I shot my first reloads-Doctor says I should be okay in a couple weeks.


PDA






.41 magnum man
July 29, 2007, 12:18 AM
:p :neener: Just kidding!

Well, I tell you what. Ole .41 learned some things about his Ruger today.

First off, I loaded some Winchester brass (from win. factory loads I had already shot) 16 gr. of 2400 powder, with a CCI large pistol primer. First thing I did was get my dies mixed up in my mind and tried to seat the bullet with the expander die. Shoved the first bullet in too far by about .020. I adusted it, and shoved the next one plumb down in the case. What in the world I did I don't have a clue. Probably should have been in the hospital!
Finally got straight on that. Got things going and ended up with 6 loads in Win. cases, and 4 loads in Rem. cases. It was getting dark but I shot the 6 Win cases first. All shot a little high at about 12 yards. Put in the Rem. shells. All of a sudden my gun won't cock. The cylinder won't spin. I figure :eek: I messed up my gun! The gun didn't seem to have too much recoil to me. Must have done something though. Take out the cylinder and get out the bullets. I try to cock my gun and it won't cock! :what: I keep fooling with it. Sometimes it will cock, but most times it will not. :confused: I finally notice the transfer bar (the bar that comes up between the hammer and firing pin) is loose. Oh, man. It is hitting the firing pin and won't come up past it, which in turn is keeping the hammer from cocking. I guess I messed with that for 15 minutes. I try putting the cylinder back in. It will go in, but the pin that goes through the middle of it won't slide back in place. It is stuck. :eek: I've done it now. I've done messed up my gun. :uhoh: Probably no warranty now that I've shot reloads in it. Woe is me. Made my daughter get out of the shop so I could cry. :(
Just before I cried, I took out the cylinder again and got the pin to slide back in. Then I noticed that it hits up against the transfer bar and holds it out so it will clear the firing pin. Hey, my gun will cock now! :) So I try the cylinder again, and this time the pin goes in. I guess I wasn't holding my mouth right. Well, after all that, I realize the problem is the reloads. I put them one at a time into the cylinder and spin it. It will rotate around part way then jams up just before the bullet reaches the barrel. All four of the Rem. cases do that. Jam up in the same place. Hmm. :scrutiny: Ah-ha! There is a recess behind the cylinder part way around until it gets to just before the barrel. Something is getting stuck there. It is the primers. They are sticking out. That was the problem all along. I am happy, but angry that I am so stupid that I think everything else is wrong before I figure it out. Real glad I didn't cry!

So, it is time to figure out what caused this little problem. I put primers in 4 new Rem. cases. I get my daughter back into the shop. She puts each one into the cyinder separately and gives it a spin. All is well. So I load them up. Have her do the same thing again as I reload the next one. First 3 go around like a charm, but the fourth jams up in the same place again. Yep, the primer is sticking out again. Obviously, some part of my proceedure is causing the primer to push back out again on some of the Rem. cases. What in the world is it? I wouldn't think that 16 gr. of powder would fill up the case enough for the bullet to press against it and push out the primer. Or would it? I'm sure someone else has had that problem before. Can anybody give me some advice?

If you enjoyed reading about "I shot my first reloads-Doctor says I should be okay in a couple weeks." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ReloaderFred
July 29, 2007, 02:04 AM
You weren't seating the primers all the way the first time. I can't think of any way the powder could push the primers back out of the primer pockets. Instead of loading your rounds all the way before testing them in the cylinder, just prime them and then test in the cylinder. If they clear, then you're on the right track.

To properly seat the primers, they should optimally be approximately .005" to .006" below flush. In any event, they should never be above the base of the case.

Hope this helps.

Fred

.41 magnum man
July 29, 2007, 02:37 AM
I did test the last batch of 4 right after I primed them by putting them in the gun, and they all worked. But after finishing loading them, one of them would not allow the cylinder to spin because somewhere during the process the primer came back out a little. It worked before being completely loaded and was at least flush with the case, but stuck out and would not work after loading. Now whether the first batch of Rem. cases had the primers seated properly before I finished up the loads, I can't say for sure. But I did them the same as I did the last test batch.

donttellthewife
July 29, 2007, 04:07 AM
Could it be loose primer pockets, 6 win cases OK, then the rem cases don't work because of primers backing out. The only time I've experianced loose primer pockets was in loading 308 rounds, and I felt the difference in resistance while seating them. Had the same feeling seating berdan primers once, only that time it was an undersized primer.

Check your primer pocket dia., compare the two different cases.
What brand of primers are you useing.

