Carry gun while driving a commercial vehicle?


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redbearde
July 25, 2007, 09:03 PM
I'm currently in school working toward getting my CDL, and I've heard several opinions already. What I want to know is the law. I have a carry permit from TN. If I stay in TN or any state with reciprocity, is it a crime, specifically a federal crime, for me to carry my gun with me while I work/drive my commercial vehicle?

I know some companies have policies against it. That's not what I'm interested in.

I can't find anything here: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/

and I find one "expert" saying this:
http://www.landlinemag.com/Archives/2002/Feb2002/sneak_preview/guns_trucks.html

“Can I carry a gun in my truck” is one of the most frequently asked questions we get. Here’s the truth: According to the U.S. Constitution, you have the right to bear arms and there’s no rule in the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSR) prohibiting you from carrying a gun in your truck. But, depending on what state you’re driving in, you may not be able to legally carry a gun in your tractor. Remember, simply having a concealed gun permit in your home state doesn’t exempt you from all other state laws.

and I've had other "experts" tell me something pretty much akin to this:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Trucking-2220/truckdrivers-handguns.htm

It is illegal to carry a gun in a commercial vehicle, period. There are no permits or exceptions. I hear guys saying they carry guns. If it got stolen, or worse, you shot someone breaking in, you could be in a world of hurt too!

So what I'm looking for is a citation or reference to an actual law or OSHA,FMCSA, or other Fed Agency regulation which would govern this.

So any leads, anyone?

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Andrewsky
July 25, 2007, 09:44 PM
I've seen threads like this before and no one's ever been able to show that there's a federal regulation against it.

Guntalk
July 25, 2007, 10:17 PM
This is drop dead simple as far as DOT regs.

There is no DOT regulation prohibiting you from a gun in a commercial vehicle.

Unfortunately, some of the truck driving schools actually have doctored the text books to say that there is a regulation prohibiting it, but there is not.

Many trucking companies have policies prohibiting it, but that's not a law or regulation.

george29
July 26, 2007, 02:24 AM
Watcha gonna do if you are ordered via Qualcom to enter a U.S Military Installation for a p/u or delivery? The answer is lose your job because the OD will contact your company to let them know, it has happened to me (though my boss was cool and didn't fire me) but Swift / Werner will just tell you to lock the cab and give the keys to the nice MP's on your way to the bus station. Get a local job maybe where you are certain not to go into military installations.

Thefabulousfink
July 26, 2007, 02:41 AM
Just my $.02 (and probably worth less).

I am not a lawyer or truck driver, but I've been reading a lot of CCW laws lately. If you are driving in a state that you have a CCW or reciprocity then their is no legal thing that a LEO can do do you. If you are driving for a state that you have a CCW to another state where you have a CCW then the pistol needs to be unloaded and locked in a case.

That should protect you from legal issues. When you get a job as a driver, be sure and read the company policies carefully. If your company forbids the carrying of handguns and you get caught, YOU WILL LOSE YOUR JOB, don't bother calling a lawyer, there is nothing you can do. If the policy is vauge you might or might not lose your job but will have grounds to fight it. The "rule of thumb" in reality is: If you have to ask the answer is NO. But in Law, the rule is: If you have to ask the case can be thrown out of court.

As for military bases: I've drove onto an Air Force base with a CCW. I checked it at the front gate, and picked it up when I left. I don't see why the MPs would take the trouble to call the company that I worked for, but if other have personal experience ....

gunsmith
July 26, 2007, 03:24 AM
and I asked the teacher who was signing me up.
he said you would have to notify state police every
time you entered a state, he was just saying that as a way
to deter me, I could tell right away he didn't know what he was talking about. If you have reciprocity you have reciprocity.
If anyone tells you different they're blowing smoke, they can't find a fed reg because there aint one.

If your company does not allow it thats a different story.

paramedic70002
July 26, 2007, 08:32 AM
Ask the ignoramus to cite the pertinent law that forbids interstate transport of a firearm by motor carrier.

redbearde
July 26, 2007, 08:42 AM
thanks for the info, guys.

Mat, not doormat
July 26, 2007, 09:01 AM
As far as I've been able to tell, the only Federal law on point is Title 18 Setcion 926(a). The peacable journey law.

TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS

Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person
who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting,
shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a
firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully
possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully
possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the
firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being
transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the
passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in
the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's
compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked
container other than the glove compartment or console.


