military worth it?


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Bezoar
July 26, 2007, 10:31 AM
I love guns, want to own as many as i can and shoot as many as I can. However Im unemployed and everyone in my family is telling to join the naval reserves or the coast gaurd as they think

two associate degrees and a titanium plate will keep you in a desk job on dry land.
and they say that ill get to shoot alot of small arms and machine guns in either of them.

can you help me out with this? Iit is tempting but im leary after seeing so many army construction jobs that are nothing but tricks to get more general infantry over to iraq.

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bdutton
July 26, 2007, 10:35 AM
I heard from a Marine that the best service to enter is the Air Force. Go figure.

hoglaw
July 26, 2007, 10:38 AM
There are better reasons for enlisting than shooting. If that is your motivation you will be disappointed.

Leatherneck
July 26, 2007, 10:39 AM
If it's simply a gun Jones you have, there are far better opportunities in the civilian world. Not all the military focus on small arms. Get a high-paying job and spend it on guns. If you do decide to enlist, seek the combat arms specialties in the Army or the USMC and see if you can get into a weapons unit.

TC

22-rimfire
July 26, 2007, 10:46 AM
The military is composed of all kinds of people, not just people who tote guns day in and day out. I'm told it is fairly difficult to get into the coast guard. Nothing wrong with building bridges.

If I were young and unemployed, I would certainly look at the military option. I would join regular military and do your stint. The experience will be invaluable for the rest of your life. It is not just a money thing.

Best deals are to get into the officers training programs and speciality type careers in the military. My nephew is now in the Navy and doing quite well financially and he is pretty much assured of a job making at least 80K a year when he gets out. He's hoping to get into med school on the military tab and I would not be surprised he will turn into a "lifer". Don't ever think the military is filled with a bunch of society's misfits. If I had a choice, I'd choose either the Navy or Air Force.

As others have said, I think you will be disappointed if "shooting guns" is your reason for joining the military.

trueblue1776
July 26, 2007, 10:48 AM
It is a personality thing. If you can take a lot of abuse and still smile about things, than you will probably be fine with it. Be prepared to do more paperwork than you would need to do in law school.

I just got out after 7 years, the bureaucracy and political correctness finally got the best of me, I succumbed to my frustration. I enlisted in the reserves upon getting my DD214, same BS just in more manageable doses. Plus I get tuition 80% paid for by the reserves, and enough money to keep me in scotch for the month :rolleyes: not enough for a truck payment.

exar
July 26, 2007, 10:50 AM
I went through the same thing as you for a little after high school. I even still considered it after I got my Assoc. After talking to many friends who enlisted(Army, Air Force, Marines, Navy) the general consensus was that the military gives you something enriching but at the same time it takes away some of your life as well. I decided not to enlist and found a good job and never looked back.

trueblue1776
July 26, 2007, 10:52 AM
I heard from a Marine that the best service to enter is the Air Force. Go figure.

yup, those guys are generally less pissed off then the rest of us.

marksman13
July 26, 2007, 11:13 AM
If your sole reason for joining the military is trigger time, do yourself and the rest of us a favor and find a civilian job. You won't enjoy it. You won't get the amount of trigger time you want. Your few times at the range will be so controlled and regulated that it will be much more of a chore than a joy, and if you have no motivation other than trigger time you will not make it through basic training.

If, however, you want to better yourself by gaining confidence, leadership abilities, patience, real world job experience, and a free education, and you are willing to put in some long hard hours to reach those goals then the military may be just what the doctor ordered. Basic training is designed to weed out the guys who like plaing with guns, and camping, and the ones who see themselves as Rambo in their dreams. You have to want to be a soldier on a deeper level. It is a calling and it is a very select few who are willing to make the sacrifices that must be made. Sure there are a few pieces of crap that slip through, but the majority of military personel honestly love what they do.

You'll know if it's right for you as soon as your feet touch the ground in some basic training facility like Fort Benning, Paris Island, or Fort Sill. Of course, by then it's almost too late. Good luck with whatever you decide. Do some soul searching and make sure the military life is the life for you.

silverlance
July 26, 2007, 11:16 AM
how abou tthe navy? two girls i know just came back and they had a pretty swell time right up to february 07.

Kali Endgame
July 26, 2007, 11:22 AM
IMHO, if you are looking for adventure-be a ground pounder in the Army or Marines. If you are looking for a skillset/job/experience/etc, then join the USAF. I was a 1371 and we got a lot of range time, not only with the guns, but also explosives. It is kind of anticlimatic to set off a 20# satchel charge and not see much more than a puff of dirt, when in the movies a grenade will take out a whole city block. A tripple-shot is almost a spiritual experience. The fiscal year end shoots were always the best.

Since you are unemployed(and have nothing better to do?), I'd say go for it. But four years is along time in anyone's book.

Good luck in whatever decision you make.

SlamFire1
July 26, 2007, 11:28 AM
I heard from a Marine that the best service to enter is the Air Force. Go figure

I have been to a number of military bases and can state, in my opinion, that the Air Force facilities are the newest and the best. And that the Air Force treats its people better than any other service.

I believe that this is due to the fact that the Air Force is unique among the services in that their Officer’s are the ones who go out and do the fighting. If the system is wrong, if the ground crew are unmotivated, if parts and supplies are not there, it is an Officer’s life that is on the line, not the life of some powerless ground pounder.

I believe this creates an organization that is highly interested in a happy workforce.

Different organizations have different attitudes. If you join the Marines expect to join a kick a$$ organization. Marines are first and foremost infantry. A Marine expects to be in the mud, expects to be unsupported, is happy to eat cold meals, understands he is going to be using worn out Army equipment. And despite this, they love it, because they believe that the Marines are going to team together and wade up to their knees in enemy blood.

If you like your creature comforts, stay away from the Marines.

The Army has a “four square meals” a day attitude. Great people, great managers, but would not make great Rugby players. Not into “good pain.”

The Navy used to the High Tech service, before Airplanes. Ships are highly complex mechanisms, some real high tech jobs there too. Plus, you have showers, hot food, and laundry.

sojournerhome
July 26, 2007, 11:32 AM
After high school I took a semester of college. I was bored. Didn't know what I wanted to be and was not about to take out a huge college loan to find out. I did not want to stay in the small town I was in. So, I decided to join the military.
I skipped the marines. I talked to a few friends that had been there and decided I wanted more of a skill than grunt when I got out. Same with army.
I looked at the navy the 4 recruiters talked me into taking the ASVAB? test. I got like a 96 on it. They were like wolves droolling outside of a hen cage. Their language was all gutter talk and atrocious. I guess they thought it would impress me. It was like they were circling me and pushing me to nuclear technician on a sub. They pushed so hard they pushed me right out the door.

Then I checked out the Air Force office. There was one recruiter looked very professional. Soft spoken, very organized. Had a little old lady for a part time secretary. And he recruited more people a month than the 4 navy guys combined. I was so impressed I signed up.

I had a great four years of training and some part time college. I got out with the GI Bill and about 45 hours already under my belt. I was able to work night shift as a medical technician and loved the job. I worked pediatric, med/surg, ICU, and ER. It was great experience that I can use for a lifetime. Now, When I knew what direction I wanted to go in it became a little confining. But, I got skills, direction, and college money, and my better half all out of it;)

I would join all over again.

If you decided to join. Look at the jobs they offer and think how it will translate into the civilian world.

MOST IMPORTANT: DO NOT LET THEM TALK YOU INTO SIGNING AND GIVING YOU A JOB AT BASIC TRAINING. THEN YOU GET STUCK WITH ANYTHING.

