If you have a CCW in your state


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rich0372
August 4, 2007, 09:41 PM
This topic came up on another thread and didn't know what the anwer was. I work at Costco they have a sign out front saying firearms are not allowed. Now just saying you go shopping with your wife and you are carrying which is your right you have your CCW and all everything legal. Can you legally bring the handgun in the store? I'm sure people do all the time but, is it legal? I can't see how they can tell you you can't if you have your CCW.

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MaterDei
August 4, 2007, 09:43 PM
Depends on the state. I don't know CT law. In Texas the only valid sign prohibiting CHL holders from entering an establishment is very explicitly spelled out in the law. We also have some always off limits places in which the signage is not needed; schools, post offices, etc.

Bottom line is that if you choose to get a CCW then you will need to learn your state's laws.

HTH

Valkman
August 4, 2007, 09:46 PM
In NV I walk right by them as they don't legally keep out CCW holders. They also don't keep out criminals so they're pretty useless! :)

Standing Wolf
August 4, 2007, 09:48 PM
I don't do business with anti-Second Amendment bigots.

Dusey
August 4, 2007, 10:14 PM
I live in Ohio. I go out of my way to talk to the manager of any store the posts a no CCW sign. If the sign doesn't come down, I shop elsewhere. If a sign is posted, it is illegal to carry in that store. I just choose not to support stores that dissarm law abiding citizens.

Smokewagon45
August 4, 2007, 10:28 PM
In Texas, if it's not compliant with the states regulations, it doesn't mean squirt.

geojap
August 4, 2007, 10:28 PM
Bottom line is that if you choose to get a CCW then you will need to learn your state's laws.

QFT. Learn the laws.

Crunker1337
August 4, 2007, 10:33 PM
I'd prefer to take my business to some place besides anti civil rights businesses.

Aguila Blanca
August 4, 2007, 10:58 PM
Costco is not on the list of places CT law makes off-limits, and CT law doesn't make it illegal to ignore a sign. Therefore, you can ignore the sign. However, if you are spotted and asked to leave, refusal to do so would then put you in line to be arrested for trespass.

Firethorn
August 4, 2007, 11:00 PM
I've found that a simple complaint in my area tends to get them to take them down. Usually the signs were sent to them from corporate and they simply posted them.

I consider myself as having two successes - one for the local mall(their signs were reworked and the weapon prohibitions dropped about two months after my complaint), and one for the local alltel store that's in the mall.

WeedWhacker
August 4, 2007, 11:01 PM
To each their own: in my state, such businesses have no legal means to prevent a peaceable person from carrying a concealed weapon into their property. If the weapon is discovered, however, the owners or their representatives can demand you leave - if you don't, they can rightfully have police arrest you for trespassing.

I don't recommend this to everyone, but I ask you this: if we are truly a free people in a free country, we should provide for our own well-being. If we choose to render ourselves helpless, it should be with the full realization of the possibilities and consequences of such a choice, under no false assumption that someone else will take responsibility for our safety.

If we are prohibited from taking responsibility for our own safety, tell me that isn't a sign we should redouble our efforts to do so regardless!

RoadkingLarry
August 4, 2007, 11:07 PM
As much as I disagree with a business posting no guns or whatever whether they are in compliance with a specific state law or not, bottom line if it is a private business it is private property and their choice. I don't allow smoking in my house (wifes got heart problems) family and friends have a choice, honor my requirements or don't come in my house. As far as private business are concerned if they choose to disallow state sanctioned/permitted CCW I'll honor their request and take my money else where (and make sure they know it)

Archer1945
August 5, 2007, 12:47 AM
What most of the people complaining forget is these are PRIVATE business and BY LAW can make rules about what they do and do not allow on their premises. In most states all they will do is ask you to leave and if you don't you WILL be charged with trespassing, which might or might not affect your CCW. If you are carrying correctly they will never know you are carrying. Btw, in Missouri you are supposed to ask before CCW into a private home because the homeowner might not want a gun in their house. Once again it is up to you as a CCW to determine your own actions.

Instead of the private businesses, who are within their rights to place restrictions on how their customers act, it seems to me people should be more concerned about the PUBLIC buildings that restrict CCW, those built with taxpayer money and for taxpayer use.

CNYCacher
August 5, 2007, 12:53 AM
very simple.

Some states actually do put laws on the books that make it a crime to disregard a no weapons sign.

Some states do not.

In a state where ignoring a no weapons sign is not explicitly called out as a crime on the books, you still may be charged with trespassing if the owners discover you are carrying, but possibly only if they ask you to leave and you do not.

