Sig P220R vs HK USP 45


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quickcanary
August 5, 2007, 03:28 PM
Both are top notch weapons. Which would you pick, if you could pick only one? And why?

I have a birthday coming up this month -- thinking about treating myself to a quality .45. :)

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gudel
August 5, 2007, 03:41 PM
Get both! I did :D

10-Ring
August 5, 2007, 03:51 PM
HK USP 45. I sold my P220 to pay for the HK and haven't regretted a moment since :cool:

quickcanary
August 5, 2007, 03:59 PM
Man, I meant to make a poll :(

gudel, I didn't know you had the Sig! I knew you had a USP and M&P 45...

Which of the two (Sig/HK) do you prefer?

10-Ring, what do you like better about the USP?

PO2Hammer
August 5, 2007, 04:06 PM
I would go with the USP .45. I like Sigs too, I own a P226 9mm, but my USP .45 is just so freekin' fun to shoot and is my personal accuracy champ at 50 yards.

gudel
August 5, 2007, 04:30 PM
gudel, I didn't know you had the Sig! I knew you had a USP and M&P 45...
Which of the two (Sig/HK) do you prefer?


Yup I bought the ST.

Go with the HK. I think you will like the dual recoil reduction system. It's a much superior gun.

quickcanary
August 5, 2007, 04:52 PM
Man, where are all the Sig guys? I always see the 220 recommended in threads concerning the top .45 pistols. I am primarily interested in the Sig because of the trigger...a lot of people don't seem to care for the USP trigger. Sig advertises the P220 as being the most accurate .45 out of the box and having a SA trigger that "breaks like glass."

However, the USP is a fine weapon for sure and it's durability and reliability are supposedly second to none. I'm also interested in the P2000 but can get a two-tone USP 45 with night sites for less than $600. That almost sounds too good to pass up.

gudel
August 5, 2007, 05:03 PM
if you are primarily interested in the Sig, why even asked the question?

quickcanary
August 5, 2007, 05:12 PM
if you are primarily interested in the Sig, why even asked the question?

Sorry, my wording there left something to be desired. I didn't mean that I was already leaning toward the Sig, just that the primary reasons I was interested in the Sig were the trigger and claims of superior accuracy.

I'm still undecided at this point, but am pretty sure it would be hard to be disappointed either way. The intention of this thread is to help me determine which one is "better"...of course I know that's probably as subjective as anything else. There are many happy owners of both guns, I just want to see why people like each in order to assist me in making a decision for myself.

Autolycus
August 5, 2007, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by quickcanary:
I'm also interested in the P2000 but can get a two-tone USP 45 with night sites for less than $600. That almost sounds too good to pass up.

To be honest it is to good to pass up.

HM2PAC
August 5, 2007, 09:27 PM
Under $600???

Way to good to pass up. Grab it before the seller wakes up. I have seen plain-Jane USP's going for $1K in good condition.

On a tangent, I'll speak up for the Sig's even though I am a H&K type.

1. The Sig is easier to CCW.
2. The Sig has a steel frame.

There you have it, IMHO, the points of the Sig that are different/better than the USP,.......depending on what you think of steel vs. polymer, or if you care that the butt of the USP is prominent.

randyman_ar
August 5, 2007, 09:44 PM
I own two P220's, both have run flawlessly. So far the only glitch I've had is the 1st one's night-sites died after 10+ years. CDNN and $39 solved that problem. I have never shot or owned an HK USP, but have handled several in local shops. I love the look and feel, however the shops (2) both warned of less than stellar customer service from HK. I have also read several posts stating the same. So I vote Sig.

bpsig
August 5, 2007, 10:02 PM
Get both if you can.
I have 2 220's one is chrome nickel factory the other started out as a blue 220 but lost it's finish due to holster wear. So now it sports a dura coat/teflon combination, looks like a wilson greyish finish shoots great. But I also have used a glock 21 in adition to the sig. I recently picked up an hk tactical. nice but have to special order night sights and mags are 60.00 each holster fittings a pain also. Glock and sig are easier to get mags and holsters for but glocks dificult to hide . so is hk fullsize 220 a little easier. but with good ammo and practice either will get u home.