Beyond that, you're into state law, reciprocity, etc. Take a laptop with you, (handy for doing logs, too) bookmark packing.org, and handgunlaw.us. Use them as part of your trip plan. Eventually you'll start to get to know the various states, but they're such a morasse of differing rules, that it's a good idea to check every time.

Also, stay away from the big companies, as they've all got lose your job clauses. PM me if you want to know why I don't drive for Prime, Inc., anymore.

Bottom line: yes, it's legal, yes, it's a hassle. Now do you see why I favor a nationwide CHL?

~~~Mat

NavyLCDR
July 26, 2007, 09:22 AM
You absolutely, if it is not against company policy, to carry the weapon according to the Federal law stated above - it does not matter what state law says. But it has to be unloaded and locked in an exterior compartment.

As far as concealed carry or loaded carry in the cab - regardless of whether you have a CCL, CCW or whatever the concealed license is called - you MUST obey the STATE laws of the state you are CURRENTLY PHYSICALLY located in. Your home state laws and the state laws of where your CCL is from have NO BEARING upon the state laws where you are located, recieprocity or not. Just like the speed limit - whatever the speed limit is on the highway you are on - it does not matter what the speed limit is on the highway you just came from.

Every state is different - in some you have to notify police - IF YOU ENCOUNTER THEM - IE traffic stop or ?weigh stations? - if you are carrying concealed - some states you do not. But you do NOT in any state, have to notify the state police upon entry. I am not sure about weigh stations...

And if you are carry the weapon in accordance with the Federal law above - you have NO duty at all to inform police of the firearm - but it would be a courteous thing to do.

gunsmith
July 27, 2007, 04:46 PM
But it has to be unloaded and locked in an exterior compartment.

NavyLCDR
July 27, 2007, 04:50 PM
Correct about certain state's law concerning carry in a vehicle, however, in order to be lawful according to the Federal Law in those states that are more restrictive, the above condition must be met.

JamisJockey
July 27, 2007, 04:54 PM
Watcha gonna do if you are ordered via Qualcom to enter a U.S Military Installation for a p/u or delivery? The answer is lose your job because the OD will contact your company to let them know, it has happened to me (though my boss was cool and didn't fire me) but Swift / Werner will just tell you to lock the cab and give the keys to the nice MP's on your way to the bus station. Get a local job maybe where you are certain not to go into military installations.

I don't know why most MP's wouldn't hold it at the gate for a good ole American truck driver. Throw on a support the troops T shirt and a POW hat for good measure.

hso
July 27, 2007, 05:12 PM
Drivers check in their stunners and knives and pepper spray and firearms all the time at the gates of DOE facilities and just pick them back up when they drive back out.

elrod
July 27, 2007, 07:42 PM
Out here, in the practical world, truckers carry. I drive an 18-wheeler delivering gasoline in Alabama. We deliver to stations in the 'hood as well as in well-heeled areas. We deliver 24hrs/day. It's not a good feeling being a white delivery man unloading next to a project at 8pm Friday evening. One of my fellow drivers (there are only 4 drivers with my company) was robbed at gun point a few months ago. My boss does not require us to carry, but strongly supports it (off the record, of course). The only time I've been uneasy was delivering a load of jet fuel to a local Air Force Base shortly after 9/11. They were using bomb dogs then, and the base gates were guarded by live automatic weapons. The M60 in my briefcase was not a comfort on that trip! But then what's a handgun compared with 9000 gallons of JP-8 as far as threats go? :D
I can understand the big boys (Swift, J.B., etc.) not allowing carry. After you get your CDL, and a little road time, find yourself a smaller company that can be more flexible. I've been out here over 15 yrs, both OTR and local, and have never had a problem with the DOT or any locals. I know some posters will belittle me for not following the letter of the law, and if they've "been there, done that", fine. If they haven't been there, dont get on my case!:mad: The cops can't be there 24/7.

george29
July 27, 2007, 08:13 PM
I don't know why most MP's wouldn't hold it at the gate for a good ole American truck driver. Throw on a support the troops T shirt and a POW hat for good measure.


Just telling it the way it happened to me at Kirtland.

engineer151515
August 6, 2007, 12:12 PM
It is illegal to carry a gun in a commercial vehicle, period. There are no permits or exceptions. I hear guys saying they carry guns. If it got stolen, or worse, you shot someone breaking in, you could be in a world of hurt too!

Seems to me that the guy in a world of hurt would be the guy shot trying to break in.

:)

armoredman
August 6, 2007, 12:18 PM
