Limp wristing?


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kamagong
July 29, 2007, 03:01 PM
What is the cause of limp wristing? I'm curious because I'm a new shooter and I want to avoid this problem.

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Steve C
July 29, 2007, 03:16 PM
Limp wristing is not providing enough resistance to recoil which can cause a problem with semi auto functioning. Use and maintain a firm grip on the handgun when shooting and you won't have a problem. How firm a grip one asks? I say hold onto the pistol as tightly as you'd hold on to any other piece of sporting equipment like a tennis racket, golf club or baseball bat. Pretty much the same rule applies to shooting as the other sports about not "breaking your wrist".

Harley Quinn
July 29, 2007, 03:41 PM
If you shoot it one handed and the recoil goes straight back to the shoulder, standing sideways you have less of a tendecy to have the problem you are talking about.

The way to avoid is to grip the pistol/revolver good, but not to good unless you are shooting some of the heavy hitters (which because of your question I think you should avoid til you shoot more).

One thing to do is buy a grip ball and only grip it with your thumb and three lower fingers and get used to that grip. Practice doing that a lot. Leaving your shooting finger straight.

The index finger should not be gripped at the same time.

Then gripping with the three fingers tight into your palm, thumb covering with a good grip, move the trigger finger alone hundreds of times to develop the memory for shooting.

That will help you a lot to increase your ability, to shoot well. IMHO.

HQ

CountGlockula
July 29, 2007, 03:42 PM
Also, most limp wristing results in empty casings hitting you in the head.

Harley Quinn
July 29, 2007, 03:51 PM
Beretta boy,:cool: talking there I am thinking

Lonestar49
July 29, 2007, 04:28 PM
...

The only gun, out of the five I own that I cannot shoot one handed, or have a brain-fart and limp wrist a shot, and pay the price for that, occasionally, is my Colt Defender. All the others continue to feed and shoot.

The Colt will let you get by every know and then, but never 2 shots in a row, and all the (my) others will..

So, IMHO, some guns are forgiving of bad form, and some aren't..


LS

Hunter0924
July 29, 2007, 06:44 PM
In my mind a properly built pistol should run limp wristed, sideways, upside down, dirty, dry, all or none of the above.

The Lone Haranguer
July 29, 2007, 07:27 PM
You need to maintain a firm grip as well as keep your wrist locked while shooting. Obviously, the human wrist cannot be physically locked, but you need to maintain tension/compression on the wrist muscles so the wrist and hand does not move independently of the rest of your arm during recoil. When the gun fires there will be a sudden upward torque, aka muzzle flip. The gun, hand, wrist and forearm must move in unison, resembling a pump handle. It is not just gun malfunctions you have to worry about. Independent movement of your wrist and hand will increase your shot dispersion and your recovery time from recoil to get the gun back on target again during rapid fire.

Hawk
July 29, 2007, 08:16 PM
Limp wrist is probably real but a lot depends on the source.

If it's invoked by your dealer or the manufacturer to explain why your new pistol doesn't work, the liklihood that it's bogus is 99.99999%.

If it comes from your instructor, then I'd guess 50%

Much like critical mass with weapons-grade plutonium, if "limp wrist" invocation occurs in the same paragraph with the phrase "break-in", the bogusity index goes up by an order of magnitude. I've never heard "limp wrist" and "break-in" in close proximity of anything other than a broken pistol. Ever.

A self-defense pistol should run weak hand, one handed, upside down with a compromised grip, if it doesn't, it - NOT YOU, needs fixed.

Harley Quinn
July 29, 2007, 08:32 PM
Good point and one worth addressing for the fellow, who is asking.

I remember that very arguement when in the days of old, the Various Police Departments wanted to go the Semi-Auto's.

They came up with numerous reasons, not to...Now most shoot the Glock Mdl 22 in 40 Cal. Or the 17 in 9 mm:uhoh:

HQ

GRIZ22
July 30, 2007, 07:33 AM
Limp wristing is not providing enough resistance to recoil which can cause a problem with semi auto functioning.

This is correct. Limp wristing only effects semi autos. The more the recoil the more effect it has on the operation of the gun.

If it comes from your instructor, then I'd guess 50%

As an instructor I would up the percentage. There was a lot of talk about limp wristing when the agency I worked for adopted Glocks. The fact that the gun is significantly lighter than similar sized pistols due to the polymer frame. I guess it can be a problem with other polymer frame guns but I don't have a lot of experience with others as I do with Glocks. Rarely did I see it with a 9 mm Glock. I have seen it an issue with some physically smaller shooters with a 45 Glock. However after diagnosing the problem anyone can overcome it even a 4'10" 85 lb shooter I had with a 45 Glock. You just need to hang on to the gun.

