[sublimaze41]

The last time I bought a bunch of reloading components I did so to save money as many of us do. I also wanted to have custom loads for my favorite gun. Heck, I enjoyed it so much I even reloaded 9mm and .223. It was simple, plan an afternoon for a caliber or two and shoot for the rest of the year. Fast forward a year and now I have a new mouth to feed. I just bought a Colt M4 to go with my other Colt AR.
It appears as though I let all my reloading components get low. I was so focused on my African Plains game hunt I totally blocked out the other gun stuff. Now I want 3-4 thousand .223 to have as a shooting supply and getting the bullets, brass and primers has been a royal pain in the arse. Just getting FMJ 55 grainers has been tough. Luckily I nailed 10,000 but they were $125 per 2,000............Jeeeeze. Looking at the different threads I can see this is not a new trend. Is anybody else loading .223? Getting any factory loaded stuff is tough without paying and arm and a leg. I am loading 1,000 rounds for about $182.

once fired brass $50 per 1,000
small win primer $21 per 1,000
55Gr FMJ $63 per 1,000
3.15 # of H322 $15 per pound. $48


this gives me about 3100 FPS
with a 55gr FMJ @ 22 Gr per
round

The cost of the brass obviously goes down with subsequent reloads.

So, Is anybody else out there reloading the .223 in large numbers? Any suggestions for cutting the cost further. Since all Milsurp value priced .223 is all but gone, perhaps it isn't such a bad idea after all.

[1911 Shooter]

I haven't started yet, and I wish I had stocked up a while back. I purchased a case od win Q3131a several years ago at the price you spoke of to reload.

[fourrobert13]

I mass produce 223. Luckly I have a few friends that reload also. Whenever we all start getting low on supplies, we all do a group buy from Powder Valley, Midway, or Widners depending on who has the best prices. You can go cheaper on your bullets and buy pulled ones, and if you can get your hands on surplus powder(WC844 or WC846), things can get even cheaper. I am lucky, I get all the brass I want each month after SWAT training so not paying for brass is a way I stay cheap. Powder Valley will combine up to 48 lbs of powder and primers under one hazmat fee. Just look around, you'll find a deal.;)

[sublimaze41]

I got bulk powder and primers from Powder Valley. They are fantastic. Great service. If I had to buy H322 per pound where I live it would cost me $22-24.
I guess I am just feeling stupid for getting caught behind the eightball.

[NuJudge]

Buy a Giraud trimmer, or at least a Gracey. The former is really expensive, the latter is only expensive, but both will save you a ton of time and grief. With a Giraud, I did 4000 cases in one evening (hell on fingertips, so wear gloves). Before the Giraud, doing just 2000 took a week of evenings.

Stay away from Federal brass. It has had a problem with primer pockets getting loose after one or two loadings. They may have changed their ways now that they run Lake City, but I have doubts.

Make sure that after sizing your brass chambers freely in all your .223 chambers. Check it periodically during each run of sizing cases. Don't just rely on a headspace gauge.

[dmftoy1]

I think NuJudge gave you some good advice . . .I don't know that I do mass reloading but I tend to do about 600 rounds at a time and by the time I finish trimming all that brass on my lyman universal trimmer I'm so sick of trimming that it almost makes me not want to shoot the ammo . ..almost. :)

I'm lucky in that I stocked up on 5.56 when it was $1.86 per box. (M193 - LC). If I ever get to the point where I don't feel like reloading I can always tap into that supply but so far I'm only shooting maybe 500-700 rounds per year of .223.

Have a good one,
Dave

[Adventurer_96]

$1.86 per box. (M193 - LC).

I wish I'd had a chance to stock up on ammo at that price, I always seem to be behind the times on ammo because I'm focusing on the guns.

It looks like, short of getting surplus powder as indicated, you've cut down the price quite a bit.

But, how are you loading them? Single stage? Progressive? That might be one area to look at, like getting a 4- or 5-stage progressive press. That way, your time would be cut quite a bit. Of course, if you're doing that already, then you're maximizing your time I'd say.

BTW, I'd love to get bullets at that price - my last bag of milsurp 55gr Israeli bullets was over $100.

[KaiserBen]

Adventurer_96, Grafs has Hornady 55gr FMJBT bullets for ~$60/k, including shipping, if you have an FFL, class 01 or 03.

[fourrobert13]

I am such a CRB, that I do all of my 223 reloading on my classic cast single stage. I use the Lee trimmer, Dillon case guage, and a Lyman power chamfer tool to do all of my work. It's time consuming, but I enjoy the hobby, and it gives me something to do on a rainy day. I just did a couple thousand rounds over the past couple of weeks, and just finished loading them all this past Friday

[trickyasafox]

i do 223 in mass as well.

i'm going to cry when my stocks are depleted.

i picked up primers last for 12.50 per k
bullets for 35 per k after shipping
brass is free
powder is 846T pulldown i got for 80 per keg
so
12.50 primers
35.00 bullets
00.00 brass
32.23 powder
79.73 per k.