ONLY SIGN UP IF YOU GET YOUR GUARANTEED JOB IN WRITING!!!

Also, you can take the test more than once. Do that, take your time, get the highest score you can.

Ask about sign up bonuses. Ask about rank and college credits. Ask about jobs that give you rank earlier because of them being specialties.

That is all I can think bout now.

phaed
July 26, 2007, 11:32 AM
I love guns, want to own as many as i can and shoot as many as I can. However Im unemployed and everyone in my family is telling to join the naval reserves or the coast gaurd as they think

two associate degrees and a titanium plate will keep you in a desk job on dry land.
and they say that ill get to shoot alot of small arms and machine guns in either of them.

can you help me out with this? Iit is tempting but im leary after seeing so many army construction jobs that are nothing but tricks to get more general infantry over to iraq.

don't take this the wrong way, but if you want to sit behind a desk and not be deployed, we don't want you.

also, if you think that you'll shoot a lot by joining the navy or coast guard, you really don't understand what you might be getting into.

nothing personal, just reality.

trueblue1776
July 26, 2007, 11:38 AM
also, if you think that you'll shoot a lot by joining the navy or coast guard...

Not quite 100% correct, I carried at least a sidearm for 4 of my 7 years in the CG. But small arms range time was rarely more than 3 times a year. I did get to shoot a 25mm chain gun off the coast of Colombia though, that was cool. (BOM_BOM_BOM_BOM_BOM_BOM_BOM, that sound is unreal)

Hypnogator
July 26, 2007, 11:42 AM
two associate degrees and a titanium plate will keep you in a desk job on dry land.
and they say that ill get to shoot alot of small arms and machine guns in either of them.

Two associate degrees won't get you jack squat. If they need cannon fodder, you can be a PhD grunt.

The titanium plate (assuming it's replacing or shoring up something in your body) will probably make you ineligible.

You'll shoot some in basic. That'll be it, unless you're in an MOS that requires you to carry and qualify with a weapon. Won't make a damn bit of difference how well you shoot, either. You can qualify expert every time, but flunk one PT test and you'll be out on your a$$.

I didn't make friends and influence people by making the observation that if it all dropped into the pot, I'd rather be in a foxhole with someone who knew how to shoot, than knew how to run. :evil::evil::evil:

Just some observations from an old smelly retired Army CW4.

kermit315
July 26, 2007, 11:44 AM
The Navy used to the High Tech service, before Airplanes.

we still are. Not only do we have nuclear reactors onboard carriers and subs, we have advanced avionics onboard aircraft and the related equipment shipboard. pretty tech heavy.

Floppy_D
July 26, 2007, 11:47 AM
that's bad gouge. in my 3 years on the ship, as a firecontrolman who shared the armory with the gunner's mates, we shot plenty. the problem is, if you WANT to spend a lot of trigger time, you'll find yourself volunteered for all kinds of things. gun qual days underway will let you shoot a lot (m14, m16, 9mm, m60, 50cal, 25mm, Mk19, Mk 44, and then the 5" gun, CIWS and Tomahawks). But that can mean you will end up on a boarding party, which will keep you BUSY on deployment.

If you go surface Navy, go gunner's mate and join the Boarding Team on a DDG. That'll get you plenty of time around guns, and relatively out of harms way.

MudPuppy
July 26, 2007, 12:16 PM
I was infantry, stationed over on the DMZ for a good bit (in the '80s). My trigger time took a serious decline during my time in service. But I grew up in Texas. :D

As others have said, don't do it for the shootin'.

Smokehouse
July 26, 2007, 12:29 PM
join the Air Force!

Kilgor
July 26, 2007, 12:35 PM
I heard from a Marine that the best service to enter is the Air Force. Go figure.

Army and Army Guard guys have told me the same thing.

CountGlockula
July 26, 2007, 12:45 PM
The only way to know, is to try it yourself.

You'll be hearing a lot of opinions, do what's best for YOU!

Titan6
July 26, 2007, 01:19 PM
If you want to join the military I don't suggest the Air Force. I don't know what people mean by it is "better". However I would suggest that you look at all the services and decide what kind of service would fit you best. Just because I know the Army is the best for me does not mean it is the best for everyone.

While I don't believe in the draft I think everyone who is eligible should serve at least once in their life.

Colt
July 26, 2007, 02:12 PM
Depending on your job, your experience in the Air Force can be very close to a civilian life. Especially if you have a medical or administrative job.

I worked the flightline, and I STILL had a very cushy life. Most times it was get to work at 8 am, launch, recover, fuel and fix planes until 5, then home for dinner. I lived offbase 20 miles away in a house I owned. Wife and kids visited the base to see me at lunch sometimes, we shopped on base, saw the pediatrician and our regular doctors on base, went bowling on base, saw movies on base....

That's how it was 95% of the time. But when part of our squadron was sent out on TDY, or when there was a training excercise, you sometimes worked 12-hour shifts with no days off for up to a month at a time. On the other hand, when everyone was on base, and there weren't many broken planes, you might come in to work on your Friday and be sent home right after roll call. The pay never changes, regardless of the hours you work.

igpoobah
July 26, 2007, 02:20 PM
Get a high-paying job and spend it on guns.

Dang, why didn't I think of that? :D

RobTzu
July 26, 2007, 02:24 PM
I am in Army Reserve, have been for 9 years now. I was deployed to Kuwait for about a year. Air Force has far and away the better facilities than we ever could wish for. I got some buddies that served at Whiteman a few hours from me and it is a 9-5 job.

If you want trigger time go infantry, but I would suggest getting a job skill instead and shooting on your time. Army shooting is no fun to me. I dread their ranges, and enjoy going to private range on my time even if it is my dime.

Tully M. Pick
July 26, 2007, 02:32 PM
Here's a vote for the Air Force from a former Marine.

I was stationed on an Air Force base in Europe for a year. Here are some of the differences:

In the Air Force you'll be better treated:

The Air Force people we worked with may have been undisciplined by USMC standards, but they did their job, and did their job as well as we did our job. We had a Lieutenant order a PFC to salute a wall because he didn't feel he was being respected enough, and the kid stood there for a half hour saluting the wall until I countermanded the LT's order and sent the kid back to Tent City. Funny, huh? The Air Force treated their people with more respect.

In the Air Force you'll have better housing:

I lived in a tent for a year. I was lucky it was an Air Force tent that they kindly contracted someone to pour a concrete slab for, otherwise I would have been living in a shelter half in a mud puddle. The Air Force personnel lived in hotel rooms. Let me repeat that. Marines = tents, Air Force = hotels. For a year.

In the Air Force you'll receive more money:

My unit received $3.50 a month per diem. I realize per diem stands for "per day", so we were probably actually receiving about 11.3 cents per day. The Air Force personnel received in excess of $700 per month. Of course, I believe some of them had to pay for their hotels and such out of that money.

In the Air Force you'll have more access to school and other resources.

That being said, I still wouldn't trade my time in the Marines for anything.

Weird, huh?

jkingrph
July 26, 2007, 02:42 PM
Best deals are to get into the officers training programs and speciality type careers in the military

Just remember the OTS program have a college degree as a prerequisite.

Slater
July 26, 2007, 02:43 PM
I'm retired USAF. Regarding the facilities issue, if an Air Force Base DOESN'T look presentable somebody's probably going to be in trouble.

