Simple Question: Best 10mm


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Agent 86
August 2, 2007, 03:39 PM
Like the title says what is the best 10mm handgun out there. It doesn't matter if it is in production or discontinued.

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mljdeckard
August 2, 2007, 03:49 PM
Understand, my experience is limited, but if I had to take one, sight unseen and use it, I would take a Glock. I have heard they will eat up both lite and full-house loads with no problem, and if you are already used to the G-17 and/or G-21 manual of arms, the adjustment is minimal.

Would you be using full-house or lite?

Agent 86
August 2, 2007, 03:53 PM
I would use both, but probably lite loads a little more often.

Charles S
August 2, 2007, 03:58 PM
Of all the 10mms I have shot and handled I personally like the 610 the best, and the truth of the matter is I really prefer autos most of the time. My S&W 610 can shoot the lightest 40 to the hottest 10mm without problems, is very accurate, and surprisingly enough to me very fast with the moon clips.

However if you limit the selection to autoloaders the S&W 1006 may be one of the best - I don't have one, but I really like them. I like the 1076 also.

I am having a 10 mm upper built for my one of my 1911s I hope it turns out to be a good choice also.

Deer Hunter
August 2, 2007, 03:58 PM
Smith and Wesson's 10xx series were built for the original full-house loads. And if you like 1911s, take a look at Dan Wesson's 10mm offerings.

yhtomit
August 2, 2007, 04:09 PM
Ignorant question, but ..

If you're shooting 10mm, will you be (or do you plan to possibly be) shooting many reloads?

If the answer to that is Yes, might you be better off with a third-party barrel for the gun, so as not to shoot too much lead in the polygonal rifling?

Not experienced with Glocks or with 10mm, but that seems to be the consensus re: Glocks in other calibers, not true?

timothy

REC
August 2, 2007, 04:09 PM
S&W 10xx series (and particularly the 1066)

CWL
August 2, 2007, 06:46 PM
I would use both, but probably lite loads a little more often.

Pardon me butting in, if you plan on mostly shooting 10mm lite loads, then why not stick with the .40S&W? It'll be cheaper, much cheaper to feed.

Are you aware that the .40S&W originated as a reduced-load solution for 10mm after the FBI found out that many of their Agents couldn't handle the 10mm cartridge?

10-Ring
August 2, 2007, 07:13 PM
I've shot a few 10 mm pistols and owned one (the S&W 1076). I sold the Smith because I never got used to the grip, but I loved the way it shot. If you can find one, and if it fits, the Smith is a nice option. Also, the G20 is a good option.

jfh
August 2, 2007, 07:41 PM
1. I had a Glock 20 (one of the first) and I blew it up before 300 rounds went through. I think it was the polygonal-rifling-and-lead-bullets issue, but I might have double-charged a case. I didn't replace it because I didn't (and don't) want to shoot plastic guns any more; I sold my other two Glocks.

2. I've put 1000s of rounds through an SA Omega--this was an early 10mm 1911 with a special top end--could shoot anything through it, and its polygonal rifling did not particularly lead up.

3. I have a 1006 I've shot little--perhaps 500 rounds, then set aside. I just dug it out and it's at the 'smith's getting tuned up. Comments above are right--the 10xx Smiths will handle any 10 load. And, I've heard only good things about the Smith 10mm revolvers. The downside, of course, is the S&W ergonomics: 'backwards' safety operation, and a trigger you can't tune up like a 1911 trigger. The upside, of course, is its durability and reliability.

4. A few weeks ago I got a 10mm top end for my EAA Witness. Works fine with target loads; have to chase an accurate reload recipe for it. Unless you are seeking a semiauto 10mm and plan to always shoot firewall loads, I think this could be an excellent economical package IF you get one without QC problems. (Do a search on this issue.) CZ-75-type pistols are the modern version of 1911 ergonomics, which is a real plus. EAA has a beautiful 'Match' version, but it doesn't seem to be imported--maybe in any caliber.