[sublimaze41]

I got the 55 grainers from Powder Valley, They are under the Hornady section. After I initially bought several thousand of these I ALMOST regreted it.... you know the justification to the wife and such. Now I can see that I did the right thing, these components are going through the roof!
I am a lucky man, This week is my birthday and I went CRAzY with my Midway Reloading birthday certificate. Poor UPS guy. Hope he has Motrin.
BTW, I will be using a Dillon 550b once the overhaul gets finished. I have been reloading with the Dillon as a single stage and dispensing the powder via an electronic Lymann. Great system until you need 500 or so reloads.

Trickyasafox........ You will need Valium to get over the price increase. I missed the boat on some but not all. Wish I would have got more 8mm, .223 and 7.62x39. BTW, just bought 1,000 rounds of Wolf Classic for $185. That nearly kills me to type that.

[trickyasafox]

yea the worst part is alls i bought was 55gr, when i could have gotten 62's for almost the same price. the 55s are a bit too light for 300 yard line stuff, and now trying to find pulled 109s for anything sub-vomit level is near impossible


edit: just priced out primers again, up to 15.59 per k

still not terrible, but i'm not shooting remington BR anymore thats for sure. . . .

[Adventurer_96]

One good tip (thanks by the way KaiserBen) deserves another:

http://www.rvow.com/surplus%20bullets.htm

$40/k for SS109 pulldowns.

[Canuck-IL]

Brassman has 55gr pull downs for $47.50 / 1000, shipped.

http://www.brassmanbrass.com/monthlyspecials.html
/Bryan

[45ACPUSER]

One good tip (thanks by the way KaiserBen) deserves another:

http://www.rvow.com/surplus%20bullets.htm

$40/k for SS109 pulldowns.
__________________

That is nice fantasy to spread, but I do not think that web site has been updated in a couple yrs, the owner died a while back.....

[mechdriver]

FYI
I called RVOW a couple of weeks ago and finally got someone on the phone. Their prices have gone up. Don't remember what they were but I said thank you and hung up.
Friday I ordered the last 1000 55gn that BrassManBrass had. Hopefully he will restock on the pulldowns.

[trickyasafox]

tried calling RVO all day today. didn't get an answer. will try tomorrow but i'm not holding my breath. those prices seem a bit too good to be true. Thank you though for the link :)

[Adventurer_96]

That is nice fantasy to spread, but I do not think that web site has been updated in a couple yrs, the owner died a while back.....

Well, I wasn't trying to spread a fantasy, I'd just seen a link to his website in another thread here. Sad news.

[Adventurer_96]

Buy a Giraud trimmer, or at least a Gracey. The former is really expensive, the latter is only expensive, but both will save you a ton of time and grief. With a Giraud, I did 4000 cases in one evening (hell on fingertips, so wear gloves). Before the Giraud, doing just 2000 took a week of evenings.



Giraud's website was down, Gracey's was up. Is the Giraud still available? I didn't see any on eBay other than at Creedmore's e-store.

[NuJudge]

I went by that facility in Commercial Row several times and he was never there. I cannot get his or Creedmoor's websites to load this morning. I have no idea what's happening. The cached version of his website says that he was planning on being at Camp Perry until August 4, so maybe he's just not back yet.

Contact info:

Telephone
713-907-2695 (cell) or 281-238-0844(home)
FAX
281-232-0987
Postal address (as of 18 December 2005)
3803 Dawn Lane, Richmond, Texas 77469
Electronic mail
General Information, Sales, and Customer Support: doug at giraudtool.com

CDD

[LAH]

http://www.wideners.com/ Has 5000, 22CAL 55GR FMJBT M193 PROJECTILES for $345.00 delivered.

This is what the add says:

They are finally here! NO STEEL!These bullets are absolutely first quality, BRAND NEW, 2007 manufacture with COPPER JACKETS (NOT STEEL) and ARE NOT PULLED. They have never been loaded. Bright and shiny!!!! You won't believe the quality for the money. AND IT GETS BETTER!! WIDENER'S is prepaying the freight if you buy 5000. We ship it USPS flat rate box, so make sure you can take delivery on this box. Some people way out in the country can't take delivery, but 95% of people can receive these packages from the USPS. If you want less than 5000, order part # MB2255F and pay shipping charges.

It took us a long time to find these bullets. We have plenty, but the supply is limited and they are hard to get with most arsenals sold out. So enjoy and order plenty.