VincentWhytt
August 5, 2007, 10:08 PM
Though I've never handled the SIG, I can say I love my USP 45. It has never jammed on me, and is quite a bit more accurate than I am. (Due in part to the fact I can only get out to the range a litttle less than once a month:banghead::cuss:.) Personally, I like it's "weird" magazine release, and have never experienced a problem with accidentally tripping it.

opd743
August 6, 2007, 12:11 AM
I carry a Glock 21 everyday and love it. That being said, the best gun that I have ever owned was a Sig220. I loved the thing! I bought it from my dad the day I turned 21 and went to the Sheriff and got my permit that day. I carried it for two years and then traded it away for a Glock 19. I would give every gun I have just to get that one P220 back today. You can probably tell which one I say you should get by now! The P220 will be the next purchase I make.

Inner Monkey
August 6, 2007, 12:23 AM
I would go for the SIG. I went through this a few years ago and love the P220. However the HK has a much higher magazine capacity.

If you can swing a P220 Elite you will Love the Short Reset trigger.

You will be well served by either.

TheKnight
August 6, 2007, 12:46 AM
Tough decision....I reciently went through the same thing.

I have had the pleasure of shooting both...And loved both of them.

So here is what I based my decision.

I don't need another carry gun. So concealment is not an issue,
Both are built very well, and both are accurate.

So I flipped a coin...kidding...I picked the HK USP full size 45 ACP...I like the polymer design, I like the look a tad bit more than the Sig.
Finally I wanted something with more round capacity in the mags.

10-Ring
August 6, 2007, 01:02 AM
Quickcanary - I prefer the way the USP fits in my hands, I like how the recoil system works and how controllable the pistol is even firing defensive ammo, I like the trigger, how like how easy it is to point & stay on target, I am always amazed at the accuracy (and how good it makes me look), I like how durable the finish is, I like the durability of the pistol, I like...
I like the USP line ALOT! :D

bluto
August 6, 2007, 11:12 AM
Just picked up my 3rd P220 - so I guess you could say that I've made my choice. In fairness, the only HK I've owned was an MSG90 rifle. I've handled a few HK pistols and I'm sure they are every bit as nice as SIGS but found that the SIG 220 works perfectly for me.

I always look forward to shooting them because they are so darn accurate.

Having said that, either istol will undoubtedly serve you well. Pick the one that you shoot best.

pablo45
August 6, 2007, 06:31 PM
The Sig p220 is better in my opinion. I have had two so far and I have loved them. I unfortunately had to sell them but my next will be a Sig p220 carry.

quickcanary
August 6, 2007, 08:51 PM
Wow...apparently the only time HK guys like to chime in with the "HK - No compromise" propaganda is in threads that do not directly compare it with the Sig. ;)

I certainly appreciate the opinions I've gotten thus far.

The things that appeal to me about the Sig are the accuracy, the nice trigger, and the fact that most people say getting quality CS from them is easier.

The HK interests me because of its reputation for firing everything fed into it without so much as a hiccup, and without the need to run as wet or as clean as a Sig. I've heard the trigger on the USP isn't as nice as a Sig but I have to admit I'm curious about what makes an HK so special -- a lot of owners think any HK is in a league of its own and I'm dying to find out what all the fuss is about. As I said, I wasn't immediately blown away by the USP 40 so if I got the USP 45 I'd hope my initial impressions were more favorable.

The HK basically takes the attributes I like about my Glock and gives them to me for about twice the cost. Because of that I can't see myself paying $900-$1k for an HK but with this particular gun being less than $600 with night sites, it's very tempting.

You guys are clearly making a case for the P220, and rightly so. The only real problem I have with getting the 220 is that I'm afraid my wallet would hate me, as a 226 in 9mm or a 229 in .40 would probably have to follow soon thereafter. Of course, I'm salivating for a P2000 in .40 as well... :(

Jason_G
August 6, 2007, 11:57 PM
The things that appeal to me about the Sig are the accuracy, the nice trigger, and the fact that most people say getting quality CS from them is easier.
Get whichever you shoot better. The CS thing is bogus hear-say. CS with H&K is purportedly extremely good now. At one time it was pretty dismal, and that's where the rumors about poor service are coming from. They've improved by leaps and bounds in that department from the more recent reports. I do know that they have a CS oriented internet forum as well, where you can converse with reps from that department. Honestly though, I doubt you will need CS with either H&K or SiG- it could happen, but it's doubtful. They are both top notch guns. I went with the USP45 when I was faced with the exact same dilemma a while back. I've been exceedingly happy with the gun. That being said, I will probably pick up a P220 also, albeit later on. You really should own both IMO. Two of my three favorite .45's. Here's my H&K:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/itsthewhitmans/jason/pic1.jpg

Best,
Jason

quickcanary
August 7, 2007, 04:34 PM
Nice piece, Jason. I think the people that said I should get both are right. Question is, which one do I get first? The USP is a two-tone with stainless slide...mmmm.

