Thinking about an air pistol for practice


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Ian
July 25, 2007, 09:54 PM
I'm not able to get to the range nearly as much as I'd like, so I'm thinking about getting a decent air pistol that I can use with a little indoor backstop. I would want something at least decently accurate (definitely not airsoft), but I'm not sure how much money I want to lay out for one. Can anyone give me some pointers on what's available? Pump vs refillable cylinder? Pump would mean less extra stuff to be buying, but how do they compare to guns with pressurized tanks? I was on a pistol team at school that had some older pump air pistols, but I rarely used them and can't remember who made them, or how good they were.

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Neo-Luddite
July 25, 2007, 10:22 PM
I just picked up a second hand Crossman American Classic (20 bucks)--I had had one as a kid. Maybe $50-70 bucks new today. I've been having a blast shooting it off my deck in the back yard. My favorite, which needs new seals, is a Benjamin--Crossman bought them out but still makes the classic line--I think they are closer to 100.00 or so. Both are varriable power, so indoor use would be OK.

You can really, really get some nice and blisteringly accurate airguns--but this one is a tank: http://www.crosman.com/site/listing/1101

Neo-Luddite
July 25, 2007, 10:23 PM
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res1b3uq
July 26, 2007, 12:13 AM
A daisy 477 is a very accurate, inexpensive pistol. If you only want it for 10 yd. stuff, it is powerful enough, especially in the house. I have a 777 (no longer made) and the only difference is a target grip and target sights. Buy good quality pellets. The cheap ones (China) don't cut it. German pellets seem to be best.

RyanM
July 26, 2007, 12:57 AM
If you get one of the better gas blowback airsofts, accuracy will be quite acceptable at across-the-room distance. I was able to get 3" groups at about 50 feet with one, and I am by no means a good shot. That's about as well as I can shoot with real handguns. Indoors, it was just one ragged little hole in the target.

Also, some company makes an adapter that you can put on barbecue grill propane tanks. Airsoft "green gas" is really just propane, with a little sillicone lube in the can. So with one of those, gas refills are as cheap and easy to buy as CO2 cartridges, if not moreso.

10-Ring
July 26, 2007, 02:34 AM
Sure trigger time is important, but to go w/ a pellet gun (IMO) is not the answer. There are just too many differences that the only thing your are really practicing is sight alignment.

PzGren
July 26, 2007, 05:52 AM
I disagree with 10 ring. Shooting an air or airsoft gun is more than sight alignment, it is also trigger control - particularly if you'd go with a spring operated airgun.

I used a Walther LP52 to supplement my training during my bullseye days and can assure you that it helped a lot.

Finally, some Asian shooters practiced exclusively with airsoft guns due to legal restrictions in their homeland, when they shot at an action match in the States, they actually came out first.

kingpin008
July 26, 2007, 05:53 AM
There are just too many differences that the only thing your are really practicing is sight alignment.

Not necessarily. There are some pretty damn advanced pellet and airsoft guns out there. You'd be suprised at the similarity of some of the higher-end models to their real-firearm cousins.

Heck, even Colt has a line of pellet guns that are copies of their 1911's. Full metal and everything.

Crosman has a few that very, very closely resemble Glock 17's, and one that looks a fair bit like a Beretta PX4. They even have a blow-back action. I'm getting ready to order one for myself, actually.

kingpin008
July 26, 2007, 05:58 AM
The Glock look-a-like - http://www.crosman.com/site/listing/1325

The PX4 look-a-like -
http://www.crosman.com/site/listing/1322

I like the knock-off Glock, personally.

bakert
July 26, 2007, 11:44 AM
Didn't the Japanese Olympic team practice with airguns before one of the Olympic games because of guns being banned there? I too shoot a Crossman classic quite a bit in my back yard. Regardless of what the nay sayers claim, practice with a pellet pistol is much better than no practice, especially if you live in an area where there's no range near. Sure, maybe it's not as good the real thing and the triggers are not as good on the less expensive guns but not really all that bad. They do help you with your sight picture and arm strength too. They're fun and even some of the cheaper ones are pretty darned accurate.

