Wood bullet?


PDA






nwilliams
July 30, 2007, 07:21 PM
This is an Israeli .308 cartridge with a wood bullet I found in my odds n' ends ammo crate. I remember someone gave it to me but never explained the purpose of it, or if they did I forgot.

Does anyone know what these were used for? I couldn't find out much about it on the internet but then again I didn't look very hard, I figured I'd try here first.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/woodbullet.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "Wood bullet?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Regolith
July 30, 2007, 07:33 PM
The only use for a wooden bullet I can think of is either practice or for crowd control, though I have no idea how lethal a wooden bullet would be.

kingpin008
July 30, 2007, 07:33 PM
Some countries use those (and the rubber type) for crowd control. My grandpa once gave me a pair of HUGE bullets from Ireland - one was solid black rubber, one was wooden, like that. Both had been picked up off the street after a riot in the town he was living in at the time.

Thain
July 30, 2007, 07:40 PM
Vampires, mate.

fixyurgun
July 30, 2007, 07:56 PM
Read sowhere(can't reacall where) that some grenade launchers used wooden bullets. But, I've been wrong before:)

jkingrph
July 30, 2007, 07:59 PM
I think the Swedes used them as "blanks" They had a device to attach to the end of the barrel to shred the wooden bullets.

Hoppy590
July 30, 2007, 08:09 PM
I think the Swedes used them as "blanks" They had a device to attach to the end of the barrel to shred the wooden bullets.

yes. also some are made with hollow soft wood bullets, so the wood works asa gas plug to cycle semi autos, but upon exit of the barrel. the pressure inside the hollow bullet causes it to explode.

MD_Willington
July 30, 2007, 09:09 PM
IIRC the mk7 ammo for the SMLE has a wooden tip under the metal jacket, when it hits something it will deform, I've used ammo like that in a SMLE... I've also seen ammo like that recovered, he bullet is almost bent into a "J"...

SG Merc
July 30, 2007, 09:17 PM
I remember reading that Germany used wooden bullets in WWII. From my understanding they would create quite a devastating wound (take my failing memory with a grain of salt though ...)

ozarkhillbilly
July 30, 2007, 09:23 PM
SG Merc
I remember reading that Germany used wooden bullets in WWII. From my understanding they would create quite a devastating wound


It seems that I have read that as well although I do not remember where, I also believe that the Japanese used them as well. I would think that having a wooden bullet in you that splintered up would be devastating.

ChuckNorris
July 30, 2007, 09:25 PM
i agree with Thain there for Vampires

Ron James
July 30, 2007, 09:27 PM
?????? They are short range training rounds, Every one knew that didn't they :) In fact they are still being advertised for sale.

coolhand567
July 30, 2007, 09:30 PM
I don't know what they were used for, but I have a couple in .30-06 that were handed down to me from my wife's grandfather along with his 1903 springfield (WW1).

daniel (australia)
July 30, 2007, 11:51 PM
IIRC the mk7 ammo for the SMLE has a wooden tip under the metal jacket, when it hits something it will deform, I've used ammo like that in a SMLE... I've also seen ammo like that recovered, he bullet is almost bent into a "J"...


The lightweight filler in the nose of a MkVII bullet - which can be wood pulp, bakelite or aluminium - is there to move the centre of mass further to the rear and thereby promote tumbling on impact with flesh for greater wounding effect. This was the British response to the 1899 Hague convention, which had outlawed the hollow point Mks III, IV and V rounds and the soft-nose rounds developed at Dum Dum arsenal in India, all 1890s answers to the marked lessening of knock-down power when the early jacketed round-nose .303 replaced the soft lead .577/.450.

BTW the bending of the bullet occurs as a result of the loads on the bullet as it tumbles in the target.

daniel (australia)
July 30, 2007, 11:59 PM
I remember reading that Germany used wooden bullets in WWII. From my understanding they would create quite a devastating wound


It seems that I have read that as well although I do not remember where, I also believe that the Japanese used them as well. I would think that having a wooden bullet in you that splintered up would be devastating.

I think this has been debunked fairly comprehensively. Both Germany and Japan had wooden bullet blank ammunition and also used wooden bullet ammunition to discharge rifle grenades. The idea in both cases was that the wooden bullet is fragile, and flies to pieces as it leaves the muzzle. Other than at contact or near contact distance perhaps it would not be effective in killing or even wounding a man.

Wooden bullet blank ammunition has been around since the 19th century. I have a wooden bullet blank for the 8x60 Rimmed Kropatschek which is from that early period.