Which one is supposedly better at soaking up recoil? The P220 is all steel, but the USP has the recoil buffer system. I have nothing against polymer pistols...less to lube and worry about rusting.

Classified00
August 7, 2007, 07:18 PM
My 220 is my only Sig, so far, and I'm very happy with it.

Jason_G
August 7, 2007, 07:56 PM
Nice piece, Jason. I think the people that said I should get both are right. Question is, which one do I get first? The USP is a two-tone with stainless slide...mmmm.

Which one is supposedly better at soaking up recoil? The P220 is all steel, but the USP has the recoil buffer system. I have nothing against polymer pistols...less to lube and worry about rusting.
NP. For recoil, I honestly can't tell much difference between the SiG and the H&K. The USP has the buffering system with the second captive spring, but the SiG has a little higher bore axis. In my hands they feel similar in terms of felt recoil. Then again, I'm one of those that's a little less sensitive to recoil than alot of other folks, so maybe I'm not the best one to ask. H&K claims up to 30% recoil reduction with their buffering system, which even if you can't feel, will prolong the life of the weapon, particularly if you like hot loads. It's a toss up between the two guns IMO, but like I said, I got the USP first when faced with the same question and I don't have any regrets. I still plan on getting a SiG later on to add to the collection though. Either way you're making a good choice IMO. Both are excellent guns.

Jason

Caseless
August 7, 2007, 07:56 PM
USP 45 w/match trigger makes any lousy shooter look like a master pistolero.;)
Plus you don't worry about reliability even if it's seldom cleaned.

jmr40
August 7, 2007, 11:04 PM
I'm sure H&K builds great guns but mine has been a major dissapointment. My Sig was a much better gun. I loved everything about the H&K until I started shooting it. Mine will shoot tiny little groups all over the target. The first 3-4 shots will be in one tiny group and the next 3-4 shots will be in a tiny group several inches away. My gunsmith tells me that while this is not common he has seen other H&K pistols do this.

Black Majik
August 8, 2007, 12:06 AM
I currently own a HK USPf .45. That said, both are EXCELLENT pistols and often compared to each other. The USP is my only non-1911 .45, which I am really happy with.

So, there are plenty of advantages and disadvantages to both platforms. We'll start with the USP. With the USP, it is double stack, so you'll have the additional rounds (or more if you had standard cap mags already). The gun is available in a variety of modes. You can carry it cocked and locked, or DA/SA. Heck, you can even carry it DA/SA locked if you wanted to. Only thing is, us high thumb shooters riding the safety lever risks the chance of decocking the gun halfway through a string. The trigger is horrible in DA, and heavy in SA. It'll also have a long reset. You can get a match trigger installed, but it won't be a huge improvement, unless you take it to a gunsmith, or the guys at Grayguns. P.S. The stock sights REALLY suck. Similar to the Glock sights, but with those huge white dots that look like eyeballs staring back at you. Swap em' out for Heinie Straight Eights for a beautifully crisp sight picture.

The P220 on the other hand, is a different platform. The Classic P220 comes in DA/SA, which usually has a better trigger. It's definitely lighter, with the DA trigger pull a slight tad shorter than the USP. The P220 comes with better sights (IMO) than the USP, which I definitely prefer the bar-dot sights than the 3 dots on the USP. There are also some beautiful P220s, as you can swap out grips to your hearts content, such as nills, or the Equinox grips. The only gripe (a good one too) are the grip screws. They shoot loose on a regular basis, so you'll have to keep an eye on them, or blue loctite them. Bruce and Scott @ GGI can make a really good gun quite incredible. But as a stock pistol, the trigger is going to be "good",but it'll also have a long trigger reset just like the USP. Also, if you shoot high thumb, your thumb might ride on the slidestop and prevent slidelock on the last round.

I should close stating that while the P220 is an excellent platform, I personally don't have a use for one. I got the USP because I felt it was more durable. The P220 can hold it's own also, but I wanted something different other than 1911s and durability was a major factor for me. The USP won that one.