JDGray
July 29, 2007, 09:17 AM
+1 on loose primer pockets. I found that R-P brass is thinner than most in my .357 cases, I had neck tension issues. The primers should seat with some resistance, if they go in loose, the case goes to scrap. I did load some 45 cases once with some Magtech primers, and they seemed tighter than usuall. Maybe they were a tad larger in diameter. 2400 shoots really well in my old 41 mag:)

baz
July 29, 2007, 09:57 AM
Well, the result of my first 357 reloads -- 2 or 3 weeks ago -- was educating as well. For me, the problem was light strikes from not seating primers deep enough. On my third outing, this past week, I had one where the bullet came out part way from recoil, and the cylinder would not rotate because it was now too long. So I guess I have to work next on my crimp.

Walkalong
July 29, 2007, 02:36 PM
All part of the learning process. It helps us understand why we do the things we do when we reload and why we are so anal about primer seating and crimping. (Oh Yea. Neck tension as well. No amount of crimp can make up for poor neck tension)

Glad you are OK .41 magnum man. Just a small bump in the road to learning reloading. :)

Harley Quinn
July 29, 2007, 02:43 PM
That was eye catching:D

Thought I'd see some pictures of a blown up revolver and missing digits:what:

;)

jfh
July 29, 2007, 03:22 PM
As others have said:

1. You are not seating your primers deep enough, or
2. Your used brass has stretched enough to have loose primer pockets.

I've forgotten what press you are using--but in the loading process, pay particular attention to the "feel" of the primer being seated. It takes a bit experience to learn this skill--but I know I can on my Lee equipment--particularly on the turret, and less so on the progressive.

Then, for your quality check, when you remove the round from the press, run your finger lightly over the base / primer. You'll be able to immediately tell if you have a high primer or not. Reloader Fred gave you the specs--and unless your index finger tip is really heavily calloused, you'll be able to feel if the primer is raised or slightly recessed.

Finally, here's another tip: Since you are reloading for a high-pressure cartridge and are new at this, do the following.

1. Measure a cylinderfull (six) cartridges and choose six of the same length--say +- 0.001. Write down this measurement.

2. Now shoot five of the six cartridges. Remove the sixth and measure it.

3. If the LOA is not the same--longer OR shorter--then you are not crimping tight enough, and the result can bind up your gun much the same way your raised primers did--if the bullet creeps out, the cylinder can't index. If the bullet creeps in, pressures can change dramatically, and you could have an 'incident.'

ANY CREEP WILL CHANGE THE CARTRIDGE PRESSURES. So, learn what a good crimp is.

And what is a good crimp? Well, I measure it by how many strikes of an inertial hammer it takes to unseat a bullet. For me with the .38 / .357 loads I am currently developing, it is about five or six 'raps' (not swings) on a concrete floor.

That in turn was based on (a) examining factory ammo to see how much roll it had in the crimp, and (b) asking an experienced revolver reloader to look at my test rounds.

Jim H.

Paul "Fitz" Jones
July 29, 2007, 05:00 PM
I have advised my thousands of customers since CCI primers came on the market that they caused all the reloader explosions I traced down and failures to fire on the range since were CCI also. The CCI's I checked from several exploded machines under magnification varied in cup heights, had burrs on the cup edge, were out of round and were to imprecise in their parameters for several standard brands of Progressive reloaders. There may be some good batches since then but you will not go wrong using Federal and Winchester. At the time CI came on the market all brands of standard primers were of similar strength so as I feel was a marketing ploy, CCI invented Magnum primers that were the same strength as the standard ones so what did that say for the cheapest priced CCI standard strength primers? So the standard primer brands had to invent Magnum named primers also that were really hotter. If you buy the cheapest products you get what you pay for.

critter
July 29, 2007, 06:06 PM
.41 mm-you are learning a lot and doing it quickly. We have all been down that path-most of us much more slowly. I commend you for analyzing your problems and solving them in a logical and safe manner. A lot of that is what makes reloading so much fun. You are in for a long, useful, fun and money saving hobby. (I LIED like a DOG on that last part. Reloaded ammo IS cheaper than factory, but you will shoot TEN times as much!!!)

Enjoy, have fun and be safe!

strat81
July 29, 2007, 07:31 PM
I'd say loose primer pockets too... my R-P brass in 9mm has noticeably looser pockets than WIN, FC, WCC, or S&B.

.41 magnum man
July 29, 2007, 09:54 PM
Thanks everyone. Great stuff. Harley, my wife is always disappointed too when she finds out I'm still around.

The cases I had problems with are brand new Remington cases. Now, I realize lack of experience could be the problem here. But I can feel the primer go in and I put a good steady pressure on it for a few seconds once it is down. JFH, I am using a Lee Classic Turret press.

Lee recommend using CCI or Win primers. Maybe I should try some Winchesters and see if that helps? Maybe I should also get some new brass of another brand to see how that goes too? Good day, the combinations seem endless. Critter, you hit it right about what it costs if you want to shoot a lot. And I want to shoot a lot, I just don't know if I am going to get to!