I drove local, haz mat, and oxygen, and always had either a Walther PPK or Tarus 85 38 snub, (the days before I knew CZ!), ad my boss didn't bat an eye. No big deal in AZ. Get your AZ shall issue CCW permit, and it's ALL good here.

nalioth
August 6, 2007, 04:02 PM
You guys are thinking small potatoes.

What happens when you pick up a load destined for Canada?

isp2605
August 6, 2007, 04:43 PM
I was one of the first of 2 Troops certified to enforce motor carrier safety laws and I later taught MCS law in our academy.
There is no federal law prohibiting the driver from carrying a firearm in his rig. However, the driver is subject to whatever state laws they may be driving thru.
What drivers are aware of, or should be, is that LEOs do not need a warrant or probable cause to stop and inspect a commercial rig. Commercial rigs are treated differently than Joe Citizen cruising down the road in his Dodge Dart. An MCS officer can stop commercial rigs at random and conduct an MCS inspection which includes the contents of the cab. If a firearm is in view and is being transported in violation of state/local laws then the driver can be charged.
Drivers are also restricted by company policy. If a company says no guns then it's up to the driver to decide if he wishes to comply or to take his services elsewhere.

george29
August 6, 2007, 07:03 PM
Thanks isp

larry_minn
August 6, 2007, 07:25 PM
Did a short stint as OTR driver. IF you are legal in states you are in don't worry. More then one truck I have seen the drivers seat had a pistol mounted to right side. Often with a chunk of seat cover (covering) it. (so someone looking in from pass side/lower window couldn't see it)
When you get close to NY city you pull over and it gets unloaded/cased in sleeper (I often forgot) Opps.
Military bases.... Ufta. Lots of options. Some I contacted ahead of time and got instructions on how to handle at gate. Some they just said "You can't bring a gun onto a military base...Nobody would be safe if guns were allowed on base"
Some options. if going onto bases without warning/Canada/etc a concern. Get a box that will hold your gun securly. Take it to post Office and find out postage to send it to yourself from anywhere in USA.
IF this happens (must go on base/out of USA/etc. ) Put frame (thats the gun part with serial numbers) and send it to yourself insured. (its been a few yrs but last I heard that was still legal anywhere in USA) check it yourself.
Unless you are doing something you shouldn't. The sleeper of your truck is not bothered much. Most people (IMO rightly) feel that is your living space (home) on the road and keep out.
If I decided to go back OTR I would bring a firearm (or two) and keep a map of which states I am legal/not.

Prince Yamato
August 6, 2007, 07:42 PM
If you have a CCW, then all you need to do is follow state laws. As another poster said, if you're going to a military base or sensitive installation where they search your vehicle, call ahead and ASK. You can't go to jail for ASKING. I mean, hell, you're delivering THEIR sensitive goods. If I were on the receiving end, I'd be happy to know my goods were being protected by armed drivers. If the receivers throw a fit, mention truck-jackings and people getting mugged. It's common sense.

runfrumu
August 6, 2007, 07:44 PM
I'm a service tech for a large cable provider, and while there may not be a law banning you from doing so, companies generally have restriction's against doing it.

elrod
August 6, 2007, 07:49 PM
nalioth
What happens when you pick up a load destined for Canada?
Simple, just turn it down.:cool:

MT GUNNY
August 6, 2007, 08:49 PM
My mother is a truck driver and has recently ask me about carring in her rig .
So i started to compile some info from places such as Packing.org and opencarry.org , When I stumbeld upon a very well written book named
somthing along the lines of "Gun laws of the fifty states" $9.99 at the local
sporting goods store.

In a nut shell I think if a trucker keeps a firearm in a locked container inaccesible from the driver compartment seperat from ammo and (dont stop unless for gas and emergency In certin states like DC and there is a couple others,) that would be compliant with all states.

That above is worst case senario, All states have their own laws like open carry is fine cc is not ecept with a permit and so on . I atempted to figgure witch CCPs she would need to cover the US completely, This is almost imposible , the best I found for her situation was have a MT permit among two others and that would cover most states ecept WA CA and most of the eastern seaboard states and a couple near the great lakes.

In that book there was a section on a Federal Interstate law,
Im shure someone knows the name of it but It refurs to Traveling across country to a destination and how you can legaly transport firearms through
a state that more or less Does Not alow firearms of any kind like DC,
As long as your traveling (IE traveling) through one of these Anti states
and do not stop unless for gas or an emergency you are within your rights.