Colt
July 26, 2007, 02:47 PM
We had a Lieutenant order a PFC to salute a wall because he didn't feel he was being respected enough, and the kid stood there for a half hour saluting the wall until I countermanded the LT's order and sent the kid back to Tent City. Funny, huh? The Air Force treated their people with more respect.

The USMC-USAF relationship has always baffled me. I remember watching a Marine light colonel loading a bunch of his men into the troop compartment of a C5. He yelled at them from the time they got off the bus until they were buckled into their seats. He was ALL over them, cursing them out like dogs that had just pissed on the carpet. Moving them along, telling them to "Get it done TODAY!" He then sauntered back down the stairs, leaned against the stair truck, and proceeded to light a cigarette.

Smoking within 100 feet of an aircraft is against regulations. The plane's crew chief told me to go tell the colonel he had to put out his cigarette. I was an E3 at the time. After making my peace with God, I went over to the colonel and stood at attention, but didn't salute. (no saluting of officers less than O-6 on the flightline) I told him "Sir, USAF regulations prohibit smoking within 100 feet of an aircraft."

He looked at me, smiled, put out his cigarette and put it in his pocket. He walked back with me to the crew chief, and complimented him on the condition of the aircraft. Then proceeded to shoot the bull with us until take off.

Night and day difference between how he treated us and how he treated his own men. There was good reason for both.

Ohio Rifleman
July 26, 2007, 02:51 PM
Not meaning to hijack the thread, but, I'm vaguely considering military service. However, back in February, I severely broke my leg, requiring surgery to repair. There are now 2 steel plates and 16 screws in my right leg holding the bones together. It's healed over now, but those plates and screws are still there. If they were taken out, I'd be worthless for a looooong time until the voids filled back up with bone.

jklinstein
July 26, 2007, 03:01 PM
Bezoar,

If your MOS puts you in a desk job, you will not be handling weapons after basic training.

NOT WORTH IT.

trueblue1776
July 26, 2007, 03:01 PM
Best deals are to get into the officers training programs and speciality type careers in the military

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah, so sez the good little officer :neener:

I hated being a puppet with someones hand up my @##, I can only imagine how an Ens. or a 1st Lt feels. It is dog eat dog for those poor bastards, especially academy grads, OCS grads have it a tiny bit better.

Kali Endgame
July 26, 2007, 03:04 PM
OR,
I have a friend that had serious medical issues as a child. Which included scar tissue removal from his lungs. He recieved a couple of medical waivers, went active duty USAF, is now in the USANG and trying to get a commision. Cruise down to the recruiter and ask if your condition will make you ineligible. Different branches have different standards.

ArfinGreebly
July 26, 2007, 03:31 PM
If you're contemplating joining the military as a "solution" to a perceived problem, then just don't.

If you're thinking of joining because you feel a sense of duty, that's fine.

If you're thinking of joining because you want to carry on a family tradition (a different kind of duty), that's fine.

If you're thinking of joining because you just love all things military, and you know what life there will be like, then that too is fine.

If joining is a "solution" then no, don't do it.

If the problem is employment, then solve that directly, not through the "well, the military IS a job" kind of thinking.

The military is NOT a job. It is a commitment, a trust, to some it's a calling, but it's NOT a job.

You can quit a job if you discover you've made a horrible mistake.

You might like the military. Hell, you might love the military. Only, make sure you do it for its own sake.

Don't do it to solve something else.

ok41
July 26, 2007, 03:31 PM
The different branches of military service all have different incentives to offer. If you're young, healthy, intelligent and looking for something other than a dead end job. then check it out. An eligible candidate willl become a hooker, selling their little butt to Uncle Sam for whatever he desires (within the confines of your enlistment agreement). Uncle Sam don't want you for life, just a short while and then get the hell out. Career soldiers (like me) are an expensive liability. In return for 'offering your services', it will amaze you what carrots are tied to the end of the string. If you've got a good job future, and an education, or a piss poor attitude, military service ain't for you. But...if $oo,ooo.oo bonuses, training of choice, wads of college money, and the opportunity to travel to foreign lands, meet strange different types of people and kill them appeals to you, tell your recruiter that I sent you!

sdra2007
July 26, 2007, 03:42 PM
I'm active duty Air Force and I haven't shot or even touched a service weapon in 3 years. The only shooting I do is when I hit up my local range every week. :)

I agree, being in the AF will probably get you treated better than some of the other services. Although, in my opinion, the Navy facilities are better. Atleast around here. They send a lot of our guys to the Naval hospital because they can do a lot more there than they can at the Air Force hospital. But that may just be here in VA.

AntiqueCollector
July 26, 2007, 05:24 PM
Bezoar, really think about what you're doing. You might end up shooting a lot, in Iraq...you may find you hate it, and there's no way out until your contract is fulfilled. My attitudes towards the government and to being ordered around, and towards being around other people, would make joining any part of the military a very bad idea for me. I respect those who do, but it's just not for me. And you better decide carefully if it's for you, shooting guns is a bad reason to join, really think carefully about if you would like it.

What state are you in? Does your state have a state guard? State guard, as opposed to the national guard, is more of a state militia than the national guard, might be your best option if you are set on trying out being in a military...would keep you closer to home, more than likely, than the federal military would.

If all you want is to shoot big guns/machine guns/artillery/etc., go out and get a civilian job and get plenty of money. Pick your state correctly and you could get almost any weapon you want, if you can afford it, and follow all the NFA rules. Will be expensive but you could do it. Don't join the military just to shoot this stuff.

Essex County
July 26, 2007, 05:36 PM
I was always baffled by inter service rivalry. I went Air Force, back in '66, because of a fascination with aircraft going back to when I was a toddler. Anyone I knew was treated with respect and effort was rewarded with responsibility. With few exceptions, troops had very positive attitudes. Not a bad trait to take back to civillian life. Before making any choice. Talk to as many G.I.'s as you can........Good Luck to You. Essex

Dannavyret
July 26, 2007, 05:42 PM
I say go Navy and pursue a technical field. You don't have to do a 20 year but at the minimum to asure a good post-service job, do 6 to 8 and get some college.

Dannavyret
July 26, 2007, 05:43 PM
Bezoar, really think about what you're doing. You might end up shooting a lot, in Iraq.

He could also end up shooting alot right here in America if the Government doesn't stop messing around with these Islamic freaks.

Rey B
July 26, 2007, 06:00 PM
Hey Floppy D what Tin Can did you do time on? My last is now a reef. The former USS John Young DD-973. FC1 (ret). Oh and as for the OP question lots of range time and a desk job are usually mutually exclusive terms, or were when I was in the Navy.:neener:

eltorrente
July 26, 2007, 06:03 PM
I have a cousin and a nephew in the Airforce. Neither one of them likes it much. They have basically 9-5 jobs and are basically stuck at a base and don't get very much "adventure".

I was in the Navy on submarines and it was nothing but adventure. I didn't join to learn a trade that I'd do for the rest of my life (I'm a computer animator for video games now). I went subs because I wanted to go on Top Secret missions, do something interesting, and see the world - which I did. Glad I went in, glad I got out - it was a great experience.

Now, if I could do it all over again, I'd probably go Coast Guard if I didn't go subs. The reason I'd want to go Coast Guard is because I would want to be stationed on a rescue vessel of some sort. The Coast Guard, first of all, gets stationed in a coastal town somewhere (obviously)- on the ocean or one of the great lakes. Every day they are out there saving people and actually using all of their skills.