4. Yesterday I bought a new Kimber "Stainless Target II"--very impressed with the QC on it, but I haven't shot it yet. The price--$950.00, storefront--seemed to be fair for being a 'complete' updated 1911 package. If this pistol works well, it strikes me as the current ideal 10mm setup: 1911 ergonomics, 10mm power and flexibility.

Nowadays I'm really just into shooting a 10mm target load--e.g., Lead of whatever weight under 1000 FPS. I have components for 1000s and 1000s of 10mm loads I bought 12-15 years ago.

.40 S&W will be more economical because of brass costs and smaller loads, but in my experience it is a more fussy round to sort out for reloading.

BTW, CWL, the FBI's issues with the 10 were not only use of the early and only max loads, but also the problems of large-frame guns at a time more and more agents were women. The .40 S&W has been a rip-roaring success because, I think, of its availability in medium-frame guns at a time when large-capacity autoloaders became all the rage.

The early SD rounds in 10mm also were not producing good results. However, I suspect the HP bullet development of the last 15 years has eased that problem.

So, to sum up: if you are a 1911 freak, the current Kimber 10 may be the 'best' current pistol out there. If you like (or don't mind) S&W ergonomics and trigger, a 10xx would be a good way to go. Be aware, though, that S&W collectors are on to those 10xx pistols, and prices are up.

Charles S: Is your upper going to be a switch-out package? If so, how is your 'smith handling the ejector size issue between 10mm and 45 ACP? Or is your frame set up for the 9mm/38Super variant?



Jim H.

Charles S
August 2, 2007, 08:13 PM
Is your upper going to be a switch-out package? If so, how is your 'smith handling the ejector size issue between 10mm and 45 ACP? Or is your frame set up for the 9mm/38Super variant?

Yes it is...,but the only way we could get around the ejector issue was a complete upper...meaning slide and all. Yes, it is a little expensive, but for me it was the easiest way of setting up a 10mm on a 1911 frame. BTW my gunsmith recommended a few changes to the frame that would not affect the 45 ACP upper. Honestly I would like to build a 9X23 upper for the same government frame.

8830
August 2, 2007, 08:42 PM
I've owned Colt Delta Elite, Glock 20, 29, S&W 610 4", 1006,1086, 1066, EAA Witness 6" and T/C Contender with 10" barrel. Out of all those I like the 610 the best and the 1086 second best. I always wanted a 6.5" but they cost way too much now. S&W didn't make enough of those and I wish they would bring them back. The G20 was reliable while the G29 was not. I like to think that the best 10mm was the Grizzly LAR. That big frame shooting full power loads had to be pure joy.

Richard
August 2, 2007, 08:51 PM
I started with a Glock 21 and a 10mm conversion barrel. This pistol got me hooked on 10mms. I still have the Glock 21 with the 10mm conversion barrel but I do most of my 10mm shooting with a Dan Wesson that I am very partial to. Regards, Richard:D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid220/p90f92172c4f0b3c1725d61c953c42e1a/ebccd3eb.jpg

Crunker1337
August 2, 2007, 10:17 PM
Charles S: hold up, I didn't know you can shoot .40S&W in a 10mm gun!
Also, what parts are you using to convert your .45 1911 to 10mm?

Richard, what kit did you use to convert your 21 to 10mm? Or did you just swap out the barrels and have it work a-ok?

bluetopper
August 2, 2007, 11:50 PM
Dan Wesson............period.

jeff-10
August 2, 2007, 11:54 PM
Best is entirely too subjective. If you are looking to purchase a 10mm get a Glock 20 or a Dan Wesson RZ.

critter
August 3, 2007, 07:00 AM
My only experience with the 10mm is with my Colt Delta Elite Enhanced. It does very well, indeed, thank you. Fun gun and round!

madmattmd
August 3, 2007, 07:29 AM
I currently own a Springfield Omega 10mm (1911 frame with a 6 ported barrel/slide using a linkless Glock style system by Peters-Stahl), Glock 20 10mm (also have a KKM .40 S&W conversion barrel for it I use in IDPA), and an IAI (AMT) Javelina 5 1911 in 10mm. Id love to find a S&W 610 and a Colt Delta Elite.