Well, I guess I showed that I am not only learning about reloading, but also about my revolver. And I am having fun doing it!

jfh
July 29, 2007, 10:32 PM
I use mixed brass for my .45 ACP. In 10mm and .40 S&W, I also have some mixed brass. Basically, this brass is the stuff from the factory ammo I bought early on. When I started reloading, I simply bought new brass--Starline. And, since my mentor and Lee both used / recommended Winchester primers, that's basically all I've ever used. I tried some CCI one time, but didn't like them.

Right now I too am only using my Lee turret (updated) while I get reacquainted with reloading again. I find I can feel the seating just fine: since this step on a turret is done on the downstroke, with no other cases being acted on, if you concentrate you can feel it slide in.

I'm sure you realize that you can check your primer-seating 'feel' quite easily. Since you are just getting started, I'd recommend removing the indexing bar--that way the dies won't rotate. Here's the process.

1. Size one case and install a primer.

2. Raise the ram a bit, to get the pressure off the case, and slide it out of the shellholder.

3. Tip it over in your fingers and, holding it with your thumb and middle finger, run your index finger over it and see how the base feels. You should readily discern whether the primer is slightly recessed or high. If it's high, reinsert the case into the shellholder and lower the ram again, pressing a bit more firmly.

4. Repeat the cycle with a new case and primer. The 'feel' you are trying to develop is to the amount of pressure you need to get that primer completely into place with one stroke. Once you think you have sorted out the right pressure, then do it again five more times. About 10 minutes later, do it again, checking the primer depth. And do it again later in the day, then the next day, etc., etc.

This will build the 'memory' you need for a good reloading process--at least for one part of the process. Once you think you have it down, then you can just random-check for primer height.

My own feel is based on one firm push; there is no need to hold it for any length of time.

The second issue--the bullet setback--needs to be learned, too. Follow the procedure I'm using to learn crimp amounts: get a 'mentor' / visual critique of the crimp. Really too-heavy crimps are obvious--they collapse the case. Too light crimps can be equally obvious if the revolver binds up on the second shot in the cylinder. But, testing crimp tightness with an inertial hammer at the bench is a good way to learn the amount of a crimp and how to set the seating and crimping die.

So, if you don't own them, get an inertial hammer and a case gauge. The case gauge is, at least IMO, better than a chamber check, whether reloading for semiauto or revolver. Mine for 38SPL and for .357 Magnum are tighter than chambers--and a well-adjusted cartrige just slides in smoothly.

Jim H.

Walkalong
July 29, 2007, 10:51 PM
I load on a Projector, but I do not prime on it. I use a hand primer by RCBS. I find it much easier to get consistent priming that way. I tumble my fired cases, size/decap with the Projector, prime, (no I don't clean the primer pockets usually). Now the cases are ready to go. I load them in the Projector as usual. (Minus the sizer of course)

Cosmoline
July 30, 2007, 01:17 AM
There's no way powder can push a primer out unless it's the wrong size primer, too big a hole or not seated properly. After awhile you develop a feel for when the primers are seating properly. That's one reason I only seat primers by hand, never with the press.

tasco 74
July 30, 2007, 02:37 AM
the lee hand priming tool goes along way towards getting primers in properly..... i always run my finger over the primer to be sure it's just below the surface of the case head...... just a quick swipe of your finger will tell you....... i like win cases and primers too... seems like they are less trouble most of the time.........

.41 magnum man
July 30, 2007, 03:12 AM
note to self: get an enema hammer,-I mean- inertia hammer and a case gauge. Thanks, Jim.

Is the inertia hammer the same thing as a bullet puller hammer, or is that two different things?

I may end up getting a hand primer like you guys are talking about. But first I will see if I can get used to this thing. I am beginning to suspect my Remington brass since some others have had problems with it.

If may ask one more question: What sort of tolerance in thousandths of an inch is there on case length, and col? I know what the maximum is, but what about the minimum length? I can see how too short would be a big problem, but if I am within .015 is that good enough, or should it be more like .010 or .005? (Or .0005!)

rc109a
July 30, 2007, 09:13 AM
+1 on the lee hand primer. I had a progressive that would skip priming. Then I would have a mess with all the spilled powder. The lee hand primer lets you take your time and gives you that second look at each case. It helps build cofidence in your rounds. As far as size, I have checked them the first time and let them go afterwards. I have not seen any stretch with the 41. My rifle rounds are different though.

Hawk
July 30, 2007, 10:23 AM
Those of us relatively new to metallics are cautioned to "read the instructions". If you read the instructions that come with the Lee hand primer, you'll run a good chance of returning it. The only primers that can be used without restriction are CCI. Other brands are limited to specific types or should be loaded into the primer in reduced quantities - like ten. Federals are a non-starter.

Tweezering 10 primers into a hand primer would not be my idea of a good time. Options include ignoring the instructions, buying CCI, buying a different primer gizmo or using whatever priming gadget came with your gear.

You can download the hand primer instructions from Lee's web site to see if your primers are on the list of the anointed.

