Interesting experience at work last night


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Glamdring
July 1, 2003, 10:34 AM
In addition to being self employed I also work nights at a hotel. Meet a lot of interesting people there.

Last night had a guest that is staying there display some frightening gun handling.

He works for the state, not an LEO. Sounds like he is sort of a private security guard for the state (treasury?). Anyway, his department does various things from armoured cars, VIP protection, etc.

He is staying for a week or so at the hotel, buying new house and already sold old one.

This week he has to leave early for work. Been talking to him over his breakfast. Today I asked him about his carry gun, a glock. Asked if it was 9 or 40. He says "its a 40." Then he goes "since no one else is around", it is like 4am, draws it and lets me look at it.

He hands it over saying "see no round in chamber" while pulling the trigger!!! :what:

I pull the (loaded) mag and lock the slide. It is a Glock 22 loaded with hydrashocks.

I am saying to myself "I REALLY need to explain gun safety to this guy, but I don't think he will listen since I don't wear a uniform."

He asks me how many guns I own. I really don't want to let him know I am carrying. So I say just 4 handguns and 4 longgun. He then asked what kinds and I started talking about my Scout rifle since I figured if I talked about the handguns he would probably guess I was carrying (Shall issue law pased here in MN VERY recently and the media still moaning about it).

He said he only owns two handguns, second one is a Berretta 92F. He carries as back up in armoured truck. He pulls that out of his bag and does the same "see no round in the chamber" while pulling the trigger.:eek:

I pulled the (loaded mag) and locked the slide on that gun. He keeps the 92F loaded with ball ammo.

***

Any suggestions on how to get this guy to listen about gun safety? He is a pleasent person, but unsafe gun handling really bugs me.

Later, we were talking about actual shootings, he mentioned one guy his department got in a gunfight with who was wearing two vests (one over the other) and he said something about how it was scary that just anyone could get things like vests.

I felt like yelling at him about how unsafe gun handling was MUCH more dangerous.

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Henry Bowman
July 1, 2003, 10:43 AM
Although he is a gun owner, he is not a member of the gun culture. Many people who use tools or machines know very little about their safe use. :( :mad:

willyjixx
July 1, 2003, 10:43 AM
invite him to go to a range with you an maybe he will pick up on your "Safety First" Attitude (which is commendable)

Travis McGee
July 1, 2003, 10:44 AM
Jeeez, where to start with this piece of wirk? Sooner or later, he's going to have a negligent discharge and shoot somebody, like his kid.

Glamdring
July 1, 2003, 10:54 AM
willyjixx: Thanks that is a good idea. That way I could say, that I always go over gun safety with everyone I take to the range. Since it is a rural range and members ARE supposed to keep it safe. Plus range rules can very.

GSB
July 1, 2003, 11:28 AM
Why is his carry piece being carried without a round in the chamber to begin with? Is that some idiotic departmental liability policy?

zahc
July 1, 2003, 05:13 PM
If you were me, you'd've immediately said something like "whoa, watch what your doing" when he did that.

Penforhire
July 1, 2003, 07:03 PM
Going to the range with him sounds too dangerous.

Mark Tyson
July 1, 2003, 07:45 PM
I would handle it something like this:

Casually mention "you know, I knew this guy who shot himself by accident once".

Then rack the slide to the rear and visually check the chamber and say "this is the only way to be sure".

Do not raise a scene or become The Great I Am to the guy or he will not listen.

I knew a guy who had a disconcerting habit of bringing loaded firearms to the range(stored loaded in the case) and who failed to keep them pointed up and down range. After the initial "yikes" I very casually said: "WE should probably keep our weapons pointed up and down range, just in case." And then: "Not a good idea to store loaded, you know. Stuff happens ..."

Even if you loathe the guy and do not want to talk to him, DO YOUR BEST to inbue some basic gun safety because other people's lives are also at stake!!!

Standing Wolf
July 1, 2003, 08:39 PM
He sounds like a negligent discharge looking for a place to happen. I'd say he needs some firearms safety show and tell.

4v50 Gary
July 1, 2003, 08:52 PM
I'd say, "For non-LEOs like myself, I prefer to manually and visually inspect the trigger. I was told that you should never assume that a gun is loaded because that's how accidents happen."

