Response to Ebay banning gun related items


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hso
July 31, 2007, 03:00 PM
As you may be aware eBay plans to prohibit gun parts sales and auctions by mid August. Having an organization as large and widely viewed as ebay including gun parts helps keep firearms ownership from seeming unusual or abnormal. Having them drop gunparts helps remove it from the public eye as something normal. This then becomes a hearts and minds campaign to help keep the ownership of firearms before the public as being as normal as muscle cars and china collecting.

An email campaign would be a quick and easy response. Keep it short and straightforward without any poison or criticism of the quality of ebay products. Something like this (http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3593646&postcount=9) from Thefumegator is nearly perfect. Be sure to point out that ebay could just as easily ban automobiles and auto parts, beer, wine and liquor related goods using their same reasoning.

Make your voice head to Mr Halprin at mhalprin@eBay.com

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SWMAN
July 31, 2007, 03:08 PM
Why? Just don't use ebay anymore. Sell gun related products on sites that welcome the business.:confused:

tydephan
July 31, 2007, 03:20 PM
Why?

Wow. Not really the proper sentiment for the "Activism" forum...

Why fight proposed legislation?
Why fight anything that doesn't effect me directly?

This effects a lot of people. Ebay is one of the largest online marketplaces and a lot of people depend on it for income. Massive site traffic makes selling an item more likely. "Gun-specific" auction sites see no where near the traffic that ebay does.

The new policy, which the head dude attributes to the Virginia Tech massacre, is absolute hogwash. It will hurt many of our brethren who sell parts, etc. via Ebay.

I don't like ebay either, but I'll be damned if I go gentle into that good night...

Thanks hso. Email on the way to Mr. Halprin.

The Law
July 31, 2007, 03:25 PM
Here's my response from Ebay:

Dear [the law],

Thank you for your recent email to Matt Halprin in regard to changes to
our Firearms, Weapons and Knives policy. He has asked that I review
your email and respond on his behalf.

Let me start by saying that I understand that this is a very
frustrating situation. Before choosing to discontinue use of your eBay and
PayPal accounts I hope that you would allow me the opportunity to explain
why we have chosen to amend our policy.

Like the rest of the nation, eBay was deeply saddened and shocked by
the events at Virginia Tech and we felt that it was not only appropriate,
but necessary, to revisit our related policies. While nothing purchased
on our site was illegal in any way, we felt compelled to ask ourselves
some tough questions and ensure we do everything possible to provide a
safe and trusted marketplace. After careful consideration, we decided
to expand the scope of our existing policy to specifically restrict any
part that is required for the firing of a gun.

We have always valued an open and transparent marketplace; if items are
legal to buy and sell in an unrestricted manner we allow them on our
site. However, there are some items that while legal, may not be safe
for our marketplace. In these instances, our applicable policies go
beyond the law to ensure that our marketplace is safe.

After careful consideration our executives and our Trust and Safety
team determined, that while legal, any item required to fire a gun has no
place on eBay. All of our policies are under constant review. As the
Internet and the way our communities use the Internet evolves, our
policies and our marketplace must evolve with it. We determined that
this policy change was in the best interest of promoting a safe
marketplace for all members.

I understand your frustration regarding this matter and apologize for
the inconvenience it caused you.

Sincerely,

Terri
Office of the President

:cuss::banghead:

cpaspr
July 31, 2007, 03:31 PM
SWMAN -
Why? Just don't use ebay anymore. Sell gun related products on sites that welcome the business.

Because, like it or not, ebay is the 900# gorilla when it comes to auction sites. Many of us have purchased or sold stuff there, for better prices (both buying and selling) than we can get on other sites. It's simply a matter of exposure. Just look at the buy/sell sections of this forum and see how often items that are already priced to sell quickly are marked down later by their sellers, simply because not many potential buyers are seeing their items and the seller perceives low activity to mean "priced too high".

Also, one of the benefits to ebay is that often sellers and buyers don't actually realize, or care, what the value of the item truly is. I've picked up mags for my pistols for good prices by knowing what they were worth. I've let others go when the other bidders got caught up in the bidding and jacked the bids way beyond OEM prices (and they were currently available from Sig at the time, so it wasn't a shortage question). Ditto on brass. Know what it's worth, bid accordingly and know when to stop.

Superpsy
July 31, 2007, 04:19 PM
Email sent...I'll post the response.

jimmylove
July 31, 2007, 04:19 PM
Email sent.

Colt
July 31, 2007, 04:23 PM
I sent an email, too.

I told them I'd be closing my ebay and paypal accounts, and that I'd use a combination of Craigslist and firearms auction sites going forward.

They may be the 900# gorilla, but they're not the only game in town.

dust_101
July 31, 2007, 04:32 PM
Sorry folks, but that response given to The Law is the canned response being given to everybody. The "Office of the President" is a small group of folks in Colorado who answer emails directed to the higher-ups, especially in situations like this.

hso
July 31, 2007, 04:58 PM
The more they hear from us, the more we balance out the folks that complained about "those awful guns on ebay". The more they hear from us the more narrowly they may define inappropriate firearms related material. And, of course, we're not going to get personal responses from the management. This is a numbers game and the more numbers they see complaining about this the better.

We had no idea that they were going to do this and therefore had no idea we needed to do anything. This will be our only opportunity to mitigate the damage this can do to how people view firearms ownership through the lens of Ebay. How can we complain about being marginalized if we don't resist events that move us out of the mainstream view of America?

AntiqueCollector
July 31, 2007, 05:29 PM
Email sent, and answer recieved. It's the same form letter they're sending to everyone who emails that guy...

Superpsy
July 31, 2007, 05:33 PM
Email sent, and answer recieved. It's the same form letter they're sending to everyone who emails that guy...
__________________


ditto

mtnbkr
July 31, 2007, 05:43 PM
I sent an email, but haven't received anything back yet. How quick are the responses coming?

Chris

Superpsy
July 31, 2007, 05:49 PM
eh...an hour or so...

jimmylove
July 31, 2007, 05:58 PM
Got the same response. I am going to cancel my ebay account now.

fixyurgun
July 31, 2007, 06:01 PM
OK here's my question shold i point out to them that they're accomplises in breaking federal firearms laws by allowing the sale of barelled receivers? I found 3 active auctions in less than 15 mins. one that shows a mauser receiver they did say they cut the receivers off before shipping. jim

mpmarty
July 31, 2007, 06:06 PM
mpatrovsky (that’s me) has now closed his Ebay account due to your PC stupidity regarding “bullet tips” you will ban a thing you are too uneducated to even properly describe. As has been said before, the cars you sell kill more people, damage the environment and are much more dangerous than empty pistol shell casings (brass). You people are just too unreal to believe.

PS, my brokerage account has been instructed to dump your stock if it ever again reaches $35.00 where I bought it some time ago.

:banghead:

Old Fuff
July 31, 2007, 06:49 PM
J&G Sales is Prescott, AZ posted the following message to their customers:

Dear J&G Customer,

Also, for years gun enthusiasts have bought and sold gun parts on eBay, J&G included. However eBay has announced that starting mid-August they will no longer allow gun parts to be sold through their website. We encourage you to contact Matt Halpin of eBay who is responsible for this decision at mhalprin@eBay.com. Please be respectful and considerate in your messages. Ask them to review this decision since it goes far beyond any state or federal laws.

We plan to move our auctions for gun parts to www.gunbroker.com and would encourage you to check them out. In the meantime, we will be finishing up several auctions on eBay in the next week for barrels, bullets, brass and magazines, etc. Be sure to check out the deals here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZjgsalesltd

-----------------------------------------------------------
Join with other gun owners and let your voice be heard, check out groups such as the NRA. Click here to see about joining:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp?CampaignID=XS005080.

Also look at groups such as Gunowners of America at http://www.gunowners.org and JPFO at http://www.jpfo.org, and the Assembly of Sportsmens Caucuses at http://www.statesportsmenslink.org/

patentmike
July 31, 2007, 07:12 PM
OK here's my question shold i point out to them that they're accomplises in breaking federal firearms laws by allowing the sale of barelled receivers? I found 3 active auctions in less than 15 mins. one that shows a mauser receiver they did say they cut the receivers off before shipping.

What if it turns out to be an in-state purchase? or FFL to FFL? The sales could be legal. The buyer and seller should be responsible for keeping their own transaction legal, not ebay.

Maybe fear of inadvertently violating gun laws is part of their motivation.

email sent

Cosmoline
July 31, 2007, 07:47 PM
I did what everyone else should do who hasn't already--CLOSE YOUR ACCOUNT! It's simple and effective. I then wrote a letter to this bozo telling him my former userid and why I terminated the account.