.41 magnum man
July 30, 2007, 10:51 AM
Yeah, Hawk, I noticed they recommend NOT using Federal primers at all. This is according to the Lee reloading manual. Their reason is that Federals are the most dangerous for exploding in their equipment.

Rc, Do you have a .41 rifle?

Bad Flynch
July 30, 2007, 12:12 PM
The doctor is wrong; after a title like that, I believe that you're never going to be "OK."

Harley Quinn
July 30, 2007, 12:18 PM
The doctor is wrong; after a title like that, I believe that you're never going to be "OK."
__________________
B.F.

That is funny, or not;)

kellyj00
July 30, 2007, 12:42 PM
I'm confused... did you hurt yourself? How does your doctor fit into this?

RPCVYemen
July 30, 2007, 01:14 PM
tweezering 10 primers into a hand primer would not be my idea of a good time.

Wow! That doesn't sound like much fun. I have a Hornady hand priming tool, and it's pretty easy to use. I never touch the primers. I put the box of 100 primiers (still the cardboard sleeve) upside down on the fligger plate. Then I slide the cardboard sleeve off. That leaves me 100 primers, anvil side up on the flipper tray. Sometimes a few of the buggers hae flipper over, but I jiggle the flipper tray, and they turn anvil side up. I slide the plastic cover on, and I am done setting up.

Priming with the tool is very fast - slide a case into the shell holder, squeeze the handle, reach for the next case.

A friend suggested a hand primer when I was starting out, so that I got the feel of the primer seating.

I think that was good advice. The two times that something felt "funny", I was inserting the primer backwards! :) I learned to do a quick visual inspection in the hole on top of the tool to make sure that I am seeing an anvil before putting the case in the shellholder.

I don't see myself changing to a press primer mechanism for a long time - priming by hand is pretty fast, and I am in no hurry.

I would be surprised if the pressure of the powder is exerting any pressure on the primer at all. Look at the size of the flash hole.

Mike

MattB000
July 30, 2007, 05:44 PM
Another easy way to check without needing a gun is set the primed case on a flat surface and make sure it doesn't wobble.

.41 magnum man
July 30, 2007, 06:14 PM
QUOTE]The doctor is wrong; after a title like that, I believe that you're never going to be "OK."[/QUOTE]

That is exactly what my wife said. In all honesty though, I have always known I need lots of help. :neener:

Kellyj00, don't feel like the lone ranger when you say you are confused. If you were in my head for a minute or so and seen what I have to deal with...

Oh, hey, guys, listen! I only have a minute. Oh, no, they are coming! I really am

Attention: who ever has been reading the posts by .41 magnum man, you can stop responding to him. He has been on the run from Community Phsychiatric Hospital since he escaped a month ago. He doesn't own any guns, and he doesn't have a reloader. All this is just terrible fantasies in Mr.
.41's head. Now that we have him back in custody, we apologize for any inconveniences, and will keep him from being a nuisance to others, even on the internet. Of course he will be kept in the highest security facilities at the hospital. An Orderly from Community Phsychiatric Hospital.

nitesite
July 30, 2007, 09:31 PM
I have to give you credit, and the award for, the "Most Creative use of the Thread Title bar"!

Look at how you have over 600 views, more than almost any other thread on the page. :)

And the Psycho Hospital insert is hysterical! :D

Walkalong
July 30, 2007, 09:35 PM
"Most Creative use of the Thread Title bar"!
It is pretty good isn't it. :)

Harley Quinn
July 30, 2007, 09:40 PM
Back to the primer situation, sounds like you have been told many things to figure out why and what for. Last but not least.
Gets some new brass and go from there. Do not mix brass/primers etc.
Especially if you are working up hot loads

Get some win brass and the primer you want to use and the bullet and powder and set down and load up 10 rounds of good ammo and shoot it and do it again, and again and again until you are happy and doing it right.;)

HQ.

.41 magnum man
July 31, 2007, 02:33 AM
I don't think I'll be found this time, so back to the discussion:

Good stuff there, Harley. Thanks. I bought some Winchester Primers today. They didn't have any brass, but I will try the new primers in the Remington cases and see if they seat (and stay) better than the CCI brand did. If not, I am going to order some more brass. Thanks for the heads up about not mixing the primers of one brand with another brand, and the same with cases too. The primers I would not have mixed, but I didn't think that about the cases. So far I have only loaded and shot 10 bullets, and that has been at the lowest grain recommended at 16 gr. for Hornady 210 gr. bullets. I will give reloading another shot (another shot! Ha! I just kill me sometimes :fire: ) tomorrow and see how these primers do. Then I am going to step up to the next level of powder and try that. The loads with 16 gr. shot several inches higher than the factory 170 gr. Winchester ammo. But I didn't really have the greatest rest, so I'm not sure about accuracy. At 12 yards or so I was shooting in a three inch circle, but I was just anxious to see if I had reloaded well enough on my first try to make it go bang.