In at least one state that I know of, that one being Texas, it is illegal to ignore the sign, but if the sign does not meet certain regulations as to wording, size of type, etc, then the sign does not count.


Edit to add: In NYS, there are no laws like this, and the only place you can't go is schools and courthouses. CCW is very much off the public radar, so you never see businesses posted either.

wuchak
August 5, 2007, 01:29 AM
KS has a very specific sign that must be posted. All others can be ignored. Costco here in KC is not posted.

Nomad101bc
August 5, 2007, 02:43 AM
They absolutelly cannot. You dont have to obey that sign my mother has a CCL and CT says you can concealed carry wherever except government buildings. However open carry in CT is illegal almost everywhere except private property. All they have the right to do is nicely tell you you can open carry in here or only conceal carry.

Yes I am all too familair with that stupid KS sign. I go to school at University of Kansas where that stupid sign is posted loud and proud. I cant help but wonder but what if i have a large stick or a 2x4 cant these be considered weapons? Most of us ignored the weapon part we all carried knives because hell its the midwest and its the only way to open the stupid electronics packages. The kids from Texas would often have a leatherman pocket knife in plain view of everyone.

CajunBass
August 5, 2007, 04:45 AM
How can you expect anyone to respect your right to own, and carry a gun, if you can't/won't respect their right to post their property as they see fit? It all comes down to property rights. You have the right to carry your property. They have the right to say "Not here you don't." You then have the right to go someplace else and not do business with them. You have the right to talk to them and ask them to change their policy, but they do have the right to say, "Nope. Sorry."

This is not the same as the government saying you can't carry. This is a private business/property owner saying you can't carry on my property. It is no different than putting up a "No Hunting/Fishing/Trapping/Tresspassing sign.

Regolith
August 5, 2007, 04:58 AM
I agree with Cajun on this. The owner's property rights trump your CCW rights. Sucks, but that's how it is. Now, if you don't like that a certain store is posted, your perfectly within your rights to not shop there and petition the owner to change their policies, but you aren't in your rights to ignore the owner's wishes.

What it comes down to is, would you carry in someone's home if they asked you not to? If not, then why treat businesses any differently? Kind of sends the wrong message.

Guitargod1985
August 5, 2007, 05:02 AM
I happen to work for an employer who won't even allow weapons in their employees' cars - and THAT is what I most certainly DO NOT agree with. Just because they have a no weapons policy does not mean that I cannot keep it in my car to allow me to defend myself to and from work. Since I can be fired for even having a firearm in my own vehicle, I say screw it and I carry concealed because either one is a fireable offense. So by not "allowing" me to leave my firearm in the car, they have essentially encouraged me to carry it inside the building. Since Florida law does not make their policy legally binding, the worst I face is "you're fired, don't come back."

Regolith
August 5, 2007, 05:07 AM
Carrying in your car IS different, as your car is your property, and hence your property rights (at least, in theory) should hold sway there.

However, saying that rule FORCES you to violate company policy even further by carrying on you while in the office is simply weak. If you don't like their policy, don't work there. Or petition to get it changed and in the mean time leave it in the car. Not like they can pop the locks and search the glove compartment.

Guitargod1985
August 5, 2007, 05:25 AM
Not like they can pop the locks and search the glove compartment.

No, they can't, but I am required to comply with any request to search my vehicle. The company policy doesn't say anything about them searching my person.

As far as what I said being "weak," I don't give a rat's rear end what you think. My safety is my responsibility and since the security guards won't take a bullet for me and do not have weapons, I carry. It's concealed anyway, so nobody knows. Should an occasion necessitate its use, I would rather be alive and fired/trespassed than dead.

Regolith
August 5, 2007, 05:31 AM
I'm sorry, but I don't think this is the fight we need to fight. Infringing one right in order to try and satisfy our desire for another right is the wrong way to go.

Its equivalent to saying we should take away anti-gunners first amendment rights because it will make it easier for us to exercise our second amendment rights. Sorry, but its simply a non-start for me. As the old saying goes, your right to throw your fist ends at my face. You don't get to infringe on someone else's right to exercise your right. If you don't like working in a place that requires you to choose between your safety and your job, then find some place else to work, or petition to have policies changed.

Nomad101bc
August 5, 2007, 07:46 AM
No its been proven unless you sign an actual contract or its a government structure they are not within thier rights ro infringe on your constitutional rights. For instance private property or not you can not post "no whites allowed in my store" because its a blatant violation of the 14th. This has been upheld by supreme court in several cases. So long as your not hurting anyone your also allowed to mutter strange chants to yourself unless the store decides your a trespasser. In regards to it being private property i would put money on it actaully being a lease because of how comercial zoning works. Being that they are renting they are of even less authority thier only real right is to ask you nicely not to carry but you dont have to comply. Look at the corporate world in no way can they violate your constitutional rights without first bringing you under contract. I can gurantee you if Costco asked all customers to sign a contract stating "i revoke all my constitutional rights" very few people would shop there.