So while talking with my mom I asked her if ther was a compartment that could be accesed from both the inside and outside of her truck , she said yes so I told her if she bought a firearm, that would be where i would put it. One reason if she got pulled over, and the state she happend to be in has to have the weapon in the trunk inaccecible to passenger compartment!!!

If done right everything would be fine.

nalioth
August 6, 2007, 10:02 PM
nalioth
What happens when you pick up a load destined for Canada?
Simple, just turn it down.

Some of us didn't have that option when we were driving. :(

Car Knocker
August 6, 2007, 10:05 PM
As long as your traveling (IE traveling) through one of these Anti states and do not stop unless for gas or an emergency you are within your rights.
Technically true. However, if she were to be caught with an unlicensed handgun in New York City, for example, she would accrue sizeable attorney's fees to prevail.

MT GUNNY
August 6, 2007, 10:29 PM
Yea But she would be legal!!

Whitch brings me to my next question ,
Why is it that a state can work around a Federal Law like the one i talked about in previous post?

larry_minn
August 6, 2007, 11:19 PM
Also (please double check on this as well) they used to (I HEARD never did it myself) That they will hold your pistol at border for a day on USA side. (Did I mention check on this BEFORE you get close to border)?

george29
August 8, 2007, 11:54 AM
Had to deliver on the Airbase yesterday, had ample warning so I left the gun in my car. It was a perfunctionary ID search only but this was going thru the regular entrance, as I passed the contractors entrance, they were physically searching the cabs and "wanding" the people. I asked if they would allow me to check my weapon in with the AP to which I was told no, I would just be refused entrance and they would contact the local police and my employer (had I been carrying) so I would suspect that anyone on this forum that assumes that the nice AP's are going to be "reasonable" have another "think" coming.

HimNAz
August 8, 2007, 12:22 PM
One idea is to contact gun shops in the area and ask if they offer gun cleaning services. If so, leave the gun there. Sort of a last resort. Expensive but better than losing your job (maybe).

Zach S
August 8, 2007, 12:52 PM
Your Commercial Vehicle: No. Perfectly legal, as long as its locked up when it needs to be. Your truck, your rules. One of the great things about being an owner/op.

A company truck: No. Perfectly legal, as long as its locked up when it needs to be. But if they get wind of it you may get fired. So...

Keep enough money on hand for a bus ticket, plane ticket, rental car, as well as cabfare to wherever. Just in case they find out, and are dumb enough to fire you in the middle of a run.

Tepidlake
May 10, 2009, 08:55 PM
There are no laws prohibiting firearms in commercial vehicles, but ALL state laws apply in whichever state you happen to be in!

My personal experience follows:

I was stopped by a State Trooper for a DOT inspection in Utah. Having a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit, I am required to notify any officer that contacts me that I am a permit holder. When the officer asked for my license and medical card, I mentioned that I had a permit and handed it to him with my license and medical. He asked if I had a gun. I told him I had one in the truck. He replied, "OK," handed back the permit, and proceeded with the inspection. He was perfectly nice about the whole thing and never said a word about my gun.

One thing that I am unclear about is whether or not there are any regulations regarding firearms in commercial vehicles while transporting hazmat. Does anyone know about that?

Rockwell1
May 10, 2009, 09:24 PM
Just say "NO" to posting in zombie threads

SCKimberFan
May 10, 2009, 09:31 PM
Answer
Hi Scott.

It is illegal to carry a gun in a commercial vehicle, period. There are no permits or exceptions. I hear guys saying they carry guns. If it got stolen, or worse, you shot someone breaking in, you could be in a world of hurt too!

Bob Stephens

I wonder who appointed Bob Stephens the official answer man. :neener:

NC-Mike
May 10, 2009, 10:27 PM
You may find this site helpful.

http://www.carryconcealed.net/packngo


What can protect you as you travel through anti states is the firearm owners protection act, signed by Reagan. Gun has to be in a locked compartment, away from occupants and ammo in a separate locked compartment.

Believe its referred to as safe passage.

NC-Mike
May 10, 2009, 10:32 PM
Another thing to consider gentlemen.

When is a firearm not considered a firearm?

In many states that is when the gun is broken down in separate pieces and locked in separate compartments.

For instance. If I strip off the slide and barrel and stick it in a locked compartment, then put the frame, that also happens to have a trigger lock on it, in yet another locked compartment, do I really have a "firearm" in my vehicle or do I have parts of a firearm in my vehicle?

flrfh213
May 10, 2009, 10:53 PM
my employer will fire me for having a ccw in a work truck... i had to pull up Florida law to keep my job for having it in my personal truck in the parking lot at work... but that is county government for ya...