Myself and some friends overturned our catamaran once in big swells in Lake Michigan. It was very cold and we couldn't right the boat, and didn't know what we were going to do so far out from shore. All of a sudden, a big CG cutter pulled up and tossed a line down to us. We tied it to the opposite side of the boat, then they backed up and pulled our boat upright and "saved" us. They then went on their way, looking for more people in trouble. My Dad was sailing alone one day and got saved by that same cutter. :)

I think the CG is the branch that gets the least respect, for whatever reason, yet they are absolutely as important as any other branch. Maybe you'll be chasing drug runners in Florida or something fun like that. Maybe a rescue swimmer. Maybe a radar operator on an aircraft. The better you do on the ASVAB, the more choices you have. When you get off work, you are in a nice coastal city and not in some desert somewhere getting shelled, or stuck on some AF base in Wyoming or somewhere like that in the middle of nowhere.

I consider it one of the more "honorable" professions: Every single day they are saving people.

There's plenty of guns in the Coast Guard, also.

Prince Yamato
July 26, 2007, 06:03 PM
Bezoar,

no offense, but joining the army just to shoot guns is possibly the worst idea I have ever heard. I have no idea what your job skill-set is, but guns don't cost that much. Have you considered working for a gun store? That might be a good idea. Then you get to handle all sorts of guns.

The armed forces are one of those occupations where you basically have to conform to a set lifestyle. Are you willing to get maimed or killed? Because that's what the armed forces entails.

If your heart's not into it, don't join. If you don't want to live the lifestyle, don't join. Don't Romanticize anything. Think about crappy situations... you're stuck in the middle of Iraq in the sweltering heat, you're dehydrated, you haven't showered in a week, you're currently pinned down under enemy fire, and on top of that, you really need to take a crap. Sound pleasant? To some that probably sounds like a dream come true. Those would probably be the people who should join the armed forces.

"I wanna shoot more guns" is not a reason to join the armed forces.

tkendrick
July 26, 2007, 06:18 PM
A high school buddy and I both enlisted in the Spring of '73. We both retired in '94. I went Army, he went Coast Guard. All totalled, I spent less than 24 month's working "Live" missions (Nam, Grenada, Panama).
I volunteered for Desert Storm, and was told I was "too valuable in your present assignment". (I was the housing NCO at Huachuca, working these grueling 1 hour days, Go figure!).
My buddy in the Coast Guard was assigned to a cutter. He spent most of his career in smuggling intervention. Got a heckofa lot more trigger time, with live missions to boot, in an average year than I did during my entire career.
To add insult to injury, he spent most of his time working in the Carib.
I tried to talk my boys into going CG, but I think stupid must be hereditary:-)

Bezoar
July 26, 2007, 06:28 PM
some good comments here. Just the follwoing:

my titanium plate joined a 2 inch gap where the bone was turned to cornmush when a tree fell on me. Sure its all healed up years ago if i break that plate or a screw, im on the cripple list for good. And my surgeon also gave me great advice: if anyone but her tries to dink with the plate orscrews, i should feel free to stick a screwdriver in their eye socket to escape.

im not big on army or anything, im just enemployed and everyone is trying to tell me that jobs are everywhere for anyone with a degree. my degrees are in drafting and design, architecture and construction. I can even get a job pushing a broom at a work site or a job that lets me swab urinals.

and I live in michigan. no use for a drafting or construction related degree. and thats were all my mental processes do the best at.

PH/CIB
July 26, 2007, 06:29 PM
Is the Military worth it? That is kind of like saying is our Country and Way of Life Worth it? I have nothing but Gratitute and Respect for the Veterans who have Served.

I believe we should keep our All Volunteer Service and Pay Scale for Soldiers who re enlist or make it a Career. However I also believe EVERYONE should have to Serve our Country for at least a year or two. We have way too many FREERIDERS in this Country.

You will probably not see too much Trigger Time outside of Boot Camp unless you go Combat Arms, however even as a REMF, Remington Raider you can be killed by a mortar round or sniper or I.E.D.. But you will have hot chow, showers, flush toilets and not sleep in the mud.

There were some Officers and Sergeants and Enlisted Men in Viet Nam I would have followed anywhere and back. They realized we had to accomplish a mission but they tried to do it with minimal loss of life. It was a tragedy to die due to stupidity you wanted to kill and wound as many of the enemy as you could before they finally got you.

There were also a few Officers and Sergeants and Enlisted Men who were stupid or incompetent or egotistical or with agendas that could get you wounded or killed.

In Jungle School they told us to look at the man to your right and the man to your left, then they said only one of you is going to come home not wounded or killed. When Troopers could not make the hump, we left them sitting alone in the Jungle saying that Charlie would be along in a little bit to help them carry their rucksack, that worked in 95% of the cases, the ones who did not catch up we went back and helped carry their rucksacks or had a Medivac/Dustoff helicopter helo them out.

This is not a job where you can refuse an order or tell your employer to shove it, if you do you will be court martialed and in prison.

Is it Worth it? Hell, Yes it is!

doubleg
July 26, 2007, 06:30 PM
I have been contemplating joining the military also, most likely the Marines. I never had the grades for the Air Force. Mostly the reason I wanna join is to do something with my life, because at the moment my life is mind numbingly boring. I have a sense of commitment to my country. Hell I love it enough to die for it. My family has a tradition of joining the millitary ( 6 of my uncles served in vietnam, 1 Navy 1 Marines and 4 Army.) All of them lived through it with out getting wounded to, well if you don't count mental problems :neener:. But as of this moment I am un decieded.

eltorrente
July 26, 2007, 06:30 PM
A high school buddy and I both enlisted in the Spring of '73. We both retired in '94. I went Army, he went Coast Guard. All totalled, I spent less than 24 month's working "Live" missions (Nam, Grenada, Panama).
I volunteered for Desert Storm, and was told I was "too valuable in your present assignment". (I was the housing NCO at Huachuca, working these grueling 1 hour days, Go figure!).
My buddy in the Coast Guard was assigned to a cutter. He spent most of his career in smuggling intervention. Got a heckofa lot more trigger time, with live missions to boot, in an average year than I did during my entire career.
To add insult to injury, he spent most of his time working in the Carib.
I tried to talk my boys into going CG, but I think stupid must be hereditary:-)

That scenario is repeated time, and time again. :) I think you came to the same realization that I did concerning the CG.

Unfortunately, most people don't even consider the CG even for a second, because it isn't as "cool" to tell your friends that you are going to the CG as compared to the Marines or Army (for whatever reason).

I was watching a show on Discovery HD about the CG in Florida. I was totally impressed and it confirmed what I had always thought about them. One morning, as the cameraman rode along, they chased down a high speed boat that wouldn't stop when ordered, and they opened fire on his engine to make him stop. They then boarded with weaps drawn and found he was smuggling a family. It was just a typical day at work for them. They are saving people, stopping smugglers, drug runners, etc. They go home to nice living conditions, and are actually using all the skills they have been trained for every single day.

Dark_Harvest
July 26, 2007, 11:20 PM
Bezoar -


GET OUT OF MICHIGAN!!!!! that will fix your problem quickly!!! i left when an associate & a bachelors degree(s), and YEARS of experience couldn't get me a (literally) $7/hour crap job.

that state is shot. leave, and be amazed at what is available elsewhere.


good luck!

CDignition
July 26, 2007, 11:23 PM
I overheard a Army Recruiter talking today at a store, he was saying they are offering $20K if you go to boot before end of Aug(something like that).

stevelyn
July 26, 2007, 11:47 PM
Another ex-Army vote here for the Air Force/Air Guard.

