Utah allows Canadians to CCW


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Lucky
August 8, 2007, 01:58 PM
After many months (January) Utah seems to have lifted their hold order on allowing CCWs to Canadians. I understood it was the Deputy Director (Public Safety, I think) that froze all issuings. The given story was that someone tried to start Utah CCW courses in Israel and that was too much attention, so all foreigners were halted. Good news all around, will update as more details come in.

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tinygnat219
August 8, 2007, 02:01 PM
Glad to hear.

We like seeing armed Canucks on this side of the border. Have you looked into getting a New Hampshire permit as well? Simple to get, and they border Canada.

arthurcw
August 8, 2007, 02:16 PM
More good guys carrying guns. I get that warm fuzzy feeling.

RockyMtnTactical
August 8, 2007, 02:18 PM
Glad to hear it. All gun toting canucks are welcome here. Liberal canucks are welcome to stay in Canada.

Hoppy590
August 8, 2007, 02:55 PM
congrats to our pistol packing friends to the north.

[Price is Right voice ] COME ON DOWN! [/Price is Right voice]

Prince Yamato
August 8, 2007, 03:38 PM
I bet this is driving the Liberal and NDP party NUTS !

Joe Sacco
August 8, 2007, 03:42 PM
Wait'll they have to include Mexicans, too. Then we'll see what a dandy idea it is. Best, Joe

MD_Willington
August 8, 2007, 03:58 PM
I'll have to see about getting a Utah carry permit too then...

Well you know us Canadians we like to collect cards... Hockey cards, football cards, baseball cards...

So who's here wants to start up a license collection.. I already have one for WA....!

romma
August 8, 2007, 04:01 PM
I only have three.. CT (homestate),FL and NH.. Oh woe is me!!

wjustinen
August 8, 2007, 04:33 PM
where my UT permit allowed me to carry concealed. Thank you.

:):):)

adrock
August 8, 2007, 04:36 PM
where my UT permit allowed me to carry concealed.

What's involved in taking a pistol through a US/Canada border crossing?

For that matter, what about the legality of a US citizen taking a pistol into Canada?

--adrock

Correia
August 8, 2007, 04:40 PM
Wait'll they have to include Mexicans, too. Then we'll see what a dandy idea it is. Best, Joe

So. What.

If they're a Legal Resident Alien, they are allowed to purchase firearms. Why should basic rights of self defense be denied?

Jorg Nysgerrig
August 8, 2007, 04:45 PM
Wait'll they have to include Mexicans, too. Then we'll see what a dandy idea it is. Best, Joe

Don't worry, Joe. We'll issue them to anyone, no matter where they are from, even Texas. Love, Utah.

CK
August 9, 2007, 02:01 AM
Yayyyy!!!!!;)

Autolite
August 9, 2007, 02:26 AM
So how does a Canadian go about obtaining a Utah CCW? What's the first step???

Euclidean
August 9, 2007, 02:38 AM
I'm assuming this is mostly symbolic. I mean, can a visiting Canadian even buy a handgun in the US of A? And I understand that for some Canadians getting one in their native country is difficult. Even if they could, does the US allow firearms brought in? I understand that an American is dead meat if he's caught armed in Canada unless he goes through a long and expensive permit process.

Autolite
August 9, 2007, 02:54 AM
Euclidean, I am betting that you're correct reference that the Utah CCW for Canadians is probably a symbolic gesture. However, where did you get the notion that it is difficult for a Canadian to obtain a handgun? I'm Canadian and I own several handguns. I also have several friends who collect handguns. I keep my licence current and neither I nor anyone I know has ever had a problem acquiring a handgun. I am curious as to where you get your information???

brentn
August 9, 2007, 02:58 AM
So your telling me that canadians are allowed to carry in some states? They'll give you a licence even though you live in canada?

crazy, I want one.

brentn
August 9, 2007, 03:01 AM
I'm assuming this is mostly symbolic. I mean, can a visiting Canadian even buy a handgun in the US of A? And I understand that for some Canadians getting one in their native country is difficult. Even if they could, does the US allow firearms brought in? I understand that an American is dead meat if he's caught armed in Canada unless he goes through a long and expensive permit process.