Oh, that brings me another question to mind. Now it was getting dark when I shot, but there was a lot of flash out the end of the barrel when I shot. Could that just be because the lack of light made it show up better, or could it be that for my gun that load is too light? I have read that muzzle flash is a sign of too low a pressure, so that is why I ask. It pretty much looked like a flame thrower for a split second.

And to everyone else checking out the thread, I hope you are enjoying it. Cause if I get caught again, well, I might not get out next time. :D

kellyj00
July 31, 2007, 09:44 AM
I normally have a pretty high tolerance for jokes, but I'm going to say something on this one.

If you weren't hurt by your "first reloads" then it would be the right thing to do to not post that you were. personally, I feel that reloading is what will keep this sport alive in the next few years with ammo prices being what they are, and if folks are scared that they'll hurt themselves then we're not going to have as many reloaders.

That, and I'd like to have more reloaders around to talk to. Please, don't put a bad spin on a good thing. We all have issues time and again with our guns, lets not make it out to look like it's a dangerous hobby.

Entertaining write up none the less....just needs a different title.

.41 magnum man
July 31, 2007, 10:17 AM
I hear you, Kelly, and I understand your thoughts. I'm not sorry though. Anyone reading the first post can plainly see it is a joke, and I am just the kind of guy who can and will joke about anything. Listen, I have cancer, a bad heart, and other health problems and I could go any day. But that is the same for any of us, even if we are the picture of health. Now, don't you get me wrong, because I am not writing this in an argumentative fashion, nor am I against you in any way. I see your point. But I don't go along with that point anymore than you go along with mine, and that is fine. No worries. But I'm not changing. I'm a happy guy with the Lord in my heart. If I live I have a lot to look forward to, and if I die I got even more to look forward to. My nature is to joke and make people laugh. And I'll tell you this: If I had for real blown my hands off and was blind--I'd make a joke about that too.

The only people who see something as bad, are people who want to see it as bad. Reading my post isn't going to make somebody who is on the fence dive off the other side, although some idiot may use it as an excuse. If I had said, "My dog was killed by my reloads," then said it was a joke, do you think a hundred people would suddenly sign up for PETA because of that? Nope, they will sign up anyway. And as far as that goes, I'll say this because people don't understand much thses days in this rotten, pc, stupid world gone nuts: If I did push them over to the other side, then let it be so. That is what life is about. We all get pushed until we make decisions. Like I told a boy years ago who I was witnessing to: He didn't like hearing what I was saying to him and I told him I didn't care. For what I said was going to have one of two effects on him. Either he would believe what I said and accept it, or he could get mad and reject it. He rejected it. Is that my fault? No. So you see, if someone wants to get mad over the truth and push you away, how much stupider it is when someone is plainly kidding around and another decides to bail out when there is nothing real to base the decision on!

Kelly, I hope you have a great day. I mean that. And I'm not mad, and I'm not worried. I hope we get to yak on some stuff we do find in common. Take care.

Walkalong
July 31, 2007, 10:26 AM
I thought it was entertaining myself. Ya'll be safe now ya' hear. :neener:

Harley Quinn
July 31, 2007, 11:16 AM
41 magnum man,
I think you are on the right road now, just be very careful as you work up a load. 10 at a time.
You will see the group get smaller and larger as you change powder amount.
It will also start to show when you get to the higher pressures.
So just find a good medium load to reload that groups well. 3" is good.

When you get better at doing this then you can start to tinker with higher loads etc..

Good luck, Keep us posted.
Forget about the jokes for now.

I think what some are trying to tell you is reloading is very methodical...
A personality that is not methodical at the time of doing this will mess up.
Getting hurt with this stuff is not good, nor do those who take it serious appreciate. IMHO

Responsibility, begets responsibility.:uhoh:

Follow the books advise regarding everything, it will become clear as how to do it and why. You just had a hiccup, and will do fine I figure.

Some will throw the loads (medium is fine), others measure it and weigh every single one (hotter). Starting out I'd get into a certain pattern that will help you not make mistakes later. If you are not sure, read the book again.



:)

caz223
July 31, 2007, 11:41 AM
Oh, that brings me another question to mind. Now it was getting dark when I shot, but there was a lot of flash out the end of the barrel when I shot. Could that just be because the lack of light made it show up better, or could it be that for my gun that load is too light? I have read that muzzle flash is a sign of too low a pressure, so that is why I ask. It pretty much looked like a flame thrower for a split second.


Muzzle flash has nothing to do with low pressures, no idea where you may have heard that.