Better living conditions.
Better overall support and support facilities.
Better and professional treatment from supervisors and command structure.
Better opportunities for advancement.
Better opportunities AND encouragement for education.
Better and more job specialty opportunites.
Faster rotations in and out of combat zones.

Drusagas
July 27, 2007, 12:29 AM
Yup, pretty much what they all said. I believe you have to do it for a reason and not, like they have said, a solution.

I have been married for 1 yr and 1 1/2 weeks, have a decent job (retail - nothing big), and am on scholarship to Baylor Univ. about to enter my Junior year of college, double majoring in Great Texts and English.

Yet, in less than two weeks I will ship out to Ft. Leonard Wood for Basic.
Joining the military has always been in my mind but most always on the back burner. I had the grades and all what-not to go to a good college and get a degree but, as I have matured and started to really get to know myself, found that this isn't really all that I have wanted, while the military, has always appealed. I scored a 98 on the ASVAB and will be in the Army Reserves so that I can finish my bachelor's degrees when I come back from basic, but I will most likely go active once that happens. And the reason is this, ever since enlisting, I felt as if my life had purpose now. I suppose it may be odd but that is what it feels like. Deploy me? Fine with me. It would give me a sense of having done something with my life and for my country.Too many people sit around and complain about liberals and all the problems with our country yet do nothing to try and change it. I have some liberal friends and relatives and what I am hoping is to show by example what it is to be truly American (not saying that you have to join the Armed Forces to be American) and hope that by doing so I can change some minds.

That is my reason, don't know if it's worth much to you, but take it for whatever it's worth, just don't join if you do it out of a whim or as a solution.

$0.02 in change

Navy joe
July 27, 2007, 12:53 AM
If you're contemplating joining the military as a "solution" to a perceived problem, then just don't.

If you're thinking of joining because you feel a sense of duty, that's fine.

If you're thinking of joining because you want to carry on a family tradition (a different kind of duty), that's fine.

If you're thinking of joining because you just love all things military, and you know what life there will be like, then that too is fine.

If joining is a "solution" then no, don't do it.

If the problem is employment, then solve that directly, not through the "well, the military IS a job" kind of thinking.

The military is NOT a job. It is a commitment, a trust, to some it's a calling, but it's NOT a job.

You can quit a job if you discover you've made a horrible mistake.

You might like the military. Hell, you might love the military. Only, make sure you do it for its own sake.

Don't do it to solve something else.



That bears repeating. If you are drafting and construction go Seabee. I think you can join to have a career, I've had a good one. Just remember, nowhere in that oath does it say " a great career with good pay and benefits" That is not what it is about. I shoot guns in my off time, I joined to be proud of myself and serve my country. It worked.

Hanzerik
July 27, 2007, 01:52 AM
Quote:
I heard from a Marine that the best service to enter is the Air Force. Go figure.
Army and Army Guard guys have told me the same thing.



Hehe, I'm Air Force. Back in 1999 when I was deployed to Tirana Albania for Operation Shining Hope/TF Hawk, we had Army Air Crew members and a Chaplin asking us how to go Green to Blue :-)

threefeathers
July 27, 2007, 02:20 AM
It is true, go in the Army this month and get an additional 20 G's. When yu are in your unit volunteer for the marksmanship teams. I did it for 24 years and made the All Army matches 9 times.

AlaskaErik
July 27, 2007, 04:07 AM
I did six years active duty Marine Corps. Those six years provided me with a great foundation to build on. After that, I went with the Guard. I got to live where I wanted to and was still able to serve. The last 17 years of my career were spent as a C-130 loadmaster. Other posters have it right. When I was in the Marines, field time was spent in a tent. As aircrew in the Guard, I spent many nights in beachfront resorts and hotels and I got to travel all over the world. When I was in Afghanistan we had the best quarters the Air Force had and we did our time there in 65 day rotations. Compare that to an Army tour of 12 months extended to 15 months and living in a B hut.

The Coast Guard is also a great way to serve. In Alaska they have lots of respect because we get to see them in action all the time.

But the military is more than just a job. It's a commitment and a way of life. Join for the right reasons.

TimboKhan
July 27, 2007, 04:21 AM
Here is the thing: If your joining just to shoot, and yet want a desk job, your going to be sorely disappointed. I am not equating joining the military to a religious experience, but you do need to have something driving you to join other than unemployment and a desire to shoot machineguns. You need to have realistic expectations. I love the Marines, and I loved the time I spent as an active duty Marine. If I could go back and do it again, I would do so in less than a heartbeat. Because of that love, let me give you some some things you need to think about and a little advice. Maybe these will help you develop some realistic expectations as to what you will get out of service.

1. Willingness to work as a part of a team. If you can't work efficiently in a team environment, with people you may or may not personally like, your going to be miserable and everyone around you is going to be miserable.

2. Willingness to accept constant authority. I, like a lot of people, do not like being told what to do. In the military, you get told what to do from the moment you enlist until the moment you leave. I was able to adapt to it, but to be perfectly blunt, a lot of people can't. Again, if you can't, your going to be miserable.

3. An understanding that your quality of life is not particularly important to the overall mission. It's real simple. You may be extremely uncomfortable, you may get stuck on a base in a city or country you hate with all your soul, or you may be away from home for months at a time. You can either adapt to the situation and make the best of it, or you can whine and be miserable.

4. You must understand that the military-industrial complex, as a whole, is not concerned with your opinion on how things should be run. It's real simple: If your such a genius, why are you a PFC? If you have a by-god good idea, by all means share it. If not, keep your trap shut and your eyes and ears open.


5. Attitude is everything. This sounds like a bumper sticker, but it is the single most important piece of advice that I can share with you. If you cannot maintain a positive attitude, under any condition or situation, your screwed. It really is that simple. You absolutely have to be able to take on a challenge and keep a positive attitude, whether that challenge be rifle quals, guard duty, house to house combat or simply doing something that sucks. Attitude is perception, and if you percieve that everything sucks, everything will suck, and that becomes a self-perpetuating cycle of suckiness. No one wants that.

6. Have a sense of adventure I have been, literally, to the most horrible places on earth, and even though they were horrible, I managed to enjoy the adventure of it, if nothing else. Somalia is a bad, bad place and I personally can't imagine much that would be worse. Still, I can say that I have walked the streets of Mogadishu, and I can look back at all the things that I saw and did there and know that not a whole lot of people can say that they have had those experiences.

7. ALong with attitude and a sense of adventure, have an open mind. I had an extremely fun time in the Marine Corps because I had an open mind to doing stuff and a good attitude. I was a machinegunner by MOS, but after I got shot in Desert Storm, I ended up on light duty for about 9 months. Rather than sit around, I got placed with the admin unit in our battalion. I literally met everyone in the battalion, and I got to do a lot of cool stuff simply by asking. For example, I would walk down to the Communications shed on an errand, and I would just ask "Hey, how do you do this or that". Because I had that attitude where ever I went, I built a reputation as a guy that was interested in learning new things. As a result, I got a lot of really cool training and was always on the list of potential candidates when slots in different schools opened up. Maybe I wasn't super-interested in what the guys in the NBC shed were doing that day, but I still asked and not only would I learn something potentially useful, I built good relationships. I am not proud of it, but I got in trouble in the latter part of my time in the Marines for disobeying a direct order. It wasn't a big order I disobeyed, and I didn't even really do it on purpose, but it was still a serious offense. My reputation was the only thing that kept me from getting in hot water. Guys went to bat for me, and in the end all I got was a stern talking to and confinement to quarters for a weekend. An open mind and a good attitude are key to success in the military, and in life.