We own guns, they are not hard to get as long as you have a licence. Point being it would be guns that we bring into your country, for hunting or target shooting competitions, etc. There is a form to fill at the border if you want to bring in any type of gun, the only guns that cannot come back into the country are prohibited weapons. So if a canadian owns one, has a licence for it, forget about traveling with it.

Americans can bring guns into our country provided that it is not prohibited, they can also NOT carry them, no matter what. There is a form to fill for each province, as far as I know, that gives americans temp gun licences for hunting/transporting.

Autolite
August 9, 2007, 03:06 AM
brentn, this is beginning to sound like something that's worth pursuing. Just imagine, if enough of us apply maybe Utah and Alberta could establish some sort of CCW permit reciprocity :) :) :)

Lucky
August 9, 2007, 03:52 AM
Tinygnat NH was an option I chose to get at the time I took the course.

Adrock I think it's easier for me to take a pistol to the US than you to take one here. Suffice to say a binder and forms are needed either way, but much less approvals needed for me (aiui I just show up with all the documents and the pistol, you'd need to get approvals ahead of time). Of course now I've got to buy a non-Norinco pistol.

Autolite there were some people who'd do it themselves, but it's not easy, there's fingerprinting and ID stuff involved, so I just took the seminar from Safeguard Intl., which has tons of good info to boot. And they do the paper-work for you.

Euclidean, can't buy. Can possess. That's where the hunting license came in. Buying pistols in Canada is simple, after getting licensed. For bringing guns into the US, I believe competitions and such are enough reason. Took the course around New-Years, so some refreshing is needed.

BrentN, not only should you want and get one, you should complain loudly that a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT trusts you more than you own! And if it can be evidenced that 10,000 or 100,000 Canadians have applied for and gotten US CCWs, then the gov't cannot deny that there is substantial demand for such a program in our own country. We're on the offensive now.

All - Canada already has permits to carry pistols concealed, it's called an ATC (authorization to carry) but is as rare as hen's teeth in being 'granted' (the reason why some US states have 'shall issue'!). http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cr/SOR-98-207///en It is joked that when a crazy man broke into a previous Prime Minister's house (the one who banned the guns) his wife held him at bay with an 'Inuit stone carving', and you make air quotes with your fingers when you say the last part.

brentn
August 9, 2007, 05:27 AM
brentn, this is beginning to sound like something that's worth pursuing. Just imagine, if enough of us apply maybe Utah and Alberta could establish some sort of CCW permit reciprocity
God I wish ;) too bad gun legislation means federal legislation and whatever the provincials decide don't mean jack unless federal agree's...

Is it possible to NOT go to utah and apply for the CCW? As in can I apply over the phone/fax and get the permit so when I actually do go there I can carry? Someone show me the way and I will do it!

Euclidean
August 9, 2007, 06:09 AM
This is all very interesting.

The problem is that (us) Americans are so caught up in our own firearms laws (which are every bit as complicated as any other country's despite some assertions to the contrary) it's very hard to really be informed about anyone else's. And you can see I'm in Texas, so I go nowhere near Canada. I don't cross the Canadian border on any sort of frequent basis.

I only catch little bits of information from forums like this one. I've heard everything from Canada has a tiered license system which requires a long and expensive process to be able to buy something like a semiautomatic rifle and that every gun is registered. I've heard that at every step of the way the government has the "right" to say no, you have too many guns already, or you can't buy it, etc. I've heard that most Canadians don't have or can't get the license one needs for a semiautomatic long gun or pistol.

I've heard that even if you can get a handgun, the barrel has to be 5" or longer or something to that effect. I've also heard that there's a 10 round limit or something to that effect on all magazines.

I've even heard that western provinces in Canada ignore many of the federal gun laws completely and just don't enforce them.

Strangely enough I've also heard that a shotgun barrel shorter than 18.5" is no big deal assuming one is legally allowed to own a shotgun and doesn't require any special registration or tax stamp, and that Canadians can import a lot of firearms no American can.

I've heard that if a Canadian does own a pistol, he can only carry it to certain designations, and it must be unloaded and carried in a locked container.

