Reporting Lost/Destroyed/"Buy Back" Guns


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damien
July 31, 2007, 05:54 PM
I live in Illinois and I don't even know the law here.

What are the reporting requirements for lost/destroyed guns. And this goes for guns that are given at "no questions asked" gun buy backs that end up being destroyed as well. How do you document that the gun was lost, destroyed, or given to a gun buy back program?

What concerns me is that although there isn't real registration, the federal form and other local regulations form a pseudo-registration. By going back and looking at the federal form, investigators in the future might determine that you once bought a gun and want to know where it went.

This is especially concerning because so many politicans want to ban guns. Say you have an AR-15 pattern rifle today and it is lost, destroyed, or turned in. You have no receipt for where it went. What if they aggressively ban AR-15 pattern rifles in the future and start searching for prior owners. They might come to you and now you have no documentation on the disposition of the rifle. Just your word against no one's.

But then again, there is no requirement that you keep a receipt for a lost/destroyed/"buy back" gun at the present time. I guess they couldn't prosecute you in the future for your failing to anticipate a future regulation.

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230RN
July 31, 2007, 07:37 PM
In the country I used to live in, the burden of proof was on the government that you didn't dispose of the gun and still had it.

But that was long ago.

And even before that, the Government had no business knowing what guns you had. But that was before 1968.

Some others on THR lived in that country, too.

never_retreat
July 31, 2007, 07:59 PM
What is this mystical country you speak of 230RN?:confused:

DMK
July 31, 2007, 08:00 PM
I'd only worry about it if it was stolen. That gun might turn up somewhere bad and then could leave a trail back to you. Technically, someone would have to prove motive and put you at the scene of a crime, but still it's a headache you don't want. In any case, you need to report a stolen gun(s) ASAP as CYA and keep a copy of the police report as proof.

If it's destroyed (properly), it's gone. It can't come back and bite you.

If it's an anti-gun gun buy (can't bring myself to use the term "buy back" since 'they' never owned it in the first place), they should give you a receipt, but I can't see why anyone would sell themselves out and encourage such a thing just to make a few bucks. I certainly wouldn't trust them to destroy it. A local sheriff here (a few counties over) has 'lost' a bunch of these guns recently and some allegedly have turned up at crime scenes according to a local paper and another PD.

But then again, there is no requirement that you keep a receipt for a lost/destroyed/"buy back" gun at the present time. I guess they couldn't prosecute you in the future for your failing to anticipate a future regulation.Right now, there is no federal requirement for a non FFL gun owner to record a disposition of a gun (including a sale). Technically, the state or government needs evidence of a crime to charge you. The lack of evidence is not evidence in itself. But again, CYA never hurts. There may be a state or local law that applies to you, I don't know.

By going back and looking at the federal form, investigators in the future might determine that you once bought a gun and want to know where it went. "Sold it to some guy a while back." They can hassle you with angry faces and rude words, but according to federal law you have no obligation to remember. Again, your state or local laws may vary.

DMK
July 31, 2007, 08:09 PM
What is this mystical country you speak of 230RN?The land of the free and home of the brave? (may she rest in peace)

MKEITH
July 31, 2007, 09:02 PM
You must be from the same place as my dad.Always wanted to visit there one day.

Neo-Luddite
July 31, 2007, 09:41 PM
In IL pal, you're up the creek. Y-O-U are responsible for keeping the disposition records as directed by IL statute on the back of the FOID card.

Unless the gun was better than 10 years in your hands, you'd better have the data. After 10 years, you're in the 'clear'.

It won't matter that it was sold 'out of state', they'll want the data that they are entitled to by statute.


Turned it in to Rev. Pfleger or Jackson pehaps? Get a receipt. I don't know that anyone has yet been prosecuted----but you know what they say if you need to know how to interpret the law:

read the statute-read the statute- read the statute.

anonymis 'buy backs' ain't covered. You need name, address, serial, and FOID card number, and date (iirc).

damien
August 1, 2007, 12:53 AM
In IL pal, you're up the creek. Y-O-U are responsible for keeping the disposition records as directed by IL statute on the back of the FOID card.

When I said I didn't know the law, I was talking about lost/destroyed or disposed of in a gun buyback. I do know the law for transferring guns. You're right, it's on the back of the FOID card. It says:

"Requisites for Transfer: 3(a) Except as provided in section 3a, no person within this State may knowingly transfer, or cause to be trasferred, any firearm or any firearm ammunition to any person within this State unless ..."

But, this law pertains to transfers. I accept what you say as it pertains to buybacks. I hadn't thought of it as a transfer, but it sure is. I don't accept that this law has anything to do with lost or destroyed guns. You simply did not transfer or cause to be transferred any gun in this case.

So then, what is Illinois law for lost or destroyed guns? No transfer occurred. You shouldn't have to report it. If they come looking for a certain gun in the future, claiming it to have been lost or destroyed should be sufficient, assuming you really don't have it (very near you). They can't prove you are lying and they can't claim you ran afoul of the FOI Act or any other act that I know of based on your claim of having lost or destoyed the gun.

If you claim to have sold it and had it for less than 10 years I can see how this would be a problem. I wouldn't think of doing that. Of course, at least half of my collection is over 10 years old including all my AR's so there is that option!

Any more problems in my logic?

Neo-Luddite
August 1, 2007, 10:32 AM
Any more problems in my logic?


Your logic is A-OK---my beef is with Illinois. It's nice when those guns turn ten years old. They are pushing a law to require that LE be informed when a gun is lost or stolen on the state level here, too. I've heard little about it lately. As I've got a C/R lic. I know that I'm stuck reporting any lost or stolen C/R guns to ATF within 24 hrs.

I didn't mean to come off sarcastic if I did--I'm just frustrated with Illinois. It will take some poor guy being dragged to court before we know just what 'transfer' means to SOI. I had not considered what a problem this could be.

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