If you shoot at high noon, chances are you won't see any muzzle flash.
If you shoot during late afternoon with the sun at your back you will begin seeing the flash. At night the flash will be blinding when using 2400.
Magnum powders flash. They make more power by burning slowly, keeping the bullet in the barrel longer, the faster burning powders kick the bullet out of the barrel fast, too fast for optimum velocities. Slow burning powders are still burning when the bullet exits the barrel, thus, more flash.

lil ski
July 31, 2007, 11:46 AM
I had a Rossi 38 that I could not use CCI primers for the same reason. One of the guys I shoot with told me CCI primers are harder and and a few thousands longer so if they can not be seated flush in the case they will not flatten out like all the other primers. I swiched to federal and have never had another problem and that has been many cases of primers ago. I use a Dillon 550 and have only had 1 primer (it was a federal) pop :what: when I was pressing it in and I have been reloading with that press for 12 years.

Harley Quinn
July 31, 2007, 12:03 PM
41 magnum man:

If you decide to use the 41 magnum for bear hunting make sure you use some powder that has a long flame, it is good when the bear gets close. You shoot them in the head and blind them with the flame, old story I read once:neener:

If you really want to see a flame that is 44 inchs long or so, shoot a "30 carbine" revolver with rifle ammo, it is cool to say the least. At night of course:what:

The night vision suffers with that one:D

Ever hear the song by Marty Robbins about Shorty?
http://www.lyricsdownload.com/marty-robbins-mr-shorty-lyrics.html

Tells a good story about flame:evil:

callgood
July 31, 2007, 05:00 PM
Could it be that the primer pockets themselves are of differing depths, either due to mfg differences or from being fired? If you run them thru a pocket uniformer, you will start out with the same depth on all pockets and eliminate one variable.

I prime with a RCBS hand primer. I don't even know how to do it on my Forster. I can sit in my den and prime brass by the coffee can with a movie on in the background. Any coffee can with primed brass has the mouth expanded and is ready for powder and bullet. When it's time to load some up this really speeds things along for me.

.41 magnum man
July 31, 2007, 05:07 PM
I haven't heard the song about "Shorty" yet, but I did hear that Johnny Cash wrote the ring of fire after getting the Preparation H mixed up with the Ben Gay! :D

It would be my luck that I would just make a nekkid bear!

Caz, I can't recall where I read about the muzzle flash. Might actually be in either my Speers # 11 or in the Lee book. They said something about that muzzleflash could be too low a load, but that most people think the opposite and quit going any higher with the powder when that is what they are actually supposed to do. I'll see if I can find it.

I got some Win. primers and I am having less trouble with them, but I still have some of them not going in all the way in the Remington cases. It is also harder to actually feel them going into the primer pocket than it was with the CCI's . I think I'm going to get some different brass and see what that does. Already getting more expensive, and I haven't even got going good yet!

I tell you one thing though--those minimum loads are still yet hotter than the 175 Gr. Winchester factory loads. Or at least it seems to me they are. And I'm only up to 1150. I'm sure you would all get a kick seeing me shoot that baby. I'm a big guy, but I've never shot any magnums before in my life until this one. One thing I finally did learn was to keep my pinky finger out from under the pistol handle. I've done smashed my finger 3 times when that gun has gone off! It is a wonder I'm not gun shy. And I smashed my thumb on my left hand one time using that hand to help steady the pistol. Didn't realize the meaty part of the thumb was under the grip. Pow and Yow! But I love it. I got to get me some better rests than my old hunting coat though. Every time I shoot I can smell that jacket melting.

Lil ski, I was wanting to try the Federals, but my Lee instuctions recommend only Winchester and CCI. Hey, do you fellows feel that certain brass is better than others? What kind do you use?

And Harley, thanks a bunch for everything. I do take this reloading seriously. Being a crispy critter aint my idea of how I want to leave this world. So to everyone, thanks a lot, and I admit I can get carried away sometimes. Please don't kick me out. I really like it here. :)

Harley Quinn
July 31, 2007, 05:34 PM
Hi 41 magnum man,
Do you have a little primer brush cleaner (rcbs) It might be the ticket:uhoh:

Those cases that are not seating right, might have some stuff in them that hamper the ability for you to seat then deep enough.
Sort of a simple sounding thing, but might look into it:scrutiny:

HQ

Hawk
July 31, 2007, 05:50 PM
One thing I finally did learn was to keep my pinky finger out from under the pistol handle. I've done smashed my finger 3 times when that gun has gone off!
The first time I shot a SBH in .44 I did the same thing. First shot numbed it up so I didn't notice and kept going. By the next morning my little finger had a knot the size of golf ball and it was the cause of great jocularity at my workplace.

I replaced the grips the next day.

Walkalong
July 31, 2007, 05:53 PM
Hey, do you fellows feel that certain brass is better than others? What kind do you use?

I like Winchester and Starline. The new Winchester .357 cases I just bought were tough to prime the first couple of times until they loosin' up just a tad. They have stayed easy to prime after that. Starline is so good at consistent case length they almost don't need trimming. Both hold up well.

lil ski
August 1, 2007, 07:03 AM
Lil ski, I was wanting to try the Federals, but my Lee instuctions recommend only Winchester and CCI. Hey, do you fellows feel that certain brass is better than others? What kind do you use?