Also http://hi-techammo.com/ were selling 5000 new 62 gr bullets in a 30 ammo can. I bought a can for a delivered price of 350.00 or 7 cents each.

http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/ will have Wolf SR Primers 8-31-07 for 87.50/5000. You can get about 10 boxes of these, 50,000 primers, on one haz-mat/shipping fee. They ran a special on TAC powder a couple months back so I got a bunch.

Good buys on WC 844 are getting hard to come by but check out the following and remember, this stuff won't get any cheaper so stock up while you can.

http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.htm http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html
http://hi-techammo.com/

[sublimaze41]

Enjoy looking at all the new links and such. I still think the deal at Powder Valley is the best deal @. $111.79 for 2,000 55 Hornady FMJ w/can. that is about 0.559 per round. Tack on another $12 for delivery. What is the difference between 55GR FMJBT M193 and .224 55 GR FMJ-BT W/C?

[LAH]

Didn't see those. Looks like a great deal..........Creeker

[RustyFN]

I reload 223. The last bullets I bought were M855 pulled 62 grain for $40 per 1,000. I wish I bought more than I did. A friend of mine is looking into a deal for some 55 grain tracers that won't light for $199 for 7,800 bullets. I buy small rifle primers for $16 per 1,000 and powder around $100 for 8#. Unless I figured wrong I will be loading 223 for $90 per 1,000.
Rusty

[sublimaze41]

Creeker,
Try again. I just ordered 4,000. The item number is HOR2267B2000. For another $11 you can get soft point. Sublimaze41

[Lone_Gunman]

Ok, I have had enough of my old Lyman trimmer, and am thinking of upgrading to the Giraud.

I have a few questions that don't seem to be answered from the website and was hoping someone here would have some answers.

First, I want to size 223, 308, and maybe 30-06 at some point in the future as well. How do I do that with a Giraud? Do I just swap out a die?

Second, it looks like from the photos you must just stick the cartridge case into the die on the machine. But what determines the length the case will be cut? I guess I just don't understand exactly how it operates.

Can you adjust the length a cartridge case will be cut, and if so, how do you adjust?

[Gearhead Jim]

Dillon makes a power trimmer, don't they? Any good?

[bobhead]

First, let me say that the Giraud trimmer is great.

For each different size case you want to trim, you will need a different "Case Holder". If you look on the Giraud web site, you will see a entry in the product list for "Additional Case Holder for any of the calibers listed above". One comes with the unit (in whatever size you order).

If you look at the photo on their page, the thing with the large hex nut on the front of the gold housing is the Case Holder.

The blades that trim the mouth are inside the unit and would have to be adjusted for each different case size. That can be done but it's a bit of pain so that's why Giraud offers an "Additional Cutter Head w/ Blade". With an additional blade assembly, you just swap out the whole thing instead of having to move the blades within the assembly. I think you could use the same blade setup for both .308 and .30-06 since they are the same caliber (neck diameter).

Trim length is controlled by adjusting that large hex nut on the Case Holder. Basically, it works like setting a die in a reloading press. You have to size your brass before trimming. That gives you a consistent base to shoulder dimension on all your brass. The adjustment of the Case Holder sets the length from the shoulder (in the Case Holder) to the trim blades.
When you insert the brass in the Case Holder and push it forward to the blades, the case is trimmed to an total length determined by your base to shoulder length plus the shoulder to mouth length.

When I use my trimmer, I set the unit up vertically (there are feet on both sides of the base). I put three bins in front of the unit with brass to trim in the left and right most bins. With my right hand, I pick up brass from the right bin and press it into the Case Holder while I pick up brass from the left bin with my left hand. My right hand drops the trimmed case into the center bin as the brass in my left hand enters the case holder. My left hand drops the case in the center bin as the right starts the process over. Repeat.

I don't know what my case/minute rate is but it's fast. I never measure brass. I just trim every piece, every time. I could not possibly measure the brass and make any sort of decision as quickly and I can run it through that trimmer. I only wish the thing could be mounted on my progressive press.

HTH,
Bob

[LAH]

Creeker,
Try again. I just ordered 4,000. The item number is HOR2267B2000. For another $11 you can get soft point. Sublimaze41

Think I'll order them also. Thanks.......Creeker

[sublimaze41]

Creeker,
I just ordered 4,000 and they are on a two week back order. There is hardly any place in the country selling bulk .223 bullets. I suspect eveybody is getting geared up for the price increase next month. I understand it as being from 10-25% across the board for everything from bullets to reloading components.

[sublimaze41]

Is anybody out there having trouble locating .223 brass. First the bullets in bulk got difficult to get, now I am starting to see the trend in brass as well. Perhaps it's just me. ????

[LAH]

Creeker,
I just ordered 4,000 and they are on a two week back order. There is hardly any place in the country selling bulk .223 bullets. I suspect eveybody is getting geared up for the price increase next month. I understand it as being from 10-25% across the board for everything from bullets to reloading components.

Who did you order from?