I don't know if any of this is true or not.

I guess it's like the USA: our laws range from total prohibition to a fair amount of freedom relative to other nations, just depending on exactly where you are. I know I've shocked a lot of non US dwellers by relaying how many draconian laws Texas has...

Also try to understand my frame of reference. What is accepted as standard practice for firearms ownership in some countries is extreme from my viewpoint and I guess to someone else what goes on here could look very loose and free.

Trying to draw generalizations about the gun laws of most countries is fruitless. I bet some of the things I've heard are true, some are false, some are misinterpreted, and the others have a grain of truth in them but the real situation is more complicated than what I think I know.

I do like however to have a decent idea of what the reality is in various places across the world. A vague, mostly accurate idea.

My understanding is that no Canadian can legally get any gun without a special permit and registration process, and that certain guns like handguns and semiautomatic firearms of any kind are a special class of firearm most people can't legally buy because they don't have or can't get or can't afford the permits. I understand that each gun is registered and requires its own permit. I also understand if you actually did use a gun in self defense or carry a loaded gun outside of a hunting context, you would be severely punished, and that self defense is not considered a viable reason for firearms ownership.

That's as I understand it. I'm not saying that's correct, or that that's the long and short of it. Apparently Canadian gun laws aren't quite as tight as I originally thought.

brentn
August 9, 2007, 06:34 AM
To answer 'what you've heard'


I only catch little bits of information from forums like this one. I've heard everything from Canada has a tiered license system which requires a long and expensive process to be able to buy something like a semiautomatic rifle and that every gun is registered. I've heard that at every step of the way the government has the "right" to say no, you have too many guns already, or you can't buy it, etc. I've heard that most Canadians don't have or can't get the license one needs for a semiautomatic long gun or pistol.

Every gun IS registered to your name, if you give it to a friend to keep and he moves away and you do not tell the government, or he doesn't have a licence, if they find out you no longer have it you will face charges. As long as you have a clean record (mental/criminal) you can apply for a gun licence. Licensing falls into two catagories

Non Restricted, Restricted and Prohibited
Click here to understand what each class is (http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/factsheets/default_e.asp)
Anyone applicable for a licence can get a non-restricted/restricted licence

've heard that even if you can get a handgun, the barrel has to be 5" or longer or something to that effect. I've also heard that there's a 10 round limit or something to that effect on all magazines
4.1" to be exact. Anything less is prohib and not legal to own (unless you have a prohib licence, they are not issued to regular people). The 10 round magazine limit is correct, no more otherwise its prohibited.

I've even heard that western provinces in Canada ignore many of the federal gun laws completely and just don't enforce them.

I don't know who told you this, where you heard it, but I HIGHLY doubt it to be true. Every province follows the BASE rules the government has set up, everyone registers and all firearms are classed. Some provinces are very strict on authorization to transport (see below). In my province my ATT is good for 5 years, to any range and any of my restricted guns.

Strangely enough I've also heard that a shotgun barrel shorter than 18.5" is no big deal assuming one is legally allowed to own a shotgun and doesn't require any special registration or tax stamp, and that Canadians can import a lot of firearms no American can
A definite 'pro' of the canadian system. Pump/break action shotguns are not classified the same as other guns, and they are only classed by overall length. So if the barrel is 14" but with the stock the overall length is over 26" then it is non-restricted. If its less than 26" including the use of a folding stock/pistol grip, it is restricted. Either way, you can own it and its no big deal.

I've heard that if a Canadian does own a pistol, he can only carry it to certain designations, and it must be unloaded and carried in a locked container.
All restricted guns (handguns are all restricted) must be transported like you mentioned. They all must have an ATT (authorization to transport), this is a form that you apply for by talking to your CFO (chief firearms officer) of your province. Basically you fill out a form, fax it in to the CFO and they approve the transportation of your restricted firearms. Mentioned above, some provinces are completley anal about this and you have to apply EVERY time you goto the damn range... its pathetic.