I don't use any 1 kind of brass but most of mine is winchester or rem. I don't see why Federals would not be recommended in your Lee any one have any ideas.

shc1
August 1, 2007, 08:09 AM
So how are the primers working out? Still thinking it must be the brass but stranger things have happened.
Keep us posted, online and at Whitetail Outfitters.
Glade I had the chance to talk with you, good shooting.

caz223
August 1, 2007, 08:22 AM
A lot of people diss REM brass, I got 6 boxes of remington factory ammo for my .41 in 1993, at $30-$35 a box.
I proceeded to reload that same brass until 2001 or 2002 with NO splits, and NO loose primers. I annealed the necks once. I retired that brass because it got to looking ratty, but I still have it (Most of it, anyway.). I averaged at least 100 rounds a week. You do the math, that brass has been loaded an insane number of times, with no problems, and I tended to load hot in those days.
I got 1000 or so of starline .41 now, and look forward to shooting that until the day I die.
Maybe those boxes of REM factory ammo were dusty and made in the '70s, no idea, and maybe their quality isn't what it used to be, but I had good luck with REM.
That being said, STARLINE ROCKS!!!!!

Hawk
August 1, 2007, 11:01 AM
Everything I've loaded so far has been Starline - no complaints here. 'Course it's mostly handgun stuff.

I don't see why Federals would not be recommended in your Lee any one have any ideas.
The consensus conjecture is that is blows up or might blow up or blew up once. There are quantity restrictions on other brands / types. Now that I'm the proud new owner of a single stage, those hand-primer gadgets looks like a "must have" so I just bought one that came with different instructions. Downloadable manuals are 'da bomb, so to speak. The one I got looks to cost about triple what the Lee costs with no obvious difference in the product - perhaps the extra money just goes into the liability insurance premiums to cover the absence of warnings in the manual.

Harley Quinn
August 1, 2007, 11:20 AM
This could be some of the reason why so many are able to have these higher velocities and pressures and not have a blown up firearm.

Improving the strength and ductility at the start is going to help I would think.
For the average shooter of light loads it is not going to help one bit...IMHO...

http://www.starlinebrass.com/

.41 magnum man
August 1, 2007, 07:33 PM
Thanks men. I guess you are all men? Anyway, yes, shc1, I am pretty sure my problem is the Remington brass. I have 50 Winchester cases from factory loads I shot, and I put the Winchester primers in them, and I could tell a difference in every way. I could feel them seat better, and they all went in farther than they did in the Remington brass. I had my gun shop order me some Starline Brass just to see how that will work. Slowly but surely, I am progressing toward finding the best combination for me and my gun.

caz223
August 2, 2007, 08:11 AM
OMG, you will love starline.

.41 magnum man
August 2, 2007, 12:09 PM
Doggone it! I called the gun shop today to order a Hogue Grip and asked about when the Starline brass would be in, and they said they are not sure if they have a supplier for that. I don't get that, but I just told them if they can't get it I'll take some Winchester brass. He got happy about that, so I guess Winchester brass it will be. Which will work fine I imagine, I just wanted to try the other out since many of you liked it so well. I'll get some later. :(

Harley Quinn
August 2, 2007, 12:22 PM
Just order it on line, it is easy.

http://www.starlinebrass.com/

Winchester is ok, but if you want Starline just read the link.

HQ

Hawk
August 2, 2007, 12:34 PM
There may be a retailer that discounts Starline - if so, I haven't found any. I just got mine from Starline direct.

I've found the last several posts to be somewhat depressing. I thought my relatively smooth transition into metallic reloading was due to my research, astute equipment purchases and conscientious attention to printed matter.

It seems it's far more likely it's because I started with 4,000 pieces of virgin Starline. I gather my life will get a great deal more interesting as soon as I start regularly loading range tailings. Oh well.

I hate it when my reality check bounces. Maybe I'll check into .41's old place now that there's a vacancy at the "home".
:what:

Harley Quinn
August 2, 2007, 03:01 PM
Hawk,
Cute, and correct.

You need to read, read. And like they say measure twice, cut once.

If you are going to be shooting run of the mill loads, there really never is a problem unless you are not careful and check the brass good. If you are looking for the best groups and such you will always need to match brass and primers etc. IMHO...

Blazing away and shooting is not what most reloaders go for. They are looking for the better group. That is something very illusive. Especially in a hand gun. The guy who is happy with the run of the mill shooting is not as particular as the person shooting match :uhoh:

The Starline brass seems like it is top of the line and something I'd really check into if I was loading some hotties. Of course you will work into the load and everytime you change brass or primers they recommend you drop down 10% (if your at max).

Sounds like you have had a good run. You don't pick up brass? How long has it taken you to go through 4000 rounds of ammo (brass) :what:

Hawk
August 2, 2007, 05:23 PM
I'd be happy to pick up brass, but the indoor ranges I use present difficulties in that regard where my semis are concerned.