nalioth
May 10, 2009, 10:54 PM
Just say "NO" to posting in zombie threads Ah, but your advice just falls on deaf ears . . .

Eric F
May 10, 2009, 11:08 PM
I did from time to time have a firearm in my rig when I drove over the 4 years I did it. Here is my deal. Most Armored cars fall into "comercial vehicals" and most of them are armed. Be aware however of the unsceen enemy here. Some places(not even states but localities) have miniscule off the wall laws. Like violence in the work place laws restricting weapon posession.

Car Knocker
May 11, 2009, 12:46 AM
I was stopped by a State Trooper for a DOT inspection in Utah. Having a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit, I am required to notify any officer that contacts me that I am a permit holder.
FYI, that regulation expired and was not renewed.

If I get stopped by a police officer, do I, as a permit holder, have to tell the officer that I have a gun in my possession?

Although there is no legal requirement to identify yourself to a law enforcement officer, it is recommended to do so.

If an officer finds or sees a gun on your person during their contact with you, and you have not identified yourself as a permit holder in legal possession of a firearm, the officer must assume you are carrying the gun illegally and will take defensive action. For the safety of all involved, it is better to immediately identify yourself to the officer as a permit holder in possession of a handgun. This action gives the officer some assurance they are most likely dealing with a law abiding citizen.

http://www.des.utah.gov/bci/FAQ.html#2

larry_minn
May 11, 2009, 01:25 AM
Quote:
If I get stopped by a police officer, do I, as a permit holder, have to tell the officer that I have a gun in my possession?

Although there is no legal requirement to identify yourself to a law enforcement officer, it is recommended to do so.


Actually that not entirely true. Some states DO REQUIRE you to infom a officer if you are stopped. You are responsible to follow the law in the state you are in.

flynlr
May 11, 2009, 04:33 AM
hi there MR Guntalk Tom. You know that old DOT question oughta come up every now and then on Guntalk yet in the last 3 years of not missing a minute of the show only 400 callers have brought it up. someone ought make a armedtrucker.com website. my sarcasm button is now in neutral .

NC-Mike
May 11, 2009, 07:24 AM
Actually that not entirely true. Some states DO REQUIRE you to infom a officer if you are stopped. You are responsible to follow the law in the state you are in.

And that is the truth. Individual State laws are what you have to worry about and in some cases, local laws as well.

That's why the NRA pushes Exemption laws, so laws are uniform Statewide and one doesn't stumble into a country or municipality and instantly become a criminal.

The only Federal Law that can protect you is the FOPA but you have to have the weapon and ammo stored properly.

Car Knocker
May 11, 2009, 12:00 PM
Actually that not entirely true. Some states DO REQUIRE you to infom a officer if you are stopped. You are responsible to follow the law in the state you are in.
It is entirely true for Utah, which was the subject of the post I was responding to. The quoted information was from the State of Utah BCI site and pertains to Utah.

saltydog452
May 11, 2009, 12:28 PM
I've carried, or had access to, a PPK from border to border and water to water.

On occasion, it was an aggrivation.

Some consignees, rightly, insist that there be no passengers in the sleeper compartment, no cameras, no weapons, or 'near' weapons, etc.

Military, petro-chemical, USPS facilities, State and Federal correction facilities come to mind.

No doubt Homeland Security has ratcheted up 'right now' restrictions while the various laws take time to implement.

salty

Hungry Seagull
May 11, 2009, 12:46 PM
Hm. Much different than my time out there. 15-20 years of brainwashing by the Company Stooges sprouting risk management.

If I get back into it, Im packing.

nalioth
May 11, 2009, 01:02 PM
Actually that not entirely true. Some states DO REQUIRE you to infom a officer if you are stopped. You are responsible to follow the law in the state you are in
Yes,10 states require that you must notify the officer that you are carrying.They are:

AK,LA,MI,NE,NC,OH,OK,SC,TX and UT. Before we start making new laws here...

In Texas, you ONLY have to inform if you have a CHL.

If you do not have a CHL, you do not have to inform.

I love zombie threads :fire:

Car Knocker
May 11, 2009, 01:09 PM
Yes,10 states require that you must notify the officer that you are carrying.They are:

AK,LA,MI,NE,NC,OH,OK,SC,TX and UT.

Utah no longer has this requirement.

NavyLCDR
May 11, 2009, 01:20 PM
What can protect you as you travel through anti states is the firearm owners protection act, signed by Reagan. Gun has to be in a locked compartment, away from occupants and ammo in a separate locked compartment.

Once again, FOPA is quoted incorrectly.

NC-Mike
