Fal Spr?


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Mumbles_45
August 7, 2007, 02:55 PM
poking around here recently I came across this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=293731&highlight=SPR

which led me here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle

Which gave me the idea to try turning my FAL into something along the same lines: A precision rifle not quite full sized but bigger than a CQB carbine. I guess a DM rifle. Do you think similar accuracy could be achieved or does the FAL just not lend itself to that kind of thing. Any recomendations on what barrel, where to get work done, and where to find a free float tube with rails?

I haven't given too much thought to this yet, I don't really know how much I'd be able to spend, or what kind of accuracy I would settle for. Just an idea I got while I was bored.

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Deer Hunter
August 7, 2007, 03:06 PM
Take a look at this thread from FALfiles. I want to make a DM FAL one day as well.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=203774&highlight=FAL+match+trigger

Father Knows Best
August 7, 2007, 03:16 PM
You will hear from quite a few people here who will say that the FAL is simply an inherently inaccurate platform. You will hear others who say that's not true. Who cares? You can certainly have fun building a FAL just the way you like it.

Personally, I think the FAL is a great platform for the SPR concept. It is too heavy to really be optimal as a CQB carbine, and a short barrel robs the 7.62 NATO round of much of its energy. At the same time, it will never be as capable of long range precision work as a good bolt gun, or a well built M14/M1A.

In my view, the ultimate FAL would be built using DSA uppers and lowers, folding buttstock, and an 18" "medium contour" barrel. DSA will do a nice trigger job on it for you, if you ask. DSA does offer a free float tube, if I remember correctly, though I'm not sure I would go that route. With a good barrel and trigger and high quality ammo, an 18" FAL is perfectly capable of 1.5 MOA, and perhaps 1 MOA, which would be more than adequate for my purposes.

If you're really going for extreme long range accuracy in the FAL platform, then a 21" heavy barrel would be the best bet, along with the free float tube. DSA catalogs just such a model, I believe.

cameron.personal
August 7, 2007, 03:39 PM
Having a good barrel is not really that hard to get, it is the relationship of the bolt to the breech, and the use of a locking shoulder and the way an FAL chambers each round that causes the accuracy to suffer. However, you can come across an FAL that has all the components together "just right" that will produce an accurate rifle. There are many examples of DSA SA58s that can produce 1-2 MOA with the right ammunition and the right monkey working the trigger, but there are many more examples of FALs that are 3-4MOA at best.

I was sighting in my scope over the weekend and started at 50 yards and shot a 3 hole 5 shot group using Black Hills 175gr BTHP Match ammo

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m198/2007cam/DSA%20Para/DSASA585shots50yards.jpg

While the dope was off from the 150gr American Eagle FMJ I had zeroed the scope with, I did manage this one group of 5 rounds of Black Hills match at 100 yards, that measures approx 1.25MOA.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m198/2007cam/DSA%20Para/DSASA585shots100yards.jpg

This rifle is a 16.25" DSA SA58 which has a Badger Custom Target barrel that is hand lapped, with a 11 degree target crown. I was also loading 1 round at a time with no mag in the rifle. As sometimes an FAL mag spring pressure can effect lock up. I want to try for the same groups next time with a loaded mag. I am only using a 4 power scope so I imagine I would be more consistent with a higher power.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m198/2007cam/DSASA58ParaTacCarbineIORScope02.jpg

I have several other groups that are closer to 2MOA than 1MOA before I ran out of Black Hills match.

The question would really be what sort of practical accuracy do you need from a semi auto rifle like this? 3MOA would mean approx 18inch groups at 600yards.... 2MOA would be 12inch at the same distance, certainly not precision rifle groups but certainly enough to act as a DM rifle.

Cameron

Crunker1337
August 7, 2007, 07:33 PM
I don't want to be ignorant, but what does DM stand for in this context?

Deer Hunter
August 7, 2007, 07:35 PM
Designated Marksman.

HorseSoldier
August 7, 2007, 08:03 PM
DSA makes a version of the SA 58 set up as an SPR (http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58SPR), though the $4795 MSRP may be a bit outside most budgets. If I'm not mistaken, it met the accuracy requirements for the SASS Rifle program (SR-25 was selected for other reasons), so an FAL can be as accurate as an M14/M1A with the right set up.

BigSoundRacing
August 7, 2007, 08:31 PM
Here you go....

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i15/BigSoundRacing/DSC05747_50.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i15/BigSoundRacing/DSC05744_50.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i15/BigSoundRacing/DSC05739_50.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i15/BigSoundRacing/under_side.jpg

BigSoundRacing
August 7, 2007, 08:33 PM
double post, sorry

Mine started as a SA58 Para, Medium Contour Barrel - then added the SPR Folding Stock later. The SPR Stock is great for me because I am broader then the average bear. That last pic shows the cheek rest knob coming back against the receiver, just be aware.

I ordered a second rifle in the exact configuration - like it!!

Be safe, BSR

BigSoundRacing
August 7, 2007, 08:35 PM
triple post, sorry

DMK
August 7, 2007, 10:01 PM
You will hear from quite a few people here who will say that the FAL is simply an inherently inaccurate platform. You will hear others who say that's not true. Who cares? You can certainly have fun building a FAL just the way you like it.I think this mainly comes from the fact that the front and rear sights are on separate detachable halves. Any play in the upper/lower lockup could cause accuracy problems. Until just a five or six years ago, there really weren't any good scope mounts on the market. However, now that's changed and with optics firmly mounted to the upper, the sighting issue is solved. In fact, with a tight upper/lower fit, it's mainly a non-issue even with irons (although the wide, cone shaped front sight isn't the best for precision shooting).

FALs are also sensitive to gas system misalignment, or one that's improperly tuned. Of course, most piston guns are.

They can be sensitive to pressure from the handguards. It can be a pain to get them to fit just right (kind of like the Garand). There is no really good free float handguard setup.

There are supposedly some issues with some bolts not sitting in the carrier in the same exact way every shot. This may also be affected by the magazine and how much pressure the spring is putting on it.

I don't think any of these issues are insurmountable, but like the Garand, it has unique quirks and not a lot of folks know how to get them tuned just right. Some of these issues may be beyond the average garage gunsmith's ability to correct.

However, the info is out there and there are some good FAL 'smiths if you have patience and do your homework.

GunTech
August 7, 2007, 10:10 PM
If you can get a gas block from an Israeli HB FAL, and free float the barrel, you can go a long way to making an FAL a more accurate shooter. But it will never equal a bolt gun (of course) or a match grade AR-10 variant. Other have mention some of the reason. There's also the oscillation induced in the barrel by the op rod. On feature about the direct action ARs people tht is important to accuracy is the fact that there is no moving mass above the barrel causing torsional stresses at the gas block.

Mumbles_45
August 8, 2007, 10:35 AM
Thanks for the replies.

I notice the DSA SPR doesn't have a free float tube.

Most of my FAL is pretty worn, it's about a 3-4 minute gun with M80, Groups get huge, like 7" with 168g BTHP, don't know why. It's an Imbel reciever with STG-58 parts of unknown history. I got it for $650 at a gun show. Do you think it's worth putting money into, or should I just start over with DSA? I've got the money, and 2 FALs are better than one, but there's other guns I'd like to buy and my Jeep is feeling neglected. Also I hear there is a fairly long wait for DSA, but I guess I would have to put up with various shorter waits if I'm going to have it worked on.

Father Knows Best
August 8, 2007, 11:05 AM
Start with a new SA58. It's worth the wait and the cost.

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