CraigJS
July 26, 2007, 12:18 PM
..

Rex B
July 26, 2007, 12:20 PM
You can still buy the Daisy 747 brand new.

http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=308

It's a nice target pistol with a match-grade barrel and adjustable trigger.
It has just about the right power for indoor use, little noise, and very very accurate.

I have the cheaper 717 which you can find for $50 used.
It is essentially the same gun as the 747 or 777

CraigJS
July 26, 2007, 12:23 PM
Beeman P3, single shot recoilless air, full sized, VERY accurate, great trigger, .177, top rail if a dot sight is your pleasure..
http://www.beeman.com/p3.htm

Be safe.

Tyro
July 26, 2007, 01:06 PM
The Drulov DU-10 (http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=351) is an interesting pistol. It's a 5 shot autoloading CO2 pistol w/ adjustable trigger, sights, and velocity. They're not as accurate as the top-end air pistols, but they don't cost $1300 either.

Pilkington Competition is a good source for new and used air pistols http://www.pilkguns.com/menu_pistol.shtml

You can find some good deals on their forum as well - http://www.targettalk.org/index.php

The CO2 target pistols can be found at very reasonable prices - they're not in vogue any longer, though they're still extremely accurate.

LotI
July 26, 2007, 01:30 PM
I picked up one of these new recently and it's been a great tool for practicing bullseye shooting. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=375877

Muscle memory, sight alignment, breathing and trigger squeeze can all be practiced with an inexpensive airgun. It only costs 1.4 cents per shot and I don't have to drive anywhere.

SeanSw
July 26, 2007, 03:50 PM
I vote for the Beeman P3 and it's design knock-offs, the Marksman 2004 and also the Beeman P17 (I don't know how it differs from the P3 but it's only $35 at the Sportsman's Guide).

My Marksman 2004 has been a lot of fun and taken dozens of birds and rabbits. It is very accurate within it's range with consistent performance. I really don't think you can beat these without spending 3X as much. I'll probably order the P17 just for comparison.

rchernandez
July 26, 2007, 04:05 PM
Great indoor practice. Pellets typically travel through the barrel at a slower rate so you really need to pay attention to follow-through. I have a Daisy 747 and a .22lr bullet trap I purchased from Gil Hebard Guns. For an air pistol, I'd recommend an IZH-46m. Check out Pilkguns.com, they carry a number of AP's including the 46M. Larrysguns.com carries Benelli & Pardini AP's...little pricier.

You might find more discussions re. AP's on Targettalk.com

Justin
July 26, 2007, 05:11 PM
I'll second the Baikal IZH-46m. Good guns for plinking or competition that won't break the bank.

Ian
July 26, 2007, 07:07 PM
Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative to the $160 lefty grips that Pyramid Air has for the Baikal? I'd love to have one, but spending half as much on the grips as the whole gun would hurt a bit...

goings_51
July 26, 2007, 09:08 PM
I think I paid about $40 for a CO2 powered Airsoft at Walmart. It put a hole in a plastic plant pot on my porch! My first backstop was 2 thick towels and cardboard until they started going through that.

My current rig is a Kleenex PDQ box with two layers of denim hung inside like a curtain. Another layer is duck taped to the back in the impact area. A string accross the front with two paper clips holds the target.

I shot 45 rounds into a hole the size of a half dollar last night. I get nearly 100 rounds from one $0.50 CO2 cartridge and it is great for practicing trigger control.

Tyro
July 26, 2007, 09:38 PM
Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative to the $160 lefty grips that Pyramid Air has for the Baikal? I'd love to have one, but spending half as much on the grips as the whole gun would hurt a bit...

That's why I've never considered the 46M. IIRC there are a few options (http://woodsandwateroutdoors.com/IZHPage.htm), but these are nearly as much, or more, than the IZH grips. Plus I don't think that you can order the pistol w/o grips. For lefties - In Soviet Russia the pistol shoots you :cuss:

Jubjub
July 26, 2007, 11:31 PM
Beeman P3, single shot recoilless air, full sized, VERY accurate, great trigger

I second that. Mine is ridiculously accurate, even with bulk Crosman Premier pellets, and has the best trigger of any of my handguns.

