S & W 617 10 shot Cyl.
Ruger .22/45 w/two clips no mag loader
Each is given 100 rounds
Time each firing at 15 yards
What would be a good fourmula to
award points for:
A) points for first to fire 100 rounds &
B) Score the targets
The revolver has the same relaod whereas
the Semi-AUto has to stop and fill the two magazines.
Ok, let's start with loaded weapons and the Semi-Auto
can have the spare mag. also loaded.
Who do you think would have the advantage ?
Try it with each type of pistol and time it.
or compete with a shooting buddy.
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August 2, 2007, 07:39 PM
I'm gonna bet the nod goes to the platform each is most comfortable with. I can go through a box or 2 of ammo with my 10-shot 617 much faster than any semi-auto I've shot, since I can pick up 4 rounds at a time and just drop them in the cylinder, vs picking up single rounds and pushing them into the mag individually. Others might prefer semi-autos and be faster at loading mags.
The nod usually goes to the semi-auto for ease of reloading, but this is in a situation, such as defense, where an extra loaded mag is handy. At the range, though, my revolvers definitely put more lead downrange per hour.
August 2, 2007, 08:52 PM
My guess would be that the Ruger pistol shooter would be faster than the S&W revolver shooter by a rather insignificant margin, but that the S&W shooter would be fine afterwards, whereas the pistol shooter would be whimpering and looking for a bandage for his torn and bleeding case of reload-thumb :)
August 2, 2007, 09:06 PM
Interesting we have two differing opoions as to
the outcome. I gave the Semi-Auto the loaded
magazines to start with and the revolver also gets
to start loaded - like you would be in the field
plinking at targets of opportunity.
Revolver - doesn't have to worry about losing a magazine.
Semi-AUto guy has to reload without a bench and sit on a stump or
do it standing up if you're walking around.
ALso the formula for time and accuracy should be dev eloped - if one
finishes first the other shouldnn't be reqwarded by taking his time
the more time he takes vs the other hits should count less each minute
he expends trying to do the 10 ring.
by yeah I hadn't though of sore fingers with the semi-auyto magazine reloads.
I cut my teeth on a Hi-Standard DUramatic Semi-Auto
borrowed from an uncle in my mid-teens, and my first handgun was a S & W Model 18 for $ 78 - you remember the price when you know how many
lawns you had to mow and water to earn that much in 1965.
August 2, 2007, 09:19 PM
Well, my 617 is a six shot, so that's gonna throw my time off a bit.
August 2, 2007, 10:05 PM
It would be nice if someebody may speed strips for a 6 shot spaced cyl. in .22 LR as well as 10 shot cyl.
At least you never having to worry about losing your 'mag'
August 2, 2007, 10:16 PM
What if I were to shoot my 2 mags, then start single loading from the breech? I'm thinking that might be a hair quicker than stopping to load mags, at least if you were trying for accurate shooting too.
August 2, 2007, 10:34 PM
Why would it matter? That's the whole reason you've got magazines: so you don't have to load the gun manually at the time that you need to fire it, thus increasing possible rate of fire. For any time when shooting like you mean it isn't an issue, there are mag loading devices which would make the pistol the clear winner, again.
August 2, 2007, 10:53 PM
Now you didn't pay attention to the rules
The rules are to simulate two shooting buddies
walking about on the back 40 one with the wheel gun
and one with a semi-auto. both go out with loaded
weapons - the SA guy has an extra mag. both have two
boxes of 50 rds to begin with....
So, who will be more ready to fire after repeatedly unloading their
weapons and who's going to cover, or fire at targets of oportunity
more often is the point of this competition it might lead guddies to consider the other side of the coin - semi-auto vs revolver and yah know a lot of times semi auto shooters in .22 LR don't buy a lot of extra mags. IME
August 3, 2007, 09:52 PM
Why not have a "contest" between a muzzle loader and a revolver? The catch would be that the revolver shooter would only have 6 pieces of brass and a reloading press, dies, measure, etc.
If I were going into a situation where I knew I would need to fire 100 rounds as fast as possible, I would make sure I had 100 rds worth of magazines. :neener:
BTW; Seeing as how the auto shooter wasn't allowed a mag loader, the revolver guy has to use a single stage press.. (or a tong tool)
August 3, 2007, 11:09 PM
i used to sit and watch tv with a gauage to measure rim thickness to load my smith with the thinnest ones so the cylinder would close. i would go with the auto.
