[feedthehogs]

While waiting in line to pass thru TSA security at Miami International on the way to Venezuela, I had the opportunity to start a discussion on the state of international travel with a couple of TSA employees.

After stating the fact that even though I was just leaving I couldn't wait to get back to the US and my freedoms, the TSA employee remarked "Why, the government owns everything including the clothes on your body".

It was obvious that the Cuban born agent still had delusions of Castro in his head and after letting him know this observation and hearing his response, I truly believe his convictions come not from the old country but from some indoctrination by his superiors in the US.

When I pulled my pocket constitution out and opened it to the bill of rights and pointed out that the second amendment was the most important of them all because it guaranteed that all other rights would remain ours,
I was asked to follow two TSA supervisors to a room and explain my actions.

What actions I said, I was just explaining to the security agent that his belief that the government owns you was wrong and I wanted him to see our founding documents.

I was asked if I was some kind of radical to which I just laughed.
Much conversation followed, but the end result was after checking my passport they let me go in time to make my flight.

On my return 5 days later checking thru immigration, I presented my passport to the customs agent and it was flagged.
Spent 1.5 hrs in a room trying to explain my constitutional rights to fellow Americans who seemed not to care one bit.

Have to travel again next week. Taking bets that the red flag comes up again. Should leave earlier just to make sure.

Sorry state of affairs.

Without the 2nd amendment, things would be much worse.

Thank God there's a gun show this weekend.

[pax]

Wow. What an unbelievable story. :what:

Unfortunately, not unbelievable enough. :(

pax

You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence. -- Charles Austin Beard

[Al Thompson]

Actuallyy, the TSA guy has a point. Anything you have to pay annual taxes on (rent) is owned by whoever collects the tax (rent).

[benewton]

And we begin to fire for effect when???

[BowStreetRunner]

oh my, this man has a pocket constitution and mentioned the evil 2nd Am, he must be a militia type and might have a gun!
:barf: :rolleyes:

[JohnBT]

I thought the government already proved they owned everything. Remember the War Between the States?

John

[Ed Brunner]

They fear the Constitution.
Simple as that.

[NukemJim]

Ugh ! to put it mildly.

First off I would make sure I took nothing that could possibly be interpeted as a weapon with you on your carry on. I (being paranoid) would even carry a marker with a dull point for the flight .

Second judging from your post, we share some common view points. If you are as stubborn as I am you may want to conside some of the following. It is worth what you paid for it (i.e. nothing )

Carry on with your 1st ammendment rights ( while it is still legal ).

Talk to a lawyer before trying any of these ideas. Ask him/her about sending a registered letter to TSA asking why this occured and if it is going to happen in the future.

I would have with me a portable tape recorder with extra batteries and tapes as well as a small notebool with a marker ( no possible weapon, stupid I know but this whole situation is ). As soon as you get asked to speak to a supervisor get their name and write it down, right in front of them ( I hope you are traveling with companions by the way ) if asked to go inot a office (You have to if you want to fly of course) say as long as I can tape whatever is said or have a witness present. When they ask you questions about being " a radical" respond with questions about when the constitution became void and don't they work for the Federal Gov. ? You will probably be delayed and searched by hand.

The above is only if you are ornery like I am and have time to spare.

Best wishes and good luck whichever way you play it. That situatin is abysmal to say the least.

NukemJim

[Erik]

There is a time and a place for everything, so they say.

Regarding firearms, the middle of a security checkpoint in an airport is not one of them.

[Diesle]

There is a time and a place for everything, so they say.....


DING DING DING



Hey TSA dude, ever hear the one about the bomb and the bartender.......?


As Grandpa used to say, smarten up boy.....


Diesle

[Leatherneck]

Erik and diesle are missing the point. Feedthehogs apparently understood the consequences of his words, if not before they were uttered, then certainly now. The troubling aspect of this tale is the perceived indifference of the Feds to a citizen's rights, and their readiness to harass him at the drop of a hat. Deeply troubling. :fire:

TC
TFL Survivor

I'd go with NukemJim's approach WRT a confrontational letter from a lawyer.

[feedthehogs]

My "delay to the gate" was not due to the mention of the second amendment but due to the general attitude I seemed to express according to the officials.

That attitude by the way was not loud or boisterious but firm in my convictions.

No mention of the word gun was ever uttered by me.

It was I believe my choice to stand up for my convictions and rights.

Rather than ignore an ignorant persons comments, I will take the time to try and educate them to the facts and truths according to those founding documents.

As we all know government does not like to be reminded who really runs and owns the show.

The pocket constitution is the 3rd best thing to carry with you.
Firearm and knife of course are 1 and 2.

[geekWithA.45]

Lemme get this straight, and strip it down:


-Government agent asserts that the government owns everything, including the clothes you are wearing.

-Citizen pulls out the owners manual, (Constitution) to refute government agent.

-More agents appear, and escort the citizen to interrogation

-Citizen is subsequently "flagged" as suspicious, and selected for "special treatment".

[SIZE=3]***?/SIZE]

This sounds very much like the kind of thing that my Dad used to talk about happening behind the Iron Curtain, and for which we gave thanks that we're American. What's next? Mental hospitals for such folks?

Not Acceptable. Not Even Slighty.:fire:

[ballistic gelatin]

And we begin to fire for effect when???

[Henry Bowman]

Love your handle! :D

[JDSlack]

I have noted a similar reaction to a copy of the Constitution. There seems to be an automatic (or maybe semi-automatic) response that anyone who possesses, much less quotes such a radical document is suspect. I chalk it up to "...ignorance breeds fear" and some of the TSA employees I have met are the most ignorant people on earth.

