Carjackers try for truck -- get lead instead


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camacho
August 2, 2007, 07:23 PM
From todays Miami-Herald:
http://www.miamiherald.com/466/story/190335.html

Carjackers try for truck -- get lead instead
BY ERIKA BERAS AND JENNIFER RODRIGUEZ
Two carjackers tried to get away with Bruce Williams' pickup truck early Thursday morning.

But Williams was packing a gun.

Not only did they not get his vehicle, one of the carjackers got blasted by the would-be victim, who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

They got away though.

According to Bill Robertson, spokesman for the Miramar Police Department, this is what happened:

Shortly before dawn, Williams made an ATM withdrawal at the Wachovia Bank at 6810 Miramar Pkwy. As he stepped away, he noticed a small brown Toyota circling the parking lot. As he got back into his 2007 white Lincoln Mark pickup, two men in their 20s approached him and demanded he get out.

''There was no mention of money,'' Robertson said. ``They just wanted his truck.''

He quickly got out and gave up his keys.

Then one of the robbers shot at Williams.

Williams drew his own gun, a .44-special, and fired five rounds at the driver. At least one of the bullets hit the would-be carjacker.

During the commotion, the pickup truck, which was in drive, continued to move driverless, crashing into a building.

The would-be carjackers ran off. Police believe they were picked up by the driver of the Toyota, who took off as soon as bullets started flying.

Miramar police recovered the truck, with blood inside.

Williams, 57, of Opa-locka was being questioned by Miramar police Thursday. Williams has a concealed weapons permit.

Emergency rooms were being monitored in case the man with the bullet wound should happen to show up.

Herald correspondent Raul Torres contributed to this report.

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41magsnub
August 2, 2007, 07:28 PM
Off topic, but what kind of freak drives a Lincoln pick up truck? Oh .. wait.. this is Miami. Nevermind...

trueblue1776
August 2, 2007, 07:30 PM
but what kind of freak drives a Lincoln pick up truck?

pretty funny, I agree :D

camacho
August 2, 2007, 07:34 PM
Off topic, but what kind of freak drives a Lincoln pick up truck?

You said it, this is S. Florida :eek:

Fred Fuller
August 2, 2007, 07:38 PM
Maybe he's a Travis McGee fan and a Lincoln was the best he could do (no more Rolls Royce pickups around)...

lpl/nc

Bruce333
August 2, 2007, 07:45 PM
As he got back into his 2007 white Lincoln Mark pickup, two men in their 20s approached him and demanded he get out.
''There was no mention of money,'' Robertson said. ``They just wanted his truck.''
He quickly got out and gave up his keys.Hmmm...I guess they were brandishing a gun? Story doesn't say anything about a gun until they shot at him. Why else would he just give up his keys...

Black Adder LXX
August 2, 2007, 07:50 PM
And THAT is why I stay out of Miramar... Lincoln pickups :)

Is it me or has there been a lot of FLA shooting stories lately?

fletcher
August 2, 2007, 07:53 PM
He quickly got out and gave up his keys.

Then one of the robbers shot at Williams.


That can't happen. Police Chief Friendly promised me nobody would get hurt if they complied with criminals.


Good for that guy. It's a shame he didn't shoot them both.

Thefabulousfink
August 2, 2007, 07:54 PM
I think that this is a textbook example of measured response from a CCWer. He attempted to end the encounter nonviolently until the scum robbing him tried to kill him. It seems a good case against the ANTI argument that CCWers are all trigger-happy yahoos.

joab
August 2, 2007, 07:57 PM
Story doesn't say anything about a gun until they shot at him. Why else would he just give up his keys...That story left out more details than anti stories usually do

What ever happened to journalism?
Are all reporters these days just high school kids out for extra credit?