U.S.SFC_RET
July 27, 2007, 05:48 AM
I went in joining the army and met up with a guy and asked him what he was going in for and he told me " driving a tank". Trust me in your case trigger time is a luxury now and a hobby. You will forget all about trigger time in the military. You will like "your trigger time alright" but if its trigger time you want then stay out of the military. I went in the army to learn a trade and to retire, the trigger time was icing on the cake

Phantom Warrior
July 27, 2007, 05:56 AM
TimboKhan gave you a lot of good advice. I strongly recommend rereading his post. A lot of good information has been put out, so I'll just chip in my few cents.


Check with a recruiter about your medical condition first. You may be able to get a waiver, depending on your branch, but that plate may prevent you from enlisting. Also, don't think your associates degrees mean ANYTHING. I have two bachelors degrees and I drive a HMMWV. That was my choice, but they didn't roll out the red carpet or anything because I had a degree. The only time a degree matters is if you are trying to become an officer (bachelor's degree required). The might bump you up a pay grade, depending on what branch you join. What job you are eligible for depends solely on your ASVAB scores though.

Don't join the military to shoot. If you do get a shooting job, you will be given a certain amount of ammunition to accomplish a certain mission (qualify, go through a MOUT lane, do a familiarization fire) and then you are DONE. You might get lucky if there is extra ammunition lying around, but you will never just go out w/ a bunch of ammo to shoot for fun. If you aren't at a range, your weapon will be locked up in the arms room. You won't be able to go get it to fondle it or play with it. As others have said, if you get a desk job, you will rarely even get a chance to go to a range.

MAKE YOUR PEACE WITH DEPLOYING! Don't join the military (esp the Army or the Marines) if you don't want to go to Iraq or Afghanistan or Kuwait. The Army and the Marines are bearing most of the weight of the deployments right now. But there are still plenty of support personnel from other branches over here. Joining the Navy might not put you out on a COP out in sector, but you might end up as an EWO on the FOB or working at the CASH in the IZ or doing customs in Kuwait. I know a guy that graduated from the Naval Academy, had a duty station lined up in Washington (state), and almost got sent to Afghanistan. Don't be one of those people that joins the military and then acts surprised when they are told they are deploying.


I'm going to repeat TimboKhan's second point, willingness to accept authority, as my closing thought. In the military you will do what you are told. You don't get to say, "I don't want to do that. I quit." I've stayed at work until 20:00 every night in garrison because no one will send us home. I've unloaded and reloaded our conex every day in Kuwait. In Iraq I (along w/ all the other guys that go off the FOB) get stuck with all the details because they don't want to disturb the TOC guys, who work 8 hours a day and don't go off the FOB.

The Army has been an interesting experience and has allowed me to save a lot of money. And I would always have wished I'd tried it if I hadn't signed up. But I've dealt with a LOT of stupid (mostly from field grades and senior NCOs) and a lot of suck during this deployment. Be prepared to take the good with the bad.


P.S. Sign up for three years. You still get the full G.I. Bill benefits and you will only lose $2000 or $3000 off your bonus. If you like the military you can always reenlist for longer. If you don't, three years goes by really quickly. DO NOT sign up for five or six years right away.

U.S.SFC_RET
July 27, 2007, 06:40 AM
I cannot even begin to count the days that I worked 24 hours straight through. I have worked in 16 degree below zero turning wrenches. I Melted brake lines on a truck in croatia with a propane heater that I talked a Major out of. Tips of my fingers turned black on the hungarian flight line from working in 15 degrees all day. Working in 125 degree heat. Laying in the mud fixing vehicles. In foxholes freezing the family jewels. In the back of 2 1/2 trucks being transported in zero degree weather in blackout drive at night. Pulling duty constantly, Guard duty, Charge of Quarters, Staff Duty. The Army never sleeps. Being told what to do constantly.
I understand electricity and setting up Tactical command Centers and trying to convince Officers not to overload circuits and to quit plugging into 110 AC while standing in water or you will get eletricuted. (Ft Lewis).
You sign the dotted line, you get that fat bonus and you just gave your life to Uncle Sam. He will use you and your life as he sees fit. Leadership being pumped out of ROTC is getting promoted so fast that a lot of them are not as seasoned as they should be and they are making decisions that effect your life. Some of those leaders are losersMost of those leaders are average and a percentage are great leaders. Leaders are Made but in the meantime they can get you killed because they put you into a position that you can't get out of that you have no choice or voice in it yourself. There is a lot of responsibility is signing those documents to enlist. People call it serving your country Sometimes won't feel like doing so. You wave Your rights away signing the dotted line. I refuse to let my two kids go into the Army. The Army thinks that Every Army Retiree Sings and propagates the Army. BULLSNOT! It isn't the difficult duty, It is the sorry, inept leadership in the Army.

unrealtrip
July 27, 2007, 09:32 AM
My 2 cents...

You have entirely the wrong reasons in mind for joining the armed forces if your goal is to get a desk job and avoid ever seeing combat. Assuming they let you in, you will never be happy.

The Deer Hunter
July 27, 2007, 09:56 AM
From what I hear the Navy's got the best chow.

sterling180
July 27, 2007, 10:16 AM
love guns, want to own as many as i can and shoot as many as I can. However Im unemployed and everyone in my family is telling to join the naval reserves or the coast gaurd as they think

It depends on what you want out of life,so firstly you must consider the fact that:Is this is the life for you?.Now,firstly you must decide what section of the US Armed Forces you would want to join,then onwards with what trade you are interested in and if it suits you.

There is no point of being a clerk if you hate office work,or if you hated languages,being an intelligence soilder, or an airborne soilder of the 101-if you are afraid to jump out of planes or are afraid of breaking your legs,during a routine jump and I wouldn't blame you too because it is tough,unpleasant at times and you will feel that you had signed your life away,for nothing.

This is where you need to research on the internet about the US Armed Forces and what interests you,as a person and find your nearest recruitment center and ask the advisor or more appropriately the NCO's and ordinary's,what vacancies are available in various trades.Then tell them your strengths and weaknesses,etc,etc,then they will roughly see what careers suit you and what they think,in their own opinion,you have a natural aptitude for.A highly-intelligent 'wizz-kid' type of private would be encouraged to join either the Engineering,ICT or Admin departments,whereas a person not considered to be intelligent,etc but likes sport and driving might be told that combat,driving might be the key to their future.

Never put yourself down whilst you are looking for work or if you successfully join one part of the US Armed Forces-because other people aren't you and they don't know you.Intelligent people from the ranks are actively encouraged to become officers,by placing them on university courses,studying for progression in a particular department.I've done it,it was bloody tough but well worth the effort and it made me happier a person.

So you have all of these options available to you,but the draw back is; that you are expected to fight and even die for your country in battle,to protect it's freedoms and interests.All Im going to say to you,is: go for it,get a skilled trade if you can and make something good of your life,instead of heading down the path of being a deadbeat/layabout or a loser,but it might not be for you liking,so then local government or state employment,might be a better option for you and you would get a good state pension out of it too.Local government as employees invest alot of time and effort into their staff,so you could get a similar deal as the military,in terms of progression,if you didn't fancy the idea of risking being killed or seriously injured in Iraq.Local government certainly invest a great deal into their employees in the UK and UNISON and TGW unions are always monitoring them,too.