Of these, Id have to say the Omega is my favorite 10mm range gun. The 6 slide and ported barrel really tame the 10mm cartridge and you still get the big boom and flames! For self/home defense, I keep the Glock at hand. 15 rounds of 10mm is certainly all I could need in most situations.

The 10mm is my favorite semi-auto pistol round. It can be loaded to provide excellent performance for most any need.

Matt

Charles S
August 3, 2007, 07:35 AM
Charles S: hold up, I didn't know you can shoot .40S&W in a 10mm gun!

Only a S&W 610 revolver...I am unaware of the ability to shoot any other 10 mm with 40 S&W ammo.

Also, what parts are you using to convert your .45 1911 to 10mm?

Literally it is a complete upper...slide, barrel, sights, etc. You switch upper and use different magazines, then you are ready to shoot. The upper must have been previously fitted to the individual frame for best results.

Peter M. Eick
August 3, 2007, 07:41 AM
Best?

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/hwml_grips3.jpg

One of a kind(?) Les Baer 10mm Heavyweight Monolith with a 1.5" option, tactical rounding and 8 mags.

Dang good?

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/610_65_target.jpg

Original 610, 50 shots 15 yrds, first time out with the gun. The one pulled shot is the first one down the barrel after I got it.

Reasonably good?

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/rz_target.jpg

Dan Wesson Razorback. Reasonable good gun, better then the Colts "I" have seen but nowhere near the fit or finish of the Baer.

Charles S
August 3, 2007, 08:21 AM
Peter that is how my 610 shoots. I feel perfectly comfortable with mine shooting Deer sized game at 75 yards. I feel that 75 yards is a reasonable limit for me with an open sited handgun and the power level of the 10 mm. As I stated before I love my 610.

BTW the Baer is incredible. I would love to shoot it. Great gun.

Richard
August 3, 2007, 10:05 AM
Crunker1337, I shoot a Glock 21 with the 10mm KKM barrel and 21# spring plus 10mm magazines. In my eyes it is a nice setup but i like a 1911 style pistol better and this explains why I love the Dan Wesson 10mm. Regards, Richard:D

Peter M. Eick
August 3, 2007, 10:33 AM
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/baer_razor_target.jpg

While the RZ is a good gun, if you look at the target you have a 5 shot group at I believe was 50 ft (it was a while back, so it might be 15 yards). If you look at the Baer HWML, that is an 8 shot (full magazine) at 50 yards with Silvertips which are not known for being exceptionally accurate. This is the reason that the RZ will never compete with the Baer. Also when you rack the slide the RZ is like on glass. Not like a Sig 210 but close. The RZ is like my colt gov 380. Sort of like rubbing your hand across a wood desktop. Not smooth, but not rough enough to do something about it. Also the Baer is fully supported chamber while the RZ is more conventional throated.

The key thing to me is simple. If you want raw power and accuracy out of a 10mm get a 610. They can take far more then the 10mm 1911's can anyday. If you want to beat the tar out of a 10mm with hot loads and not have a problem get a Witness. If you want mag capacity and a reasonably good to very good gun (depending if you can deal with the squishy plastic frame during recoil get a g20.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/10mm_collection.jpg

Here is a very old picture of my 10mms back in the day before I started dumping the ones I did not like and getting better ones.

jeff-10
August 3, 2007, 11:43 AM
Also it seems that STI and/or Fusion Arms are now making and selling a 10mm longslide.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=77377439

clang
August 3, 2007, 01:01 PM
I can't speak much about other guns, but I have a S&W 610 with 6.5" barrel and a S&W 1076.

The 610 is a tack driver and will also shoot .40S&W. The Smith N frames are a proven platform for the .44 mag, so it can handle the hottest 10mm no problem. Recoil is not bad with hot loads.

