Most reliable 5.56 NATO assault rifle?


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wacki
August 5, 2007, 04:51 PM
Just curious, what is the most reliable 5.56 assault rifle that remains reasonably accurate and can handle peep sights? And by assault I mean semi-automatic rifle capable of handling 30 round magazines. I'm guessing a $900 high quality AK-47 style weapon will get a lot of votes but I prefer peep sights. Having the rear sight halfway down the gun is not my cup of tea when trying to shoot long distance w/ irons. So until they make ghost rings for AK's I'm staying away from them ...... well at least for long range plinking.

Feel free to discuss brand names as I know there are a million brands of AR's. The FN FS2000 which can be had at $1999 is about as much as I want to spend.

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Outlaws
August 5, 2007, 04:57 PM
...and my clips you mean magazines? ;)

wacki
August 5, 2007, 04:59 PM
Fixed, thank you for correcting me.

rangerruck
August 5, 2007, 05:10 PM
maybe a steyr Aug?

Bartholomew Roberts
August 5, 2007, 05:26 PM
Bofors claims a Mean Rounds Between Stoppage of 3,200 rounds for the AK-5 (a modified FNC).

The only other solid MRBS numbers I am aware of is SCAR has a threshhold requirement (must meet) of 2000 with an objective (we want to hit this) of 8000.

Some tests have Colt M16s going 6000 rounds with no stoppages while other tests also using Colt M16s show much less than 2000. It is kind of hard to compare since the tests are conducted at different times in the developmental history. Check out the stinet.mil links in the reading library (as well as some of the reading library links) for more info.

glockman19
August 5, 2007, 05:58 PM
I can't wait to get one. www.lanworldinc.com has them CA compliant for $2,182.81.

ClarkEMyers
August 5, 2007, 06:11 PM
My own personal money went for the Colt branded 6920 (see the table of features on another thread for AR15 rifles/M4gery carbines) but my vote on the question asked is SIG - and I don't mean the affordable 556 I mean the outrageous and limited availability Swiss pattern in semi-auto. The H&K in 5.56 is pretty reliable but with perhaps deficient ergonomics.

On the other hand I prefer my own Colt for my own use and run with proper lubrication and cleaning I expect a Colt to be reliable enough for failures to disappear in the statistical noise.

praharin
August 5, 2007, 06:39 PM
I can't wait to get one. www.lanworldinc.com has them CA compliant for $2,182.81.

they have a lot of stuff, and i hope you arent refering to the fs2000, because they are not the most reliable

Float Pilot
August 5, 2007, 07:34 PM
When you say Assault Rifle, (Sturm Gewehr) are you talking about a military issue select fire rifle with an intermediate power cartidge? OR are you talking about a semi-automatic light-rifle /carbine that has an appearence similar to military issue rifles?

For the real deal, the Finnish Valmets in 5.56mm and the Israeli Galils (really about the same thing) are pretty tough and reliable. Although many of the Galils are rather heavy for a 5.56 carbine size weapon. The safety on the Valmets is straight AK and not all that fun to use in a hurry.

While my issued M-16A2 (FN made) was more accurate, it was so dang tight that it had stoppages just by looking at it funny,,,, (until I ran a big stainless shotgun brush into the receiver while connected to an electric drill motor)...... my later issued M-4 lost muzzle velocity, took batteries that died and had decreased accuracy.. What happens when you try to make a light rifle into a sub-gun..Whooppy -doo..Although is was still better than the L85A2s the Brits were stuck with...

wacki
August 5, 2007, 10:03 PM
When you say Assault Rifle, (Sturm Gewehr) are you talking about a military issue select fire rifle with an intermediate power cartidge?

In my OP I Specified a 5.56 NATO semi-auto capable of using a 30 round clip. Select fire is not exactly something I'm going to buy anytime soon. So 3 round burst is off of the menu. Obviously weight is a consideration (the primary reason why I went with 5.56) in an assault rifle but I'm willing to consider anything. Reliability and accuracy are primary considerations and trump anything having to do with brand loyalty or looks. Reliability and accuracy have to be balanced though. I have to be able to hit what I'm shooting at with iron sights and I can't hit crap with any of the AK's I've shot.

