Please Judge My 7 Yard Shooting…(Several Pics)


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StrikeFire83
July 31, 2007, 12:42 AM
Hey there everybody. I thought on account of the other thread I’d throw my hat in the ring. These targets were shot off hand at 7 yards in fast fire (a little over 1 shot a second) from a Weaver stance. Anyhow, here are the targets. I’ve decided to focus in on 7 yards because it’s the most common self defense range and I want to be as proficient as possible before I move out to 15 yards. Okay, JUDGE AWAY.


1) Glock 17, 50 shots @ 7 yards

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l315/strikefire83/Glock_50Rounds_7Yards12-1-06.jpg



2) CZ-75B, 50 shots @ 7 yards

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l315/strikefire83/CZ7Yards-1.jpg



3) XD-45 Tactical , 50 shots @ 7 yards (Sadly, I sold this gun) :uhoh:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l315/strikefire83/XD_50Rounds_7Yards10-20-06.jpg



And now the revolver that I love but don't shoot so well.

4) Ruger SP-101 2 inch, 30 shots @ 7 yards

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l315/strikefire83/Ruger_30Rounds_7Yards12-1-06.jpg


Okay, well, that's it. Thanks in advance for everyone's input.

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AndyC
July 31, 2007, 01:32 AM
Are you right-handed?

StrikeFire83
July 31, 2007, 01:37 AM
Yes. I am right handed. And your appraisal, sir?

GunNut
July 31, 2007, 01:48 AM
Damn good and way better than I can shoot at this time.

To cure shooting to the left try moving your trigger finger in just a little bit further and pull straight back.

Here are some cures to common shooting problems: http://www.degrata.com/pdf/commonshootingerrors.pdf


I'd say it's almost time to move back a little bit.

Steve

StrikeFire83
July 31, 2007, 02:14 AM
Thanks for the input. I think I'm about to give up on revolver shooting though. :)

finalcut
July 31, 2007, 02:19 AM
Awesome.
I'd say you're a bad person for a BG to get in to a gun fight with.
Keep it up.

bluto
July 31, 2007, 04:09 AM
Well done. Time to move that target out to 15 yards.

usp9
July 31, 2007, 08:46 AM
Good shooting but, head shots are for Hollywood...center of mass, center of mass.., resist the temptation, concentrate, center of mass.

gtmtnbiker98
July 31, 2007, 08:59 AM
Your G17 and CZ75 grouping can "probably" be improved (centered up) with some dry fire practice and a little more trigger finger. Concentrate on placing just the center portion of the first pad of your index finger on that bang switch. You group well but you are not center mass. You are a good shot, definitely with that XD! As for the SP101, well you already answered for yourself on that one. I only hope that the head shots were intended and not from trigger pull.

21-feet is a good combat distance, now try moving back to 30-feet working all the way back to 45-feet and if you can hit that consistent from 15-yards then you are in there. You're a good shot, just need some refinement.

It took me a few years to become proficient in pistol shooting and have yet to master it but I shoot a lot of IDPA to assist in my trek towards mastery.

rantingredneck
July 31, 2007, 09:15 AM
I wouldn't want you shooting at me!

As others have said: More practice with the revolver (very different trigger than the Glock or XD. More triggerfinger to line up COM.

FuzzyBunny
July 31, 2007, 09:40 AM
I agree, time to move the target back and repost.

Your errors will be more defined and clear. Accurate first and speed later.

Nice shooting though!

When you can do that at 100 yds you may progress to the "snatch the pebble from my hand" phase.


FuzzyBunny

BTW: that looks like the groups my mini 14 gets at 3 yards.

jwr_747
July 31, 2007, 12:09 PM
" head shots are for Hollywood" don't agree,as Jeff Cooper taught,2 in the chest and 2 in the head. to much body armor out there these days. jwr

GRIZ22
July 31, 2007, 12:10 PM
These targets were shot off hand at 7 yards in fast fire (a little over 1 shot a second) from a Weaver stance.

To really see how you shoot take your time don't "1 rd a second". Speed will come over time. Concentrate on your technique not speed.

AndyC
July 31, 2007, 02:09 PM
Yes. I am right handed. And your appraisal, sir?
Decent shooting for that sort of speed - I think you'll do well ;)

Reason I asked about the right-hand is because - assuming your sights are set correctly - you're doing what I used to do when shooting fast, and that is a very slight nudge against the right-hand edge of the trigger, pushing the shots slightly left. It's not really a big deal, but it starts to count if you need to pop off a quick yet accurate shot at a futher distance.