If he is silent or asks for more info, continue with, "Some folks leave them empty, just like yours. But somebody comes around and racks the slide back and loads a round and then places it down. The owner returns and opps!:uhoh: "

Skunkabilly
July 1, 2003, 08:58 PM
Why is his carry piece being carried without a round in the chamber to begin with?

It's a secret agent thing. We rack the slide before using it to intimidate people. ;)

Glamdring
July 2, 2003, 03:43 AM
As to the empty chamber. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't supposed to have a hot chamber until he got to work (his permit might even say that). This is MN and till last month the permits in this state often had very strange limits put on them.

Now we are a Shall Issue state, and the media and others are making a lot of noise about all the problems we are going to have :confused:

I didn't say anything to this person when it happened because I couldn't think of a useful way to say what needed to be said. When I am a RO then I have some authority over people, if they break the rules they are out.

Or when people ask me to teach them about guns. Safety, Safety, Safety, and then we get to basics of shooting & marksmanship. Then dryfire. More Safety, then at last live fire.

I have learned the hard way that just because you DO know what your talking about doesn't mean people will listen or believe you. You need to establish credibility and/or authority FIRST. Then you can start instructing.

***
Funny I thought someone would make a comment about a uniformed person handing over their weapon WHILE in uniform to someone else they hardly know.

He doesn't even know I am carrying.

WonderNine
July 2, 2003, 04:01 AM
I KNOW, sooner or later this doofus is gonna have a negligent discharge. "See no round in chamber" BANG!

Doh! I forgot there WAS a round in the chamber!

You should always pull the mag and do the visual inspection before doing any trigger pulling.

Moparmike
July 2, 2003, 08:17 AM
Edited to add: I hope you get him "straightened out." An armed-by-job-description state employee has no business handling a firearm improperly.
This may be the wrong place to post, so apologies for hijacking ahead of time.

Being a little nervous around firearms still (#1), I check loaded status even in a gun store, to establish I am not pointing a loaded weapon in ANY direction that I dont intend to shoot. The bad part is that it is right after I am handed the weapon. Will someone tell me if I am somehow insulting the proprietor or an employee of the shop?

1. I'm working on it, and am coming around quite nicely. I was raised in a liberal household with very little pro-gun attitudes. So handling by others is a little unnerving until I establish its loaded status. In the shop, the person in question was handling the weapon seemingly without reguard to Rule #1 (muzzle--->objects)

Thanks,

Glamdring
July 2, 2003, 08:40 AM
Moparmike: The proper way to hand firearms from one person to another (non gun fight situations) is to check that gun is unloaded and lock or open action (ie leave cylinder open on revolver or bolt on rifle open). Then you hand it to the other person and they SHOULD ALWAYS check themselves that the gun is unloaded.

Part of the reason is so you always check a gun when you pick it up. Part of it is Murphy is alive and well. Also you are responsible (legally, morally, etc) for what you do (with a gun or otherwise) so it is YOUR responsibility to check.

***
Gun Safety is important. MANY gun store employees don't follow basic guns safety. If their feelings get hurt because you use safe gun handling in front of them let them cry.

Also most places pointing an unloaded gun at someone is a crime.

Al Thompson
July 2, 2003, 09:14 AM
Mike, if if you ever lose the slightly nervous feeling, you'd need to think about giving up guns alltogether. :) I've both seen and (stupidly) caused my share of negligent discharges. The only thing that saved me was rule # 2, Never let the muzzle cover anything your not willing to destroy.

If a firearms hits my hand, it gets checked unless I'm accepting a loaded gun to fire.

Working behind a gun store counter, once had a guy walk in with a loaded rifle. He didn't know it was loaded. I checked first, so no harm. Good lesson for him though.

Al Thompson
July 2, 2003, 09:20 AM
Jeff Cooper's Rules of Gun Safety



RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET


More detail here:

http://thefiringline.com/Misc/safetyrules.html

themic
July 2, 2003, 09:29 AM
i'm more of the type to immediately pipe up with sometihng like "whoa watch that trigger finger man!" in a slightly lighthearted no harm done THIS TIME manner.

i still have to get on my dad's case alot. really god at rules 1 and 3, but that index finger habitually reaches for the trigger when he's not thinking about it, while he's cleaning his guns.

keithernTN
July 2, 2003, 10:30 AM
Definitly try to invite him to the range and show him some gun safety. You could help keep this guy from accidentally hurting someone.

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