TexasRifleman
July 31, 2007, 12:29 AM
I have an adapter for my BAR that uses these. Shreds the wood for use as a blank. I had one box of the things back in the 80s when I first got the rifle. Have never seen any since.

.cheese.
July 31, 2007, 12:47 AM
I think the Swedes used them as "blanks" They had a device to attach to the end of the barrel to shred the wooden bullets.

well... I don't know about the Swedes, you're probably right.... but yeah, I've heard of this concept before

doesn't seem the best solution, but I guess it works.

Gifted
July 31, 2007, 03:12 AM
Daniel got what I've heard. We've got several threads on here about this.

One thing mentioned was the Germans replacing some rounds in MG belts with wooden bullets, to help save the metal for the bullets. Not sure how practical that would be.

mesomorphcujo
July 31, 2007, 12:12 PM
Yep! Vampires.:evil:

ok41
July 31, 2007, 12:21 PM
My collection includes two boxes marked "U.S. Army .30 Government Training'
chambered for the 30-40 krag. Both boxes are Krag rounds with formed PAPER bullets! Kinda unusual. I guess the progression was to wooden projectiles for uniformity and more "ouch".?:rolleyes:

Ron James
July 31, 2007, 02:44 PM
Folks, wood bullets ( not wood tipped, or part wood) are training rounds. They can not inflict devastating wounds or wounds of any type unless your hand is over the muzzle. if they exit the barrel at all they only travel a very short distance. They are not nor ever been combat rounds. FWIW Wood bullets will not operate any type of automatic weapon system. If used in something like a Garand, the bolt has to be manually operated . Not enough "weight or mass, remember Newton" :). Sportsman Guide recently had some 9MM wood practice rounds. They will function through a 9MM auto but will not operate the slide.

Mannlicher
July 31, 2007, 03:32 PM
These DAG, West German, plastic bullets were used as practice rounds. The case and bullet are blue plastic, the end of the case is metal, and holds a primer.
They are not very loud, and have almost zero recoil. I find them fairly accurate out to about 25 yards.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Mannlicher/dag7.jpg

Carl N. Brown
July 31, 2007, 04:47 PM
My father and his brother fought in WWII in the Pacific.
My father told me that Japanese wooden bullets were
blanks for grenade launching. When the Japanese ran
low on supplies, or were cut off, and were down to next
to nothing, they would stage a suicidial Banzai charge,
and would use the wooden bullet blanks (all they had
left) at bayonet fighting range.

shadowalker
July 31, 2007, 05:02 PM
I remember reading that Germany used wooden bullets in WWII. From my understanding they would create quite a devastating wound

My grandfather was wounded by a German wooden bullet near the end of WWII, others have reported wooden German ammunition as well. I'd imagine it would depend on the type of wood, and velocity on whether or not it would be effective on people.

In his case the reason he lived was a German woman yelled at him so he turned and was hit in the shoulder.

vynx
July 31, 2007, 05:04 PM
I think Sportsmans Guide still sells the wood ammo from time to time.

I'm waiting for the ceramic ammo to go with my ceramic glock.:rolleyes:

S.P.E.C.T.R.E.
July 31, 2007, 05:08 PM
I'm waiting for the ceramic ammo to go with my ceramic glock.


Wow, you must be rich, Glock 7s cost more than I make in two months!

mpmarty
July 31, 2007, 05:14 PM
No, No, No... The Israeli wooden bullet rounds were for grafting trees. The green tips were granny smith, the red tips were Washington Delicious, the maroon tips were Winesaps, and the yellow tips were gravensteins.:evil:

Ron James
July 31, 2007, 09:05 PM
mpmarty, you know, that makes more sense than believing they were used in combat in WWII.

Bwana John
August 1, 2007, 10:40 AM
I know an older gentleman who said he had a brother killed by a wooden bullet in the US Army during a training exercise.

Jim Watson
August 1, 2007, 10:43 AM
The real purpose of the wooden bullet is to give the normal profile to the cartridge so it will feed in a bolt action. Its application is the same as a blank, noise for training and maneuvers.

Cliff47
August 1, 2007, 11:56 AM
I remember reading about an Italian pistol that used ammunition that was so low-powered, the round was made out of wood. Galesi?? In an oddball chambering if memory serves. Made around WWII, and not much after that.

Jim Watson
August 1, 2007, 01:18 PM
I dunno about Italian, but the Danish Schueboe was entered in the US service pistol trials that led up to the 1911. It shot a wood-cored jacketed bullet at high velocity so as to get a .45 calibre in a blowback action.