By the way,the military is a world within itself and you would be suprised at how closely run the military facilities are compared with the civillian ones,except there is always an atmostphere of rank,discipline and respect.

sturmgewehr
July 27, 2007, 10:28 AM
Joining the Navy reserve to shoot small arms would be like joining the Peace Corps to fly F-18's. If you want to shoot machineguns and play with cool hardware, you're going to have to join either the Marines or the Army. In the Marines, no matter what your MOS is, you will learn to shoot and shoot well. The Marines have the philosophy that "every Marine is a rifleman".

But as previously noted, if you're joining just to play with weapons... you're going to hate your life. Remember, the military isn't a place to go for school money or to play with weapons... it's a deadly serious business especially during a time of war. Don't fool yourself thinking you can join any particular branch and not wind up getting deployed to the sandbox. If you can't live with that, then find a new hobby. :p

If you want to shoot weapons, make friends with people who have firearms.

leadcounsel
July 27, 2007, 10:40 AM
Loving guns has NOTHING to do with the military. I also love guns and am an officer in the Army.

I am very patriotic and believe in our cause in the Middle East.

I love my career in the Army and am honored to serve. It was a great decision for me. However, I've brought a lot to the table.

I caution people to seriously think about the decision. If you are going to join the Army and don't bring something to the table, like a good skill, you aren't going to be treated very well for the first couple of years. You will get yelled at a lot and treated very poorly (poor living conditions, high stress, poor food frequently, low pay, levels of danger ranging from low to very high, etc.). We definately need Joes, but it's probably the hardest most thankless job a person could ever have. I have the highest respect for Joe and you could count on feeling very accomplished if you do it.

And, honestly, your idea of having fun shooting guns is not the Army's idea. The weapon you are issued will be spotless all of the time. Count on spending hours cleaning it. The rifle range is not a particularly fun place to shoot. You only go when they tell you and it's highly regulated activity and not at all fun. First you must wear your body armor and helmet and other gear and only get to shoot when and what they tell you. And count on listening to range officers yell at you and others all day. You'll be mentally and physically exhausted from the Army range, trust me.

For me, I dred going to the range or "field operations." It's not like a fun day at the range or camping...

If you do join, take FULL advantage of the GI Bill and the bonus money and if you have college loan debt they will pay up to some $60,000 off.

There are many good reasons to join but shooting guns is not one of them.

Fred Fuller
July 27, 2007, 10:50 AM
There are lots of good reasons for joining the military. Wanting to get trigger time is not one of them.

Friend of mine, at that time the oldest active duty captain in the US Army, used to wear a T-shirt to PT that said, "If we could shoot, we wouldn't have to run." That's a clue... (also a clue as to why he was still a captain 8^).

lpl/nc

AF_INT1N0
July 27, 2007, 12:05 PM
ArfinGreebly
+100
AirForce at almost 10 in. (Time to make 10 or 20 decision)
I have been thinking alot about this myself.

First the plus side-
The Airforce has given me valuable carreer Skills(not just bowstaff skillz)
I now have a BA and no School loans to pay. (I will have my MBA before decision time and again with no school loans to pay off) not bad for a 28year old.

My first Assignment was to Ramstein AB Germany(Which subjected me to some of the best beer, food, and Girls on the Planet at the young age of 21)

I have seen exotic locals (some better than others)

The military takes care of their own, if you get sick, they'll pay for it. Same for your family.

Most of the people you meet are high energy, high motivation, intelligent people. (you meet idiots everywhere but most get drummed out of the service).

The AirForce will almost always be there to help you or your family if something unforseen happens(AirForce Aid).

Higher enlisted will look out for their guys. A shirt(First Sergeant) will jack someone up if they try to give you a raw deal. They will also step in front of a raging O-6 if you mess up. There is no other organization that will go as far to support their troops as the AirForce.

When you fall someone will be there to pick you up.

There are alot of vollunteer opportunities in the service.

You will work your Butt off, but then you'll play hard too.

When things are good, they're good

The down side.

If your looking to get rich.... You picked the wrong job.

When things are bad, they are really really bad. (like 5 guys in your unit are killed in a direct fire ambush or IED bad.)

There are a lot of stupid rules to follow. (how many rings you can wear(up to 3). Whether or not your socks can have emblems on them in PT gear(they can't). The color of the laces in your boots. (whether or not you can drink on deployment(depends on the base) Sex? (Little thing called General Order #1a,1b)

If you decide that you don't like your job... Too bad. You're stuck, until your contract is over (your contract may be extended with or without your consent in some cases) I am currently deployed with several IRR (individual Ready Reserves) or in laymans terms folks that got out, only to be re-absorbed involuntarily.

The few idiots you meet will make up for 10 in the real world (also they will likely outrank you, and probably write your evals.)

For all the goods and all the bads, if given a chance to do it over, I would probably do it again.

SSN Vet
July 27, 2007, 12:05 PM
joining the military for what you can get out of the deal is, IMHO, becoming part of the problem....and will leave you disappointed.

once upon a time it was refered to as being in the service..

so if you join because you want to serve and make a contribution to something you deem to be worth while, then you can be part of the solution ....and find satisfaction.

Ithaca37
July 27, 2007, 01:36 PM
IMO the military is not a good choice. It is not fun and games where you play with guns all day. Shooting and weapons has very little to do with it. It is about someone else controlling your life for years until your commitment is up. Please go find a regular job and don't listen to the recruiters who will say what you want to hear to get you to sign up because once you sign up THEY OWN YOU.

Nomad, 2nd
July 27, 2007, 01:40 PM
The last Paycheck I got was June 8th... (They are bad about paying you on time) I just completed my final physical...

I can't even go into how many ways the Marines have screwed me over.
(I just got JAG involved)

From now on I will be the antirecruter.

Sniper X
July 27, 2007, 01:46 PM
You will MAYBE get to qualify once a year in an admin position. I used to be in charge of an arms room when I went to Ft. Ord to ETS. In the two and a half years at the end of my enlistment, I checked out arms to the finance company and admin company (shared arms rooms) three times. Yes that is 3 times! I went to the range once a week just to check out weapons...ha, check out weapons! Took the 1911s out for some fun, M16s for some rock and roll. and the M-60s for some real firepower. M203s for some boom, but the companies who actually used the arms used them about once a year. At least I got to take the weapons out. But that is what you get to do when your MOS is 18B and you get stuck in an admin company in charge of their arms room! I had a great late enlistment!

Black Adder LXX
July 27, 2007, 02:08 PM
DON'T DO IT if you're looking at it as a way to shoot. There's a million other ways to go. DO IT if you want an experience that you'll look back on for the rest of your life with pride. The military is worth it, but only if you're going in for the experience of the military, not simply more trigger time.

sterling180
July 27, 2007, 02:23 PM
IMO the military is not a good choice. It is not fun and games where you play with guns all day. Shooting and weapons has very little to do with it. It is about someone else controlling your life for years until your commitment is up. Please go find a regular job and don't listen to the recruiters who will say what you want to hear to get you to sign up because once you sign up THEY OWN YOU.

Thats the whole point of the 'military'.This is why this guy must think long and hard about his career,because it will be one of the biggest challenges of his life.There are many benefits that the military offer,so it isn't all about square-bashing and being ordered around by a foul-mouthed jerk-off of an nco.The recruiters will use ploys to lure in unsuspecting people,but they are generally honest about conditions in the armed forces and anyone knows what to expect in the military anyway.I don't know about the US but in the UK they are mainly honest about the conditions,except for some living quarters,which are for enlisted personnel,but ncos and higher are exempt from.