Tony Williams
August 5, 2007, 10:18 PM
One of the most reliable ones is one you can't buy: the British L85A2. The L85A1 was terrible but the HK-modified A2 has received glowing reports from users and comfortably beat the M16 in comparative reliability tests.

I heard from a British soldier with extensive experience in the Middle East that the only other rifle used by an allied force which compared with the L85A2 for reliability was the Czech Kalashnikov variant.

jerkface11
August 5, 2007, 10:18 PM
What kind of reliability are you looking for?

Float Pilot
August 5, 2007, 10:45 PM
The Finnish and Israeli 5.56mm AK variants (Valmet and Galil) are much more accurate than the other AKs I have fired.. I was getting 2.5 inch groups at 100 meters with iron sights.
The Styr AUGs seem to be pretty accurate, but how would you ever get parts?

The AR series of guns may not be the most dirt resistant, but they are accurate and you an get lots of parts and magazines without going broke...

GunTech
August 5, 2007, 10:48 PM
I'm betting that aside from the AK, the FNC will be way up there. It's a simplified AK system. Mine never, ever had a FTF, FTE or any other stoppage. But with the pencil thin barrel it wasn't particularly accurate and would heat up. Also, mounting opytics is a real PITA, and you have to have the special scope base.

Tony, my concern with the L85A2 is the AR-180 type system. It's become popular, used in rifles like the G36. But we discovered, shooting full auto version, that a hot chamber will detemper the recoil spring, and eventually the bolt won't always go into battery.

I'm glad to here the L85A2 is better. I had a chance to test fire the original and it was absolutely horrible - but still better than the Austraian Leader. Considering what the upgrade cost, they had better be improved

I'm not terribly keen on any bullpup, particularly ones that have side eject. I find the balance wrong and magazine changes to be exceptionally awkward. But I'm sure that most British troops, having never handled any other firearm, find the ergonomics just fine.

If you favor AK reliability but want something a bit more accurate, what about the Valmet or Galil? I shot a friends Valmet this weekend, and lo and behold - an accurate AK! We had no problem hitting clay pigeons with iron at about 125 yards.

GunTech
August 5, 2007, 11:23 PM
Float pilot,

I bought two AUGs when they first came out. A stabnard, and a 16inch black stock. Neither wins any awards for accuracy. A little worse than an AR, and much worse than an AR with a free float handguard. I think the AUG gets votes because so many people haven't fired them. I have a friend in the NZ army, and he hated the AUG - much prefering the M16. And that's not saying a lot.

Heavy Metal Hero
August 5, 2007, 11:32 PM
H&k 416

W.E.G.
August 5, 2007, 11:45 PM
I am 100% comfortable with the AR15/M16 class.

However, I cannot stress enough, the importance of wringing it out thoroughly to establish reliability or your particular rifle. There are many small variations on this class of rifle, and changing a small thing can really screw you up if you haven't trained, or you haven't adjusted something that requires adjustment. Also bear in mind the importance of quality ammo. This class of rifles does not tolerate crappy ammo the same way a #4 Enfield might.

lwrnc1963
August 6, 2007, 12:33 AM
Galil, hands down.

wacki
August 6, 2007, 01:46 AM
If you favor AK reliability but want something a bit more accurate, what about the Valmet or Galil?

Ya this seems to fit the bill nicely. Peep sights, reliable, and accurate. I like weight of NATO weapons better but that's not a big deal. The SAR doesn't look too bad:

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3972/galilpostleua1.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5918/r5withhwsee3.jpg
We might have a winner here. Now I just need to find out where to get one....

Seems like that Valmet, Galil, and R4 are all pretty much the same gun.

GunTech
August 6, 2007, 02:03 AM
Century is selling the Golani, which is supposed to be decent - although after having a Century CETME, I'm not sure if I'd trust them. Hopefully, they are employing a better class of Monkey.

Red Stick also has a 'semi' Galil, Galil furniture with a stamped AK receiver. Real IMI Galils are going for something like $3,500.

http://www.centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI1410%2DX&cat=54

dscottw88
August 6, 2007, 02:15 AM
The m4/m16 family has ergonomics that still havn't been beaten since it was introduced back in the 1960's. Its bolt lock op-system makes it one of the most accurate semi-auto rifles on earth. With so many options, variants, and custom layouts, it is by far IMO the best NATO rifle/carbine in the world.

