Any thing changed in the USN Surface Fleet Small Arms ?


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BlindJustice
August 3, 2007, 12:30 AM
I served in the USN '72-'78

Destroyers Pacific Fleet
Small Arms Locker Included:
&
24 - 1911A1 .45 ACP Pistols
( Remington Rand and Ithaca WWII manufacutre )
12 - Remington 870 18 inch Bbl. Riot shotgun
* w/Parkerized finish - we had full length brass
* 00 buckshot roundsfor the seaborne environment.
12 - M14 with the selector taken off and set to semi-auto only
* and a synthetic stock for the seaborne environment
4 - M60 LMG in .308 is there any other cal. for the Mama 60?

Did this change for any other of yah sailors in the '80s '90s or into the present century ? I've always thought the replacement of the 1911 for the USN would be a low priority for the military budget.

I've heard the Marines sill use the 1911 in Iraq and afghanistan....

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Navy joe
August 3, 2007, 12:38 AM
It is now Beretta M9(92FS), Mossberg 500/590, and M-16A3(no 3 rd, full auto) for the small arms.

M-14s are retained for line launching.

M-60s are still around but being replaced by M-240s.

Depending on the ship you may see some M-249 SAWs.

Ma Deuce is still around for crew served, post 9/11 there are a lot more of them, the twin .50 mount has become very popular on most every class of ship.

The Marines using 1911s actually went back to them from the M9 which is still standard issue. In the real Navy(aviation) pilots and aircrew are issued the M11 which is a SIG.

kermit315
August 3, 2007, 01:19 AM
^^ what he said

1911 guy
August 3, 2007, 08:55 AM
I was in during the first Gulf War and we still had 1911's in the lockers. Unlucky watchstanders got issued a few .38 revolvers, too. Saw both Moss. and Rem. shotguns, most of us used M-16's but designated sharpshooters used M-14's when we did the ditch (Suez Canal) or similar close to shore operations. We didn't have any M-240 yet, they were coming in as I was going out. The M-9 was used for qualifying only, since it was the "official" handgun, but I never drew one for use. Only ones I ever saw in use were carried by marines.

xsquidgator
August 3, 2007, 11:12 AM
Submarines were similar back in the late 80s early 90s. A dozen or so 1911 .45s, a dozen or so 12 gauge shotguns (a couple of them were of the folding stock riot gun config and the watchstanders really tried to get one of those when the shotguns were handed out), a couple M14s, and a couple of flare pistols. The last is definitely what I call "repel boarders"!

I've seen photos from guys currently in the silent service and it looks like post-9/11 they've loaded the subs up for bear, small arms wise. Recent sub pictures I've seen include M16s and SAWs too.

armoredman
August 3, 2007, 11:23 AM
We still had 4 Ruger Service Six 4 inch in the armory on my ship in 88. I had to private purchase ammo to shoot one, wow, was it way off. The rest was 1911s, M14s, M60s, and one AK. No joke, mine, stored legally in the armory while we were underway on WestPac. No, it did NOT come out for exercises!

Dirty Bob
August 3, 2007, 11:37 AM
On an FFG in the mid-80s, we had M-14s, 1911A1s, Mossberg 500s, M-60s, and M-79s (!). We fired all but the 40mm in fantail practice sessions, but I never had the chance to try out the grenade launchers. :(

We also took four M-2 .50 BMGs along on WestPac, with mounts for them on the four corners of the superstructure.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

PRazz
August 3, 2007, 02:13 PM
I was on a DDG from 98+ I'm was an engineer so I didn't get to personally raid the lockers, but had friends who were GM's and there were also times we all got to qualify on different weapons.

I remember alot of M14's, but no M16's. The M14's didn't come out much and it was a shame. I never got to fire one while onboard :(

M79 Grenade Launcher's, these we got to shoot. I remember watching the dolphins chasing after the plumes of water from firing grenades off the fantail, I wonder how many of those dolphins caught a grenade?:eek:

Shotguns, Mossberg 500's but I never really paid much attention to them, I've got my own.

50 cals, I believe we had 6 mounts. I never got to shoot one, just watched. These were out of the lockers and mounted quite often. I definately was familiar with them :)

I never saw a 1911 on board and that was a shame too. We had a bunch of Berretta's though and I guess they were alright but I really didn't like them.(We were out to sea and doing my first pistol qualification on board. I really didn't like the Berretta but had never fired one before. Anyway we went through the whole qualification, shooting from 3 or 4 different stances, boat just rocking away pretty good. I don't know if that was a factor but i shot something like a 248/250. I can't remember exactly how they scored everything but when they added it all up, it was near perfect. Only one shot out of the dark centers from ~25-30 feet. I got to give our Sherriff(MAA) a good ribbing because he HAD the highest score of 240/250. Never underestimate an Engineer who's a shooter :)

BlindJustice
August 3, 2007, 02:46 PM
I, at one time or another, fired everything out of the smal arms locker,
including the M60 - I was the only non Gunners Mate to be allowed to fire
the M60. I always made it a point to BS with the Chief Gunners Mate, on both Destroyers I served on about weapons and cartrdiges - THey knew I knew weapons and I was OK. CHief Scotty told me before I fired the M60
with a 100 rd. belt that a good B.A.R. gunner in WWII could fire them single shot with a flick of the trigger. My first pull of the trigger was a 3 round
burst but by the 3rd try I had it down to single shots then I did 5-10 round
bursts at ( it was a different time back then ) big plastic bags of garbage we
had saved for the fan fire I caught one before it hit the water and
we steamed away from it verra cool...