Harley Quinn
July 30, 2007, 11:42 AM
Limp wrist or better yet: Sort of a flinch at the time of pulling the trigger.:uhoh:

One of the reason's I recommend gripping a ball the way I did. Sort of a push it, pull it, problem for some. If the trigger pull is light I have found it to be much less of a problem. Seems the heavier the trigger pull the more some seem to have the problem that appears to be not enough backing for the gun for recoil situation.

You can see it even with a two hand hold. So there is more to it than just holding the gun. It seems. Many times that second hand causes problems. So then you have to go to a single hold and work it out.

Persons who push with the left and pull with the right are going to be having some horrible groups ;)

In the Glock there are many springs available for various reasons, some times it is necessary to check that area out.
The lighter bullets are suspect also. The range of ammo from 180 to an area of the light Frag ammo shows that to be a major contributor to some problems that look one way, but are another one totally.

Lumbering bullets vs the fast light ones is what I am talking about. In the 22 rimfire, the weight of the bullet is very important for proper function of the slide. (velocity also as much as little as 4 grains is a culpret), in 22's that is only 10% not like some of the ammo out there where the pistol should operate with a varience of much more than that (weight of bullet).

The ammo for a 45 and 9mm (war ammo) that were recommended never to be changed. When you did all sorts of problems and gunsmithing needed to be done for the want of a different bullet. :what:

Steve C
July 30, 2007, 01:01 PM
In my mind a properly built pistol should run limp wristed, sideways, upside down, dirty, dry, all or none of the above.

I think that's called a revolver.:)

Bobo
July 30, 2007, 03:27 PM
Here's a good explanation with video:

http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a8/a8.html

Carl N. Brown
July 30, 2007, 03:57 PM
Given the fact that if you are fighting for your life
that means you may be fighting already wounded,
a gun that won't function unless gripped firmly
may be a liability.

SheB61
July 30, 2007, 04:56 PM
Simple! Just lock your wrist.....

Hunter0924
July 31, 2007, 01:50 AM
I am friends with a few gunsmiths that tell me (at least as far as a Government Model go) a pistol should run limp wristed, sideways, upside down, dirty, dry, all or none of the above, period. I am sure there are limitations to this but if you own a pistol that is that finicky about how you use it I would switch pistols.
I have attempted to induce failures in several of my Government Models with less than perfect grip technique and they still ran.

.41 magnum man
July 31, 2007, 03:39 AM
Limp wrist? I knew a boy in high school that was limp wristed. He kept asking us other boys to go out with him. Later on, not only was his wrist limp, but he sashayed when he walked. Poor kid. I don't know what was wrong with him. Lack of muscle control I guess.

busy_squirrel
July 31, 2007, 04:26 AM
Limp wristing is real, I can do it on command with some guns. Sometimes claening/lube changes this, but it's a problem that guns shouldn't have. If you don't make a good combo with a particular gun, get a new one.

But any vendor or manufacturer claiming limp-wristed shooting as a reason for problems is only making excuses for their gun.

.41 magnum man
July 31, 2007, 04:32 AM
busy squirrel said: "Limp wristing is real, I can do it on command with some guns."

That's him! That's the guy from high school!

Harley Quinn
July 31, 2007, 11:37 AM
That's him! That's the guy from high school!
*****************

You are a comic, for sure. Hopefully the mods don't ruin your sense of humor and others will not take you to seriously.

You have a good one (humor):evil:

HQ:D

.41 magnum man
July 31, 2007, 04:31 PM
Hi Harley. I hope people just enjoy the goofing off. I sure don't mean to be causing trouble, I just see humor in certain things and act on it. Hey, Busy Squirrel, don't take me serious on stuff like that. I mean no harm.

busy_squirrel
August 1, 2007, 12:13 AM
You talking to me?
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d27/busy_squirrel/me/DCP_1196_2.jpg






Not offended at all.

I was just wondering if guns had been invented when you were in high school.:neener:

.41 magnum man
August 1, 2007, 01:01 AM
Busy Squirrel, I'm so worn out from just getting a deer mounted I can't even think of any cool thing to say right now! Maybe I'll come up with something tomorrow. I do like your picture, though. That wrist doesn't seem too limp to me. :)

RPCVYemen
August 2, 2007, 12:00 AM
I am friends with a few gunsmiths that tell me (at least as far as a Government Model go) a pistol should run limp wristed, sideways, upside down, dirty, dry, all or none of the above, period.

That sounds right to me.

"Limp wristing" in a 1911 is called "FTE" with any other design. With other pistols, it's a design flaw - so they fixed it. With the 1911, it's not possible for it to be a design flaw, so it must be a shooter issue - likely he isn't man enough to handle a 1911. That way it's not necessary to fix the design.

Mike

jefnvk
August 2, 2007, 12:10 AM
Haven't had an issue with it since about my second clip through the first semi-auto I owned.