I discover revolvers late in life and find they not only don't blow brass all over creation, but they also eat expensive stuff. Somehow, my hindbrain starts whispering that there's no obvious rule against starting with handloads and bypassing the whole "save the brass from the factory round" deal. Probably not the most conventional way to get started in metallics but what the hey.

I believe many here shoot more than I do - I've loaded maybe 2500 rounds since this started late last year and there's several hundred waiting to be shot - first all .45 Colt, then .357. I've just started .41 and the .44 brass just showed up a couple days ago - it's still in the box.


Heck, and here I was all proud of the consistency I was getting and not able to understand why anybody would want a FCD and the nice lady at Starline gets all the credit. Rats!
:(

.41 magnum man
August 2, 2007, 06:03 PM
Hey Hawk, You will like my old room. And I can come and visit. If I know how to sneak out, I imagine I can sneak in! I can imagine the horror of realizing the Starline was the secret to your success the whole time. Apparently it was so secret you didn't even know it.

But Hey, I got another question: My next step up with the 2400 powder for me is 17.6 gr. Well I loaded up some shells and shot them. My first six shots were to the left but I could cover them all with my thumb. So I shot the other 3 or 4 getting it sighted in. I shot the last two free hand, one went into the bulls eye and the last was about 1/2 inch off. All shooting was at 12 yards. Well, afterwards I figured I'd load up some more just like those, but I looked at my scales and notice I had actually only loaded it 17.5 instead of 17.6. I moved it up the 1/10th of a grain, and loaded 20 more shells. Now those suckers are hitting all over the place in a 3 inch circle! Would 1/10th of a grain actually make that much difference? I guess I'll go back down 1/10 to see what it does again.

Now I got one more question: Say the sweet spot using that powder in my gun is 17.5 gr. Well, if I keep going up and the bullets start going erratic again, is it probable that I could hit another sweet spot at the higher loads? My book goes up to 20 grains.

Hawk
August 2, 2007, 07:20 PM
I can imagine the horror of realizing the Starline was the secret to your success the whole time. Apparently it was so secret you didn't even know it.
Sucks to be me.

My .45 Colt didn't seem to care how much Trial Boss it was getting fed so long as it was listed somewhere in the "Cowboy" manuals (mousephart). At least I didn't notice much difference between min and max.

The .357 with H110 was erratic at starting (low) loads and seemed to like near max (16.7 with a 158). A 1/10th grain difference never hit the radar. I'd 'spect a massive difference in performance between loads separated by 1/10th grain are separated by more than the 1/10th grain. But we'll see what the <ahem> old timers say.

I'm just starting with 2400. Looks like a good opportunity for me to hang back and see what you turn up in your voyage of discovery.

Harley Quinn
August 2, 2007, 09:41 PM
My favorite for my 44 mag:
240 grain bullet,
24 grains of,
2400

:cool:

.41 magnum man
August 4, 2007, 01:40 AM
Hawk, cheer up, man. If you want a secret that will make you feel better, check out Victoria's secret.

Oh, and though you probably saw it already, I started another thread about my voyage of discovery. oooo! I like that. Voyaage offff disssscovery! :D

Harley, I see you like that 2400 powder. Wow, 24 grains. What kind of velocity are you getting with that?

Harley Quinn
August 4, 2007, 02:14 AM
Harley, I see you like that 2400 powder. Wow, 24 grains. What kind of velocity are you getting with that?
*************

In days of old in the 80's I was loading that particular round and have not done it in a long time.
The 240-2400-24 grains has a ring to it, but I am not sure if they were a bit on the hot side or not. But it does stick in my mind, load is compressed, so I am not sure if my memory is playing tricks or not.

I looked in an old Speer book that I used back then, Hmmm Speer #7 mentions a 235 at 24 grns at 1450 or so.

I have that particular page marked.

So it must be what I was doing then:eek:

billybob44
August 4, 2007, 04:40 PM
41 Just for my 2cents worth- I have "Hobby" reloaded for over 30 years=rifle-.22 hornet-8MM=pistol-.32acp-.44 Mag. My best overall loads have been with Win. and Fed. both in the use of brass, and primers. You will find that Rem. brass is thinner in all areas, and will cause the most problems throughout your reloading.Rem. makes great guns! I have a 700 Varmit Special in 22-250 that will center hole pennys all day long, at 100yds. Their brass is my last choice to use.

.41 magnum man
August 4, 2007, 05:52 PM
Thanks billybob44, I guess I am retiring the Rem. brass. I ordered some Win. brass that should be in next week. I appreciate you .02 cents worth--I think it might be worth more than that!

Nnobby45
August 5, 2007, 06:29 PM
Somewhere in the near past you must have offended an old Gypsy, or possibly a Jamaican Witch Doctor, since you're obviously the victim of some sort of spell. Nothing you can do.

If you enjoyed reading about "I shot my first reloads-Doctor says I should be okay in a couple weeks." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!