Here's how to end your account:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/account/closing-account.html#permanently

CajunTim
July 31, 2007, 09:24 PM
Account closed.

Should we boycott sites/businesses that continue to sell on ebay that doesnt close their stores? Start a form letter out to them? I'm in.

hso
July 31, 2007, 09:32 PM
CajunTim,
That's a pretty good idea. Much like we'd start a letter writing campaign to advertisers in a paper or magazine that has taken a gun-prohibitionist stance.

We could use the same reasonable voice we should be using with Ebay. Just change it around to, "I can't support a company that puts money into a company that makes these decisions...". Perhaps they will be able to bring pressure to bear on Ebay from a different direction while we push from ours.

bensdad
July 31, 2007, 09:52 PM
+1 to CajunTim.

ravnew
July 31, 2007, 09:55 PM
E-mail sent!

fatelk
July 31, 2007, 10:03 PM
email sent


I realize that our emails, even if read, will ultimately have no affect beyond making us feel better. I do believe that eBay truly is anti-gun, and this is the future we are looking at with corporations. Ebay has been good for us and did help us through a bad time, but now I am done. Everyone I know will hear what I think of ebay.

bensdad
July 31, 2007, 10:11 PM
E-mail sent.

I saw an ad for Weight Watchers on one of the Ebay pages. It also looks like they have a deal with Mastercard. Should these guys be contacted?

wcwhitey
July 31, 2007, 10:57 PM
E-Mail sent.

First Shirt
July 31, 2007, 11:20 PM
That's too bad, I've bought some really neat stuff on ebay, and saved a bunch of money doing it. Well, at least The Boss won't be complaining about "all that junk you buy on ebay" anymore.

Email sent, account closed (ebay and paypal)

General Geoff
August 1, 2007, 12:06 AM
here's my email:

I've had an eBay account for several years, under the name "shadowflareindustries". I have 100% feedback, and I've more or less been satisfied with your website and the service it provides. However, I cannot abide by the blatant political pandering that your new firearms policy represents. I've closed my account, and am telling all of my friends and relatives to do the same. I will not do business with an organization that claims to market everything, but bans the sale of firearms and firearms parts/accessories because of a nonexistent safety issue. Good day.

brentn
August 1, 2007, 12:16 AM
What a piss-off... You send an email that you thought out long and hard and the guy is sending out 'automated responses'...
Nice customer service.
Obviously they have been overwhelmed with opposition of the decision and are not going to change their minds. Pretty sure that this is the case becuase of the automated response.

It would be funny if so many people dropped thier accounts because of this decision that enough of the ebay execs would notice, and then have a little chat with mr halprin.

sam59
August 1, 2007, 12:28 AM
First off I am glad to see many here understand the magnitude of the Ebay presence and dont just spout off like a raving lunatic. I just posted the form letter response and Halprin's e-mail on the Ebay message board. There appears to be just as much disgust on the Ebay boards. Thats good news I guess.

fmnnc
August 1, 2007, 01:15 AM
Here is what I sent them:

Mr. Halprin,

I’ve recently learned about a decision by “your company” to restrict the sale of ALL parts for firearms, weapons, and knives. Part of your canned response to others is “we have always valued an open and transparent marketplace; if items are legal to buy and sell in an unrestricted manner we allow them on our site. However, there are some items that while legal, may not be safe for our marketplace. In these instances, our applicable policies go beyond the law to ensure that our marketplace is safe.”

How can a company so innovative be so narrow minded? I’ve seen students in school stabbed with a pencil. We did not ban pencils in schools; we simply dealt with those causing the problem. Am I to assume that any item that could possibly be used as a weapon or part thereof will now be banned from being sold on eBay? I would ask you to reconsider. While small, the only recourse I would have is to consider not doing business with eBay and Pay Pal as well as inform previous and potential sellers as to why I will no longer be doing business with them via eBay, if this policy is implemented. And yes, most sellers have websites where the same items can be purchased directly. Again, I would like to see you reconsider as your company seems to have the greatest to loose. Lastly, please do me the courtesy of not replying with the same canned answer you have sent others, even if it means not replying at all.

Regretfully,


Frank Matthews
Rocky Mount, NC
eBay member since August 2001
83 transactions with a feedback rating of 100


I plan to drop my accounts and sell items via other venues. If I see something on eBay, most of the largers sellers have a seperate website to do business. It probably won't amount to a drop in the bucket to eBay but I refuse to sit by and take this crap from them. I'll decide what is safe or not safe! Venting over...now I fell better! :)

GlowinPontiac
August 1, 2007, 01:26 AM
Why was my post just deleted?

hso
August 1, 2007, 01:36 AM
Not deleted, moved, like several others, to the General thread on Ebay as a better fit. General discussion of a topic and complaints aren't part of the Activism threads. When there's a parallel thread in General the generalized posts may get moved there or deleted. I thought you'd rather it be moved than lost. See the "How this works" stickie at the top of Activism for more details.

mata777
August 1, 2007, 03:07 AM
Email sent.

Old Poet
August 1, 2007, 06:07 AM
Sent email yesterday, got canned reply, cancelled eBay and PayPal accounts.

As far as their stock goes, the market's taking a general hit, so it's hard to say about individual stocks right now

countertop
August 1, 2007, 12:39 PM
OK,

Before canceling my pay pal account, I'm just wondering if there are any legitimate competitors to Pay Pal which I can transfer my business to.

WayneConrad
August 1, 2007, 12:52 PM
Dear Mr Halprin,

I've just learned of eBay's new "no gun parts" policy. I am quite
disappointed. Why do you still allow car parts? Cars are involved in
many more deaths than guns.

A gun-part ban beyond what is necessary for you to conduct lawful
business is prejudicial and offensive. I urge you to reconsider this
policy.

Best Regards,
Wayne Conrad

mpmarty
August 1, 2007, 12:55 PM
Bidpay!

mtnbkr
August 1, 2007, 01:12 PM
Before canceling my pay pal account, I'm just wondering if there are any legitimate competitors to Pay Pal which I can transfer my business to.

I think Google has a service, but with most folks using Paypal, it's not much of a competitor.

Chris

Sabian576
August 1, 2007, 02:06 PM
Email sent...

Account Closed...

spencerhut
August 1, 2007, 02:36 PM
Complaint e-mail sent, no response. :banghead:
My 100% positive feedback (very old) ebay account closed
PayPal account closed
ebay stock sold

callgood
August 1, 2007, 03:28 PM
If you use Ebay to sell items and are going to close it, tell them you sent the proceeds of the last sale prior to closing to the NRA-ILA. :)

cwolfs69
August 1, 2007, 03:55 PM
dear mr halprin,
obviously you hve not thought out your actions or your response to the many emails i am sure you have gotten from gun advocates. you seem to indicate that the gun parts that you and others sell are the cause of gun related crime. that is a completely undefendable view. the cause of gun related crime is obviously criminals who use guns. when legal means of obtaining gun parts, ammunition etc go away they do not stop using guns, they just switch to, if not already using, illegal means of obtaining the items they want. they only people who suffer from those actions are the law abiding who do often times prevent or lesson the effeects of crime commited by the criminals. if you yourself havs it against owning guns say so. dont change your policies to the detriment of gun owners and use "safer" as a lame excuse. i also, along with thousands if not millions will not be using ebay again unless this policy is reversed.

thank you

this is the email that i sent ot ebay and will show response when received.

Matt King
August 1, 2007, 05:05 PM
I have never been registered with ebay, so will sending them a letter expressing my disappointment be effective?

hso
August 2, 2007, 12:01 AM
Every voice, regardless of affiliation with Ebay, carries weight by adding numbers balancing out the gun prohibitionists.

sandy4570
August 2, 2007, 12:19 AM
e-mail send but no reply yet.

atek3
August 2, 2007, 02:41 AM
email sent... I hate those anti-gun jerks.

skinnyguy
August 2, 2007, 03:22 AM
I posted my email on the general thread here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3591647&postcount=34). I've not yet received a reply back, so it's going out to Halprin's email rather than thru their comments link. When I get the canned response, I know EXACTLY what I'm going to tell them in my reply, but it's not High Road. Suffice to say bye-bye eBay and PayPal.

Matt King, sure it would be, all you have to do is send a message saying there were several items you were wanting to purchase, but doggone it, you seen the firearms policy and said rats, gotta go some where else, what a pain, but I'm sure the store will appreciate the extra money, because it sure was worth it for you to NOT support eBay's idioc............. decision.

achildofthesky
August 2, 2007, 10:55 AM
I've sold a fair bit of spare brass to reloaders in the past year. Guess that is about to change. I will try doing it here to guage interest and if the mod's allow it in the classified section.

