Guns in Munich


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Brinson
August 1, 2007, 01:41 PM
In the movie Munich they had these pipes that looked like just the barrel of a gun or something...and they loaded them...and when they hit the end they shot...I've never seen anything like this before, but I know nothing about guns, Do you know what these are called?

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El Tejon
August 1, 2007, 01:52 PM
Zip guns, well, well-made zip guns.:)

PILMAN
August 1, 2007, 01:53 PM
They were disguised as bicycle pumps, like mentioned above they were zip guns. They are generally not legal firearms that are sold in stores, normally made out of different materials. Heres more info about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_gun

Bazooka Joe71
August 1, 2007, 02:04 PM
IIRC, they didn't even make a noise when they were fired.

Very realistic.:D

El Tejon
August 1, 2007, 02:17 PM
Could be. If one were to machine his own zip gun, no reason not to include integral suppressor. With .22 or .32 or other low pressure load, would be very quiet.

The bombmaker was a machinist, remember? He was a toymaker in Beligum.

45Badger
August 1, 2007, 03:51 PM
You guys were watching the zip guns on the boat?:evil:

jlbraun
August 1, 2007, 04:05 PM
You guys were watching the zip guns on the boat?

That was one disturbing scene. On another note, were those .22LR pistols Berettas? What kind?

NeoSpud
August 1, 2007, 04:31 PM
I could've sworn I saw her go for a Seecamp in the dresser, just before she's shot. I wasn't aware Seecamp made that model at the time in which the movie was shot, too...

Can anyone back me up there?

PILMAN
August 1, 2007, 05:11 PM
Wouldn't surprise me, supposedly the models of the berettas used in the movie weren't created until later (in the movie timeframe).

RubenZ
August 1, 2007, 05:22 PM
On another note, were those .22LR pistols Berettas? What kind?


Probably those old Beretta Model 70's. I have one and they are FINE FINE accurate Pistols.

Neo-Luddite
August 1, 2007, 05:23 PM
I'll have to look again--I swore it was a little browning .25 she was going after.

The Berettas, afaik, existed then but the examples used appear newer than the early 70's.

Very well made movie and dark for a spielberg film--the distant shot of the twin towers as a backdrop at the end sent chills up my spine--a very shrewd ending.

yhtomit
August 1, 2007, 05:32 PM
I saw this movie recently, and was very impressed. Luckily for me, I didn't know any of the cast (that I can think of, at least), which makes for a greater immersion in the movie; I like Harrison Ford as an actor (for instance), but if he'd been in this movie, I'd have seen flashes of Han Solo / Jack Ryan / Indiana Jones everywhere.

Can anyone comment as to the guns used by the actual team on which this movie was based?

timothy

RubenZ
August 1, 2007, 05:53 PM
The Main Munich Character was the Hulk :)

buck00
August 1, 2007, 05:55 PM
That was interesting because the woman could have gotten the drop on them with the pistol she had- but she was in a daze of shock and fear. The Israeli team didn't have their zip guns ready as she was reaching for the pistol in the drawer. That part is more true than anything- I've read stories about home defense or cops and their hands are shaking badly , etc, despite all the training.

Bazooka Joe71
August 2, 2007, 04:05 PM
The bombmaker was a machinist, remember? He was a toymaker in Beligum.


Very true, I forgot he was a machinist.

El Tejon
August 2, 2007, 05:04 PM
Baz, the only way to become a true gun nut is to pay attention to the worthless details of a movie that way you argue about what kind of pistol was in the dresser.:neener:

vynx
August 2, 2007, 09:06 PM
I read the book about the Mossad guys that went after the Terrosrists from Munich many years ago - it was sort of like the movie. Supposedly, co-written by one of th Mossad agents.

In the book they said the Mossad had Beretta .22 shorts - the model with the tip up barrel and they were "fixed" so they were single shot and the action did not eject the shells. This was to reduce noise and to not leave "trace" evidence (.22 short sell casings).

According to the book - and this differs from the movie they got up close to the subjects like waiting for an elevator and fired point blank into the back of the head with a .22 short. No chance to miss, hit a innocent bystander, leave shell casings.

EmGeeGeorge
August 2, 2007, 09:08 PM
it was a beretta 950, I do believe, with nickel finish

on the boat, in her drawer... i noticed the 2nd time I watched the movie...

PILMAN
August 6, 2007, 02:26 PM
I read the book about the Mossad guys that went after the Terrosrists from Munich many years ago - it was sort of like the movie. Supposedly, co-written by one of th Mossad agents.

In the book they said the Mossad had Beretta .22 shorts - the model with the tip up barrel and they were "fixed" so they were single shot and the action did not eject the shells. This was to reduce noise and to not leave "trace" evidence (.22 short sell casings).

According to the book - and this differs from the movie they got up close to the subjects like waiting for an elevator and fired point blank into the back of the head with a .22 short. No chance to miss, hit a innocent bystander, leave shell casings.

Yeah in the movie, you can see the cleanup guy pick up a shell casing while the blood is pouring into the milk.

MikePGS
August 6, 2007, 02:51 PM
For some reason or another i couldn't really get into the movie. That being said, i got as far as the scene where they make their first hit and i was pretty impressed that they actually showed them racking the slides to chamber a round as opposed to already having one chambered, which from what i've heard is actual procedure amongst Israel's military.

Anonymous Coward
August 6, 2007, 04:24 PM
The source for Munich is a book called "Vengeance." The author says the Mossad used unsuppressed Beretta 70s in .22 LR and were taught to draw and rack the slide in a single motion, and to double-tap the subject until the magazine ran dry.

ConfuseUs
August 6, 2007, 05:15 PM
There's another book about the Israeli covert operations against Black September called The Hit Team by David Tinnin and Dag Christiansen.
It covers the revenge operation on Black September up to the point where the Israelis goof and assassinate an innocent man who strongly resembled Ali Hassan Salameh in Norway. That's when the story came out about the secret war the Israelis and Palestinians waged in Europe.

The guns the Israelis used on the boat are easy enough to make. IIRC they were basically a barrel with the breech end capped with a striker activated by slapping the end cap. You could probably make one without the suppressor in a couple of hours if you had a barrel, lathe, and some odds and ends to make the endcap. And the bike pump casing too.

I suppose that BATFE would consider it an AOW instead of a bike pump though.

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