Going to pick up my Saiga 12 today.

[Correia]

Ordered one from CDNN. It is sitting at my FFLs. There has been considerable discussion about these here, so I figure I'll give this gun a good ringing out and report back. I've shot Saigas but not enough to form a very good opinion.

For the record I'm an 870 kind of guy when it comes to shotguns, but I absolutely love the AK when it comes to rifles, so this should be interesting. :)

I'm a fanatical 3 gunner, and shotgun is by far my best weapon. So I'm going to wring it out in that manner. I've got a match on the 19th, but I've got quite a bit at stake in that particular match, so I don't plan on switching guns, still going to use the 870 for that. However I'll run it through the same strings under time and see how it handles.

[Nippy]

I've shot Saigas but not enough to form a very good opinion.

You don't know it till you've owned it!! Don't slam it till you've sold it.. tis all I can say :D

I'll be waiting to hear the report, i like shotguns and that is one shotgun I would like to check out as well.

[Sven]

This has the detachable mag, right? If so, my experience with this gun was that I had a really hard time getting the mags to seat.... I mean a REAL hard time.

Let us know.

[Dave McCracken]

Eagerly awaiting the T&E, Corriea.

[Sir Galahad]

The thing about hard to seat mags in the Saiga shotguns is that you really have to hold the bolt open when inserting the mag for easy insertion.

[Correia]

I practiced the magazine insertion last night with mags full of dummy rounds. (won't get to actually shoot until the weekend). Loading with the bolt locked back is easy, however that kind of defeats the purpose for fast loading. Having the manipulate the bolt slows you down far to much.

5 round mag could be inserted with practice. 8 rounders had a lot more spring pressure. The top shell sticks out so far that it puts pressure on the bottom of the bolt, so you have to rock it in, while putting sufficient pressure on the top shell.

Thing is that is really TOUGH. Doing a traditonal AK speed reload (fingers on front of mag, thumb on back side towards top of mag, rock in, use thumb pressure to push up) just plain don't work with the 8 rounders. And I have good hand strength. Putting your firing hand on the receiver instead of the grip also allows you to exert greater cross pressure and get the mag in there faster.

However if you reverse your grip, so that your hand is basically upside down, (thumb towards bottom of mag) that allows you to use the heel of your hand to put enough pressure to insert the mag. I found the fastest way to do a speed reload was to use the support hand to drop the spent mag, reach for spare (reverse grip as described above) bring muzzle upwards, place mag lips into place while sliding firing hand forward to top of receiver, rotate in and squeeze hands together! :D

Base times (timer starting at dropping used mag, or dropping support hand to grab shells) Using the 870 and hand thumbing 4 shells in at a time around 2 seconds.

Using the Saiga and the method listed above, 8 shells in 3 - 3.5. I bet that I could shave some of that off with practice. Keep in mind that that is also with the bolt closed (reloading with a round still in the chamber). If the Saiga is run dry the the bolt must be manipulated to chamber another round.

[Sir Galahad]

Where did you find 8 round mags for it?

[Al Thompson]

What's the guage? Or are they all 20's?

[Correia]

Sir G. I bought all of the ones my Dealer had. Since this is a standard stocked weapon (no PG) its detachable mag is its one evil feature. 8 rounders are legal, just hard to find.

Al, it is a 12 guage.

Did not get to shoot yesterday. Got a pistol night shoot tonight. Doubt I'll be able to get any shotgunning in today now.

[Sven]

Valtro makes a detachable mag shotty - pump action:

http://www.valtrousa.com/shotgunphotos/pm5/pistrolgripshotgunfullstock.jpg

Capacity: 7 Rounds +1 in chamber

http://www.valtrousa.com/shotgunphotos/pm5/pm5accessoriesthumbnail.jpg

http://www.valtrousa.com/shotguns.html

[another okie]

Well, where's our report? I'm thinking of buying one of these for 3 gun and I'm curious about whether it will reliably cycle light 2 3/4 loads.

[Correia]

Going out Saturday morning. Got 2 rifles, 1 pistol, and this Saiga to wring out. :)

[rrader]

Sven:

Valtro makes a detachable mag shotty - pump action:

Izhevsky (Baikal) does also:

http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng/prod/rifle/mr131k/

http://www.baikalinc.ru/ico/prod/rifle/mr131k/mr131k.gif


"For a long time past the field-proven locking system of Russian small firearms operates on three-lugs at bolt rotation.

Unique ammo feed features a fixed tubular and takeoff box magazines for simultaneous loading of two ammo grades and fast re-switching from one magazine to another, the feed selector being located on RH side of a box magazine.

Hammer-type trigger unit located on a takeoff base prevents shots if the gun is not fully locked. Safety works on trigger.

The version with a barrel length of 700 mm is available with a set of screw-in chokes ranging from Cylinder to Full."

[cpileri]

Man do I want one of those Saiga 12's so bad!
But I want a private sale tho.
And i wont pay MD's exorbitant mark-ups.
And looks like I wont be buying any ammo in MD (at Galyan's anyway).
But hey, if anyoen comes across one- or even the 20ga version- available for private sale...
I need a buddy in VA or PA who will keep me in the loop from a more free state, says I.
C-