Patty

baz
August 2, 2007, 11:00 AM
Here's part of what I sent via email (I'm excising some of what I wrote that would identify who I am):That you would punish what are probably thousands of decent, law abiding, people, for the act of one deranged person shows a mind of incredibly shrinking proportions. What were you thinking? Do you really believe that this action makes anyone safer? If you do, if you really do, then you seriously naive.

No, what I think this is about is either fear of litigation, or an attempt to disassociate Ebay from a group of law abiding Americans whose culture you abhor. In either case, your action is despicable, because it is dishonest. I would be just as angry had you said "The VT incident has made us aware of how many people buy and sell firearms related materials on Ebay. While legal, we are opposed to the gun culture in this country and have decided that we will not allow Ebay to be used by these people." I'd be angry, but I would appreciate your honesty.

It is a free country, and you are free to to embrace whatever policies you wish regarding firearms, just as I am free to take my business elsewhere.

DeltaGunner
August 2, 2007, 11:14 AM
E-mail sent will post reply....... if they have the cods to bother.............

dust_101
August 2, 2007, 11:34 AM
Posted this on the other thread...

---
....Got a response from eBay... they CALLED.

Think the poor girl read from the same script the folks emailing are doing, but at least I found out the change will take effect on August 12th, and as of the 13th they will start pulling auctions.
---

As well, sent the same email from my personal account, wife's personal account, in-laws personal accounts, and the above ones are closed (ebay & paypal - never trusted paypal anyways)

JaxNovice
August 2, 2007, 12:15 PM
Its their business and they can do whatever they want with it. If you have a problem buy a few shares and show up at the annual meeting.

Matt King
August 2, 2007, 12:25 PM
E-mail Sent, awaiting the canned reply.

ilcylic
August 2, 2007, 01:12 PM
I'll send an email telling them that not only am I personally not going to use their services anymore, I'm going to steer every corporate client I get who wants to set up an e-commerce presence to their competition as well.

Bluehawk
August 2, 2007, 01:28 PM
How agout getting Mr Halpins phone number and we all start a phone campaign??
If he's so worried about parts that fire a gun have them simply not allow the sale of firing pins!!!!!

LubeckTech
August 2, 2007, 01:44 PM
EBay's position may well be one of trying to limit their exopsure to litigation over such items if that is the case then "if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen"!!! If they are not willing to assume the risk of litigatgion OR if they are doing it out of a misguided sense of morality it is time for them to get out of business all together. In either case a VERY small fraction of the stuff they sell will be used for no good and there will always be the risk of legal problems - that's a part of life and it happens. This may however be an opportunity for someone like Gunowners of America or another pro-gun organization to start an auction service and use the proceeds to support the 2nd ammendment. Maybe even proceed to general merchandise like Ebay to an extent that in 10 years some one asks about Ebay the reply will be Ewho??

Cosmoline
August 2, 2007, 01:57 PM
Its their business and they can do whatever they want with it.

Sure, and I can cancel my membership and tell them to go to the hot place. What's the point of your post?

fletcher
August 2, 2007, 02:51 PM
Here's what I got today:

Dear [Fletcher],

Thank you for your recent email to Matt Halprin in regard to changes to
our Firearms, Weapons and Knives policy. He has asked that I review your
email and respond on his behalf.

As you are aware, our executives and our Trust and Safety team
determined that any item required to fire a gun has no place on eBay.
This policy will come into effect in mid-August.

I understand that you might disagree with the details of certain eBay
guidelines. eBay values your opinion, and we would be happy to hear any
suggestions you have.

To make a suggestion, simply follow these steps:

1. Go to:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/newtoebay/suggest.html

2. Click the "Send us your suggestion to improve the eBay site" link.
You may be asked to sign in.
3. Write your message explaining your suggestion and then click the
"Send" button.

Once you've sent in your suggestion, we will send it to the appropriate
personnel for review. We appreciate the time you've taken to write to us
and your contribution to eBay.

I understand your frustration regarding this matter and apologize for
the inconvenience it caused you.

Sincerely,

Terri
Office of the President


I told them if I received a form letter that resembled the one everyone else got (pasted form response), I would cancel my account. They sent me another one :p

So... following what was mentioned in their response, here's what I submitted through their online recommendation thinger:

I would like to voice my concern over your change in policy concerning firearm components. The justifications provided for this change center around safety, which does not seem very logical for this online community.

Components alone are no cause for alarm, can not injure anyone, and are (as mentioned by eBay) not illegal. Replacement parts and accessories for firearms can be traded by any retail or online store, for they are perfectly legal, and there is an enormous market for them. It strikes me as odd that a leader in business such as eBay would choose to close markets.

It is very unwise from a business standpoint to push away many thousands of users, millions of auctions, and their corresponding revenue for the sake of political correctness.

I sincerely hope you reconsider this policy,
--
Fletcher

R127
August 2, 2007, 02:57 PM
I don't use eBay often and never for guns but I will cancel over this and have told them as much.

S.P.E.C.T.R.E.
August 2, 2007, 03:08 PM
Probably won't cancel my eBay account, but I'm definitely going to be spending a lot more time on Gunbroker.

Cosmoline
August 2, 2007, 03:19 PM
Come on, CANCEL! It's the only way to spank them over this. It tells them people aren't just mad, they're mad enough to terminate memberships, which on ebay means losing your feedback rating. A complaint is easy to write, but ending a long membership isn't. And that's exactly why we should all do it.

bender
August 2, 2007, 03:25 PM
I also sent an email, and got a canned response like everyone else. I will close my account, and my paypal account, like I told them.

I will miss getting rare & obscure LP records (the vinyl things) though. If I browse ebay in the future, and find something I have to have, I guess I'll get a friend to bid on it for me...

jr45
August 2, 2007, 04:19 PM
Bill Cobb, President of eBay North America, has invited anyone who wants to voice their concerns at the next town hall meeting 15 Aug 07. Link below.

http://pages.ebay.com/townhall/?ssPageName=CMDV:AB

LubeckTech
August 2, 2007, 04:52 PM
Are there any equivalent sites to Ebay? Isn't it strange that you can buy all the archery equipment you want on Ebay and they don't seem to want to ban that?

Matt King
August 2, 2007, 05:22 PM
I still haven't received a response from them. Perhaps this is because they have received so much feedback? Just a thought.

countertop
August 2, 2007, 05:58 PM
I think Google has a service, but with most folks using Paypal, it's not much of a competitor.

Thanks Chris!

fmnnc
August 2, 2007, 10:54 PM
Here is what I received:

Thank you for your recent email to Matt Halprin in regard to changes to
our Firearms, Weapons and Knives policy. He has asked that I review your email and respond on his behalf.

As you are aware, our executives and our Trust and Safety team
determined that any item required to fire a gun has no place on eBay.
This policy will take effect in mid-August.

I understand that you might disagree with the details of certain eBay
guidelines. eBay values your opinion, and we would be happy to hear any
suggestions you have.

To make a suggestion, simply follow these steps:

1. Go to:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/newtoebay/suggest.html

2. Click the "Send us your suggestion to improve the eBay site" link.
You may be asked to sign in.
3. Write your message explaining your suggestion and then click the
"Send" button.

Once you've sent in your suggestion, we will send it to the appropriate
personnel for review. We appreciate the time you've taken to write to us and your contribution to eBay.

I understand your frustration regarding this matter and apologize for
the inconvenience it caused you.

Sincerely,

Terri
Office of the President


Sure looks familiar

GnL
August 2, 2007, 11:07 PM
I canceled my account, e-mailed the "Department of Trust & Safety"(ha), and received the same canned reply. Maybe they didn't like my tone. I wasn't very High Road with them. Screw 'em.

sdj
August 2, 2007, 11:30 PM
Email sent. Included the quote from "ky_man's" signature, for good measure. :-)

jpr9954
August 2, 2007, 11:39 PM
Matt Halprin is merely a big-titled go-fer. I say start writing those that matter at eBay starting with the Board of Directors as well as complaining to Investor Relations. Here are the bio's of the board members taken from eBay's Investor Relations:

Directors Continuing in Office Until the 2007 Annual Meeting
Philippe Bourguignon has served as a director of eBay since December 1999. Mr. Bourguignon has been Vice Chairman of Revolution Resorts, a division of Revolution LLC, a company focused on health, living, and resort investments and operations, since January 2006. From April 2004 to January 2006, Mr. Bourguignon served as Chairman of Aegis Media France, a media communications and market research company. From September 2003 to March 2004, Mr. Bourguignon was Co-Chief Executive Officer of The World Economic Forum (The DAVOS Forum). From August 2003 to October 2003, Mr. Bourguignon served as Managing Director of The World Economic Forum. From April 1997 to January 2003, Mr. Bourguignon served as Chairman of the Board of Club Méditerranée S.A., a resort operator. Prior to his appointment at Club Méditerranée S.A., Mr. Bourguignon was Chief Executive Officer of Euro Disney S.A., the parent company of Disneyland Paris, since 1993, and Executive Vice President of The Walt Disney Company (Europe) S.A., since October 1996. Mr. Bourguignon was named President of Euro Disney in 1992, a post he held through April 1993. He joined The Walt Disney Company in 1988 as head of Real Estate development. Mr. Bourguignon holds a Masters Degree in Economics at the University of Aix-en-Provence and holds a post-graduate diploma from the Institut d'Administration des Enterprises (IAE) in Paris.