The gun does have an issue for lefties. There is a molded in fake mag release button in the normal location. It sticks out enough and is annoying enough that it got dremeled off of my gun.

Part of my routine every morning is ten rounds downrange out of it, at about 25 feet. A one hole group is a very good day, anything outside of the 1" dot target is a bad day. It also accounted for a mouse in my garage; a one shot stop on a running target.

Edit: Post number 177, how apropos.:)

yhtomit
July 27, 2007, 12:03 AM
I have a Crosman 1377 (pump-up single shot long-barreled pistol) which is amazingly accurate, at least considering my personal lack of skill. The first three shots I sent out of it (and not pumped to the same level for any of them) at about 35 feet, braced but casually, formed a group that could be covered by a quarter. I'm sure some people on this board would be embarrassed by such ineptitude, but I was pretty darn pleased with myself. I paid $50 each (I actually bought two at the same time) for mine a few months ago, and am really happy with it.

Neo-Luddite
July 27, 2007, 12:38 AM
http://www.pyramydair.com/p/crosman-1377-pump-pistol.shtml

This is the current version of the one I mentioned about having bought second hand (American Classic). As yhtomit said above, it is very accurate.
For the money, it's a great air pistol.

Ian
July 27, 2007, 12:54 AM
Does anyone have hands-on experience with both the Baikal and the Crossman and/or Daisy guns? Somewhere there's a line between adult toy and entry-level competition piece, and I want the latter. Of the guns mentioned thus far in the thread, which besides the Baikal sit on the competition side of that line?

Thanks for all the input, guys...

Tomcat47
July 27, 2007, 01:11 AM
These are not cheap but they produce some awesome results...These are serious items.

Go to quackenbush air rifles. www.quackenbushairguns.com/

He also makes pistols....incl a pic of one of those. The Exile is a very nice .308 caliber rifle.

The pistol will shoot a 200gr., 45 cal. lead semi-wadcutter bullet at 480 to 520fps, for 3 shots, which is slightly over 100 ft. lbs. These use .45 ACP bullets

Go to his website for more info. :)

MrBorland
July 27, 2007, 08:46 AM
Somewhere there's a line between adult toy and entry-level competition piece, and I want the latter.

I'm torn between this, to. I normally shoot a S&W 686 (and 617) revolver, and lo and behold, a 686 airpistol is available. The advantage here would be to practice on the very same platform. Same grip, same sights, etc. Depending on what you normally shoot, you might be able to find an airclone, and there may be some advantage to considering it, even though it's an "adult toy". OTOH, I already have a Walther CP88 airpistol that falls into the "adult toy" category. It's very fun, and while it function like a revolver in that it can be shot in DA or SA mode, the DA trigger has a different feel than my real revolvers, so in the end, I don't know if there's any real benefit to practicing at home with the "adult toy" if the trigger's so different.

I'm therefore also thinking about something in the "entry competition" category. The Baikals look good as does the Crossman 2300S.

http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Crosman_2300S_Air_Pistol_Co2_p/cro2300s.htm

http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Crosman_2300S_Air_Pistol_Co2_p/cro2300s.htm

CDignition
July 27, 2007, 09:02 AM
Morini, Feinwerkbau are the two I have Exp with. These are precision guns, and they will teach you how to shoot.

bhk
July 27, 2007, 11:05 AM
I have been going through the same process lately of trying to decide between an adult toy (SW 586) and an entry-level competitive gun, even though I will never shoot in competition. I guess I just like nice/accurate guns. Right now one of my top possibilities is a gun from the TAU-7 line:

http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/TAU%20BRNO.html


I am especially interested in the Tau-7 Junior because of the grip design. It looks like it would make two-hand hold practice possible. The weight listed for this model is not correct - it actually weights in at about 27 ounces, a little lighter than most of my real handguns. Price isn't too bad either. The reviews on this pistol are superb. I have looked at the IMH-46Ms. They also get good reviews, but the are huge (16 inches long) and very heavy for some folks. The grips are definitely designed for one-hand holds only.