Geno
August 2, 2007, 08:00 PM
Guy must have been a Top Gun fan..."Do not fire until fired upon!" He should have been firing as he exited. Per the fact that they shot at him, they intended all along to kill him. But then, it is easy to Thursday evening quarterback.

spin180
August 2, 2007, 08:09 PM
What's wrong with driving one of these?

http://media.ford.com/products/2006_Mark_LT/technology_4445_360.jpg

If he likes it and has the means to afford it, then good for him.


Geez...

Might as well ask what kind of freak would carry a gun.

:rolleyes:

Bazooka Joe71
August 2, 2007, 08:19 PM
How come half of the reply's have been about a friggin truck? Who cares?



it is easy to Thursday evening quarterback.


I don't get it, you mean Monday morning?:D


Ah, I see...Today is Thursday :D

41magsnub
August 2, 2007, 08:23 PM
My mocking of the truck choice is based on my location. Only a complete fool would use a lincoln (or caddy for that matter) truck for truck stuff. Imagine a load of gravel in the back of that... or even driving it down a gravel road. What a waste. No Montanan (native anyway) would be caught dead in one of those. The out of staters that come in and buy one so they have a truck and can blend in are roundly mocked.

That said, I'm glad to see another example of a good and appropriate use CCW story even if my respect for the gentleman is diminished by his vehicular choices :).

sm
August 2, 2007, 08:27 PM
Thefabulousfink wrote :
I think that this is a textbook example of measured response from a CCWer. He attempted to end the encounter nonviolently until the scum robbing him tried to kill him. It seems a good case against the ANTI argument that CCWers are all trigger-happy yahoos.

Excellent post!

SteelyNirvana
August 2, 2007, 09:14 PM
You guys should watch the bickering about the kind of truck. You know a mod will show up soon and lock the thread if you don't:rolleyes:

Eyesac
August 2, 2007, 09:40 PM
Great story.

Bones11b
August 2, 2007, 11:57 PM
I wasn't there but I'm pretty sure if i was getting car jacked and was already drawn upon I would leave the truck in drive and quickly step out, use the trucks forward movement as a distraction to draw my ccw weapon and fire at my would be assailants. Then as always when the cops showed up (finally) state that I was fired upon first and only then returned fire. I've said it before and it bears repeating FL has too many guns now for criminals to be the only ones owning them. You can expect to see alot more of these self defense shootings especially here in the SE region.

jhunter
August 3, 2007, 12:09 AM
Great story. Too bad the anti-gun folks will never use this. I dont know if I would have been able to just hand over my keys. I guess it would depend on who it was, and what I thought they were up to. Good for this guy to not open fire and allowing the situation to possibly end with just a truck lost instead of a life. Good for him for getting one of them and staying alive.

As for the truck, if you put down the truck, you put down the double cab ford as well. They are the same truck. Just like the Navigator and Expedition. So if you could not drive that POS down a dirt road, you could not take a ford down it either. Discussion not related and for another day however.

And, I collect these stories in a word document I have going. If anyone knows of other good ones, let me know. Its called "reasons to own a gun"

Outlaws
August 3, 2007, 12:24 AM
Only a complete fool would use a lincoln (or caddy for that matter) truck for truck stuff. Imagine a load of gravel in the back of that... or even driving it down a gravel road. What a waste. No Montanan (native anyway) would be caught dead in one of those. The out of staters that come in and buy one so they have a truck and can blend in are roundly mocked.


How is that any different from someone using a Ford F150 King Ranch (http://www.autoviaggiando.com/archivio/2006/02/22-ford-f150-gloria-e-leggenda-damerica/large%20di%2018%20-%20ford%20f-150%20king%20ranch%20-%2003.jpg)? ;) That isn't far off the Lincoln's interior...or price. But it says "Ford" so its still somehow okay I guess. :banghead:

camacho
August 3, 2007, 01:01 AM
Is it me or has there been a lot of FLA shooting stories lately?


My wife and I were just talking about this today. It seems like there have been more recently!

camacho
August 3, 2007, 01:05 AM
Imagine a load of gravel in the back of that...