Thomas J. Tierney has served as a director of eBay since March 2003. Mr. Tierney is the founder of The Bridgespan Group, a non-profit consulting firm serving the non-profit sector, and has been its Chairman of the Board since late 1999. Prior to founding Bridgespan, Mr. Tierney served as Chief Executive Officer of Bain & Company, a consulting firm, from June 1992 to January 2000. Mr. Tierney holds a B.A. degree in Economics from the University of California at Davis and an M.B.A. degree with distinction from the Harvard Business School. Mr. Tierney is the co-author of a book about organization and strategy called Aligning the Stars.

Margaret C. Whitman serves eBay as President and Chief Executive Officer. She has served in that capacity since February 1998 and as a director since March 1998. From January 1997 to February 1998, she was General Manager of the Preschool Division of Hasbro Inc., a toy company. From February 1995 to December 1996, Ms. Whitman was employed by FTD, Inc., a floral products company, most recently as President, Chief Executive Officer and a director. From October 1992 to February 1995, Ms. Whitman was employed by The Stride Rite Corporation, a footwear company, in various capacities, including President, Stride Rite Children's Group and Executive Vice President, Product Development, Marketing & Merchandising, Keds Division. From May 1989 to October 1992, Ms. Whitman was employed by The Walt Disney Company, an entertainment company, most recently as Senior Vice President, Marketing, Disney Consumer Products. Before joining Disney, Ms. Whitman was at Bain & Co., a consulting firm, most recently as a Vice President. Ms. Whitman also serves on the board of directors of The Procter & Gamble Company and DreamWorks Animation SKG, Inc. Ms. Whitman holds an A.B. degree in Economics from Princeton University and an M.B.A. degree from the Harvard Business School.

Side note here - Meg is reputed to be a big backer of Mitt Romney. Time to tell Mitt how he can earn his spurs with the gun rights community.

Directors Continuing in Office Until the 2008 Annual Meeting
Fred D. Anderson has served as a director of eBay since July 2003. Mr. Anderson has been a Managing Director of Elevation Partners, a private equity firm focused on the media and entertainment industry, since July 2004. From March 1996 to June 2004, Mr. Anderson served as Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of Apple Computer, Inc., a manufacturer of personal computers and related software. Prior to joining Apple, Mr. Anderson was Corporate Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of Automatic Data Processing, Inc., an electronic transaction processing firm, from August 1992 to March 1996. Mr. Anderson also serves on the board of directors of Homestore, Inc. Mr. Anderson holds a B.A. degree from Whittier College and an M.B.A. from the University of California, Los Angeles.

Edward W. Barnholt has served as a director of eBay since April 2005. Mr. Barnholt served as President and Chief Executive Officer of Agilent Technologies, Inc., a measurement company, from May 1999 until March 2005, and served as Chairman of the Board of Agilent from November 2002 until March 2005. Before being named Agilent's Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Barnholt served as Executive Vice President and General Manager of Hewlett-Packard Company's Measurement Organization from 1998 to 1999. From 1990 to 1998, he served as General Manager of Hewlett-Packard Company's Test and Measurement Organization. He was elected a Senior Vice President of Hewlett-Packard Company in 1993 and an Executive Vice President in 1996. Mr. Barnholt also serves on the board of directors of KLA-Tencor Corporation and Adobe Systems Incorporated and is a member of the Board of Trustees of the Packard Foundation. Mr. Barnholt holds a bachelor's degree and a master's degree in electrical engineering from Stanford University.

Scott D. Cook has served as a director of eBay since June 1998. Mr. Cook is the founder of Intuit Inc., a financial software developer. Mr. Cook has been a director of Intuit since March 1984 and is currently Chairman of the Executive Committee of the Board of Intuit. From March 1993 to July 1998, Mr. Cook served as Chairman of the Board of Intuit. From March 1984 to April 1994, Mr. Cook served as President and Chief Executive Officer of Intuit. Mr. Cook also serves on the board of directors of The Procter & Gamble Company. Mr. Cook holds a B.A. degree in Economics and Mathematics from the University of Southern California and an M.B.A. degree from the Harvard Business School.

Maybe it is time to stop using TurboTax and switch to one of the competing products.

Robert C. Kagle has served as a director of eBay since June 1997. Mr. Kagle has been a Member of Benchmark Capital, the General Partner of Benchmark Capital Partners, L.P. and Benchmark Founders' Fund, L.P., since its founding in May 1995. Mr. Kagle also has been a General Partner of Technology Venture Investors since January 1984. Mr. Kagle also serves on the board of directors of ZipRealty, Inc. Mr. Kagle holds a B.S. degree in Electrical and Mechanical Engineering from the General Motors Institute (renamed Kettering University in January 1998) and an M.B.A. degree from the Stanford Graduate School of Business.


Directors Continuing in Office Until the 2009 Annual Meeting
William C. Ford, Jr. has served as a director of eBay since July 2005. Mr. Ford has served as Chief Executive Officer of Ford Motor Company, a company that engages in the manufacture and distribution of automobiles, since October 2001 and has served as Chairman of the Board of Ford since September 1998. Mr. Ford also serves as Chairman of Ford's Environmental and Public Policy Committee and as a member of Ford's Finance Committee. Mr. Ford has held a number of management positions at Ford since 1979. Mr. Ford serves as Vice Chairman of The Detroit Lions, Inc. and Chairman of the Board of Trustees of The Henry Ford. He is also a Vice Chairman of Detroit Renaissance. Mr. Ford holds a B.A. degree from Princeton University and a master of science degree in management from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).

Dawn G. Lepore has served as a director of eBay since December 1999. Ms. Lepore has served as Chief Executive Officer and Chairman of the Board of drugstore.com, inc., a leading online provider of health, beauty, vision, and pharmacy solutions, since October 2004. From August 2003 to October 2004, Ms. Lepore served as Vice Chairman of Technology, Active Trader, Operations, Business Strategy, and Administration for the Charles Schwab Corporation and Charles Schwab & Co, Inc., a financial holding company. Prior to this appointment, she held various positions with the Charles Schwab Corporation including: Vice Chairman of Technology, Operations, Business Strategy, and Administration from May 2003 to August 2003; Vice Chairman of Technology, Operations, and Administration from March 2002 to May 2003; Vice Chairman of Technology and Administration from November 2001 to March 2002; and Vice Chairman and Chief Information Officer from July 1999 to November 2001. Ms. Lepore holds a B.A. degree from Smith College.

Pierre M. Omidyar founded eBay as a sole proprietorship in September 1995. He has been a director and Chairman of the Board since eBay's incorporation in May 1996 and also served as its Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, and President from inception to February 1998, November 1997 and August 1996, respectively. Prior to founding eBay, Mr. Omidyar was a developer services engineer at General Magic, a mobile communications platform company, from December 1994 to July 1996. Mr. Omidyar co-founded Ink Development Corp. (later renamed eShop) in May 1991 and served as a software engineer there from May 1991 to September 1994. Prior to co-founding Ink, Mr. Omidyar was a developer for Claris, a subsidiary for Apple Computer, and for other Macintosh-oriented software development companies. Mr. Omidyar is currently Chairman and CEO of Omidyar Network, a mission-based investment group committed to fostering individual self-empowerment on a global scale. He also serves on the Board of Trustees of Tufts University and the Santa Fe Institute, and as a director of Meetup Inc. Mr. Omidyar holds a B.S. degree in Computer Science from Tufts University.

Richard T. Schlosberg, III has served as a director of eBay since March 2004. From May 1999 to January 2004, Mr. Schlosberg served as President and Chief Executive Officer of the David & Lucile Packard Foundation, a private family foundation. Prior to joining the foundation, Mr. Schlosberg was Executive Vice President of The Times Mirror Company and publisher and Chief Executive Officer of the Los Angeles Times. Prior to that, he served in the same role at the Denver Post. Mr. Schlosberg serves on the board of directors of Edison International, BEA Systems, Inc, and is also a national board member of the Smithsonian Institution, a member of the USO World Board of Governors, and a trustee of Pomona College. Mr. Schlosberg is a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy and holds an M.B.A. degree from the Harvard Business School.


