Anyone have Army marksmanship manual FM23-35?


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willbrink
July 28, 2007, 04:24 PM
I was looking at the Ayoob/Lethal Force Inst. site at their courses and found this statement:


"The StressFire combat shooting system developed by LFI has been adopted into combat pistolcraft doctrine by the United States Army. Documentation of this fact is readily available, and readily visible with a glance at the Armys marksmanship training manual FM23-35. "

Found here:

http://www.ayoob.com/AboutUs.html

Anyone have this document to confirm? I have nothing against Ayoob per se, but the Army needs to go to him for combat hangun training? Like, none of the people out of X,Y,Z secret squirrel group can't develop the Army's combat pistol craft doctrine?

I enjoy Ayoobs articles in the gun rags, his bit on Defense TV (though again, some of his advice on that show seems a bit over the top, but never mind that....) but I am dubious of this claim.

Poser or real deal?

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ilbob
July 28, 2007, 04:33 PM
google fm23-35

jobu07
July 28, 2007, 04:41 PM
I've got FM 3-22.9 (old FM 23-9). Rifle marksmanship M16A1, M16A2/3, M16A4, and M4 Carbine.

willbrink
July 28, 2007, 05:54 PM
"google fm23-35"

Good advice. Should have thought of that.

Langenator
July 28, 2007, 10:48 PM
OK, FM 23-35 is pistol marksmanship. Explains why I've never seen it.

.pdf here (http://www.kmike.com/38/fm-23-35.pdf)

FM 3-23.35, the new version, in html, here (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-23-35/index.html)

Trebor
July 30, 2007, 04:20 AM
Read "Stressfire" and read the FM and decide for yourself.

My understanding (and I could be wrong) is not so much that the Army went to Ayoob to develop a training doctrine but that the Army basically just ripped-off Ayoob's "Stressfire" concepts and adopted them as their own.

Mas is a member here so he may pipe in himself. Or you could PM him and get it straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.

Jeff22
July 30, 2007, 07:16 AM
If you compare the October 1988 version of FM 23-35 Pistols & Revolvers with Massad Ayoob's book Stressfirefrom 1984, you'll see a few similarities.

Most obvious, check out pages 2-21 and 2-22 of the Army Manual. They show a technique of pivoting 360 degrees while in the kneeling position. This is identical to a technique in the Streefire book that is, I believe, called "the stressfire star" or something like that.

In an article in AMERICAN HANDGUNNER in 1990 or so, M. Ayoob made reference to doing a seminar for the AMTU at Fort Benning, and that certain of his concepts made it into the current training doctrine.

HRT
July 30, 2007, 10:30 PM
http://stevespages.com/page7c.htm has FM23-35 available...1988 edition

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