30 rd mag for saiga 223


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doubled
August 7, 2007, 03:02 PM
Just came across a saiga 223, have seen 30 rd mags for them at $50.00 a pop, any one know the best mag to modify for the 223 saiga.
hate to give $50.00 per mag, wouldn't take many and would have more money in mags then rifle. thanks for any help

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Deer Hunter
August 7, 2007, 03:07 PM
I use Orlite Galil 35 rounders. Just dremel or smooth off the shoulders a bit to get them to fit into the mag-well and you're set to go, as long as you put in a bullet guide and convert the saiga to make it compliant. The orlites can be found for 10-15 dollars a piece.

nalioth
August 7, 2007, 03:37 PM
Whether you spend $50 on a no-mod magazine, or $10 + bullet guide, you can't forget the 922r following the 'high cap in a sporter' situation.

MD_Willington
August 7, 2007, 05:40 PM
by a mag clamp and pop two 10's into the mag clamp...

Samuraigg
August 7, 2007, 08:43 PM
WAIT!

Don't use the mags until you read up on 922r. You are breaking the law if you put the high cap magazines into a saiga that hasn't been converted or otherwise has enough parts swapped out to meet the requirements.

guywithglasses
August 7, 2007, 09:02 PM
+1 for the Galil Orlites (assuming 922r compliance). They are easy to modify and feed well.

http://www.guywithglasses.com/pics/saiga.jpg

rbernie
August 8, 2007, 11:09 AM
Don't use the mags until you read up on 922r. You are breaking the law if you put the high cap magazines into a saiga that hasn't been converted or otherwise has enough parts swapped out to meet the requirements.
Do you have actual documentation of this from the F Troop, or are you just repeating what you've heard?

LaEscopeta
August 8, 2007, 11:13 AM
Do you have actual documentation of this from the F Troop, or are you just repeating what you've heard?+1. A search for "Saiga 922(r)" will return the issues of a 30 round mag in a stock Saiga. It will also return a lot of clap trap but that's how it goes on the internet.

rbernie
August 8, 2007, 11:24 AM
Feels like I've read most of the claptrap. :) But in all of that, I've seen nobody post an actual scan of a letter from the F Troop weighing in on the matter one way or another.

I *believe* modifying the Saiga will run afoul of 922(r). But until the BATFE explicitly declares a non-sporting Saiga to be prohibited from importation, we're all guessing at this and should be careful not to speak overly definitively on the matter.

MudPuppy
August 8, 2007, 02:43 PM
922r is an import and manufactuing regulation, right? You're not importing or assembling a gun are ya?
(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.
(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of Sec. 178.151; or

(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Butt stocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, hand guards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floor plates

[T.D. ATF-346, 58 FR 40589, July 29, 1993]

EFFECT ON STATE LAW
Expiration of the Federal law will not change any provisions of State law or local ordinances. Questions concerning State assault weapons restrictions should be referred to State and local authorities.

U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives


But seriously, those laws are designed to be understood so be careful.

More importantly, where's me some 10-15 dollar orlites?

nalioth
August 8, 2007, 02:55 PM
922r is an import and manufactuing regulation, right? You're not importing or assembling a gun are ya?

Inserting a magazine can be construed as "assembling". They have 3 countable parts under the 922r.

MD_Willington
August 8, 2007, 04:10 PM
CDNN is the best bet for Orlites, now that you know, you have to send me $5 for each one you buy since you're now part of the secret club.. LOL

LaEscopeta
August 8, 2007, 05:55 PM
Inserting a magazine can be construed as "assembling". They have 3 countable parts under the 922r.Yes, it can be, and the operative word is “can.”

As far as I know ATF has not stated a stock Saiga with a 30 round magazine inserted is or is not “particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.” Nor has ATF stated a stock Saiga is or is not “readily adaptable to sporting purposes” if it is still capable of functioning with the original 10 round magazine. How much more readily adaptable can you get then taking out the 30 round mag and putting the 10 round one back?

If you convert your Saiga to 10 or fewer imported parts, including the 3 in the 30 round mag, you know you are safe. Right now, no one knows if ATF considers a stock (non-converted) Saiga with a 30 round mag in violation of 922(r) or not.

Daemon688
August 8, 2007, 07:02 PM
Add to the further confusion that Izhmash (sp?) imports these rifles with skeletonized stocks. Which the ATF considers a pistol grip and therefore would make it an assault rifle. But yet the ATF allows importation, so the russian skeletonized stocks are a-ok but a US made one would not be. This type of topic has come up before and the general concensus is: Better safe than sorry.

Samuraigg
August 9, 2007, 12:04 AM
The near consensus I saw on the Saiga-12 forums was that putting a 30 round magazine into an unconverted saiga counted as "assembling" a rifle. Considering that the magazines count as three 922r parts, I believe the ATF would agree with this assessment.

Keep in mind the 30 round magazines I saw for the Saiga weren't designed for it. The Saiga is specifically designed to NOT take high cap magazines. The 7.62 mags I saw for it were AK47 magazines that are modified to work in the Saiga. Again, you are "modifying" the gun here to use an evil feature. Bad news unless you are 922r compliant.

If you really feel its worth the risk then don't let me stop you. But considering we haven't heard from the ATF that its NOT considering assembling, I know I would stick on the safe side.

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