May 11, 2009, 01:56 PM
From my understanding of the law, neither the firearm nor the ammunition should be accessible and since the firearm needs to be unloaded, I don't think it a great idea to store them in the same compartment. That may require you to engage in a legal discussion with some State Trooper. Not a desired scenario.

I do admit my interpretation comes from the fact I am driving a van without a separate compartment.

What it your interpretation of this law:


TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS

Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person
who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting,
shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a
firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully
possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully
possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the
firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being
transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the
passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in
the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's
compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked
container other than the glove compartment or console.

NavyLCDR
May 11, 2009, 02:56 PM
My interpretation of FOPA is, at least to me, exactly what it says. The firearm must be unloaded, and both the firearm and the ammo must be separated from the occupants of the vehicle by a lock. HOWEVER, FOPA never requires the ammo to be separated from the gun.

Many people mistakenly assume that they have an unloaded gun in the trunk, and, since they mistakenly assume the ammo must be separate, they advocate carrying the ammo in the passenger compartment in a location such as a console or glovebox, which is actually in violation of FOPA.

NC-Mike
May 11, 2009, 03:26 PM
It would seem you are correct, according to the law and I stand corrected. I almost knew that was going to happen... Its been a while since I thought about the FOPA.

That said, I would still rather separate the guns and ammo into two separate compartments if possible.

What about carrying loaded magazines? Any issues you are aware of? I don't think you would want to travel the interstates with loaded mags.

NC-Mike
May 11, 2009, 03:31 PM
And here may be a "grey area" for vehicles without a separate compartment from the occupants, such as a van.

"Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."


"or" not "and"

That could be important...

runrabbitrun
May 11, 2009, 03:38 PM
And here may be a "grey area" for vehicles without a separate compartment from the occupants, such as a van.

"Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."


"or" not "and"

That could be important...

OK I'm in NC and have a small truck and like Mike,
I have no secure place to lock a gun and ammo in a box but in the cab.

Am I going to jail?
Or do I have to duct tape the locked box
to the outside of my truck on the roof?

These laws are insane man, insane I tell you. :banghead:

NC-Mike
May 11, 2009, 03:55 PM
OK I'm in NC and have a small truck and like Mike,
I have no secure place to lock a gun and ammo in a box but in the cab.

Am I going to jail?
Or do I have to duct tape the locked box
to the outside of my truck on the roof?

These laws are insane man, insane I tell you.

LOL...

Most of this thread does relate to Interstate travel. If you are a resident of NC and stay in NC, you only have to worry about NC's laws.

One interesting note about state law and concealed carry. SC and NC reciprocate but the laws differ. In NC you can leave your gun on the front seat, in plain view, while you drive. If you drive into SC, you must conceal it on your person or in the glove. This assumes you have a valid carry license.

The State laws can get you. It pays to be educated on them.

runrabbitrun
May 11, 2009, 04:22 PM
Mike I can't make heads or tails of many of these laws.

Do you know if said non concealed handgun on a seat has to be registered in the great state of NC before you can OC?

Jeffreii
May 11, 2009, 04:43 PM
Answer
Hi Scott.

It is illegal to carry a gun in a commercial vehicle, period. There are no permits or exceptions. I hear guys saying they carry guns. If it got stolen, or worse, you shot someone breaking in, you could be in a world of hurt too!

Bob Stephens
*adds a wikipedia "citation needed" tag*

Ha! Keep in mind, LEO vehicles are commercial as well, mr stephens. The officer you called out, will for sure leave his arms back at the precinct now after he heard that!


I drive a truck and some states (such as CA) I ask about various laws about the guns and each state says their own thing (I ask DOT officers/State Police officers at the scale/port of entry stations). CA has sort of a "Don't ask/Don't tell" setup, which, come to think of it, I never get asked if I have any guns when Im in my tractor (I'm owner op) but I usually DO when I'm in a regular car/pickup truck.