The prinicipal executive offices are at 2145 Hamilton Avenue
San Jose, CA 95125


John in WNC

Geno
August 3, 2007, 12:00 AM
We were going to open e-Bay and Pay Pal accounts, but did not due to these changes. Should we still send the e-mail advising them of our decision or will it carry no weight because we never actually had an account?

Doc2005

range_rider13
August 3, 2007, 12:07 AM
I have closed both of my accounts with eBay and sent the following e-mail to Matt Halprin.

Dear Mr. Halprin,

I was very disappointed to hear that eBay has decided to ban almost all items related to guns. I have closed both of my accounts with eBay because of this decision. For the record, one account was under the ID: xxxxxxxx with a 100% positive feedback of 25 and my other account was under the ID: xxxxxxxx with a 100% positive feedback of 20.

I believe, sir, that I would have respected both you and eBay much more if you would have just told us that you were anti-gun and were making these decisions due to that belief. I would still have been upset, closed my accounts, but would have accepted your decision much easier.

I can only hope that you are never faced with a home invasion nor a confrontation with some criminal who wants to take your life. I suppose if you were you would dial 911, which is nothing more than government sponsored "dial-a-prayer", and while you are waiting those 10 minutes or more for the cops to arrive, and if you survive, you just might be wishing you had a firearm for personal defense.

Fortunately, I do not own any eBay stock at this time. If I had, I would have dumped it immediately and probably at a loss. In the future, I will consider selling your stock short and definitely making a profit.


I doubt that anyone at eBay will read this but it sure made me feel better to write it. Hopefully eBay will notice an increase in account closures. :)

Geno
August 3, 2007, 01:14 AM
Has someone detailed either how 1) many millions or 2) what percentage of Americans own firearms? By doing so, one would be invoking the numeric facts of gun owners, either as X millions or X% of American who disagree with their decision by virtue of their firearms ownership. The company’s “leadership” has merely listened to the numeric minority...a financially imprudent decision, or fallen back on its own bias against firearms.

baz
August 3, 2007, 10:15 AM
Has someone detailed either how 1) many millions or 2) what percentage of Americans own firearms?According to the NSSF (http://www.nssf.org/IndustryResearch/FAQ-ans.cfm?Qno=01&AoI=generic), there are about 20 million active hunters, and over 17 million active target shooters, of which about 10 million are handgun shooters. I've read, but don't have a quick and handy source, that 80 million Americans own firearms, and that there are over 200 million firearms in American homes.

fatelk
August 3, 2007, 05:40 PM
I sent my email Tuesday, and just now got a response (the same canned BS everyone else got). I hope the delay is due to volume of mail received. I know it makes no difference but it makes me feel a little better.

To those who say Big deal, I hate ebay anyway, It's their right so stop griping: this is a win for the anti-gunners. Not a political win as far as laws, but a big win nonetheless. I have a hard-earned 100% feedback of nearly 150, and it was not an easy decision to close my account, but it's the principal. Would you buy from Gun Control Inc. if they had a website, because they had the best prices or most convenient site? It appears to me from the response I just received, that ebay is completely sold on the "guns have no place in our society" thing. That much is very clear.

If we all just sit back and take it by not closing our accounts, and continue to give them money, they will continue to walk all over us.

MMcD
August 3, 2007, 06:03 PM
I closed my account in response to another thread on this site. I sent a short very high road email and received the first version of the form letter. Closing my ebay account won't cost them much, as I didn't use it too often. My paypal account is another story though. I use it a lot. Does anyone have experience with any of the other pay sites?

achildofthesky
August 3, 2007, 07:43 PM
Dear Patty,

Thank you for your recent email to Matt Halprin
in regard to changes to
our Firearms, Weapons and Knives policy. He has
asked that I review your
email and respond on his behalf.

At eBay we take the safety of our community and
our marketplace very
seriously. We have a Trust and Safety team which
consists of more than
2,000 experts in online security and safety who
are located around the
globe. This team is dedicated to ensuring that
our marketplace is a safe
and trusted place for buyers and sellers to
engage in trade.

We value an open and transparent marketplace; if
items are legal to buy
and sell in an unrestricted manner we allow them
on our site. However,
there are some items that while legal, may not be
safe for our
marketplace. In these instances, our applicable
policies go beyond the
law to ensure that our marketplace is safe.

Currently we do not allow actual firearms on the
site. After careful
consideration our executives and our Trust and
Safety team determined
that any item required to fire a gun has no place
on eBay. All of our
policies are under constant review. As the
Internet and the way our
communities use the Internet evolves, our
policies and our marketplace
must evolve with it. We determined that this
policy change was in the
best interest of promoting a safe marketplace for
all members.

I understand your frustration regarding this
matter and apologize for
the inconvenience it caused you.

Sincerely,

Terri
Office of the President

Original Message
----------------

From: Geneva Smith
[mailto:achildofthesky@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:26 AM
To: Halprin, Matt
Subject: Ebay ban on gun parts and related items.

To: Matt Halprin
On July 30, 2007 you announced that ebay will add
new restrictions to
the "Firearms, Weapons and Knives Policy". These
restrictions are on
items that are legal to own / use in these great
United States.
You claim that "This new update continues to
encourage safety among our
community members". How? The items ebay are
banning are still for sale
in the USA and still legal to own / use in this
great country!
Will ebay motors stop allowing the listing of
vehicles because a drunk
driver kills someone? What happens when someone
is bludgeoned to death
with any of the baseball bats listed on ebay?
With logic such as this,
surely you must ban helicopters as they collide
in mid air and kill as
in Phoenix, toys as they can have lead paint and
small parts to choke
on, motorcycles are a sure ride to death, weight
loss pills that kill,
tools as they cause can cause bridges to collapse
as in MN today, radar
detectors that are banned in a few states because
we all know speed
kills, dark window tint is too a hazard, etc...
What about the thousands
of other items that could be used to cause harm
to person or persons?
What about the thousands of items listed that
could be used to commit a
crime or break the law? The list is truely
endless. Yet the items you
seek to ban are 100% legal and commonly available
even at Walmart and
small town mom and pop convenience stores and
sporting goods outlets
across all 50 states. Your ban is out and out
retarded and ill thought
out.

I strongly urge ebay to rescind these new
restrictions.
Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Patty Smith
achildofthesky
375+ feedback 100% positive

What a crock of crap. Unfortunately for me and others selling brass, gunbroker does'nt have a catagory outside of ammunition to post in. Glad I don't own Ebay stock anymore or else I'd have to dump it now.

Patty

RonSC
August 3, 2007, 07:46 PM
Mr. Halprin;

In light of your decision, to restrict the sale of firearm components I have decided that Ebay will not receive another cent of my money..PERIOD!
Lest you think my decision will have a negligible impact on your company's "bottom Line" I will remind you that a large portion the nation's 80 million gun owners, hunters and sportsmen have been or are currently being made aware of this short-sighted attempt to keep us "safe from ourselves".

Furthermore, many who patronize Ebay, while not necessarily being hunters/shooters ARE campers, fishermen, sports collectors i.e. outdoors men/women who have not taken your decision lightly.

I have personally contacted (23) of my personal friends and family via phone/email resulting in a total of (19) ( thus far) who have canceled their Ebay accounts and have vowed to convince THEIR friends to do likewise.
Suffice it to say that am making it my lot in life to continue to inform as many friends and acquaintances as possible of your company's recent decision.

PS:
Please refrain from sending to me the same lame"canned" rebuttal that my friends have received concerning this matter.

bigpea
August 3, 2007, 08:04 PM
Email sent, this is definitely anti-gun and I will no longer purchase or sell on Ebay. I don't know why they don't just ban car sales on Ebay as well, people die everyday. Ebay is messed up, what crap.

bigPEA

jhunter
August 3, 2007, 08:08 PM
Is it not odd that auto's kill more each day than guns probably do in a month and yet they still sell those? Yea, VT was a sad deal, but while I am typing this the same amount of people are probably killed in car wrecks. EBAY, BAN CAR SALES TOO PLEASE.

bigpea
August 3, 2007, 08:31 PM
Maybe Matt Halprin and the EBAY group have been hanging out with HUGO CHAVEZ in Venezuela. EBAY sure doesn't seem like a very patriotic company to me. Or maybe they are having tea parties with North Korea!!!

IDIOTS!

bigPEA

skinnyguy
August 3, 2007, 08:48 PM
I got the same reply as thefumegator, nice to see that they have 2 form letters to send out.

Here is my reply to them.I must say that I'm very disappointed to have recieved your form letter to the people concerned about this new policy.

Here is the short version of what I read;

You have your opinion, and you don't matter, so forget you, just give us money.