Trouble is, the Tau-7 Junior is still priced double what a SW 586 is and I might just be satisfied with the 586. Wish more folks would post their experiences with the 586.

Kimber1911_06238
July 27, 2007, 11:06 AM
I used to practice a lot with a pelle pistol as a kid. IMHO, this did not translate to rimfire or centerfire pistols very much. The triggers and sight on low end air pistols tend to be so crude that theydidn't help me improve my pistol skills all that much. but they can be fun!!! just don't expect them to really fine tune your skills.

bhk
July 27, 2007, 11:27 AM
Good point (don't totally agree though), but I just flat like to shoot a lot. I have an advantage over some folks because I have a back-yard pistol/rifle range. I shoot a lot. But the weather does not always cooperate and sometimes I just don't feel like making a lot of noise - especially when I can hear kids/families enjoying the outdoors on the neighboring farms. Good neighbors, you know. But I still want to SHOOT.

I really enjoy shooting my Beeman R-7 .177 scoped rifle during these times and think a quality handgun is also in order. I really do feel shooting my scoped Beeman helps my real rifle shooting, just as I feel shooting my SW 41 .22 target pistol helps my .45 shooting. Shooting is shooting. It all contributes to good skills.

Did you read about the Japanese shooter who practiced almost entirely with air-soft pistols - then came to Columbia, Missouri to win the Bianchi Cup!? No doubt that by shooting the real stuff he would have been even better, but it sure helped develop his skills.

Anyway, I get enough practice with the real stuff. The air gun shooting is pleasurable enhancement for me. I want to do it with quality stuff.

rchernandez
July 27, 2007, 12:48 PM
Ian,
I'd consider the 46M an entry level "adult" choice. In the old Soviet system lefties might have ended up in some Gulag until they learned to shoot "correctly" right-handed:D For lefty grip alternative, check into Vitarbo's on Neal Johnson's website. The Vitarbo grips for S&W41's and 1911's are put together by the folks in NM but the "exotic" pistols are crafted by Arnie himself. They are still pricey but not as much as Rink's or Nill's.
R.

ps.: use to be able to get a 46M for $285, I believe they've since gone up. Beyond the Baikal prices go up quickly to $500 and up for "competition" quality pieces. Pilkguns abd Larrysguns have some selection of used AP's you might consider. I prefer "single stroke pneumatic"...

fflincher
July 27, 2007, 02:06 PM
From Bexar County, Texas, I can tell you that I've been shooting air pistols almost exclusively for the past two months. When it's not raining, the range is soaked!

My favorites are the Daisy 717, the Marksman 2004, the Webley Tempest and the Crosman 1377C. The worst trigger is on the Crosman.

I've got the Daisy 747 and don't like it as much as the 717. The Webley is a challenge because it's a springer, shoots to two different points of aim between one-handed and two-handed holds. It's also louder than the single pumps.

My favorites of the above pistols are the Marksman and the Daisy 717: accurate, repeatable velocities, single cocking strokes, use cheap pellets and still get decent groups at 10-15 yards. The Crosman is there if I need more power than will poke through both sides of an aluminum beverage can. The Marksman takes a bit more muscle than the Daisys. The Daisys are easier for my large fingers to load.

I've bought about $200.00 worth of pellets, targets and airgun accessories from Pyramid Air in the past month. They may not be the cheapest, but they're responsive to my orders and have some interesting discounts.

http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=614
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=1241
http://www.pyramydair.com/p/crosman-1377-pump-pistol.shtml

I'm cheap. Don't want to buy CO2 cartridges or air pumps.
I'm lazy. Don't want to have to pump more than I shoot.

If you'd rather shoot than pump, get something that runs on gas you can load separately.

If I were starting over, I'd skip the 747, but might try the Webley Nemisis.
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=9
I'll pick one up used if I can find it at the right price.