Try it with an unloaded pistol - look down on it from above and see if the muzzle is being tapped to the left as you tap the trigger. You have to get your trigger-finger onto the face of the trigger so that it's being pulled straight back, not at an angle.

MrBorland
July 31, 2007, 02:29 PM
For defensive shooting, I agree with others - those are certainly fine groups and I wouldn't want to be the BG!

If you're wanting opinions as to how good a shot you are in general, though, I'd have to agree with Grizz22 and suggest you shoot 10-shot groups slowly and deliberately, using a bullseye target. Your 50-shot groups look to be around 3-4", maybe bigger. They look nice and tight because 50 rounds eventually blew a hole through the large center, but a 10-shot group of the same size wouldn't look nearly as nice. IMO, a good shot, using iron sights, shooting offhand and deliberately, ought to be able to shoot a sub-1" group at 7yds, and 3-3.5" at 25yds. Even better if you can do it shooting DA with your revolver!

AndyC
July 31, 2007, 02:32 PM
Use a target-patch - those little round stickers about an inch in diameter - and see if you can hit it dead-centre at 7 yards without breaking the outer-edge ;)

michiganfan
July 31, 2007, 07:46 PM
Nice shooting. Me on a good day.

Mad Magyar
July 31, 2007, 08:14 PM
I'm sure the BG got the message....Being a point-shooter for defensive purposes, I get criticized all the time for not having the super-tight pattern...
Nice going.....:)

browningguy
July 31, 2007, 09:56 PM
Good shooting, and keep practising those head shots, you don't always get a center of mass to shoot at.

quickcanary
July 31, 2007, 10:09 PM
Nice. Slow down a bit and I'm betting you could put all 30 in the black with the SP-101.

Of course, in a SD situation there's no opportunity to slow down -- but even under those circumstances I wouldn't want to be the guy looking at the end of your muzzle.

gezzer
July 31, 2007, 11:55 PM
Yep, he's dead Great shooting!!!!

wooderson
August 1, 2007, 01:37 AM
re: trigger finger - I seem to pull left more when I have too much trigger finger (too far in toward the knuckle) rather than too little (as others have suggested moving your finger in) - try both ways, it may depend on how big your paws are.

StrikeFire83
August 1, 2007, 03:38 AM
Thanks to everyone for their input. I think I'll move back to 15 yards in a couple months.

I left the Ruger revolver in Texas, though. Couldn't bring myself to bring along a gun I cannot shot well with ammo that costs a whole lot more.

It'll just stay with my dad for the time being.

pbonebright
August 1, 2007, 04:30 AM
+1 wooderson

BTW nice shooting

If your trigger has much travel after the release, your groups may tend to the opposite side of where your trigger finger is pulling. i.e. your shots are going slightly left, your trigger finger may be tugging the gun right and when it releases it snaps left as the bullet leaves the barrel. Adjustable or 'White' trigger stop may help, or adjust your finger position on the trigger.

MinnMooney
August 2, 2007, 12:59 AM
That appears to be some pretty good shootin'. I'm going to try the same thing tomorrow at 7, 15 and 25 yds. except I'll only be punching about 10 holes per gun per distance. That's expensive enough for me.
The guns will be a Kahr P9, SA-XD 45 Tactical, Ruger GP-100, Charter Arms 'Undercover' & an old - but little used - 8 shot wheel gun in .22 rimfire.
I'll post the results no matter how bad I do.

Black Adder LXX
August 2, 2007, 09:10 PM
You shoot better than me...

CiscoKid
August 3, 2007, 12:44 PM
I agree with Grizz22, practice the proper technique slower at first, then speed will come. I just recently graduated from Oklahoma's police academy and in all areas of training they stressed smooth is fast...that is, take out the superfluous movement and your time naturally gets better. Damn good shooting any how!