Well, I'm not sorry. I can not justify giving my money to anti-gun, narrow-minded, organizations that have no view of reality, and only know what what the newspapers and mainstream media want you to know.

Forget me?
Forget YOU!

I am about 2 minutes from closing my eBay and paypal accounts.

skinnyguy

In closing my account, I opted for the permanent deletion of the account, on the last page, I ran into this little tidbit; We have started the process to close your account. The process may take up to two weeks. Once your account has been closed, we will send an email to your registered email address.

We value your membership in the eBay Community, and we wish we could convince you to stay. A customer support representative may contact you to see if there's anything we can do to address your concerns.
The {non-High Road adjectives} DO have the way to convince me to stay, but they won't do it.

hoppinglark
August 4, 2007, 09:53 AM
I don't have an Ebay account but my wife does. She once ordered me a handmade Railroad-stake-knife that a blacksmith made.

I can get the PC of not selling gun parts, we just move our business to Amazon.com market place and let them take the rewards, but not selling knives? Knife sets are often on wedding registries and are a gentleman's tool no matter how you look at it.

no animal skins? so no leather to tool for belts or other accesories?

Ebay just went off the deepend.

sfc123
August 4, 2007, 10:46 AM
Mr. Halprin,

It is disappointing to note Ebay’s change on gun part sales. I’m sure you have heard many of the typical responses to this so I will avoid those by merely letting you know that more children have died on their bicycles than by guns in this country. More people have died in their cars in this country than by guns in this country, by a long, long margin. Yes, but the benefits of the car are so significant that they far outweigh the thousands of deaths every year. What about global warming? That could affect the entire world! Is it worth getting to work that much quicker or farther away and put the entire earth at risk? You probably haven’t thought about this, but based latest analysis by noted economists and statistians there are approximately 2.5 million guns used in legally justified self defense EVERY YEAR. That means at least 2.5 million people were either not killed or severely injured because of guns. Think about it this way, can cars make the same claim? Perhaps. It is possible that because of a car a mother was able to get to the hospital or a child was saved. But when we say at least 2.5 million people we mean that those people that used those guns most likely had other people with them and so saved their lives from ending or permanent damage.

So do guns help society? Are guns saving lives? Yes on both counts. In fact “right to carry” guns laws are the single most consistently effective way of bringing down murder and assault. Educate yourself and those in your company. It is not an emotional endeavor that we must pursue, but rather a reasoned circumspective analysis that doesn’t involve what we “feel is right”. By making it more difficult for people to get the parts necessary to service their guns you are potentially responsible for their lives either in death or injury. I will not partner with a company that has such a pursuit.

I will be cancelling my account.

BobCat
August 4, 2007, 01:41 PM
A couple of days ago I terminated my ebay and paypal accounts, and made it clear why.

However, I wonder if these people are even making a political statement at all.

Is it not possible that they are trying to distance their companies from liabilty issues arising from the use of a firearm part or accessory - like the magazine the VT killer bought via ebay - in a crime?

Yes, more people die in auto wrecks every year than from gunshot wounds (I think it is about twice as many but am too lazy to look it up right now). However, cars are not primarily weapons, which is a plausible legal defense against their being liable if someone buys a car through ebay and then runs someone over.

Firearms, although many of use them primarily for recreation / competition, are weapons first and sporting goods second. If someone buys "something that is used in the firing of a gun" (or however they phrased it) through ebay, and then goes on a crime spree, might ebay be a tempting deep-pockets target for a lawsuit?

Please note I am not defending their actions, have ended my accounts (and need to look for other places to buy reloading equipment and so forth), and do not intend to do business with them any more. I'm just searching for a plausible reason for their stance, that does not invoke anti-gun irrationality.

Regards,
Andrew

No Praise, No Blame
August 5, 2007, 07:47 PM
I apologize if this was already posted, but here is a petition; please consider signing it.

http://www.petitiononline.com/ebay0001/petition.html

The_Antibubba
August 5, 2007, 09:18 PM
Quote: Before canceling my pay pal account, I'm just wondering if there are any legitimate competitors to Pay Pal which I can transfer my business to.


I think Google has a service, but with most folks using Paypal, it's not much of a competitor.

Chris

and: I believe, sir, that I would have respected both you and eBay much more if you would have just told us that you were anti-gun and were making these decisions due to that belief. I would still have been upset, closed my accounts, but would have accepted your decision much easier.




In all the time I've used eBay, I have NEVER used PayPal. Their owners were anti-gun from a long time before they merged. This seems to have surprised a lot of gun users who should know better; they've made contributions to the Brady groups and to pro-ban politicians. On the occasions I've bought gun-related items on eBay, I've written to a few sellers that I cannot participate in their auction because I don't use PayPal. Some have accepted MOs, some wouldn't, but almost all of them were surprised to learn about the anti-gun bias.

Well, no more.

As wealthy as they've become they might not miss the 2A supporters and the income we generate. But this will mean that other auction sites, and other ePayment systems, will get a boost; and as more of us use them, they will improve.

I'll probably keep my eBay account--there are still things which cannot be found elsewhere. Yet.

But mark my words: The 800 pound gorilla will soon be losing some weight.

Crimp
August 5, 2007, 10:35 PM
eBay and PayPal accounts dumped and a letter to Halprin sent today. I will miss my PayPal account, but Halprin made the decision to close it for me.

DomMega
August 6, 2007, 12:26 AM
This comes as no surprise to me. Ebay is located in California and a lot of "PC" guidelines and regulations usually come from here or NY. I'm sure the anti-gun crowd starting crying to ebay about the sales of gun parts and accessories and instead of wanting their stock to go down one quarter of one percent, they decided to just give in to the stupidity. Kind of like what Kmart did in "Bowling for Columbine" when they stopped selling ammunition because the Columbine shooters bought their ammo there and Michael Moore brought a paralyzed victim there. All that did was give Wal-Mart the market on ammunition sales and I'm sure they thanked Michael Moore for that, haha.

I think after this is said and done, ebay is going to realize they kind of shot themselves in the foot when they're overall productivity goes down a bit (pun intended). Might be a good time to short ebay's stock in retrospect.

AJAX22
August 6, 2007, 12:43 AM
Account closed.

I want to be VERY clear on this point,

I am canceling my ebay account (which I have had for almost a decade now) because of ebays new policy regarding the sale of firearm parts.

It is your right to conduct your buisness in the way you see fit.

and if you choose to continue this folly, it is my right to take my buisness elsewhere.

I would also like to mention that I will be selling any and all stock in your company that I currently hold. I had considered attending your next shareholder meeting and voicing my concerns at that time, but I simply do not wish to associate myself with your company for that length of time.

Gustav
August 6, 2007, 12:55 AM
Thanks for the link for the petition if everyone got involved the 900 pound gorilla would soon be on a strict diet and places such as Gunbroker.com or Auction Arms could take up the slack or even maybe a new company would have the capital to build a better free market internet auction site for everything including firearms, autos, gun parts etc just like e bay only a real free market auction site with everything and anything.
E bay has had a virtual monopoly for way too long.
I have e mailed them and signed the petition as should all who are firearms enthusiasts, if all gun owners stood together we would be heard!
Vote with your dollars or your feet and hopefully in 5 or 10 years e bay will be the place for cheap computer software and beannie babys and not much else.

OCJ
August 6, 2007, 10:37 AM
Is it possible to get the stats on other products that have caused deaths, purchased on ebay and specifically referenced in the media articles reporting the deaths...and then make this report available to various media outlets, showing that crimes involving gun parts from ebay make up a very small percentage?

LubeckTech
August 6, 2007, 12:54 PM
What is the most effective way to contact Ebay? I've looked at their "contact us" thing and it seems like more of a FAQ than anything else. I want them to explain to me what a "bullet tip" is, especially when I don't see any of them listed. I also want to ask them when they plan to ban bows, arrows, baseball bats, crow bars, tire tools. knives, axes, rope and cars? All of these things are VERY lethal and (with the exception of cars) are silent and don't require any type of ammunition. Basically it is possible to kill and injure a lot more people with a blunt insturment or edged weapon over time than with any firearm - there have been (and are) serial killers that have been killing for years in this fashion. How many people can you kill with a firing pin, slide or anything else they propose to ban? Last I want to point out to them that their position sets them up for a lawsuit in that their ban is an admission of liability that extends to ALL of their auctions. One of the above posters said this is a win for the anti gunners and that is only true if we all cancel our accounts, pick up our marbles and quitely go away. BUT if we show them we won't go away, flood their servers with email and use this as an opportunity to bring attention to our situation it doesn't have to be a win for them. Before you close your account what can you do to make them waste their time and rescources and regret their decision? Have som fun with it!! It probably won't do any good but it is better than nothing which has no chance of doing anything. Was it over when the Germans bombed Peral Harbor?? Of course not!!!!!!

wheelgunslinger
August 6, 2007, 02:33 PM
I'm pretty certain that eBay won't care at all and has already processed the financial forcast before making this move so they know what they are getting into and don't care.
The owners of Gun Broker and Auction Arms have to be gleefully wringing their hands and interviewing potential building contractors for their new homes...