August 4, 2007, 03:09 AM
Something like this could work:
(F*T) + G = Score
T is the time in seconds taken to shoot 100 rounds and G is the group size. F is a constant, and should probably be set to something like .1, so that time is more important, but does not overshadow group size completely. Whoever has the lowest score wins.
August 5, 2007, 03:49 AM
I took my 617 shooting yesterday -- love it -- and I was thinking about this very topic. You can plow through a box of rimfire ammo fast with that 10-shooter.
August 5, 2007, 07:35 PM
Who do you think would have the advantage ?
I think the 617 would be quite a bit faster, accuracy at short distance would be the same.
Peter M. Eick
August 5, 2007, 09:22 PM
I think a lot of this depends upon did you grow up in the era of revolvers or the semi's. I learned to shoot when nearly everyone shot revolvers and we were all taught how to load by two's, proper ejection and procedures to shoot quickly. I know I can load up my DW 722 very quickly and shoot a box awful fast if I set my mind to it.
August 5, 2007, 10:31 PM
You can refill a Ruger .22 magazine pretty quickly, once you get the hang of it. The revolver might have the edge but I can always buy more magazines. No such option for the revolver(HKS speedloaders suuuucccckkkk and Safariland doesn't make a .22 model, AFAIK). ;)
August 5, 2007, 10:49 PM
My 617 does not allow one handed ejection due to it's extremely sticky extraction. Having to use the right hand palm to smack the ejector rod slows down reload times, in addition to being a bad habit. This is a 6 shooter, I can only guess that the 10 shot is stickier. Consider hamburger hands into your reload times.
August 5, 2007, 11:40 PM
I reload a revolver by pressing the cylinder latch with my right thumb as my forefinger pushes the cylinder out, turning the revolver upward. Then my left hand smacks the ejector, sliding off the cylinder down to my speedloaders. My right forefinger holds the cylinder steady. Fast and works with sticky cases, 'long as you have a little muscle in your left arm.
August 6, 2007, 07:26 AM
Having done similar "experiments," the revolver by a good margin (even when the autoloader has a capacity advantage--and the more you shoot, the greater the revolver's advantage).
It would be more of a contest if the semi-auto only had one ten round magazine since the revolver is a 10 rounder. If that was the scenario, I could see it being a pretty tight race if each is familiar with the proper reload drills of the weapons.
August 6, 2007, 02:43 PM
The Ruger is pretty easy to reload, with the little knob on the side of the magazine. Reloader's thumb takes a lot longer than that on a 22/45.
I also have a little holder-downer-thingie for it. Even easier and faster that way. Would I be allowed that?
August 6, 2007, 05:25 PM
I have an older gov't slabside & a Taurus mod 94 (9-shot 22lr) and I've tried something similar to what you've suggested. Both guns can be very fast & accurate if the shooter is familiar w/ each firearm -- 10 pre loaded mags would be infinitely faster than reloading the wheelgun but loading 2 mags 5 times is pretty slow and can be tough on thumbs :eek: ...and in my case reloading my wheelgun 12 times can be a chore too but less traumatic to my thumbs :)
I think, in the right hands, the wheelgun would have a pretty good chance at winning this challenge :cool:
August 6, 2007, 05:51 PM
Don't your Ruger mags have little silver knobs to hold the follower down? Holding those 10 times wouldn't be too hard on your thumbs. I've shot more than a brick in one target session, no problem.
My long-barrel slabside 22/45 shoots accurately even when you shoot very fast.
I wouldn't use both mags unless I were required to. I'd keep the second one loaded for the last 10. Then I could pull ahead at the end if I had to.
I prefer revolvers. But I'd put my money on my 22/45 6 7/8" slabside bull barrel target pistol for this one.
August 7, 2007, 09:28 AM
That is a good way to reload, however smacking the ejector rod with either hand will draw blood after 75 rds or so and I usually eat up the whole brick. Rather than whine about it I suppose I will have to get the chambers polished or something.
This is really a tough call. Those 10rd 617's can really toss a-lot of lead, but my wife can load up a Ruger mag in a hurry. She's been shooting one with her father since she was young.
August 7, 2007, 09:40 AM
I hate loading lots of magazines. I'd rather look at the pictures. :) The revolver would be faster for me especially if you start with empty guns.