The 1076 has the side decocker like a Sig. Single stack 9 round magazine. This gun is built like a tank and I find it hard to believe that anyone in the FBI approved this gun as the standard weapon for it's agents because it is heavy for a carry gun. It handles even the hottest loads no problem, and has been 100% reliable.

If either of these guns fit your description of "Best", I wholeheartedly recommend them. If you need more firepower (15 rounds) in a lighter setup, the Glock may be what you are looking for.

Crunker1337
August 3, 2007, 02:20 PM
Crunker1337, I shoot a Glock 21 with the 10mm KKM barrel and 21# spring plus 10mm magazines.

Thanks for the info
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by "21# spring plus 10mm magazines"?
Also, have you experienced any loss of reliability or accuracy in your GLOCK when firing either 10mm or .45ACP? Some people who've tried the 21 to 10mm conversion have said they lost a lot of reliability. They've only been able to get the conversion to work after additional modification besides exchanging barrels.
This got me wondering - since it's possible to convert a GLOCK 21 to 10mm, does that mean the same GLOCK can be used to shoot .40S&W and .357SIG in addition to 10mm and .45ACP?

The Fusion Firearms 1911 looks pretty nice.

I think everyone seems to be forgetting the EAA Witness. It looks a bit like a 1911/S&W M&P crossbreed and I've heard fairly positive reviews about it.

Does anyone know of any doublestack 10mm 1911s?

yhtomit
August 3, 2007, 11:56 PM
Peter - what you're calling a "pulled" shot I'd be pretty proud of ;) That makes me want to get a 610 to go along with my 625 ... ack! Shooting guns is too expensive, because of the desires it provokes.

timothy

Peter M. Eick
August 4, 2007, 08:02 PM
Yeah it was a pulled shot or more likely a clean barrel.

Here is what I can do when I really try:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/single_action.jpg

50 shots, 15 yards, standing with my 1939 Registered Magnum

shooter1
August 4, 2007, 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by Richard
Crunker1337, I shoot a Glock 21 with the 10mm KKM barrel and 21# spring plus 10mm magazines.

Are you using the 21 extractor? If the gun is functioning properly, great! I would have thought you would need to change to the mdl 20 extractor to get reliable extraction due to the difference in the size of the case head.
str1

cdsdss
August 4, 2007, 10:18 PM
I've owned four 10mms. Here goes:

1) BREN TEN--Great pistol. Handles the 10 perfectly. The big downside is that if you can find one, they'll generally run you three grand. As long as that's not a problem...

2) EAA WITNESS--It's big, sturdy, and reliable. Trigger pull is crisp and the gun is quite accurate. I'm not thrilled with a 1911-type safety on a DA/SA pistol, but this quibble aside it's an excellent budget pistol (mine was less than $400 new).

3) S&W 1006--Full-size, sturdy, and elegant. The DA trigger pull was long and spongy, though.

4) S&W 1076--What a frustrating gun! Beautiful design, flawless functioning. The DA trigger pull is quite crisp, but the SA trigger is heavy with a late break. It takes a lot of discipline to shoot the gun well, and even then I have to slow fire. When I do, these are the results:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h288/cdsdss/1076target152.jpg

shooter1
August 5, 2007, 08:16 AM
I have owned two 10mms. A Glock 20 and an EAA Witness. I sold the Glock and kept the Witness for my 10mm fun. I bought a Wolff calibration spring kit for it, and settled on the 20# recoil spring and the +power firing pin spring. Function with this setup was 100%. I had a problem finding my brass, as this pistol launched it into low earth orbit. I shortened the ejector about 1/16" or so and now the brass lands in the same zip code. I loved the ergonomics of the pistol, and loved the C&L carry option. I built up the safety with JB weld and reshaped it to make it easier to sweep on the draw like my 1911s. I even carried it as a duty weapon for a few years. I liked the pistol enough that I currently own it in 9mm and .45 as well. Not to mention a .40 barrel for the 10mm to take advantage of the availability of dept range ammo. For $360 out the door, my Wonder Finish 100 Witness is my idea of an ideal 10mm.
str1

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