Good luck! There are lots of wonderful choices out there.

fflincher

yhtomit
July 27, 2007, 09:31 PM
a) I think the original version of the same pistol were stocked with genyoowhyun wood; current ones are a heavy plastic in a color that makes 'em look a bit like wood (from a fair distance). The plastic works fine for me -- what can I say, I've never been romantic about wood on rifles, tend to prefer black synthetic, personally.

b) On precision equipment vs. adult toy, I think the Crosman 1377 falls into a third category, which is "no-pretenses plinker" :) The trigger is nothing for the Olympic games, but it's far better than I remember on any of the handful of BB guns I ever fired as a kid. Lots of people use the same model for shooting at small pests, and claim good success at it, so the trigger can't be so bad that it prevents aiming with some precision.

c) It really does take some effort to pump -- a lot more than I'd anticipated. I could see hating it, if I had a sore elbow ;) However, that said, even 3 pumps (the recommended min.) is enough for all the power I need for basement plinking. And many people shoot it with a single pump -- one of my first three shots was one one shot, as an experiment, and it shot just fine.

d) It has a clever combination rear sight -- can be inverted for a peep sight, or left as delivered for a notch-and-post.

e) The prices are all over the place; while I paid just under $50 delivered, I found the same gun at prices close to $80 PLUS shipping (and, I guess, you could do all that and pay tax -- at a Gander Mountain location near home, they were charging full retail ...).

f) Here's a little article (about halfway down the linked page) that I think does a good job of describing the utility of the gun as experienced by one user (incl. winning a bet against a real competition gun):

http://home.att.net/~jjaxelrod/air.html

I only wish I had more chance to shoot mine -- must go home to use it, because the Big Brother that is the Philadelphia City Council doesn't trust adults, never mind children, with air guns.

timothy

Neo-Luddite
July 29, 2007, 03:10 AM
Here's a little article (about halfway down the linked page) that I think does a good job of describing the utility of the gun as experienced by one user (incl. winning a bet against a real competition gun)

Great story on the Crossman--as I noted I've much enjoyed shooting the second hand one off my deck lately. I checked, it was made in 1995. I'm shooting at 4" diameter steel disks (lids from candy tins) hanging from barb wire fence at a distance well beyond target distance for air pistol (apx. 75 feet). In fact, it is proper target distance for slow fire match pistol-25M.

I would cautiously assert that the Crossman can bridge the gap. I would take the chance and buy one, new or used (if used, pump and listen--make sure it holds charge--it mostly will or won't---not much in between). If it doesn't work out as a target gun, it will be of use to you sometime--it has power to spare. It's made it thirty years (since 1977). The only better of the same stripe, is the Benjamin. I got the Cabela's catalog today--the Benjamin (since 1992) made by crossman to old specs, is 129.00. True not made by 'Benjamin' in Racine Wis. anymore--but made in America by a company that cares about quality and staying true to the brand.

I'm thinking about just buying a new one (for the kids, mind you) instead of fixing my old one just now. Except, this time, I'd get it in .22 cal not .177- more flexible.

Either of these two from Crossman would be fully U.S. manufactured, too.

Tyro
July 29, 2007, 01:22 PM
Another avenue to investigate is used match air pistols. You can find these through targettalk.org, yellowforum classifieds, and even gunbroker. Precharged pneumatic (PCP) pistols are favored nowadays, and the earlier generations of C02 and SSP pistols can often be found for very reasonable prices.

koja48
July 29, 2007, 02:46 PM
And I'll cast another vote for the "Izzy" . . . good for honing: target acquisition, sighting, breathing control, trigger mechanics, shooting stance . . . in other words PRACTICE -- and inexpensive practice at that! Left-hand walnut grips courtesy of BloodRed Bows in Texas . . . excellent accuracy (and hell on starlings. Mine happens to like Crosman Premier "Lights"). These are THE bargain of the airgun world.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w305/koja48/Newgrips001.jpg