It is hard to imagine that here. If you go to South Beach, down in Miami, you a can see a load of babes in the back of those but that's about it :)

gunsmith
August 3, 2007, 01:18 AM
excellent suggestion! (leaving the vehicle in drive) if it could be pointed at the bad guys it is a plus as well, thanks

fireflyfather
August 3, 2007, 01:48 AM
I wasn't there but I'm pretty sure if i was getting car jacked and was already drawn upon I would leave the truck in drive and quickly step out, use the trucks forward movement as a distraction to draw my ccw weapon and fire at my would be assailants. Then as always when the cops showed up (finally) state that I was fired upon first and only then returned fire. I've said it before and it bears repeating FL has too many guns now for criminals to be the only ones owning them. You can expect to see alot more of these self defense shootings especially here in the SE region.

So, you admit on a public gun forum likely to be looked at by prosecutors, wrongful death plaintiff's lawyers and perp's defense lawyers that you plan to fire first (not unreasonable given a gun pointed at you), and then LIE TO THE COPS ABOUT IT? Good job. Go to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

joab
August 3, 2007, 02:26 AM
No need to lie in Florida
Carjacking is a shootable offense here, we don't have to make excuses

Caimlas
August 3, 2007, 02:48 AM
I think that this is a textbook example of measured response from a CCWer. He attempted to end the encounter nonviolently until the scum robbing him tried to kill him. It seems a good case against the ANTI argument that CCWers are all trigger-happy yahoos.

No, this is an example of some yahoo with a gun and a Lincoln pickup truck getting really, really damn lucky. Apparently they shot at him. This means they were trying to kill him, and he was fortunate that the criminals were poor shots. His delayed response was not "measured response" it was "delayed response".

If someone is committing armed robbery against you, you are not a "trigger-happy yahoo" to shoot him with prejudice, immediately.

And I don't know about you, but having someone take anywhere from a full year's worth of my time and labor (down to a couple months' worth - or hell, maybe 2 years' worth, I don't know how much a Lincoln Mark costs) by force seems like something worthy of defending with lethal force.

sig228
August 3, 2007, 02:54 AM
No need to lie in Florida

Really. We have "Stand Your Ground / No Duty to Retreat" laws thanks to our former pro 2A governor. Thanks Jeb. :D

phaed
August 3, 2007, 02:56 AM
hope the owner is alright, and the would be car-jacker is still bleeding out in an alley somewhere.

XDandy
August 3, 2007, 04:24 PM
It should be a law that if your shot while robbing someone, you should have to pay for everything you bleed on. Poor guy now has a brand new, fancy truck with blood stains in it... it's a shame.

miket_81
August 3, 2007, 05:04 PM
Ya make fun of a guy with a nice truck. They are very nice by the way.
I have a farm truck and a HWY truck for going to office and pulling trailers.

More criminals should be shot, it would make them think next time.

chieftain
August 3, 2007, 05:33 PM
That said, I'm glad to see another example of a good and appropriate use CCW story even if my respect for the gentleman is diminished by his vehicular choices

Your statement says a lot more about you, then about the fellows choice of fancy pickup trucks.

I think the guy did good. We can pick apart his choice or sequence of actions. Our hero decided that he would not try to kill a man stealing his truck. He would try to kill a man trying to kill him.

As a Florida boy, (Melbourne, Florida for the record Class of 66) who now lives in Arizona, (note the common theme of warm) my resident Florida CCW just ran out 3 years ago. Had both for all most 8 years.

He could have started shooting legally as soon has the BGs tried to "jack" him. But this guy made his own choices.

God Bless him.

Fred

sansone
August 3, 2007, 05:51 PM
great story... hooray a goodguy shot a badguy. I don't care about the vehicle, lets just be glad.. OK?;)

shadowalker
August 3, 2007, 06:25 PM
I'm looking forward to hearing more details, sounds like he did the right thing so far.