FN/form
August 6, 2007, 02:30 AM
Quality Galil builds + current mag prices will set you back a bit. Then there's the issue of spare parts...

ARs have a lot going for them. I have learned you want to buy from a Tier 1 mfr, keep it wet with a good lube, and you are doing the best you can with an AR.

I'd personally like to go with a Robinson XCR for any 5.56. Especially so since I'm and FAL kind of guy. But if I stay in LE, I'll probably go with an AR for liability/training issues.


-josh

siskiyou3
August 6, 2007, 04:57 AM
AK clones, vepr .223 or the arsenal .223s

stevelyn
August 6, 2007, 10:37 AM
The Korean built Daewoo. I've had my K2 since '94 and don't recall having one stoppage during training, plinking or even when snow and ice caked the action while riding a snowmachine in subzero weather during wolf hunts.

Too bad the first Bush jackass banned their importation via executive order.:mad:

alucard0822
August 6, 2007, 10:46 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=291451


we recently had this same topic come up, might be some useful info for you here

AndyC
August 6, 2007, 01:46 PM
Galil would take my vote - South Africa has used their locally-made variant, the R4, under extreme conditions in bush warfare.

155gunner
August 7, 2007, 02:12 AM
The Daewoo, either the pre-ban K-2 or the post-ban Dr-200. Great rifle and have never had a problem. Parts can be a little scarce though.

Trebor
August 7, 2007, 03:11 AM
Here's another vote for the Dawoo K2 (AR 100). They are hard to find and a bit pricey though as they haven't been imported since 1989.

There is someone making some Daewood parts now. I believe the URL is www.daewoodparts.com or some variation of that.

Domino
August 7, 2007, 08:25 AM
I'd say go with the XCR if you don't mind the $1,300 price tag. It sounds like exactly what your looking for.

http://www.robarm.com/XCR_Gallery.htm

carbine85
October 27, 2007, 11:20 AM
Tony, my concern with the L85A2 is the AR-180 type system. It's become popular, used in rifles like the G36. But we discovered, shooting full auto version, that a hot chamber will detemper the recoil spring, and eventually the bolt won't always go into battery.


Can you explain this in more detail. The operating springs are in the upper receiver. You would think that the heat is disipated under the handgaurd. Any heat issues should be easily corrected with better ventilation or perhaps different springs. I have heard this before but never quit understood how it is
**I just realized that the operating spring a rod spring are one of the same. I was thinking the reoil spring and operating spring where the same. I'm still curious why heat is a problem**

ftierson
October 27, 2007, 03:04 PM
The Daewoo K2 is one of the best out there...

Parts availability is tricky, although getting better...

I have fired just about all of the modern rifles out there and, although there's always that exotic factor working when discussing guns of any type that forces people to pick stuff that they've never worked with, when properly maintained (as every weapon must be to remain reliable) it's really hard to beat the AR-15/M16 rifles...

Flame away...

:)

Forrest

briansmithwins
October 27, 2007, 03:12 PM
How about a red dot sight? Irons are there for back up if needed.

Arsenal SLR106FR in 5.56 NATO: Available for about $750 NIB, unlike the Valmet and Galil which you'll be lucky to find under $2k used. Mine has functioned 100% and magazines are available @$25 a pop. Rifle shoots ~2.5MOA groups. BSW

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/briansmithwins/right-4.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/briansmithwins/151986557-L.jpg

DiN_BLiX
October 27, 2007, 09:56 PM
No fans of the AC556/mini14? not the most accurate out of the box but with alittle tuning and good mags its rock solid.

groda
October 27, 2007, 11:58 PM
The SLR-106FR is a fine rifle, but I wouldn't call it the most reliable. I ran about two FTE's per range trip (ca 250 rounds) this summer with Brown Bear.

On the other hand, it's a fun rifle and 2 MOA is pretty spiffy.

Never No More
October 28, 2007, 12:32 AM
Most reliable 5.56 NATO assault rifle?

First off, unless yer as bleeding heart liberal, or part of the anti-gun media

AR stands AUTO RIFLE

According to the DOD, the ONLY assult rifle is the AK family or MILITARY
rifles, not the look-a-likes you and I can buy.

$900 for an AKS? Geez you can buy 3 of them for that.

elmerfudd
October 28, 2007, 12:53 AM
AR stands for Armalite.

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