BlindJustice
July 29, 2007, 03:13 PM
Thanks for the reminder - when I was surfing the net a year or so ago
looking for reviews of the S & W 617 I found a co. that makes a dead ringer
for it as an air pistol. I think I will revisit and find another one on the web
and get a proper bullet trap to hang targets from. My front yard is secluded by a hedge from the street and a 10 yards or so distance would be great practice for sight align./trigger control

As well as some Magpies that show up in the neighborhood

Don't Ask Don't tell.... nudge nudge wink wink

yhtomit
July 29, 2007, 03:40 PM
Re: the Baikal IZH-46m -- For me (cheap, student), $300 still seems a lot for an airgun, esp. since I've never fired one of those target-grade ones, with their seemingly oddball shapes, levers, wazoos, and doohickeys.

However, the more I read up on airguns, the more tempting it looks. (The Beeman P3, though far more conventional looking, also looks like a good basement plinker -- http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=556)

Boy, I'm looking forward to living somewhere airguns are legal ;) (Philadelphia? Ha!)

timothy

koja48
July 29, 2007, 04:30 PM
So homely that it grew on me. Single-stroke underlever cocking, no safety, breech opens upward (leaving breech unlatched until ready to shoot serves as my safety), 5-way adlustable trigger. Except for wood grips, all-metal construction & capable of microscopic groups. $276.00 currently from StraightShooters. Still a bargain, in my mind ($$ increased $30 since I bought mine 2 years ago). I had considered a CO2-powered air pistol, but these are greatly-affected by temperature extremes & are best used indoors in stable temps (velocity changes).

yhtomit
July 29, 2007, 06:20 PM
koja48 -- hey, that's the best price I've seen on them yet, actually: tempty tempty.

I sure like airguns to be hand-pumped -- even if they're cheap, I dislike needing to rely on a part (like the CO2 cartridges so many guns require) that runs down by design (not just through eventual wearing out, like all things eventually do).

And one thing in their favor (besides all the good things you name), guns of the space-ship-oddity design school like this one look much less scary to the type of people who find guns scary; it's easier to see that it's precision equipment rather than a "device made only for killing."

timothy

FrankG
July 30, 2007, 12:56 AM
although not a pistol this would be fun too...

http://www.airforceairguns.com/talonss.html

kgriggs8@yahoo.com
July 30, 2007, 01:20 AM
"I vote for the Beeman P3 and it's design knock-offs, the Marksman 2004 and also the Beeman P17 (I don't know how it differs from the P3 but it's only $35 at the Sportsman's Guide).

My Marksman 2004 has been a lot of fun and taken dozens of birds and rabbits. It is very accurate within it's range with consistent performance. I really don't think you can beat these without spending 3X as much. I'll probably order the P17 just for comparison."

I have the Beeman P-17 and from what I understand it is the same gun as the Marksman 2004. From what I have heard both of these guns are almost as good as the Beeman P-3 but for 1/3 the price. I have never seen a P-3 in person but for the $40 I spent on the Beeman P-17 (with red-dot sight included), I think it is a bargin. It is a very accurate gun and has decent power to boot. I have no doubt that I could take ground squarrels and house sparrows with it if I wanted to. I am not sure it is enough gun for rabbits and starlings but with a well placed head shot, it would probably work.

You could do a lot worse for $40.00 but if you wanted to spend more money, you could get into something a lot nicer. For $400.00 you could get the Beeman P-1 Magnum. It is the king of the air pistol world.

.41 magnum man
July 31, 2007, 04:26 AM
I have a pellet pistol and a air soft pistol. I thing the pellet pistol is a Mark 4, not sure. I meant to look at it before posting this and keep forgetting to. It is a single shot that you pump one time to shoot. It is very accurate. The airsoft I got from Pyramid Air and is a replica of a Beretta auto and has blow back. For me, just holding the sights on something really small and seeing how long I can hold it steady is a pretty good exercise. Dryfiring the air soft while doing this and working to keep the sights lined up through the trigger pull is a good exercise too. Now the Mark pellet gun is very accurate out to about 20 feet. (I mean pinpoint) But I can hit my mail box with it from around 50 yards. The airsoft is only good inside 10 feet. After that the bb goes flying up into the cosmos somewhere. But let me tell you what. I can shoot a #57 gravel up close all day long easy. And you know those carpenter bees that fly around and hover for a few seconds? I have shot a bunch of them out of the air. They come around the porch on my shop, and I see if I can get on them. They don't stay in one place long, so you have to be quick. You might think I am kidding but I am not. Give it a try, you might be surprised to find you hit one one day, and then you will be hooked on shooting those little buggers all the time. And if you can do a wing shot everytime, that would really be something! I shoot wasps and yellow jackets off the side of my building, and spiders too.