Most recruiters will make an honest evaluation of you and I went to Chatham dockyard years ago and the Paras were there,with their maroon berets,recruiting.I asked them that I was keen to join them and they took one look at me and advised me to 'bulk up' and do some weight-training,because of the physical and mental torture involved in phase 1 training.They were concerned,that it might damage me.This was said by a RSM.

Now this is a fact and a true fact alone:Most if not all employers of all industries and from all levels(From the working-class to upper-class levels.)value ex-military personnel.I know an ex-green beret Royal Marine Commando
who left the service some years ago and he studied marketing and got his degree through Naval funding and he paid for his CIM(Chartered Institute Of Marketing.)exams himself,after he passed his degree exams.

Now within a week he was working up in London,for Tiscalli earning £50-£60k a year with bonuses and commissioning opportunities,for related work.Now thats a huge transfer indeed and he got the job,simply because employers value military or ex-military personnel for their ability to time-manage,multi-task,concentrate and time-keeping skills.So no regular deli-stops and coffee and doughnut times,for most of these people,which is what bosses love.

To put it in simple terms:An ex-military or part-time reserve secretary will more than likely concentrate more,especially if he or she was an nco or a warrant officer,who ran a military office-than that of the stereo-typical secretary,who would be chatting about this and that and generally waste time.

Oh and

Ohio Rifleman
July 27, 2007, 04:13 PM
A little known fact of military service is, that when you sign up, one of the first things they do to you is tattoo "Property of Uncle Sam" on your forehead.

(Not true, I just made that up, so don't flame me! But that's kinda the impression I get from military service. I think I'll pass, and do what I can to help out here at home.)

TimboKhan
July 27, 2007, 05:44 PM
The last Paycheck I got was June 8th... (They are bad about paying you on time) I just completed my final physical...

I can't even go into how many ways the Marines have screwed me over.
(I just got JAG involved)

This is kind of what I was talking about when I said that you have to understand what your getting into. My experience was apparently as different from Nomads as it could be. I don't know where the differences lie, but obviously there are some.

The not getting paid on time is weird. With direct deposit, it's a simple matter of just processing your check into your bank. I have never not been paid exactly on time by the government, either in the USMC or now that I get a disability check. Wierd. I will say that when I got discharged, it was bungled pretty badly, but that was the regimental discharge clerk's fault, not the Marine's. I actually had to call my senator after not getting a DD214, final paycheck, or basically anything indicating that I had been discharged for a full 6 months after I was discharged. Then, the clerk just did a craptastic jbo on the DD214, so I ended up having to get another one done. Given that I was our battalions discharge clerk, that guy was having a hard time coming up with a good excuse for me.

On another note, U.S.SFC_Ret said:

Some of those leaders are losersMost of those leaders are average and a percentage are great leaders. Leaders are Made but in the meantime they can get you killed because they put you into a position that you can't get out of that you have no choice or voice in it yourself.

And he was dead on. I was lucky enough to have, at a minimum, competent leadership the entire time I was in the Marines. I was also lucky enough to serve under some truly great leaders, most notably LtCol. (Now Lt. General) J. M. Mattis and a fantastic 1st Sergeant named Ronald Genet. Our battalion did have some real losers: One Lt. got discharged for being a narcissitic, cry-baby a-hole; another was stealing cars, and another had sex with a minor. I never had to work under those guys, but they sure enough were losers. My first platoon commander was sort of a nitwit in garrison, but he turned out to be an excellent combat commander. My point here is that you can't choose your leadership, and you have to be prepared to deal with some real idiots. I was being quite literal when I said that I got "lucky"...

When you fall someone will be there to pick you up.

There are alot of vollunteer opportunities in the service.

You will work your Butt off, but then you'll play hard too.


This is all true as well. Unless your just a miserable bastard that no one likes, if you get hurt or are in a pickle, you generally will always have the support of your buddies. The volunteer opportunites are pretty varied, and were possibly one of my favorite aspects of service. We got to do a bunch of "Marine for a day" Make-a-Wish things, and they were always incredibly fun and extremely rewarding. Plus, Toys for Tots. I enjoyed the service aspect of it, and I also enjoyed the amount of tail that I pulled by standing around in my blues asking for toys for needy kids. That might sound a little bad, but no one ever said that volunteer service is a one way street! Also, when we got together and played, we played hard, and we had serious fun.

U.S.SFC_RET
July 27, 2007, 05:58 PM
98% I got paid on time every time except when congress balks on approving the budget or the president has to sign and approve or what not.
The military won't let you know its leadership credentials but the reports are out there at command levels. Brigades cycling through the National Training Center and the problems, They are called "learning experiences". Problem is sometimes "command doesn't learn"..

trueblue1776
July 28, 2007, 02:24 PM
The not getting paid on time is weird.

Getting a bill for $3000.00 for a PCS move you made 6 years ago is even weirder, welcome to bizarro military land, where customer service starts with an "F" and ends with a "U".

Tully M. Pick
July 29, 2007, 01:17 AM
I will say that when I got discharged, it was bungled pretty badly, but that was the regimental discharge clerk's fault, not the Marine's. I actually had to call my senator after not getting a DD214, final paycheck, or basically anything indicating that I had been discharged for a full 6 months after I was discharged. Then, the clerk just did a craptastic jbo on the DD214, so I ended up having to get another one done. Given that I was our battalions discharge clerk, that guy was having a hard time coming up with a good excuse for me.

After getting the runaround for two years on my DD214 I wrote a letter to General Charles Krulak. I had to put my life on hold, couldn't use my MGIB benefits, and couldn't even prove that I had ever been in the Corps. Sure I had a copy of my records and orders, but no one accepts those the same way they accept a DD214.

Katigroszek
August 16, 2007, 06:04 AM
I advise against military.
I'm not US citizen and military service here, where I live, is a must for every man over 18 yrs unless he is still learning or studying. I'm 32 now and had the luck to avoid the service. I love guns since I was a kid and started reading on firearms when I was 10 - serious staff (principles of operation of semiauto and automatic weapons, ballistics and such), not some kind of baby crap. I know it sounds like I'm making it up, but I'm not - believe it or not, as you please. I was always very intelligent (last IQ test 143-thinking of joining Mensa) and had hard times to listen to stupid and arrogant people trying to give me orders taht did not make any sense. That is why I always try to avoid military service and finally succeded (when I finished law school all that year's graduates were free from service).

I now have similar problem to the thread starter guy - I'm about to have my examinations for a lower court judge - very hard 3-day exam in front of 5 upper court judges. But law is boring and the work of judge is not attractive for me too. Therefore I'm about to make a U-turn (bet my folks won't like it) and start a gun related business - which is IMHO what the guy should do. I'm about to apply for a handgun/carbine/shotgun/rifle instructor course and exam (6 months) and then I will start a handgun/rifle range in my city's vicinity. I've thought hard and that is the way to go for me! Perhaps for him too! That way I will be my own boss, will afford all the guns I want and make a living out of it too.

Glockman17366
August 16, 2007, 06:35 AM
I did 8 years regular Navy. I carried a 1911 on watch (unloaded, but had a full magazine in a belt carrier) and, on one ship, was a member of the ship's self defense force (rifle, selective fire...the rifle was in the ship's armory until a drill or the need arose.
Anyway, if you're out of school and don't know what to do...the military is a good option. It still "makes a man of you".
But, unless you're infantry...you may not carry a rifle much after boot camp.

Now, even though I was a "lifer" (at least headed in that direction), I'm against sending troops overseas unless there is a declared war and total commitment to win...but, you'll not see much of that these days, I'm afraid.

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