Combat Sniper Challenge....OLN.


July 2, 2003, 12:04 AM
Tuned in late after a nap and found the "Combat Sniper Challenge". Teams from the US, Canada and England competing for top honors.

The best part is that it did a lot to shed the myth of snipers as uberdeadly. These guys were missing left and right. Ain't saying that they aren't pretty good shots, but when the pressure was on, they were missing just like me. :D

Not a lot of info was given on the equipment used except for a blurb about the Army M700 action rifles. Saw a few Knight's AR's and some british stuff, but they stuck to shooting and scoring and not the background.

Anyhow, OLN did good to portray the guys as professionals, often citing 'security reasons' for not naming the shooters/teams, and closed out with a note of thanks for a "group of volunteer soldiers who, if called upon, would gladly put their life on the line for their country."

I came away with a very positive feeling and hope to see something like this again. It would be especially nice if they did something on the IDPA Nats, Camp Perry, etceteras.

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July 2, 2003, 12:23 AM
What was the course of fire ?

July 2, 2003, 12:30 AM
Saw that the other day. I was impressed with the different challenges. I liked that it was more than just shooting a target at so many yards out, but instead had many factors included with different objectives.

July 2, 2003, 12:38 AM
I just watched for a while, but it included 100yd targets for the spotter, 300yd for sniper, moving targets, night course, pistol, stress fire situations, blah, blah blah. Looked pretty challenging.:)

edited to challenge was sideways prone, shooting with rifle lying on its side.

July 2, 2003, 01:18 AM
The Brits got the shaft on that competition. Switched up the ammo on them.

July 2, 2003, 02:35 AM
I tuned in, and was confused when they kept missing 100yd shots. Then they showed another caption, and I realized they were 1000yd shots. :eek: oops. I thought it was funny that they all had fancy ARs, but they were all shooting (seemingly) bone stock M92s. I realize that they are long range guys, but still...

July 2, 2003, 03:00 AM
Yeah, the poor Brit guys got screwed. I've seen them shoot before, they're better than that! Not to mention, that .338 Lapua has a marked advantage out at 1,000 yards.

I didn't think about their use of the M92's, but really the sniper's handgun is a backup weapon, close-quarters only so I'm relatively sure they don't make them into race guns for duty. Having an accurized .223 on hand, however, does make some tactical sense.

I was really impressed with the Natl. guard guys. They were very good shooters, in all aspects. You hear the Marine guys really blow their own horn about being the best snipers in the world, and they are good snipers, but it looks like the weekend warriors have the goods too.

I'd have liked to have seen a true international competition. The IDF have some good sniper teams, as do the Swiss. Been kinda cool to see how we stacked up against the world in that kind of thing.

Mark Tyson
July 2, 2003, 07:16 AM
National Guard units often do well, because you usually have a gun enthusiast who shoots on his/her own time and is dedicated. These people are part of the "gun culture" and "sniper sub-culture" that those VPC fascists are always crying about.

The Canadians did well too, presumably because they have a long tradition of hunting and fieldcraft up north.

July 2, 2003, 09:41 AM
Usually National Guard types do extreamly well in state military competitions as well. Because they are usually gun nuts on thier own time as well as the government clock.

July 2, 2003, 10:00 AM
Brits couldn't bring thier own ammo because of some importation law.

One scenario I liked was when all the spotters looked thru one scope at a target 800 meters out. Then all spotters had to get to thier shooting positions and talk the shooter on to the target within 2 minutes. After 2 minutes the shooters had to fire on command, miss the first shot you had 10 seconds for a follow up shot. Most were shooting low hitting the dirt in front of the target, they explained that most teams don't practice regularly at extreme distances.

July 2, 2003, 11:09 AM
This sounds like the competition written up in the new issue of Soldier of Fortune. It sounded tough- shooting was only part of it.

July 2, 2003, 11:23 AM
Too bad those shows are only on cable.

July 2, 2003, 12:10 PM
One thing maybe someone here can clear up. It was mentioned that due to " customs regulations" the Brits weren't able to bring their own ammo. :confused: They could bring their select- fire SA80's, precision rifles, etc, but not any ammo ?:what:

July 2, 2003, 01:42 PM
It was incredible that the Brits couldn't bring their ammo. They tried hard but I'd have been discouraged after the first round if I were them.

The whole competition was tough.

So much for talking trash about 800 yard kills. They were shooting at fixed targets with, I believe, more than 10 seconds allowed per shot, plus a spotter. And they missed more than they hit.

I loved the behind-cover shooting where, for one round, they had to shoot on the off-side underneath the cover board.

The night forest range was a weird round. Seemed like the spotters had a hard time seeing where the dummies were.

July 2, 2003, 02:29 PM
I saw it and was rather surprised the USMC guys showed so "poorly." Granted the competition was incredible but still...

July 2, 2003, 02:47 PM
Ok..I understand that the Brits couldn't bring their own ammo, but it would seem to me that during the re zero during the challenge they could make up for any problems encountered. Surely the our NATO spec ammo couldn't cause that many problems or be that inaccurate in their rifles.

Anyone know if they were complaining about reliability problems or accuracy problems? As I understand it they have a 1:7 twist on their rifles. This should still have performed reasonably well with our match grade or even service grade ammo.

Good Shooting

July 2, 2003, 06:27 PM
As you can tell by the name, I compete in Sniper competitions.

And you are correct, we do miss. One competition I attend each year has the number one shooter hitting right around 50% of the targets. The competition is very tough, and demanding. Rain, mud, snow, wind, whatever the weather, the comp goes on. Keep in mind that for the comps I shoot at, we are shooting at a 12inch X 18 inch pop up target all the way out to 1000 yards. Not calculating for a 20 degree temperature change from when the rifle was zeroed will result in a miss. This is on top of adjusting for the normal distance. Shooting long range requires you to compensate for temp, barometric pressure, humidity, altitude, up/down angle, and wind (the biggest one is wind) A lot of times you are not allowed to use a laser range finder so you have to calculate the distance using a mil dot scope. At 600 yards, miscalculating the mildot by 1/10 of a mil will result in a miss (experience talking here) That one tenth of a mil calculated the range about 100 yards short, so instead of hitting the target I hit the base plate of the target, and it didnt drop. Other fun targets are shooting at golf balls as they sway in the breeze at 200 yards, and timed fire. Pulling the trigger is the last phase in a series of calculations. Its not like the games where you put the crosshairs on the target and it drops every time.

Unfortunately, I was not able to see the show, but I hope to see it when I get home.

Steve in PA
July 2, 2003, 07:33 PM
I saw most of the show the first time it was ran........and it was an excellent show. I wish the Marines would have done better......since I'm partial to them (prior service Marine). they say in football......on any given Sunday........any team (even a bad one) can beat a better team.

July 3, 2003, 01:13 PM
"So much for talking trash about 800 yard kills. They were shooting at fixed targets with, I believe, more than 10 seconds allowed per shot, plus a spotter. And they missed more than they hit."

This is the reason that I always get a chuckle out of the on-line crowd that are always talking about how the military needs a full bore battle rifle because the M16 starts to peter out past 300-400 yards. The idea that 99.9% of the people couldn't make a shot much past that range on demand, at an undetermined distance, under combat conditions doesn't deter them in the least. In this match, we have the cream of the crop; guys that do this every day for a living that are using top of the line, state of the art equipment; and they still miss shots, possibly a majority of shots. But, you can't convice them that bringing back the Garand isn't really a great idea.

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