The first time I ever shot one of those bees pretty much surprised me. My wife and I had not been married long and were sitting outside in lawn chairs just relaxing. This carpenter bee kept coming around and hovering in front of us for minutes at a atime then fly off, then come back, on and on. I finally got aggravated with the thing and I was going to swat it with something, and it just came to my mind to try and shoot it. I didn't have any pellet guns at that time, so I got my .22 Remington bolt action rifle and came out. My wife thought I was nuts. (She was right.) Anyway, that bee came back and hovered in the same place. I put the sights on that baby and squeezed off a shot and the bee disapeared before our eyes! I went over and sure enough there was part of him laying there. Now that was great. I wanted to do it again, but I didn't want to be shooting that .22 around like that. I figured for that type of small game I better get something that I can shoot in any direction at anytime and not worry about taking out the neighbors picture window. So I got a bb gun, sighted it in up close, and went down to my dog kennel where lots of carpenter bees hung out as well as flies and started shooting. Yes, I even shot some flies too. They were landed, of course. It is a lot of fun. Like I said, just try it and see if you can do it. You will miss a lot, but when you take one out, you know you did something you can really brag about. I remember, a few days after I shot that first bee, my brother inlaw was bragging to my wife how he had slapped one of those carpenter bees down with his bare hand. She told him, "That isn't anything, Jeff shot one out of the air with his .22 rifle!" He was sort of embarrassed, but I LOVED IT!

Oh, just another little story, and amazing as it may sound, this is also the truth: I told my shooting buddy about killing bees with my pellet pistol and he had to one up me. The dirty dog made a little whip out of leather, and he practiced with that thing until he could sit on his porch and when a fly or anything else lands on the railing he can snap that whip and hit that little devil just about everytime!

Chicken-Farmer
August 2, 2007, 07:00 PM
Look at http://www.pilkguns.com and be prepared to be blown away! If you want precision airguns that will put a pellet through the same hole all day long, with a match trigger that will make you wet your pants, check them out. Steyr, morini, hammerli, pardini, and feinwerkbau, these are some of the house names. They aren't cheap, but they are the best of the best. Steyr even makes a semi-auto version (LP50) for shooting steel plates. You can also buy a 1911 style grip for the above pistol to "simulate" the grip on your favorite 1911 style pistol.

Jeff

Catbird
August 2, 2007, 07:41 PM
I have recently become interested in backyard plinking with airguns and have purchased a few. One of the better deals out there (IMO) is the Beeman P17; I bought this one not long ago from www.midsouthshooterssupply.com for less than $40 SHIPPED. The trigger is unbelieveably sweet for such an inexpensive pistol.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/Catbird1/Airgun-Pics008.jpg

zoom6zoom
August 2, 2007, 10:37 PM
I've got a few of these:
http://www.militarygunsupply.com/images/militaria/predom.JPG
It's a Polish version of the Walther LP53. If it looks familiar it's because the Walther is used in one of the posters for "From Russia with Love."

Very solid, feels like a real handgun rather than a pellet gun. And hard to beat for fifty bucks.
http://www.militarygunsupply.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=POLTARP

Tyro
August 2, 2007, 11:06 PM
zoom6zoom do you know whether that supplier does an evaluation of these pistols?

I remember reading a few reviews on the yellowforum (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/) suggesting that some of these were really beat-up - not just the cosmetics, the seals and chambers were badly damaged. But then I think that CA was selling them for ~$25 w/ a minimum order of 3.

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