Also keep in mind, that although they are technically illegal because no state law (or even Federal law) can annul the Constitutional Law (as far as I'm concerned, but that is a whole dif. story), many places that are State owned (such as a rest area) put up signs saying "No firearms" and whatnot. Many scale facilities do as well, but they are usually more limited to the building itself. Interpret "premises" for yourself. Ohio has put up a footnote, however, stating "Unless otherwise authorized by law" - so, as far as I'm concerned, the Second Amendment does actually state you can keep and bear a gun.

Yes, many companies state "no guns allowed" (and the like) policies. This is not just who you work for, but who you pickup/deliver to. Many companies put up signs stating they don't allow any guns on their property. They never check unless it is a high security place or an illegal one (where they don't like things such as a camera of video recorder around, since there is not "secret" product they make, the only reason I could see as to why they don't want anything recorded would be because of something illegal going on...many places live in a spirit of fear rather than that of a sound mind) and all the ones I have been checked out at mostly are into the side compartments, engine compartments, and the cab area, and are usually looking for things much more than a simple firearm, such as drugs/explosives/people (US Customs facilities, anyway) others such as mines and whatnot, have their own things. No pets/passengers/guns/recording devices are usually the biggest "searched for" items, but not too excessively... ie.. they don't rummage through everything you have and treat you like you're a terrorist.

As far as legal info, technically, my tractor is both my place of residence AND my place of business, BOTH of which is commonly exempted from the many [i will add, illegal, because the Constitution is over state laws] of the limitations imposed to guns/gun owners. There are plenty (such as myself) who basically do live out of the truck, and it IS my place of business, especially since I own the truck myself and run my own business in, through, from, and out of it.

The most harassment I have ever had with my guns is treat me like I'm a terrorist and/or check serial numbers and see if the gun(s) are stolen.

Also, add "ports" to the Military facilities/Canada type list too, as many of them have "edge of US Soil" type setups, and US Customs Officers all over and Customs Checkpoints. Many places make you turn in even anything with a camera on it (such as your cell phone) among other things. All that stuff takes up your time, and last time I checked, I wasn't paid for any of it.

so anyway...some more info on it all.

NavyLCDR
May 11, 2009, 05:07 PM
And here may be a "grey area" for vehicles without a separate compartment from the occupants, such as a van.

"Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."


"or" not "and"

That could be important...

The statute is written to allow transporting of firearms, ammunition or any combination thereof. The "or" just assumes that you might be carrying either a firearm alone or ammunition alone. The word "Provided," at the begining of this sentance ties this sentance to the rest of the section and the rest of the section makes it clear that neither ammo nor firearms can be accessible.

What about carrying loaded magazines? Any issues you are aware of? I don't think you would want to travel the interstates with loaded mags.

Unfortunately, there is no definition of unloaded in the federal statue, so you are at the mercy of state laws in that regard. In all but a couple of states the loaded magazines are no issue at all (according to statutes, not opiniated officers or others).

NC-Mike
May 11, 2009, 05:21 PM
Mike I can't make heads or tails of many of these laws.

Do you know if said non concealed handgun on a seat has to be registered in the great state of NC before you can OC?

If you are a resident of NC, I would think no because NC does not require hand guns to be "registered."

Out of state resident? I have no idea what that would entail.

mljdeckard
May 11, 2009, 05:24 PM
I have not heard that Utah no longer requires notification. We recently changed laws for parking lots of workplaces and needing a permit to keep loaded in a car, but I am not aware of any change to requirement to notify. I will let you know that LE know if you are a permit holder when they run your license.

NC-Mike
May 11, 2009, 05:25 PM
The statute is written to allow transporting of firearms, ammunition or any combination thereof. The "or" just assumes that you might be carrying either a firearm alone or ammunition alone. The word "Provided," at the begining of this sentance ties this sentance to the rest of the section and the rest of the section makes it clear that neither ammo nor firearms can be accessible.

That makes it a little clearer. Notice how one must comb through these laws in the most diligent manner in order to understand them.

Unfortunately, there is no definition of unloaded in the federal statue, so you are at the mercy of state laws in that regard. In all but a couple of states the loaded magazines are no issue at all (according to statutes, not opiniated officers or others).