Ron James
August 1, 2007, 03:33 PM
The 9MM Glisenti used a 124 gr. bullet at 1050 FPS at 308 Lbs of energy. It was only low powered compared to the 9MM Parabellum. Because they had very similar measurements, it was easy to confuse the two and the 9X19 will wreck a Glisenti. I'm sorry Cliff47, but once again there are no combat loads or even civilian loads for a pure wood bullet. They simply don't work nor can you make them work. As far as serious injury from a wood bullet, well a blank will kill if fire close enough to the body (the head, from inches away).

Carl N. Brown
August 1, 2007, 04:32 PM
Military Mausers are designed to feed ammo from the magazine.
Blank ammunition for Mauser and Mauser style bolt actions--
German 98K, Arisaka 38, Springfield 03, Enfield P14 and M17--
would have to have dummy bullets to feed properly. Blank
ammunition would be used in combat as a last resort only,
and would be used up-close and personal, hand-to-hand
combat range.

If I recall correctly, the Glisenti round is basically a
9mm parabelleun case, a truncated cone shaped bullet,
and a reduced charge. Italy also used the standard
9mm is pistol NOT Glisenti, and also made a hot round
for the 1938 Berettea submachine gun headstamped "M38".
An M38 round is hot enough to damage a Glisenti pistol.
The Italian Parabelleum and M38 rounds were loaded with
round nose bullets like the 9 mm Luger. It is possible
that blanks were made for the Glisenti with wooden
bullet shaped plugs, but they were not a combat round.

budbarker57
March 27, 2009, 04:00 AM
I only found out this site existed because I was Googling to see if anyone besides my grandfather, army medic Buddy Wall, had been wounded by a Japanese wooden bullet in WWII. He said they didn't get all of the fragments out because there were so many and he had a huge lump in his leg for a long time. I'd seen the scar and asked him what it was. I don't have a dog in this fight, with regard to arguing, I'm just telling you what I know.

Odd Job
March 27, 2009, 04:22 AM
There is great info about all manner of strange cartridges on the IAA forum. Here are some relevant links:

http://cartridgecollectors.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5270

http://cartridgecollectors.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3342

http://cartridgecollectors.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3439

http://cartridgecollectors.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2819

mugsie
March 27, 2009, 06:56 AM
Wooden bullets are the only things which will stop Pinocchio's gone bad! :neener:

heron
March 27, 2009, 11:01 AM
Special-purpose rounds, for inflicting festering splinter wounds.

Judicator
March 27, 2009, 06:37 PM
I've got several boxes of wooden-bullet ammo for my 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. They're a lot of fun to shoot, very cheap and virtually no recoil.

Deanimator
March 27, 2009, 07:00 PM
grenade launching round
Read sowhere(can't reacall where) that some grenade launchers used wooden bullets. But, I've been wrong before
No, you're correct, about grenade lauching blanks, whether or not in this case.

WardenWolf
March 27, 2009, 07:03 PM
While wooden bullets were primarily used for training rounds, there were a large number of .303 rounds with wooden bases and lead noses. No idea why they were constructed this way, but they were certainly a historical oddball.

Dr. Fresh
March 27, 2009, 07:23 PM
Is there a wood that's hard enough to stay together and actually inflict damage?

If I ever find myself writing a vampire story it could be a cool idea to have some .38s with wood bullets or some such. :D

WardenWolf
March 27, 2009, 07:26 PM
There's ironwood. It's quite dense and strong.

camp_gunner
March 27, 2009, 07:40 PM
In general these are blanks used in machine guns. As to cycling the action, I spent a great weekend chewing up the brush in front of our Vickers position. We shot about 2000 of these during that reneactment. The wood bullet provides the proper feeding surfaces. The Vickers had a blank firing attachment that finished destroying the bullets, but you would not want to be within about 10 feet of the muzzle.

Current military blanks for the machine guns use an extended case with at star crimp blank to form the "bullet". These work quite well in our 1919A1, which is currently set up for 308. We can get through a bunch of belts in no time at all.

I also have examples of this type of blank for Austrian M95s, British 303s, and many others.

Now as to hunting the vampire with these, well if you get close and stick it up it's re**, I'm sure that you will get a response.

25 Pdr
March 28, 2009, 09:31 AM
In the 60s we were issued wooden bullets for training with the British 303 Bren Gun.

They looked like a MK7 but the bullet was wooden and was coloured blue.

The idea was to cycle the Bren in full auto mode.

Don't think it would operate any weapon other than a gas operated one.

As to lethal effect...........During a night training ambush a friend was accidentally hit,it left him with a slight cut to his forehead. Doubt it would have been lethal but I wouldn't like one in the eye.

If you enjoyed reading about "Wood bullet?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!