Creature
August 6, 2007, 02:36 PM
woopsy...never mind.

mljdeckard
August 6, 2007, 04:10 PM
Without reading the entire thread, I may be repeating what has already been said, but understand, eBay's trust and safety department (prohibited items team) was already pre-occupied with complaints about weapons-related listings. They are a department which spends all day looking at listings people have complained about, which can be anything from child-pornography to nazi memorabilia to dangerous items. They were already spending a lot of time sorting through grey area of what is and isn't allowed. They look at this as a relief, that they can scratch off anything with 'gun' in the listing, it makes their job smaller. This means they have more time to manually search for prohibited items.

Their customer service is deliberately set up to handle activists and spammers. They already have to handle (for example) spam floods from christian groups protesting listings in the adult sections. They can filter emails by topic or content. And NO, you can't call them directly. Pretty much the only way to actually speak to someone there is to become a powerseller and then if there is a problem, you have an actual account representative who you can contact. In this, they value high-volume sellers (The ones who actually keep them in business) more than small-time buyers. About a year ago, they announced similar service for high-volume buyers as well, I never heard if it happened or not.

It had been suggested numerous times that eBay set up a section to sell firearms with its own seperate terms of service (as in eBay motors) or that they buy a site like auctionarms.com, but they always come back to: It's too much of a liability. If someone buys a gun from eBay and goes Columbine, they would be out of business.

alan
August 6, 2007, 05:55 PM
I personally think that E/bay's line or justifications or rationalizations for this new policy are plain and simple, baloney. Having said that, they can take this line, if they like.

Equally if not more important is the following. Individuals who are less than happy over E/bay policies can take their money and patronage elsewhere. In-so-far as I understand, there are other places to go.

LubeckTech
August 6, 2007, 05:59 PM
What email address is everyone using to contact them? It matters not that they don't care - it is important they hear from us. This was not done, on their part, without thinking or considering the negative reprocussions. I'm quite certain they are prepared to "handle" us but wouldn't it be nice if they were to find they underestimated the situation??

1911austin
August 6, 2007, 06:13 PM
Ebay and Paypal accounts closed.

Mokothar
August 6, 2007, 06:21 PM
My mail:

Good day,

I'd like to start out by saying that I have no interest in an automated reply of any sort, as many of my friends have been receiving after sending you their personal reflections upon your (your, referring to eBay
's) new policy concerning the sale of firearms and their accessories.

You've heard it all before by now, and I won't bother you with the ethical details of my opinion, I'd just like to point out that by altering your policy into it's current form, you are at risk of alienating a group of people who are essentially
a financial superpower. The recent tragedies, all of which are too often cited and too little mourned, have been a fertile soil for legislation an policy which has been observed to be ineffective in large portions of the world. This has caused the vast community
of law-abiding gun owners to cling together in defense of what we believe to be our rights.
Admitting that you will not exactly suffer a financially crippling blow by our withdrawal from your site, I'd like you to think about something:
How many people have applauded your change in policy? Will these people be spending more time and money on your site?
And: how long until that mob has long forgotten about your -in my best effort not to belittle your good intentions- witless actions?


I don't believe that your company will get any gain, financial, ethical or otherwise, from the course you have taken to.

Sincerely and without grudge
Mokothar,
Son to a competitive marksman.


I'm not really angry with them, they're excercizing their right not to sell things, though it bothers me that they don't provide a logical explanation as to why ... oh well, taking the business elsewhere.

patentmike
August 6, 2007, 08:40 PM
I got the standard response. Then I got what they said was a "random" survey to see how I liked my customer service experience. I responded even though I am no longer a customer. There was a selection in the survey about whether I disagreed with any of ebay's policies and I even got to fill in an explanation of why I didn't like their feel-good, extra-legal, politically correct rule. I haven't seen anything in the thread that indicates the survey is an automatic response to everyone, maybe it will actually be read by a human.

mtnbkr
August 6, 2007, 08:56 PM
I got the same survey.

Chris

skinnyguy
August 6, 2007, 08:59 PM
I've already said my piece to eBay concerning their new policy, but I did come up with another argument to be presented to them, if anybody would like to add this to their rant mails to eBay.

I was talking to a local police officer last week, and he told me that the department issues Glocks to all of the officers, but if the officer chose to use another sidearm, or a rifle or riot gun, the officer has to fund that him/herself. I would think there are policies like that in place in many law enforcement agencies nationwide, in addition to military personel, security guards, bodyguards, etc. How many of THESE customers did eBay just put in a world of hurt because of the new policy?

Just one of the things that made me say "hmmmmmmmmmm".........

wheelgunslinger
August 6, 2007, 11:34 PM
I'm quite certain they are prepared to "handle" us but wouldn't it be nice if they were to find they underestimated the situation??

Yes, it would be really awesome if we had that kind of solidarity that would prevent any more ebay sales from happening throughout the gun user/supporter community. I'd love to see that happen.

I was talking to a local police officer last week, and he told me that the department issues Glocks to all of the officers, but if the officer chose to use another sidearm, or a rifle or riot gun, the officer has to fund that him/herself. I would think there are policies like that in place in many law enforcement agencies nationwide, in addition to military personel, security guards, bodyguards, etc. How many of THESE customers did eBay just put in a world of hurt because of the new policy?
Wow. Given the average starting wage of a LEO, that's ridiculous, but I guess it explains why most new cops have the McAuto on their side instead of something else. Maybe Auction Arms or GunBroker will kick in a subsidy for LEOs... 10% off or something.

:mad:

v35
August 10, 2007, 07:53 PM
I wrote my own letter (a damn good one, too :) ) and sent it this afternoon. It'll be interesting to see if I get a form letter or one as personal as mine.

BersaManII
August 10, 2007, 08:10 PM
Did you ask them if or when they were banning the sale of all that filthy porn they sell on their site now?

http://dot11net.net/~jiml/CHLThumbs.gif

The Deer Hunter
August 10, 2007, 09:52 PM
Did you ask them if or when they were banning the sale of all that filthy porn they sell on their site now?

Good point.

You know I know a kid that was beaten to death with a vodka bottle. They shouldn't sell bottles anymore...

v35
August 10, 2007, 10:34 PM
Are there any equivalent sites to Ebay?
There are plenty of online auction sites. Auction sites just link potential buyers and sellers. There's nothing special about auction sites; it's just that seller reputation and the integrity of transactions is their capital and Ebay is by far the biggest. They likely also have the most reliable servers and support. I bought a holster from a site that goes by the unfortunate name www.iwantdeal.com. Unlike Ebay listings there are completely free. They even have a category called "firearms and parts". Fine transaction, but as of this afternoon there are absolutely no items for sale on the site. None. No traffic makes things difficult to sell.

White Horseradish
August 11, 2007, 01:09 AM
Somewhere in the early pages of this thread there was a letter that mentioned using Craigslist over eBay.

Just so you know, Craigslist is partially owned by eBay.

alan
August 11, 2007, 01:10 AM
Mokothar:

Interesting, thoughtful letter.

Would you be so kind as to publish anything in the way of a REAL response that you might possibly, though not likely get from E/Bay?

Thanks.

Alan

bender
August 11, 2007, 02:00 PM
I closed my ebay account also. been a member for 9 years. 100% feedback rating. I let them know why I was leaving... but got the same form letters that everyone else gets.

Will close my paypal account also.

hoppinglark
August 11, 2007, 09:56 PM
ubid.com has been around for 10 years, I think they got wind of the backlash against ebay's ban of :

Firearms
Knives
Animals skins

and now they doing a media blitz, I've 4 or 5 commercials in the past 2 days.

I am going to sign up with ubid.com because I typed in "knives" and there were a dozen results instantly

just my $.02

alan
August 12, 2007, 06:17 PM
Regarding several posts here indicating closure of E/bay accounts, the writing of letters to E/bay management and the receipt of "canned form letters in "response", respecting a mob the size of E/bay, did you realistically expect anything else?

Mind, this is NOT to say that I agree with E/bay's action, however that is their choice to make, and they obviously have made it, likely having analyzed data and having decided that the amount of business their action would cost them is NOT SIGNIFICANT. The only way that they are likely to change their position is to have the error of their ways driven home in an unmistakably clear manner, which translates to a significant drop in business along with the concomitant effect on E/bay's BOTTOM LINE.