We went to Coronado Island in San Diego with a bunch of ammo to reqcquaint watchstanders with the .45 1911 since we were a new crew and waiting to go off to Pascagoula and crew a new Spruance class DD. Nobody had shot a 1911 in a year so when the range master asked if anybody wanted to qualify... I thought no, not with your loose range guns.
but some dork said sure... then it was a cascade and the testosterone
bouquet of aroma rose in the air and we all decided to qualify. Well,
at the end of the qual. session we retrieved our targets wrote our names on
them and I counted mine up which was kinda difficulult becausse I had a
couple of cloverleafs/quadleafs near the x-ring but I thought I had a 173
or so just below minimum of 180 for Sharpshooter. The Rangemaster
took all the targets and he and his assistant or two scored all the targets
We waited around and the RM came out and said only one guy qualified
he reads off my name and a lot of comments aobut I must have had the
only dec ent 1911.

Later on, on board ship several guys, when we were along asked how did
I shoot the 19111 - T was an avid reader of G & A and Jeff Cooper
and told em how to do the modified Weaver stance and squeeze the trigger.
and they listened intently.

Back in the day...

BrokenArrow
August 3, 2007, 06:29 PM
The USMC has bought some new 1911s for some "special" folks, but they have bought even more new M9A1s, M9s w a frame rail.

MikeRussell
August 3, 2007, 06:56 PM
When I was in ('91-97) and part of the VBSS team (Visit, Board, Search, and Seizure) for '93-97, we had the following issued...

Mossberg 590 (I carried this when I actually boarded)
M14 equipped with 4x scope (when I stayed on the small boat to provide support)
1911A1s
M16 Carbines

While we were in transit or aboard the foreign ship, other crew members on our cruiser would man the 20mm and .50s in case all hell broke loose.

BlindJustice
August 3, 2007, 07:08 PM
SOmebody reminded me of this....

We got from being off the coast of Vietnam
aka The Gun LIne and the AK47 that was
mounted on the wall in the ward room. About a
month after we got back to Pearl Harbor, some
USN dept. came and confiscated it.

Navy87Guy
August 3, 2007, 09:44 PM
There's actually a mod out to use the M16 for line throwing...but no one in their right mind wants to give up the M14 for that purpose.

The Visit, Board, Search and Seizure (VBSS) teams also get some MK 18's. We had six of them - 2 per team. They are ideal for boarding and sweeping a ship -- much easier to wield than the shotgun or M16.

Speaking of shotguns, they can be either the Remington 870 or the Mossberg 500 -- just depends on which you got issued. (And they are not 18" barrels, either! I almost bought some on line to make them easier to carry!)

My ship also had some GAU-19 mini-machine guns. They were left over from a prototype system for ship self defense. Eventually, we're backfitting all of our surface ships with them. They will be remote controlled and you'll be able to fire off of a video camera or infrared camera. Pretty cool.

We also had two MK 38 chain guns installed and two MK 40 grenade launchers. The MK 38's are belt fed 25mm -- pretty cool. The MK 40 launcher could fire up to 100 grenades over 500 yds. They were fun!


Jim

Moonclip
August 15, 2007, 02:10 AM
Mid 1990's. sub tenders. 1911's were replaced with Beretta M9's around 1997. M60's, Mossberg 500's and rem 870's, M14 mostly for line launching. we supposedly had 38 revolvers and M16's in the armory but I never saw them deployed. ship also had the Ma deuce and the grenade launchers.

sub watch standers generally did have the folding stock 870's, and they sure got rusty!

Souris
August 15, 2007, 08:17 AM
Early 90's FFG 1st American Gulf War
1911's
M-14's
870's and M500's
Hand grenades
M79's
M-60's
Browning M-2's

realtor
August 15, 2007, 08:53 AM
1966-1976 on FRAM II tin cans. In addition to those items mentioned, spent a little trigger time with a BAR and a couple of Thompson sub guns. Great tools for splintering small boats in a far off SEA.

amprecon
August 15, 2007, 10:20 AM
Man, you guys got to hold guns!? All we had while standing the A-6E Intruder ramp watch at Oceana was a white duty belt with a black painted night stick with most of the paint flecked off and a hand-held radio.
I got to boot camp in San Diego in 1987 and wasn't offered an opportunity to qualify with a rifle until I was stationed at Pt. Mugu in 1994, then we qualified with the M-14.

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