Ian B. Henley
August 4, 2007, 04:07 AM
I'm a new member to this forum. I don't usually spend that much time on the internet, or in chatrooms, &c. I think you're doing pretty damn good, even with your DA. Remember, wheel guns have been around for a long time, and are kinda like the good ol' wooden baseball bat as compared to the lighter and easier to use aluminum bat. If you start out with the aluminum bats, anything heavier, or more wieldy can pull you off your game and start giving you second thoughts about your skills and capabilities. Did you learn your basic pistol marksmanship with autos, and semis; or, did you learn your basics with some type of relvolver? You don't have to answer, just stick to the wooden bat for the basics (i.e., stick with the six-shooter), because improving your skills with your SP will improve your skills with everything else - trust me.

By the way - I agree with some of the others, it's time for you to move your targets back. Spend some more time with your revolver at 7M. Now, even though I'm not a doctor, here's my professional advice: take two aspirin, drink plenty of water, (especially if it's mixed with your favorite 'hard' adult beverage, and poured over ice), and call me in the morning.

P.S. I'm really glad I'm not the BG standing in front of you, while you're firing any one of your pistols!

Ian B. Henley
August 4, 2007, 04:11 AM
Oops! I posted this same thread twice. I told you I was a rookie!

.357 magnum
August 4, 2007, 04:35 PM
Excellent shooting:eek: I also gave up on revolvers over a year ago. I just cannot shoot them with the same accuracy as a semi-auto. I have two Springfield XD's .45acp [one tactical and one service model] I have found them to be very accurate and reliable. You need to go get yourself another XD, they are really fine guns. Welcome Ian!:) You will enjoy this site as there are a lot of really good and informative people on it:)

The Best to All!

Frank

Shipwreck
August 5, 2007, 12:06 PM
That is real good - but U knew that. You're just showing off :neener:

Geno
August 5, 2007, 12:15 PM
Well, you can cover my back any day, and I'd feel darned safe!

PrimalFuture
August 7, 2007, 07:10 AM
I say you try the following:

1. Holster your weapon;
2. Leave the range;
3. Run as fast as you can around the outside of the range, (or anything else to get your heart rate going and your ADRENALINE flowing);
4. Return to the range;
5. Without stopping to catch your breath or wait for your heart to slow down, run a 2+1 drill, reload, and run another 2+1 drill.

This will give you a better idea of how you might shoot under stress, which is a whole lot different than slowly popping rounds off and trying to compare that to real life situations. Slow practice is great because it helps you develop proper technique and muscle memory, but don't make the mistake of confusing what its like to slowly pop off rounds with what its like to defend yourself. Most likely, you will be amped, somewhat shaky, and in a bit of a fog.

Work on getting back to center of mass while shooting slow, then start adding some physical/mental stress to your practice.

Other than exercise to pump up your adrenaline, try having a range buddy put a couple of dummy rounds in your magazine (without telling you where they are). When you encounter a dummy, your job is to clear it, and get back to shooting.

Once you can do this, find a range that has areas where you can move around while shooting. Start running two shot drills. In between shots, MOVE, (preferably from side to side rather than forward and back). Once you get comfortable with this, throw the dummy rounds back into the mix. While you are clearing your jam, you must be moving.

You can also try drills where you begin in the 7 foot range, unholster, fire two shots on target, move to cover and resume firing.

gtmtnbiker98
August 7, 2007, 08:12 AM
Or just shoot an IDPA or USPSA match and that will tell you how you compare. Shotting at static targets is nothing more than shooting at static targets. Sorry, but combat and/or defensive pistol shooting will not involve BG's standing there motionless waiting for you to shoot them.

At least IDPA requires some movement on the shooters part and problem solving given the proper scenario. The stress comes from the buzzer and knowing that you're being timed. As for USPSA, you have swinging targets, metal reactive targets, and flat out moving targets on wire. If you want to know your shooting potential, go and shoot a couple of matches. Chances arre, you will be humbled the first couple of times bot at least you will learn from a different perspective.

Static shooting is not an accurate gauge of real world performance when the SHTF! Competition shooting will also test your equipment to see just how reliable it is.

As previously stated, nice shooting but try something different.

ryan b
August 7, 2007, 11:38 AM
As a firearm instructor i see 1 major thing the groups are all to the left. this is a simple problem to fix move the trigger finger more of the finger if right handed less if your are left. was any of the shooting done with the week hand? the groups are good at seven but if you move out to the 15 you will be shooting in the 8 and 9 not the 9 and 10 rings. I recommend shooting the course of fire with both hands because if your primary arm is injured you will have to go week handed

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