The ambiguity in these matter is indeed unfortunate. I try to err on the side of caution and avoid transporting loaded mags.

Thanks for your help NavyLT.

Rellian
May 11, 2009, 05:57 PM
I have not heard that Utah no longer requires notification. We recently changed laws for parking lots of workplaces and needing a permit to keep loaded in a car, but I am not aware of any change to requirement to notify. I will let you know that LE know if you are a permit holder when they run your license.

I recently was stopped by a LEO here in Utah in one of the VERY rare moments I was not carrying, hence there was nothing of which to inform him in this regard.
Upon his return from his 'in-cruiser confab' with the big brother network he proceeded to ask me in an extremely serious tone if 1) I was carrying a concealed weapon and 2) I realized that I had to inform him of such if question #1 had been true. (it did indeed flag me as a CC permit holder)
He calmed down when he realized why I hadn't said anything.
The short of it: Even if the law has changed it doesn't mean the LEOs necessarily realize it.

NC-Mike
May 11, 2009, 09:24 PM
Best bet... Just hand the officer your CC license with your drivers license and let him know if you're carrying or not.

Most officers will appreciate dealing with a CCW holder because they know right away you don't have a criminal record and you follow the law. I'm not saying the cop is going to buy you a hot dog but if you're friendly and forthcoming, you should expect to be treated well.

Cocked & Locked
May 12, 2009, 03:11 PM
This is an interesting thread with lots of opinions.

I don't have a CDL but am riding as a passenger for the heck of it with a friend from NC to Alabama next week. This guy has told me a few years ago that federal law states, "no firearms in commercial trucks."

He's going to be driving a rented Penske tractor and pulling a borrowed trailer. In Alabama we will be loading on city owned property.

I've been trying to find info about this on the net today and find confusing info. This thread still makes me wonder. :scrutiny:

My NC concealed carry permit is honored by the states we'll be traveling thru.

Confused :banghead:

Ridgerunner665
May 12, 2009, 03:30 PM
I been driving for more miles than I care to count (several million)...I've dealt with DOT and police more than once.

There is no federal law saying you can't carry in a truck. I been doing it for YEARS.

Ports, military bases, foreign trade zones, Canada....rent a motel room for your pistol. I tend to hide only the frame and take the rest with me...so if anybody does happen to find it, they don't get the whole gun.

mljdeckard
May 12, 2009, 03:42 PM
No info on Utah's BCI web site. Looking at AG's page, one moment,

Sent email to Atty Gen's office, I will post reply.

isp2605
May 12, 2009, 04:37 PM
I've been trying to find info about this on the net today and find confusing info. This thread still makes me wonder.
Read my post #20 from Aug 6, 2007. That info is still correct. No federal law and nothing in the FMCSA.

EOD Guy
May 12, 2009, 05:14 PM
There is no Federal law or regulation that prohibits firearms in commercial vehicles.

See the link for a letter of interpretation from DOT that should settle the matter as far as Federal Law is concerned.

PHMSA Interpretation No. 06-0165 (http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/portal/site/PHMSA/menuitem.ebdc7a8a7e39f2e55cf2031050248a0c/?vgnextoid=555bc0515d544110VgnVCM1000009ed07898RCRD&vgnextchannel=aa8cd3c1af814110VgnVCM1000009ed07898RCRD&vgnextfmt=print)

Please note that the answer was coordinated with the FMCSA.

Dan Crocker
May 12, 2009, 05:19 PM
I'd say that since the commercial vehicle is big, you might as well go crew-served!

isp2605
May 12, 2009, 05:28 PM
HazMat laws and MCS laws are separate but as EOD Guy posted neither prohibit the carrying of a firearm by commercial drivers.
Where some get it screwed up, which appears to be the reason for the letter posted by EOD Guy, is there are HazMat restrictions on ammo. People who don't understand the law when they read it jump to the conclusion that ammo in a gun is the same as ammo being restricted by hazmat regs. Not so. As the letter confirms, what the hazmat regs are talking about is the cargo, not personally owned items.

NavyLCDR
May 12, 2009, 05:43 PM
As the letter confirms, what the hazmat regs are talking about is the cargo, not personally owned items.

Just like travelling by air with ammo in checked baggage. To SHIP ammo by air takes all kinds of hoop jumping, but to check ammo in baggage is relatively easy.

rscalzo
May 12, 2009, 10:53 PM
LEO vehicles are commercial

No they are not. they do not come under state commercial vehicle regulations. They are either Municipal, County or State registered vehicles.

flrfh213
May 13, 2009, 12:26 AM
hmmm second post... i drove truck for years and it was my second home.... lived in my cab-over international for 2 weeks at a time... do home laws apply????

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