[Kharn]

Note to self: When traveling by air, do not make an effort to pop security person's brain like a pimple. Auntie would be disappointed if I missed my connecting flight.

Kharn

[rock jock]

I suspect there is more to this story than is being related here. We weren't there so it is not possible to discern your actions based on your post. However, as a general rule, when any person in a security-sensitive area becomes agitated and begins to act irrationally, the gendarmes will be called. I am not saying that you acted irrationally or were in a highly agitated state because, again, I wasn't there. But, there are two sides to every story. I would say this, if you feel you have a legitimate complaint that will hold up to scrutiny, by all means contact an attorney and inquire about civil action. The TSA does not have a right to suppress free speech.

[Mute]

How's bout a lawsuit for unlawful detention? Might not win, but it'll give these jerks a little bit of grief.

[bogie]

Now, what I wanna know, is where I can buy a nice, sturdy, pocket copy of the constitution, including the bill of rights?

You know, the next time I fly, I'm probably going to have a pocket full of cash, my car/house keys, my wallet, and be wearing my little gold 1911 earring and wearing a Knob Creek shirt. I say we wear 'em down.

[foghornl]

Last time I had to fly, I noticed that the TSA# people were wearing the 3-button golf/polo style shirts with the TSA logo "embroidered" on them. They were not showing ANY sort of visible ID...no photo badge, no employee number ...zilch nada nothing. That way, you have no way to accurately describe them if you have a complaint, other than "...a 19-year-old pimply-faced badly bleached-blond lout with one earing..."

# TSA =

T hievery (and)
S tealing
??? ociates

[BigG]

If the gomt can tax our income and our property, for all intents and purposes we are enslaved. If you disagree, explain how we are not.

[ballistic gelatin]

Anybody seen that ad for the ammunition t-shirt that shows the best way to make groundhogs dance? I can't remember if it's Remington, Federal or Winchester.

[Cosmoline]

Just step into an airport.

I avoid them at all costs now. Lord knows what they'll do to me if they ever find some trace of IMR 3031 on my shoes.

The power to tax is the power to destroy. That's established fact. The only thing that keeps us from being slaves is the notion that we elect our own government. This has a lot of validity when the sheriff you elect comes to question you. If you think he's full of it, by ginger you can run against him. If that sheriff has handled too many people roughly, you stand a good chance of winning and booting him out. The same thing applies if you think your state legislator has unfairly taxed you, or if you think the local planning commission screwed up. When votes are measured in the thousands, one person can make a difference.

The notion of representative gov'ment has virtually no meaning when you're dealing with TSA/ATF/FBI/NPS etc. jackboots. They are all are protected civil servants who take orders from unelected officials. The only connection to you is via the President, and there's NO chance you'd be able to challenge the President, or even get his attention.

This is why the Founding Fathers decided to give the feds only very minimal law enforcement power, and why there was no federal criminal law and no power to impose income or sales taxes. The feds obtained income from import duties, which was in keeping with their role as supervising relations with foreign powers. We've strayed a long way from those days.

[DontShootMe]

Is the US going to be the next Soviet Russia or the next Nazi Germany?

And the bigger question... How long before it becomes obvious to the 'commoner' ???

[ballistic gelatin]

As long as sheeple get to buy DVD players, cell phones, big screen TV's, new cars, new houses, etc, etc, they will never figure it out. And if you're "into" guns, then you're an extremist.

I think we will be assimilated.:(

[Desert Dog]

It is all downhill from here... :(

[JohnBT]

I heard a blurb on the radio today. They were warning fliers to be aware that residue from fireworks could be a problem at the airport...

...similar to the problem golfers have been having from the fertilizer on the golf shoes packed in their luggage.

John

[Sergeant Bob]

bogie Now, what I wanna know, is where I can buy a nice, sturdy, pocket copy of the constitution, including the bill of rights?
The Cato Store (http://www.catostore.org/index.asp?fa=ProductDetails&method=cats&scid=15&pid=144278-A) $4.95
It's a pretty nice copy, with the Declaration of Independence and Constitution with amendments. I got mine free about two years ago by mentioning Paul Harvey. Don't know if there's still some way to get that deal though.

[feedthehogs]

There is no second side to this incident.

I have been carrying a pocket constitution for years and have had the same response whenever it has been used to remind someone of exactly what my rights are.

I fly quite a bit for business and my odds for this type of situation goes up.


Before 9/11 I was flying thru Baltimore and got pulled at the carry on bag check for a spot check.
I was wearing my NRA instructor shirt at the time. I'm not a closet 2nd amendment supporter.
When they pulled out the forcepts with the cotton swab I knew they were checking for expolsive residue on the zippers.

Since my one briefcase is used to teach CCW classes and thus range use, I told them the results should be positive which they were.

The agent was respectful and asked if they could open and search the case to which I replied okay. He got on the phone and in about two minutes the biggest state cop with the biggest German Shepard I had ever seen arrived to supervise the search. Nothing was found of course and they let me proceed.

Both the agent and the officer were respectful to me and I to them in return. The way it should be.

Since 9/11 I have found this respect for US citizens has gone by the wayside especially since the workers have been federalized. I would like to know what they tell those workers.

[Jmurman]

They fear the Constitution.

true...

[Moparmike]

Slightly OT, but after being a member for a month and reading a significant amount of posts, I get the feeling that there is some sort of civil war coming reguarding the ownership of firearms. Could just be me, but its a eerie feeling I just cant shake.

I will have to get one of those pocket Constitutions.

[Orthonym]

I got mine from the Rutherford Institute.