Black Adder LXX
August 5, 2007, 09:36 AM
This isn't a big problem down here in rainy S FLA, but I would go someplace else. The OPs question regarding legality of ignoring the sign depends on the State. In my state, there's no legal obligation to comply at a store like that, with the caveat listed above about trespassing and being asked to leave. Whether it's MORALLY right is another question. I'd just go someplace else.

rich0372
August 5, 2007, 01:44 PM
and the sign is gone. They must have taken it down at one point and never put it back up.

Cosmoline
August 5, 2007, 01:47 PM
A secure government facility is one thing, but a shopping center? They can go to the hot place. Some state CCW laws back this a big deal, others give businesses no particular right to exclude CCW holders.

3rdpig
August 5, 2007, 03:52 PM
In Arizona you can legally ignore the signs (unless it's an establishment that serves alcohol, where by law you aren't allowed to carry). However, if they see your gun and ask you to leave you must comply or you are trespassing and breaking the law.

My problem with signs like this are simple, there are so many good looking women in this state my eyes are too busy checking out the honey in front of me to notice any signs. But should they see my gun I would most certainly comply with any requests to leave their store, but of course I keep my weapons well concealed.

HimNAz
August 5, 2007, 05:39 PM
I believe in Arizona it is illegal to carry where the location is posted. There are no specific signage requirements. See handgunlaw.us for Arizona.

Costco in Prescott is posted - no firearms allowed on premises.

BTW, I am a state certified Arizona CCW instructor (no longer instructing). The Arizona DPS officer who was in charge of the CCW program stated a few years ago that the term 'premises' included the parking lot - this is the technical legal meaning of 'premises' in Arizona he said. I've never heard of any enforcement.

Indian casino parking lots are another matter. Folks have been busted when observed on security cameras handling firearms in those parking lots - even just locking the firearms in the trunk.

Scanr
August 5, 2007, 06:19 PM
In Nevada as long as they don't post the NRS statute, I will walk right on by.

Autolycus
August 5, 2007, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Nomad101bc:
No its been proven unless you sign an actual contract or its a government structure they are not within thier rights ro infringe on your constitutional rights. For instance private property or not you can not post "no whites allowed in my store" because its a blatant violation of the 14th. This has been upheld by supreme court in several cases. So long as your not hurting anyone your also allowed to mutter strange chants to yourself unless the store decides your a trespasser. In regards to it being private property i would put money on it actaully being a lease because of how comercial zoning works. Being that they are renting they are of even less authority thier only real right is to ask you nicely not to carry but you dont have to comply. Look at the corporate world in no way can they violate your constitutional rights without first bringing you under contract. I can gurantee you if Costco asked all customers to sign a contract stating "i revoke all my constitutional rights" very few people would shop there.

Can you elaborate on which supreme court cases these are?

So does that mean I can come into your home and start protesting and start muttering chants? The arguments about race are different in that they are directly targeting a class of persons. In this case the sign is targeting an item.

I am sorry but property rights should trump other rights.

The Lone Haranguer
August 5, 2007, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by WeedWhacker:
To each their own: in my state, such businesses have no legal means to prevent a peaceable person from carrying a concealed weapon into their property. If the weapon is discovered, however, the owners or their representatives can demand you leave - if you don't, they can rightfully have police arrest you for trespassing.

This is also what they do in Arizona.

I can't speak to Costco specifically (if they sold ammo I might shop there;), otherwise I have no reason to), but not many business establishments are "posted" here, even banks. Those that do, absolutely have the right to do so ... just as I have the right to not patronize them.

Werewolf
August 5, 2007, 08:45 PM
How can you expect anyone to respect your right to own, and carry a gun, if you can't/won't respect their right to post their property as they see fit? It all comes down to property rights.So let me get this right...

Property rights - a construct of man - supersede man's natural right to self defense?

Interesting. :confused:

Condition Plaid
August 5, 2007, 09:16 PM
In California you can be asked to leave. If you refuse you can be arrested for trespassing.

Other than the very few places that are off-limits by law, what signs? I don't see any signs.

Hoppy590
August 5, 2007, 09:43 PM
im not 100% but im pretty sure MA is actualy cool about it. and the only places where you cant CCW is schools, government buildings and bars. :D

MA may be good for something. hey even they dont want us mere mortals infrindging on the commonwealths power!

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