Canadian gun laws aren't quite as tight as I originally thought.
They are tighter than yours, but not as tight as some other countries. Generally magazine capacity, barrel length and weapon types are all governed. Sometimes a weapon, even though it falls into a restricted/non-restricted classification (such as its overall length/barrel length) are still deemed prohibited...
Its retarded because say for example you want to buy an AK, the government basically labeled it as prohibited because it "looks menacing". I'm not kidding, we aren't allowed to have it becauase even though it could be legal by its dimensions they said no cause its 'evil'. These are the things I hate, they did this with all the FNfals, the AK's, Uzi's, and any 'bullpup' design.

That link I gave pretty much will answer ALL of these questions, and just for kick look at the "weapons prescribed as 'restricted/prohibited'". All those weapons deemed restricted, means that we cannot hunt with them or bring them anywhere other than a range, and the ones deemed prohib are the ones that we cannot have, period.

SCULLY
August 9, 2007, 09:44 AM
You Canadians that are asking about how you get a U.S CCW, should atleast check out our own "Canadian" gun forum. Its all old news........ www.canadiangunnutz.com . There is a CCW section and how to take the course offered by Safegaurd. Hope this helps.

MD_Willington
August 9, 2007, 11:00 AM
Yes certain visiting Canadians can purchase firearms in the US, the BATFE has details regarding this on their website. I can buy mine because I have a Green Card and a State License to purchase and own. If you're fortunate enough, you can even get a waiver from the DOJ that circumvents the BATFE rulings.

Lucky
August 9, 2007, 01:33 PM
MD, this waiver, does it include new-manufacture full-autos?

ED21
August 9, 2007, 02:39 PM
Go the following link, then the last page lists Utah certified CFP instructors from Canada. Pretty novel but great opportunity. I had two Canadians in my NRA Basic Pistol Instructor class a couple of years ago in NC. Their names are on this list. Both had Utah permits and thought it pretty unique that another country would trust them more than their own. They were the ones that pointed me in the direction of becoming a Utah instructor. Too bad more states are not as open as Utah. Only real problem with Utah's permit is the wait time right now. They are swamped with new applicants. Both resident and non-resident.

http://bci.utah.gov/CFP/insoutstate.pdf

Euclidean
August 9, 2007, 06:43 PM
This thread has been very interesting. Thank you, you maple tree hugging Canadian posters, now I know what you're all "aboot".:neener::D

owtlaw
August 9, 2007, 11:57 PM
Utah is a very gun friendly state. I should know I live here. Our Gov. is a big time gun nut. So is the Atty. Gerneral. 99% of our state legislatures are gun nuts. I believe we are also the only state that allows concealed or open carry in ALL of our public schools K-college.

Prince Yamato
August 10, 2007, 04:27 AM
Can there be an "*" on the permit that reads:

*All Canadians except Dalton McGinty, Paul Martin, and Jack Layton.

AntiqueCollector
August 10, 2007, 12:21 PM
I don't think a Canadian would have trouble carrying in VT either, without a permit just like VT'ers can right now, provided the gun is legally in this country and all laws are followed. I imagine many open carry states would allow Canadians to also open carry without licenses. But best check that out first of course, I'm not a lawyer...it is ironic that our govt.'s (state and feds) will trust Canadians to carry more than their own government trusts them to. That's sad, actually, I hope permits to carry get easier to get up there for you, though I don't know what the odds are of that happening.

Prince Yamato
August 10, 2007, 02:33 PM
Also, the more good people carrying guns, the better. I don't care if they're from Canada, Mexico, or Japan. If they're good people and carrying for protection here, more power to them.

MD_Willington
August 10, 2007, 02:38 PM
MD, this waiver, does it include new-manufacture full-autos?

Not sure... I wouldn't think so for a temporary visitor.

There is a waiver for diplomats & entourage, LEO's and sanctioned competitors.

A green card holder like me is also exempt, though my state of residence requires me to get a firearms license, and we also cannot get full auto weapons, probably could if I lived next door in Idaho though, as long as I stayed put in Idaho... Complicated stuff.

I imagine many open carry states would allow Canadians to also open carry without licenses.

Nope, WA is open carry, but you still need an AFL... public safety regs make sure of that.

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