Jason_G
August 8, 2007, 05:31 PM
The stock sights REALLY suck. Similar to the Glock sights, but with those huge white dots that look like eyeballs staring back at you. Swap em' out for Heinie Straight Eights for a beautifully crisp sight picture.... The P220 comes with better sights (IMO) than the USP, which I definitely prefer the bar-dot sights than the 3 dots on the USP.
Sounds like you just shoot better with the vertical alignment style sights. I wouldn't say that the stock sights on the USP suck. They are as good as the lollipop SiG sights to me. I would opt for night sights over either one though.
Obviously this is a subject of preference, but I just wanted to make it clear that both sets of sights are accurate.

Jason

quickcanary
August 8, 2007, 10:05 PM
Thanks for the comparison, Black Majik. The Sig is looking very good right now, but I've still got a little while to decide. I'll have to do some more reading but I think either would be a good choice!

Black Majik
August 9, 2007, 01:57 AM
Sounds like you just shoot better with the vertical alignment style sights. I wouldn't say that the stock sights on the USP suck. They are as good as the lollipop SiG sights to me. I would opt for night sights over either one though.
Obviously this is a subject of preference, but I just wanted to make it clear that both sets of sights are accurate.



Accuracy is what the shooter is capable of, I'd say the sights are moreso useable. You're right, it's all subjective. Even if we blacked out the sights on both the SIG and USP, I'd still prefer the sight picture of the SIG. I never liked the odd shaped USP sights similar to Glocks, IMO it causes a messy sight picture. The white dots make it worse.

But yeah, what I may not like may be great for others. :)

FireArmFan
August 9, 2007, 02:33 AM
I've been going through a similar problem as well. A while back I rented a USP, it was a .40 because they didn't have a .45 to rent. It shot quite nice and felt great it my hand. Just this week I rented a P220, also felt good in my hand and was very accurate. Very good pistols, both of them. The only issue I had with the Sig was the double action. And the problem didn't have anything to do with the gun but rather myself. The most common pistol I shoot is a single action 1911 so when I tried to shooting the sig in double action, the trigger pull was pretty heavy. Took me a little bit before I got accurate with it. They are both terrific guns and whichever you choose will most likely please you.

caz223
August 9, 2007, 07:04 AM
The 220ST is a great pistol, and they are capable of good accuracy, but I don't shoot them well for some reason.
The H&K USP is an awesome pistol, but the grip is too big for me, so I got the USP compact .45 tutone.
I have never been happier with a gun purchase in my life.
Funny, the grip on my CZ97b is prolly about the same size as a full size USP, but I shoot the 97b just fine, and it doesn't feel awkward.
If you can, handle the full size USP and the compact side by side.
Examine the magazines, field strip them both, try to manipulate all the controls on both without shifting your grip, check your natural point of aim , etc.
While I like the USP full size, the compact was more suited to the size of my hand, and it feels like it belongs there when I'm shooting. It's a comfort thing.
I went to the store to buy a full size, handled them both, and left with the compact. Paid $830 back in 2001, can't imagine what they cost now....
If you can get the one you want for $600 DO IT NOW, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR!!!!!!!!!

1man
August 9, 2007, 10:09 AM
Usp45

1BLINDREF
August 9, 2007, 10:30 AM
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t307/dexternikki/Sigs/IMG_2545.jpg
These are my P220's (up untill today anyway :D ) I'm always lookig to add to my little collection. The top center is a P220 Carry SAS, the bottom center is a P220ST, and the left and right ones are old W.German "classics".
Personally - I like Sigs better than Hks. I shoot them better and they just feel "right" to me. I've had Hks and they just didn't fit me right. I also don't like the grips on the Hk, and unlike the Sigs, you can't change them.
Both are fine weapons that'll last you a lifetime if you take care of them. Like I always answer the "What gun should I buy" questions, get the one that fits YOU and that YOU shoot best. You can't go wrong with either.

gggman
August 9, 2007, 11:43 AM
My USP 45 is the most accurate auto I have ever fired, even more accurate than my Gold Cup. And it is very mild to shoot. Also, some people have griped about HK's customer service, but I had excellent service from them. I'm sure the Sig is a fine weapon, but I really love my USP. I've bought and sold many guns over the years, but I'll never part with my USP.

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