I suspect that they would be rather sensitive to that sort of thing, and also submit that that is about the only thing that would sway the decision makers there. If we, members of The Gun Culture can achieve this, that is to hit E/bay in the pocketbook and hit tem hard, change will come. Absent our ability to so do, and the relevant action, forget E/bay, and do business elsewhere. Aside from the antics of E/bay, we have other cats to skin, more important cats, or so it seems to me.

RobZ71LM7
August 12, 2007, 06:49 PM
I just closed my eBay account-took me a while haven't used it in a few months due to political reasons. I had been selling on eBay for 8 years. Now when will the rest of firearm owners stop using paypal? It's really annoying selling stuff and having a fellow gun owner get angry with you because you don't use paypal.

wcwhitey
August 13, 2007, 08:37 PM
I posted the reply weeks ago and got the canned response. I have also got a few emails from sellers that I have bought components off of. Most seem to be going to Gunbroker. I hope Gunbroker picks up the ball, seems like a opportunity for them. I also mentioned the Law Enforcement Public in my email, did not matter. Accounts closed, maybe won't matter but gotta take a stand sometime. Bill

Matt King
August 13, 2007, 09:40 PM
I wonder if these account closures are making any dent in Ebay's business.

v35
August 13, 2007, 11:28 PM
Thoughtful, impassioned, heartfelt, rational letter sent. Form letter received. Ebay and PayPal clearly do not value my business.

:fire:

mpmarty
August 14, 2007, 03:19 PM
Canceled my Ebay and PayPal accounts when the announcement broke. Last week their stock finally climbed to $36.50 and I dumped several thousand worth. It hasn't gotten back up there since and I hope it doesn't. Any of you out there with mutual funds, look to see if you are invested in Ebay in your fund and direct your manager to divest immediately, if enough of us do that it will further depress the value of Ebay and perhaps "follow the dollar" mentality will force the management of Ebay to consider what they have done.

alan
August 15, 2007, 11:38 AM
mpmarty:

As I mentioned in an earlier post (#115), hitting them in their bottom line is likely the one and only thing that could cause a "revaluation of policy".

Of course, one question remains more or less unanswered, actually two questions.

1. Are there enough people in The Gun Culture, for want of a better term, to have the desired effect, that is withholding business from E/bay?
I suspect that E/bay's evaluation of that question would be NO.

2. Will gun owners, once again, turn out to be "their own worst enemies", or will they somehow manage to get their act topgether, thereby perhaps generating the force necessary to cause E/bay and or like entities to think again?

Only time will tell.

bender
August 15, 2007, 12:09 PM
I just closed my paypal account. Included a nice memo of why I was doing it. Closed my ebay account last week, also with an explanation why.

I notice that paypal says they have 'over 100 million accounts"... So I guess a few hundred gun owners closing their accounts would be extremely insignificant to put it lightly.

Hopefully ebay will feel it more.

wcwhitey
August 15, 2007, 07:04 PM
I am sure they will feel something. There were quite a few knife stores, high volume as well as holster and gun part stores. Cheaper than dirt sold products on Ebay. We are talking about more than just guns, everything gun related is going, that adds up to alot of goods. Ebay and Paypal got a piece of every transaction. They essentially shut down quite a few small businesses, they will see a reduction in income just do to this. Bill

alan
August 16, 2007, 01:29 AM
wcwhitey writes:

I am sure they will feel something. There were quite a few knife stores, high volume as well as holster and gun part stores. Cheaper than dirt sold products on Ebay. We are talking about more than just guns, everything gun related is going, that adds up to alot of goods. Ebay and Paypal got a piece of every transaction. They essentially shut down quite a few small businesses, they will see a reduction in income just do to this. Bill

-----------------

E/bay, re this "new" policy of theirs would likely claim to have taken "the high road", no pun intended. Personally speaking, I put no stock in any such claims, as I believe they are simply pandering to the screamers.

In the last analysis, we shall see what happens, both with E/bay and PayPal, which E/bay owns, and the high moral tone they seem to have adopted. Personally speaking, and I can offer nothing concrete to support the following conclusion other than a gut feeling, I suspect that if push came to shove, and their bottom line were to be seriously/adversley effected, that the above mentioned hight moral tone would turn out to have feet of clay, to use a fairly polite form of expression. Of course, I could be wrong.

Titan6
August 16, 2007, 07:57 AM
Food for thought. When you tell a store: ''I will never shop here again'' they no longer worry about providing you with customer service.

baz
August 16, 2007, 10:26 PM
When was this policy to go into effect? Ebay is still selling lots of stuff it proposed to ban.

TC-TX
August 17, 2007, 01:55 AM
Email SENT...

and I ADDED THIS:

Perhaps you should consider halting the sale of cars on eBay Motors too. FAR MORE folks are killed in automobiles than are killed by psychotics with firearms every year.

I regret that I will no longer be buying, selling, or looking on eBay due to your decision. I also regret that I must recommend the same to all of my students and clients.

bender
August 18, 2007, 12:15 AM
I'm not sure if I have read through the entire 6 pages of this thread, but I did not see a post about this petition to Matt Halprin that is currently going on:

http://www.petitiononline.com/ebay0001/petition.html

sigs are filling fast. An hour after I signed it, there were already something like 50 more signatures already.

LubeckTech
August 19, 2007, 12:46 PM
Ebay as a general rule does not police it's listings (there is some key word filtering) but removes things mainly in responses to complaints. AS of acouple of days ago there were still some of the "banned" items listed but not many. After looking today I don't see hardly anything but there will be some from time to time in the future. I don't plan on canceling my Ebay account but will eventually provoke them into canceling me. One thing we can all do (which is the worst thing you can do to a sales oriented business like telemarketing) is waste their time. If they had just said their policy was strictly about liability it probably would not bother me. BUT Matt Halprin's snitty comments about "community safety" and "the right thing to do" while ebay sells countless items when misused can cause great injury or death is a BLANTANT insult. One which I will not walk away from!!

packnrat
August 23, 2007, 07:38 AM
for those who do not like the new e-bay policy. to bad!

it is a privet company and they can do as they please.:what:



but as others here have posted it is a very bad thing they are doing,
banning any part, tool, addon, etc. for guns,
why stop there,
next year they can ban knives,
the next year?

i and many others are dropping e-bay and will not do anything to help them make any money, (sorry about your stock in them)
same goes for the paypal system.

i vote, and i spend my money in what pleases me.

e-bay does not please me, so i go else were.

alan
August 24, 2007, 05:21 PM
packnrat writes:

for those who do not like the new e-bay policy. to bad!

it is a privet company and they can do as they please.



but as others here have posted it is a very bad thing they are doing,
banning any part, tool, addon, etc. for guns,
why stop there,
next year they can ban knives,
the next year?

i and many others are dropping e-bay and will not do anything to help them make any money, (sorry about your stock in them)
same goes for the paypal system.

i vote, and i spend my money in what pleases me.

e-bay does not please me, so i go else were.

--------------------------

He is, respecting his opening observations, entirely correct, in-so-far as their actions or antics fall within the law. Additionally, as he also notes, what they have done is "a very bad thing". Add to that the fact that others, within the limits of the law, can also do whatever they like, including cancelling E/bay and or PayPal accounts(PayPal is owned by E/bay).

Should it turn out that E/bay begins to feel "pocketbook pain" as a result of their policies, the policies will change, given a significant enough level of pain. Absent this, they have made their decision, others can/will make theirs, including moving on to other suppliers.

In the past, I had bid on a couple of items on E/bay, ending up purchasing one of them, a marine sextant. The thing, in passing, was as advertrized, so no problem there with anyone. Given E/bay's recent moves, I'm not likely to make other purchases, unless and until their most reprehensible policies are changed. End of story, so far as I'm concerned.

HonorsDaddy
August 24, 2007, 06:01 PM
They are a private company and able to do as they please. This is true.

I am a private citizen and able to do as I please - which includes making people aware of eBay's anti-gun stance, and letting eBay know I'm taking my money elsewhere.

Isn't freedom great? :P

hoppinglark
August 24, 2007, 09:21 PM
...why stop there,
next year they can ban knives...

*AHEM
They HAVE banned Knives,and Animal Skins

So really the this ban seems to be more about destroying the use of Ebay for hunters than anything else.

I have a railroad stake that was forged into a knife by a blacksmith that I bought on Ebay. So where is this blacksmith supposed to sell his knives now?
Amazon.com market place?
Ubid.com ?

Yes it's a private company, and we are private citizens, so we can take our business elsewhere and make sure they know why.

birdbustr
August 24, 2007, 10:44 PM
http://www.petitiononline.com/ebay0001/petition.html
We all should sign this.

Use Gunbroker.com

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