lionken07
July 3, 2003, 07:34 PM
thanks for the tips VaughnT. I will be sure to remember that.

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