If they had a weapon drawn and aimed it makes sense for him not to have fired first, it is hard to win at close range when the bad guy already has you at gun point and your weapon is in your holster. In this sort of situation I'm not real concerned about the bad guys life, just about not getting shot if I don't have to.

Giving them the keys is the smart thing to do, allows them to leave quickly and end the encounter, I have insurance that will cover my truck. It also might provide that second of distraction needed for taking action.

Vonderek
August 3, 2007, 06:42 PM
The official pickup of Calle Ocho:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k98/dreamcatchermedia/cubanpickup.jpg

Erebus
August 3, 2007, 07:00 PM
I wasn't there but I'm pretty sure if i was getting car jacked and was already drawn upon I would leave the truck in drive and quickly step out, use the trucks forward movement as a distraction to draw my ccw weapon and fire at my would be assailants. Then as always when the cops showed up (finally) state that I was fired upon first and only then returned fire. I've said it before and it bears repeating FL has too many guns now for criminals to be the only ones owning them. You can expect to see alot more of these self defense shootings especially here in the SE region.

So, you admit on a public gun forum likely to be looked at by prosecutors, wrongful death plaintiff's lawyers and perp's defense lawyers that you plan to fire first (not unreasonable given a gun pointed at you), and then LIE TO THE COPS ABOUT IT? Good job. Go to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

Agreed if the bad guy doesn't run away and you told the cops you returned fire they might question your story when they realise his gun hadn't been fired.

Autolite
August 3, 2007, 08:09 PM
What "freak" would drive a Lincoln pickup truck ... oil money freaks. Around my neck of the woods Caddie and Lincoln pickups are common and they are usually driven by the wives. I don't begrudge anyone for what they drive. At least they bought American ... :)

langenc
August 3, 2007, 08:14 PM
Great story. I wonder how it would have all ended if the shooter (victim) had spent more time shooting his 44-OR picked something a little smaller that he could shoot. On the otherhand statistics suggest his number of hits was probably above average for the situation.

The Deer Hunter
August 3, 2007, 08:30 PM
Although he didn't make the best choice and get a Chevy, at least he had the sense to CCW.

Breakdaddy
August 3, 2007, 08:43 PM
Good for this gentleman! I only wish that they had been apprehended immediately. Criminal scumbags like this should be fined for public littering just for walking out of their houses.

Autolite
August 3, 2007, 10:02 PM
So the victim gave up his keys and was THEN fired upon. I would be interested to hear an anti's recommendation on how to behave in such a situation ...

Jkwas
August 3, 2007, 10:49 PM
Hey, they sell Lincoln Pickups where I work, What's the problem! You gotta put your golf clubs somewhere!

Tom Servo
August 3, 2007, 11:27 PM
Off topic, but what kind of freak drives a Lincoln pick up truck? Oh .. wait.. this is Miami. Nevermind...
Don't know, but if he's carrying .44spl, I wouldn't question his decision :)

That's not a round generally favored by ignorant yahoos.

Bones11b
August 3, 2007, 11:58 PM
OK perhaps my post wasn't "politically correct" but I was being honest. This is south east florida and the average criminal down here is armed and wont hesitate to fire. If I fired and killed an assailant and he never got a round off I would hope I would have the intelligence not to claim he had "It all happened so fast officer I'm not sure if he got a round off or not.". Yet if I did receive fire from my assailant I would also hope I would have the self preservation to state I was fired upon and returned fire. Was the way I was raised and has kept me alive and out of jail for 31 years. Luckily I do reside in FL so I don't have to deal with any ridiculous retreat laws. Oh and in hindsite I would never lie to a police officer while making a statement, I simply wouldn't make a statement. I would hire a lawyer who has gone to school and learned how to be a professional liar in a court of law. This is the real world and realistically that is the way things work.

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