See it mostly in the first shot from someone who has never shot a handgun before. Tell them to grip better, problem goes away.

jaysouth
August 2, 2007, 08:26 AM
If you own a gun that won't shoot without a good firm grip, think seriously about whether you want your life to depend on it. My primary lineup for defensive carry is a pair of glock 19s rotated every month from carry to range us. I have an aftermarket barrel that I switch back and forth every month to even the wear from range use. I clean each gun when I switch barrels whether they need it or not and replace springs every couple of years.

If you can limp wrist one of my glocks, I will give you a nice crisp $100 bill. At my range, this subject comes up every now and then with the crowd that hangs out there. I always ask someone to demo a limp wrist for me. I have not seen it yet. and the topic suddenly changes. I can shoot my glocks or either one of my Les Baers with only thumb and forefinger of the weakhand in contact with the gun, they all run mechanically perfect. You can't hit anything, at least I can't, but the guns work just like they are supposed to.

A long time ago, a friend in another precinct happened upon a stongarm three on one street robbery. An unobserved forth member of the ghetto social club doing the deed, hit him from behind with a piece of gas pipe. He got his scalp opened up, and right arm broken in two places. With broken arm, he retreived his piece but could not grasp or deploy it. He tried to transfer the gun to his weak hand but dropped it on the ground. He picked up the gun with his left and took down two of the boogers including the one the hit him from behind, despite the grip being slippery from blood. The gun in question was a Colt revolver not subject to mysterious internet malady of "limpwristing"

But ask yourself, if your gun was slippery with blood and you could only get a partial weakside grip and it would not work perfiectly, why would you carry it and use it go defend youself and family?

My wager? You lay a fifty on the bench, I will cover it with a hundred. If you can limp wrist one of my ugly glocks, you get both. If you can't, the fifty belongs to me. The best that I have seen is a "expert" and loudmouth finally put up a five against my ten. Which became mine 50 rounds later.


Internet = BS at the speed of light

Harley Quinn
August 2, 2007, 11:25 AM
I have seen the 17L not eject properly. This was prior to the advent of some spring adjustment for wimpy ammo. When you put on compensators and other items (grooves in the barrel to allow the gas to go upward) to off set the rise in the barrel, that release gas's prior to bullet out of barrel, you can have some problems, I have seen and read.

It really is a situation that needs to be corrected, if happening much.

1911's are prone to every problem known to happen, I have noticed. Why I shoot Glocks.

The best thing to do is make sure you are shooting good ammo. The Walmart stuff can have problems.

I have seen some of the real lightweight bullets cause some problems. When you have a spread of 95 grain to 147 it is not unusual for needing a spring change, I have noticed.

So with that in mind. Any other thoughts?

Calling people names and insulting there manhood is silly...:neener:

HQ

RPCVYemen
August 3, 2007, 12:02 AM
If you own a gun that won't shoot without a good firm grip, think seriously about whether you want your life to depend on it.

That makes sense to me. As long as FTEs are blamed on the shooters, then they couldn't be fixed. Then Glocks came along, and fixed the problem (along with most of the other modern designs). You can only fix a problem you are willing to take responsibility for! Glock assumed FTEs were their responsibility, and fixed them.

Mike

busy_squirrel
August 3, 2007, 01:11 AM
with only thumb and forefinger of the weakhand in contact with the gun, they all run mechanically perfect. You can't hit anything, at least I can't, but the guns work just like they are supposed to.


This was my experience attempting to limpwrist a Glock 17 and a 27, although I did get a FTS and a couple stovepipes in the G27 with outdated frangible ammo.:neener:

hemiram
August 3, 2007, 05:42 AM
If a gun can't be fired without problems regardless of how I grip it, it's not going ot be in my house for long. One of mine is getting another couple of hundred rounds through it as a final break in, and if it doesn't run 100% after that, it will be auctioned off. Every other semiauto I own is immune to grip problems.

unspellable
August 3, 2007, 03:15 PM
Any 22 LR I ever heard of was a blow back, not recoil operated. Bullet weight and recoil have no bearing on the function, it depends on the pressure curve.

On the other hand, a recoil operated pistol depends on cartridge impulse or recoil and doesn't care a hoot about the pressure curve.

I've heard people talk about limp wristing being a problem with pocket sized blow backs, but I'm dubious. They're not recoil operated, the pressure literally "blows the gun apart", albeit in a controlled manner. I would think limp wristing would tend to be a problem with recoil operated pistols having light weight frames.

Harley Quinn
August 3, 2007, 03:55 PM
This is an interesting situation. For the Glock is a center fire weapon but when putting the little 22 kits on it. Then is it a blow back unit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_(arms)

Could be why the small amount of weight of the bullet vs the velocity is so important?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil_operation

I'll have to see if I can help this problem out with a different spring. Hmmm

Might be something to pursue or not:what:

http://www.marvelprod.com/pdf/gungames.pdf

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